What Happened?

[Faith4Bride]

Paul's reference to writing the letter in his own hand is 1 Cor 16:21, in the final chapter in that letter. The introductory notes for that letter in my Study Bible say that it was written in Ephesus where he was residing at the time. Four of Paul's letters (Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians and Philemon) were written from prison. Being in chains in prison and not having writing utensils with him is what probably caused him to dictate those letters to visitors. Perhaps making the point that he had written 1 Corinthians himself was Paul's way of celebrtating the fact that he wasn't in some miserable jail at the time.

SLE

I totally agree! It was not because he had eye problems

 

[jiggyfly]

Cub The church as a whole in North America has migrated from believing the Word to believing doctrines. Fables.

For example; healing...Well gee!! If its Gods will Oscar will be healed...

What does the Word say? By Jesus stripes we WERE healed. Is it Gods will that Oscar be healed? What does the Word say? YES!

Finances... If its Gods will we can get this debt paid...
What does the Word say..? I would that you PROSPER
My God shall supply ALL your need...

Is it Gods will that you Prosper? YES.
Deuteronomy 8:18
But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

The church has blown it by calling Gods Word something other than Gods Word. They prefer to believe lies rather than the truth.

That's blowing it isn't it.

We are a covenant people who do not know our Covenant. We are destroyed because we do not know our covenant, nor do we even understand the concept...

Which covenant El Homer??? There are more than one and you seem to be confused about them..

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Which covenant El Homer??? There are more than one and you seem to be confused about them..

I'm talking about our covenant with the Father. Well to be more accurate its Jesus' covenant with the Father...I'm talking about our New and better covenant I'm not confused

 

[TheDJ]

This is what we call the Word of Faith movement and it is dangerous teaching and unbiblical. If someone tells you that you were not healed because of a lack of faith is just ridiculous.

God does not put it in our hands to call the shots, we are not God or gods, but God himself is sovereign and you do not know the mind of God.

God through the prophet Isaiah 55:8-9 says "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts."

No one knows the thoughts of the Lord, he may not heal someone because He has a reason that you will never think of, but He is sovereign in His decision. Remember there is no time with God and everything to Him is eternal, we do not view it that way so it is hard sometimes for us to understand why things happen the way they do.

Now God will heal some and not others and again that is His decision, and He is doing what is best and we may not see it that way. Of course we are to pray for people who are sick.

Also remember to take the scriptures and read the context. I will give an example of a popular Word of Faith scripture that has been used here.

Isiah 53:4-5 "Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed."

So that means we are all healed when we want right? No it doesn't.

Many claim that Jesus took all our sickness on the Cross so we are healed if we have enough faith. This is not what the scripture means however. This is actually prophecy that takes place in Matthew 8 16-17: When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases."

Isaiah was giving a prophecy about what the Messiah would do when he came to Israel and this was one of His credentials to prove He was the Messiah. He would come and cure the sick of their diseases etc. Matthew was showing this prophecy and that it came true and that Jesus was the true Messiah.

Do I believe in healing and is it biblical? Yes of course! However it is only by God's will and judgment and not by a lack of faith on our part. Why do people get sick and die? Well we must realize that sin is still in this world, however Jesus came and bore our sins on the Cross and if we have faith in Jesus Christ and the Cross we have eternal life and that should be our focus. You may be holding on to this life dearly, but when it is my time to go, it is God's call and not mine.

Let me just say this to you people who believe this doctrine of faith healing or prosperity. Can you all get together and go to Africa and cure the Aids their please? Can you go to every hurting country and by faith cure the sick and poor? Can you go to all the hospitals of the sick and cure them?

God Bless,

DJ

 

[The Robster]

I think that people just dont know.

Almost everything(if not everthing) spoken in the NT can be found in the OT but people read commentaries or hear a preacher preach on it and they do not use any scriptures to prove their point they say well paul makes it a point to say he penned the letter himself because he had a eye problem which was common in that day etc etc etc.. all stuff the bible doesnt say but it makes for a seeming good reason until you actually search the scriptures to truly understand it.

When I read the OT or the NT and i read something that is the same or very similar to something else i have read i go and search both places out and mark them together so they they can be looked at to see if they are connected. But it takes time. If you dont do this in some form it is easy to decide what " makes sence" to you as you read but then you are prob gonna be wrong then when others do the same and all agree it seems like because everyone has the same agrument(like eye problems) that it is the right thing but still no scriptural backing.

+1 Great post. The more time I spend in the OT, the more I love Jesus. Seeing all the shadows and "types" of Jesus in the OT just makes the NT come alive for me. One of the greatest mistakes I made in the past as a Christian, was thinking that everything in the OT was just Old Covenant. It really retarded my spiritual growth but that was my own fault, for not being a better student of the Word. On a related note, some of the worst commentaries I've read on Paul's thorn and Job have been written by people in ministry who just don't know much about healing. And don't get me wrong, I'm not into judging ministries, so I'm not trying to give anyone that impression since I recognize that's dangerous.

Here's a quick example, way back when I was very sick, one of the worst commentaries about Job and Paul's thorn that I read happened to be by hal Lindsey. I have a great deal of respect for Bother Hal. I think he knows a lot about End times events, while I don't agree with all his views, I agree with many. But Brother's Hal commentary on Job and Paul's thorn almost robbed me of my healing. Brother Hal just doesn't know a whole lot about healing and it probably wasn't prudent for him to write a book about those two books. But hey, that's between him and God. The thing is though, his ministry is focused on the "rapture" and end times events. It took me getting hooked up with a healing ministry, courtesy of Brother Mike, to get my believing right so I could receive. And I think its really a shame that we have so many well meaning Christians out there, who truly love the Lord, who don't even realize that they are robbing people of their healing and prosperity, of speaking in tongues, etc. because they are talking about things that they clearly don't have much spiritual discernment on. I know I never want to be one of those Christians that has to explain to Jesus why I said things that robbed people of things that He promised. The simple fact is that we have a lot of Christians out there, not just in ministry, that are undermining the faith of others telling them they can't have what the Bible says is theirs, because they din't have the faith to claim it themselves.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

This is what we call the Word of Faith movement and it is dangerous teaching and unbiblical. If someone tells you that you were not healed because of a lack of faith is just ridiculous.

God does not put it in our hands to call the shots, we are not God or gods, but God himself is sovereign and you do not know the mind of God.

God through the prophet Isaiah 55:8-9 says "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts."

No one knows the thoughts of the Lord, he may not heal someone because He has a reason that you will never think of, but He is sovereign in His decision. Remember there is no time with God and everything to Him is eternal, we do not view it that way so it is hard sometimes for us to understand why things happen the way they do.

Now God will heal some and not others and again that is His decision, and He is doing what is best and we may not see it that way. Of course we are to pray for people who are sick.

Also remember to take the scriptures and read the context. I will give an example of a popular Word of Faith scripture that has been used here.

Isiah 53:4-5 "Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed."

So that means we are all healed when we want right? No it doesn't.

Many claim that Jesus took all our sickness on the Cross so we are healed if we have enough faith. This is not what the scripture means however. This is actually prophecy that takes place in Matthew 8 16-17: When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases."

Isaiah was giving a prophecy about what the Messiah would do when he came to Israel and this was one of His credentials to prove He was the Messiah. He would come and cure the sick of their diseases etc. Matthew was showing this prophecy and that it came true and that Jesus was the true Messiah.

Do I believe in healing and is it biblical? Yes of course! However it is only by God's will and judgment and not by a lack of faith on our part. Why do people get sick and die? Well we must realize that sin is still in this world, however Jesus came and bore our sins on the Cross and if we have faith in Jesus Christ and the Cross we have eternal life and that should be our focus. You may be holding on to this life dearly, but when it is my time to go, it is God's call and not mine.

Let me just say this to you people who believe this doctrine of faith healing or prosperity. Can you all get together and go to Africa and cure the Aids their please? Can you go to every hurting country and by faith cure the sick and poor? Can you go to all the hospitals of the sick and cure them?

God Bless,

DJ

DJ I suggest you go to Genesis 1 and start reading again. This time let the Holy Spirit teach you.
It sounds like the subject is really scaring you.

 

[The Robster]

This is what we call the Word of Faith movement and it is dangerous teaching and unbiblical. If someone tells you that you were not healed because of a lack of faith is just ridiculous.

God does not put it in our hands to call the shots, we are not God or gods, but God himself is sovereign and you do not know the mind of God.

God through the prophet Isaiah 55:8-9 says "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts."

No one knows the thoughts of the Lord, he may not heal someone because He has a reason that you will never think of, but He is sovereign in His decision. Remember there is no time with God and everything to Him is eternal, we do not view it that way so it is hard sometimes for us to understand why things happen the way they do.

Now God will heal some and not others and again that is His decision, and He is doing what is best and we may not see it that way. Of course we are to pray for people who are sick.

Also remember to take the scriptures and read the context. I will give an example of a popular Word of Faith scripture that has been used here.

Isiah 53:4-5 "Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed."

So that means we are all healed when we want right? No it doesn't.

Many claim that Jesus took all our sickness on the Cross so we are healed if we have enough faith. This is not what the scripture means however. This is actually prophecy that takes place in Matthew 8 16-17: When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases."

Isaiah was giving a prophecy about what the Messiah would do when he came to Israel and this was one of His credentials to prove He was the Messiah. He would come and cure the sick of their diseases etc. Matthew was showing this prophecy and that it came true and that Jesus was the true Messiah.

Do I believe in healing and is it biblical? Yes of course! However it is only by God's will and judgment and not by a lack of faith on our part. Why do people get sick and die? Well we must realize that sin is still in this world, however Jesus came and bore our sins on the Cross and if we have faith in Jesus Christ and the Cross we have eternal life and that should be our focus. You may be holding on to this life dearly, but when it is my time to go, it is God's call and not mine.

Let me just say this to you people who believe this doctrine of faith healing or prosperity. Can you all get together and go to Africa and cure the Aids their please? Can you go to every hurting country and by faith cure the sick and poor? Can you go to all the hospitals of the sick and cure them?

God Bless,

DJ

That's funny. You call it the "Word of faith" movement. I call it just plain ole Christians that claim what is theirs and exercise faith the way the early church did. Be careful brother. You shouldn't malign Christians that do what the Word tells them to do. There is nothing dangerous about claiming your healing because you have a right to be healed through the New Covenant. The Prayer of faith is not the only way to be healed. You can also be healed by taking Communion in faith. Jesus purchased healing for everyone at the Cross. Its just unscriptural to tell people that God chooses who to heal, especially when Jesus gave us the gift of the Lord's Supper so we could enjoy His supernatural health and wholeness! Its very dangerous to undermine the perfect work at the Cross because your attack isn't against "Word of faith" people its against Jesus Himself who broke His body and was savagely beaten so we could be healed and be whole. Our Master did SO MUCH more than just forgive sins at the Cross. Praise the name of Jesus!

 

[TheDJ]

That's funny. You call it the "Word of faith" movement. I call it just plain ole Christians that claim what is theirs and exercise faith the way the early church did. Be careful brother. You shouldn't malign Christians that do what the Word tells them to do. There is nothing dangerous about claiming your healing because you have a right to be healed through the New Covenant. The Prayer of faith is not the only way to be healed. You can also be healed by taking Communion in faith. Jesus purchased healing for everyone at the Cross. Its just unscriptural to tell people that God chooses who to heal, especially when Jesus gave us the gift of the Lord's Supper so we could enjoy His supernatural health and wholeness! Its very dangerous to undermine the perfect work at the Cross because your attack isn't against "Word of faith" people its against Jesus Himself who broke His body and was savagely beaten so we could be healed and be whole. Our Master did SO MUCH more than just forgive sins at the Cross. Praise the name of Jesus!

I think you may have misunderstood me and maybe I did not properly say what I meant. I do think it is biblical to be healed of course! We see that throughout the NT. However to tell someone that they are not healed because of a lack of faith is not right.

If that were the case then as I said I would like you to go to cure Aids or all the people in the hospitals, the point is that you can't and the doctrine is not biblical.

What is biblical is that we do pray for healing and if it is in God's will then He will heal. It may not be in His will for a certain reason or purpose, but again we do not know the mind of God.

I agree the Cross is not just about salvation! Every sin was paid on the Cross and we can be delivered from drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc.. by looking to the Cross because Jesus paid for everything on the Cross.

Again I am not saying healing is not biblical, I am saying the Word of Faith movement is not biblical.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

I think you may have misunderstood me and maybe I did not properly say what I meant. I do think it is biblical to be healed of course! We see that throughout the NT. However to tell someone that they are not healed because of a lack of faith is not right.

If that were the case then as I said I would like you to go to cure Aids or all the people in the hospitals, the point is that you can't and the doctrine is not biblical.

What is biblical is that we do pray for healing and if it is in God's will then He will heal. It may not be in His will for a certain reason or purpose, but again we do not know the mind of God.

I agree the Cross is not just about salvation! Every sin was paid on the Cross and we can be delivered from drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc.. by looking to the Cross because Jesus paid for everything on the Cross.

Again I am not saying healing is not biblical, I am saying the Word of Faith movement is not biblical.

DJ What you call the Word of Faith movement simply teaches Christians to live by faith. If its in the Bible it belongs to us. So a Christian is taught to walk by faith. and claim what belongs to them.

The majority of churches in general do not teach faith at all, they teach works. Now thats un-biblical.

 

[The Robster]

I think you may have misunderstood me and maybe I did not properly say what I meant. I do think it is biblical to be healed of course! We see that throughout the NT. However to tell someone that they are not healed because of a lack of faith is not right.

If that were the case then as I said I would like you to go to cure Aids or all the people in the hospitals, the point is that you can't and the doctrine is not biblical.

What is biblical is that we do pray for healing and if it is in God's will then He will heal. It may not be in His will for a certain reason or purpose, but again we do not know the mind of God.

I agree the Cross is not just about salvation! Every sin was paid on the Cross and we can be delivered from drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc.. by looking to the Cross because Jesus paid for everything on the Cross.

Again I am not saying healing is not biblical, I am saying the Word of Faith movement is not biblical.

You do need faith to be healed. I'm not the Healer. Jesus is the Healer. I can't guarantee that every person I lay hands on will be healed because I can't control whether they receive healing by believing. People need to do their part. I mean lets not make this out to be so simple. Some people don't know how to believe. I've been there myself. It certainly is God's will to heal everyone. Jesus took care of healing at the Cross. I mean if you don't believe that Jesus will heal you if you reach out to them, then you really need to start over. Because Jesus never said no to anyone, who asked Him to heal them. Again, to say the "Word of faith" movement is not biblical, is just plain ole foolishness. They read the same Bible you do and believe in the same Jesus you do. They just believe in verses that you don't. I mean lets be honest, you're part of a movement that still thinks that God cats lots up in Heaven to determine who He's going to heal. And you've pretty much made light of Jesus stripes and beating. The Cross purchased your healing, your prosperity, it made you the seed of Abraham and heir according to the Abrahamic blesings, it redeemed you from the Curse of the Law and it secured every blessing spoken of in Deut 28:1-14. Brother you are living WAY below your privilges as a son of God. My Abba tells me in His Book that I have a legal right to healing through the New Covenant. I don't need to know my Abba's mind about healing because He already revealed His thoughts on healing. Jesus took every one of our sicknesses and diseases. And we have the substance, through the Lord's Supper, of what the Israelites leaving Egypt only had a shadow of. Those dudes ate a roasted lamb and all left supernaturally healed the next day and left with silver and hold! We have the real McCoy in the eprfect Passover lamb in Jesus! Praise Jesus our Healer!

 

[TheDJ]

You do need faith to be healed. I'm not the Healer. Jesus is the Healer. I can't guarantee that every person I lay hands on will be healed because I can't control whether they receive healing by believing. People need to do their part. I mean lets not make this out to be so simple. Some people don't know how to believe. I've been there myself. It certainly is God's will to heal everyone. Jesus took care of healing at the Cross. I mean if you don't believe that Jesus will heal you if you reach out to them, then you really need to start over. Because Jesus never said no to anyone, who asked Him to heal them. Again, to say the "Word of faith" movement is not biblical, is just plain ole foolishness. They read the same Bible you do and believe in the same Jesus you do. They just believe in verses that you don't. I mean lets be honest, you're part of a movement that still thinks that God cats lots up in Heaven to determine who He's going to heal. And you've pretty much made light of Jesus stripes and beating. The Cross purchased your healing, your prosperity, it made you the seed of Abraham and heir according to the Abrahamic blesings, it redeemed you from the Curse of the Law and it secured every blessing spoken of in Deut 28:1-14. Brother you are living WAY below your privilges as a son of God. My Abba tells me in His Book that I have a legal right to healing through the New Covenant. I don't need to know my Abba's mind about healing because He already revealed His thoughts on healing. Jesus took every one of our sicknesses and diseases. And we have the substance, through the Lord's Supper, of what the Israelites leaving Egypt only had a shadow of. Those dudes ate a roasted lamb and all left supernaturally healed the next day and left with silver and hold! We have the real McCoy in the eprfect Passover lamb in Jesus! Praise Jesus our Healer!

Yes I agree Jesus is the healer, but that doesn't mean He has to heal everyone does it? Can he have a reason not to heal someone? Sure He can. Let's take a look at some Scripture.

John 9 "As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-26432">2</sup>His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-26433">3</sup>"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life."

Here we can see one man who was born blind and Jesus said that the work of God might be manifest in his life. Now Jesus may not heal someone so that the work of God may be manifest in their life. Yes He did heal him, but it was for a purpose that you can read in the rest of the chapter.

Let's say a person is born who can't walk and they pray for healing. If they don't walk are we to tell them it's because they lack faith? You guys are saying yes that is true.

We are to have faith in God and the finished work of the Cross. Again if we look at the person who has not walked since birth, it is not because of a lack of faith they are not healed, it is because we live in a fallen world where sin still resides. Again God may not heal them so that the work of the Lord may be manifest in them. The problem is you do not know the mind of God and his reasons as I pointed out in Scripture.

Again God is sovereign and will do what He wants for His will and purpose. Sometimes a healing may not take place for His will and purpose.

Romans 9:15-16 "For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy."


You mention it is God's will to heal everyone? No it is not, if that were the case everyone who is a true believer in Christ would be healed and they are not. It is not by a lack of faith, but by the will and work of God and His decision.

You mentioned that I made light of Jesus' beating. I in no way shape or form did that, you only see it that way because I do not believe it is scriptural to say that by having faith we can be healed of anything, anytime we want, and when we want.

We are to have faith in Christ and the Cross. We are to pray to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We are to pray for His will in our life, and if that means not being healed for some purpose, then that is the choice of the Lord. As long as we pray for God's will then that is what matters, not what we think is right or what we want, because we don't have the answers, God does.

 

[The Robster]

Yes I agree Jesus is the healer, but that doesn't mean He has to heal everyone does it? Can he have a reason not to heal someone? Sure He can. Let's take a look at some Scripture.

John 9 "As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. <SUP id=en-NIV-26432 class=versenum>2</SUP>His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" <SUP id=en-NIV-26433 class=versenum>3</SUP>"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life."

Here we can see one man who was born blind and Jesus said that the work of God might be manifest in his life. Now Jesus may not heal someone so that the work of God may be manifest in their life. Yes He did heal him, but it was for a purpose that you can read in the rest of the chapter.

Let's say a person is born who can't walk and they pray for healing. If they don't walk are we to tell them it's because they lack faith? You guys are saying yes that is true.

We are to have faith in God and the finished work of the Cross. Again if we look at the person who has not walked since birth, it is not because of a lack of faith they are not healed, it is because we live in a fallen world where sin still resides. Again God may not heal them so that the work of the Lord may be manifest in them. The problem is you do not know the mind of God and his reasons as I pointed out in Scripture.

Again God is sovereign and will do what He wants for His will and purpose. Sometimes a healing may not take place for His will and purpose.

Romans 9:15-16 "For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy."


You mention it is God's will to heal everyone? No it is not, if that were the case everyone who is a true believer in Christ would be healed and they are not. It is not by a lack of faith, but by the will and work of God and His decision.

You mentioned that I made light of Jesus' beating. I in no way shape or form did that, you only see it that way because I do not believe it is scriptural to say that by having faith we can be healed of anything, anytime we want, and when we want.

We are to have faith in Christ and the Cross. We are to pray to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We are to pray for His will in our life, and if that means not being healed for some purpose, then that is the choice of the Lord. As long as we pray for God's will then that is what matters, not what we think is right or what we want, because we don't have the answers, God does.

Why doesn't Jesus have to heal everyone when He healed everyone who came to him and had faith when He walked this planet? If Jesus is the same, yesterday, today and forever then at what point did He stop healing? I mean Jesus is still saving anyone who comes to Him today and healing was an enormous part of His ministry so why do you feel He stopped healing? Where in scripture are we told that Jesus cut everyone off from healing? Heck He healed everyone at the Cross. Jesus already told us Himself that it was His will to heal us. He never so no to anyone. And He even made it a point to say that sickness was satanic bondage.

Praying to know the will of God for our lives has nothing to do with asking to be healed. Absolutely nothing. God is not making people sick and He doesn't want us to be sick. You'd have to throw out a great deal of scripture to support such a claim. Seems to me that you have a warped view of our Lord. Many Christians do though. If you don't believe that you can ask Jesus to heal you, then honestly why bother praying at all? I mean do you see Jesus that powerless? I mean seriously, Jesus healed NON CHRISTIANS in the Bible before He was crucified!!! And He's not going to heal a Christian, a son of God, the seed of Abraham? he came to AID the seed of Abraham. That's you and me brother. Many Christians believe that Jesus can heal. They just have a difficult time believing that He will heal them. People need to be like that woman with the issue of blood for 12 years. She HEARD about Jesus and reached out and took that healing. People today are HEARING about Jesus but they aren't reaching out for the healing. Its true that every healing doesn't manifest instantaneously but that's no excuse to give up and not believe for it. I've read articles where healings have manifested over a year after asking for it. Some much sooner than that. It is a big mystery why that's the case but we need to do our part. Many are just throwing in the towel. And then go around poisoning and undermining the faith of others telling them that God is going to choose if they will be healed. Rubbish. Jesus was not savagely beaten and did not get scourged as same vain exhibition to show His threshold of pain. BY HIS STRIPES WE WERE HEALED. Our spirit doesn't ned to be healed it just needs to be born again, to become a new creation. Our bodies need the healing since they are sibjected to the aging effects of this world caused by sin.

 

[TheDJ]

Why doesn't Jesus have to heal everyone when He healed everyone who came to him and had faith when He walked this planet? If Jesus is the same, yesterday, today and forever then at what point did He stop healing? I mean Jesus is still saving anyone who comes to Him today and healing was an enormous part of His ministry so why do you feel He stopped healing? Where in scripture are we told that Jesus cut everyone off from healing? Heck He healed everyone at the Cross. Jesus already told us Himself that it was His will to heal us. He never so no to anyone. And He even made it a point to say that sickness was satanic bondage.

Praying to know the will of God for our lives has nothing to do with asking to be healed. Absolutely nothing. God is not making people sick and He doesn't want us to be sick. You'd have to throw out a great deal of scripture to support such a claim. Seems to me that you have a warped view of our Lord. Many Christians do though. If you don't believe that you can ask Jesus to heal you, then honestly why bother praying at all? I mean do you see Jesus that powerless? I mean seriously, Jesus healed NON CHRISTIANS in the Bible before He was crucified!!! And He's not going to heal a Christian, a son of God, the seed of Abraham? he came to AID the seed of Abraham. That's you and me brother. Many Christians believe that Jesus can heal. They just have a difficult time believing that He will heal them. People need to be like that woman with the issue of blood for 12 years. She HEARD about Jesus and reached out and took that healing. People today are HEARING about Jesus but they aren't reaching out for the healing. Its true that every healing doesn't manifest instantaneously but that's no excuse to give up and not believe for it. I've read articles where healings have manifested over a year after asking for it. Some much sooner than that. It is a big mystery why that's the case but we need to do our part. Many are just throwing in the towel. And then go around poisoning and undermining the faith of others telling them that God is going to choose if they will be healed. Rubbish. Jesus was not savagely beaten and did not get scourged as same vain exhibition to show His threshold of pain. BY HIS STRIPES WE WERE HEALED. Our spirit doesn't ned to be healed it just needs to be born again, to become a new creation. Our bodies need the healing since they are sibjected to the aging effects of this world caused by sin.

I honestly think you did not read anything I said, but skipped over it all. I never said that Jesus does not heal and that he cut everyone off from it, not once did I say that.

We need to understand that it is not that we can just say what we want and declare it or believe in something as the Word of Faith movement says we can. I can be sick and pray all day and night and not be healed from that sickness. Now I am not saying that we can't be healed and Jesus will not do it, of course we can!

First we must have a proper relationship with the Lord. Next we must ask according to his will. A true child of God will only desire the things that please the Lord. We also must confess our sins to God and be washed clean by the blood of Jesus.

Jesus is the great physician and he heals, BUT we must understand He will not always do it, it might not be his will, as I mentioned in previous posts, I hope I am making myself clear.

 

[The Robster]

I honestly think you did not read anything I said, but skipped over it all. I never said that Jesus does not heal and that he cut everyone off from it, not once did I say that.

We need to understand that it is not that we can just say what we want and declare it or believe in something as the Word of Faith movement says we can. I can be sick and pray all day and night and not be healed from that sickness. Now I am not saying that we can't be healed and Jesus will not do it, of course we can!

First we must have a proper relationship with the Lord. Next we must ask according to his will. A true child of God will only desire the things that please the Lord. We also must confess our sins to God and be washed clean by the blood of Jesus.

Jesus is the great physician and he heals, BUT we must understand He will not always do it, it might not be his will, as I mentioned in previous posts, I hope I am making myself clear.

I read everything you posted, you just conveniently overlook the most powerful statements that God has ever made about the New Covenant, healing and EVERYTHING Jesus accomplished with His perfect work at the Cross. My arguments and rebuttals are not based on experience or on who did and didn't get healed. I rest my arguments on the Word and stand on the Word. A lot of Christians do not know how to EXERCISE faith. That's something even I had to learn after being a Christian for so many years and not understanding how you EXERCISE faith. The Word says Jesus never changes. If he healed yesterday, He heals today. If you don't believe that, then fine. But that's an opinion not based on scripture. And you better becareful if you are telling people who are sick, that sort of thing. Because I would never want to explain to the Lord why I robbed someone of their healing because I didn't believe the Word. Jesus never turned down a healing request when He walked the earth and healing was put into the New Covenant. God is not some "child abuser" that wants His chidlren suffering from sickness and disease to teach you some mysterious teaching that He will reveal in Heaven. God teaches us with His Word and in church and He hates sickness and disease. We need to reject that garbage.

 

[TheDJ]

I read everything you posted, you just conveniently overlook the most powerful statements that God has ever made about the New Covenant, healing and EVERYTHING Jesus accomplished with His perfect work at the Cross. My arguments and rebuttals are not based on experience or on who did and didn't get healed. I rest my arguments on the Word and stand on the Word. A lot of Christians do not know how to EXERCISE faith. That's something even I had to learn after being a Christian for so many years and not understanding how you EXERCISE faith. The Word says Jesus never changes. If he healed yesterday, He heals today. If you don't believe that, then fine. But that's an opinion not based on scripture. And you better becareful if you are telling people who are sick, that sort of thing. Because I would never want to explain to the Lord why I robbed someone of their healing because I didn't believe the Word.

Again I think you misunderstand the point I am trying to make. Read over what I said and take some time to go over the explanations with the Scriptures I gave.

I obviously am not explaining myself clearly and apologize for that.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

I honestly think you did not read anything I said, but skipped over it all. I never said that Jesus does not heal and that he cut everyone off from it, not once did I say that.

We need to understand that it is not that we can just say what we want and declare it or believe in something as the Word of Faith movement says we can. I can be sick and pray all day and night and not be healed from that sickness. Now I am not saying that we can't be healed and Jesus will not do it, of course we can!

First we must have a proper relationship with the Lord. Next we must ask according to his will. A true child of God will only desire the things that please the Lord. We also must confess our sins to God and be washed clean by the blood of Jesus.

Jesus is the great physician and he heals, BUT we must understand He will not always do it, it might not be his will, as I mentioned in previous posts, I hope I am making myself clear.

I can be sick and pray all day and night and not be healed from that sickness.

James said ..."yet ye have not, because ye ask not. <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30341">3</sup>Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss"...
Where he said this he was taking about folks fighting over selfish things. But the principle applies to having our needs and even wants met. You don't want to ask God "Oh please heal me" Its already done. So? Simply receive healing and command your bod to line up with our Fathers Word.

"First we must have a proper relationship with the Lord."

Did we need a proper relationship with God to receive anything else? Like salvation?
No He paid that price while we were yet sinners. Now that we're not sinners anymore but are saved by the empowering PRESENCE of God healing is ours Take it.

Next we must ask according to his will.
Isa 53:4-5 1Peter 2:24 Psalm 103:3 Of course its Gods will that we be healed!! Did God send Jesus to the cross for nothing?

"Jesus is the great physician and he heals, BUT we must understand He will not always do it, it might not be his will"

DJ That last line is nothing but religious crap. It does NOT line up with the Word in any way.

Keep up your feeding on the Word though man, you're catching on

 

[The Robster]

Again I think you misunderstand the point I am trying to make. Read over what I said and take some time to go over the explanations with the Scriptures I gave.

I obviously am not explaining myself clearly and apologize for that.

Jesus is the great physician and he heals, BUT we must understand He will not always do it, it might not be his will, as I mentioned in previous posts, I hope I am making myself clear.

I certainly have not misunderstood your point. Look at what you typed above. Jesus will not say no to a healing request. Receiving it though can be a challenge for some but what you stated about the Lord is not scripturally supported. Show me SCRIPTURES where Jesus denied someone healing or where He stated that I need to think about it or see if its MY WILL to do it? Believing for healing is not easy but simply because someone doesn't receive their healing it doesn't mean God's Word is false on the matter. Jesus came to give us a more abundant life. How is sickness and disease a more abundant life when it robs you from your pocket book, it robs you of your joy and robs you of your ability to fully enjoy life? Don't worry too much about sin. If you have received Christ, every sin past, present and future is forgiven and forgotten. And even if you are sick and have sin in your life, its nothing some anoinitng oil and the prayer faith can't handle.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Healing

1. Matthew 12:15
   But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
   
   
2. Luke 6:19
   And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed them all.

 

[jiggyfly]

I think you may have misunderstood me and maybe I did not properly say what I meant. I do think it is biblical to be healed of course! We see that throughout the NT. However to tell someone that they are not healed because of a lack of faith is not right.

If that were the case then as I said I would like you to go to cure Aids or all the people in the hospitals, the point is that you can't and the doctrine is not biblical.

What is biblical is that we do pray for healing and if it is in God's will then He will heal. It may not be in His will for a certain reason or purpose, but again we do not know the mind of God.

I agree the Cross is not just about salvation! Every sin was paid on the Cross and we can be delivered from drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc.. by looking to the Cross because Jesus paid for everything on the Cross.

Again I am not saying healing is not biblical, I am saying the Word of Faith movement is not biblical.

I agree with you DJ the "word of faith" teachings are mostly about "self" and is often referred to as the "gospel of self" or the "self help gospel".
The "word of faith" supporters here are a minority so dont be discouraged.

 

[jiggyfly]

I'm talking about our covenant with the Father. Well to be more accurate its Jesus' covenant with the Father...I'm talking about our New and better covenant I'm not confused

So why do you mix in scriptures that are clearly part of the "old covenant" with Israel, are you Jewish?