Signs of end

[jari]

Hi
I was wondering is there some clear signs before the day of the Lord comes? Jesus spoke about great tribulation and said we will see when the time is near. I recon the tribulation hasnt started yet. And there's also another thing, A son of perdition is suposed to be revealed before the day of the Lord comes, whom God will destroy then.


2Th 2:2-4 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. (3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.



2Th 2:6-9 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. (7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: (9) Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

So this some one is supposed to be revealed and make wonders and appear as "god" . But when Lord comes He will destroy him.

So I'm sure he has not come yet..

And what is that is still in the way? 2Th 2:7

It could be that this the beast of revelations whom people will worship.

In any case I wonder why Jesus told us to watch exactly? (Luk 21:34-36, Luk 12:40 ) He will come like a thief in the night but there will be also these things by which we know the day of the Lord is not immedient. Or have I understood this correctly?


Luk 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Luk 21:29-32 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; (30) When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. (31) So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. (32) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Luk 21:34-36 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. (35) For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. (36) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


Thanks God bless

 

[Davy]

Hi Jari:

As regards the final signs leading up to Christ's coming, Paul made a interesting prophecy in his first letter to the Thessalonians: "Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape." (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3, ESV) Notice, the world of non believers will be saying, "There is peace and security." Which is kind of ironic, because over the past few years, world leaders have often used these words, "peace and security!" I do not believe that is a coincidence, so perhaps Jesus' coming is very close indeed.

As regards the man of lawlessness: Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4: (NIV) "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." And in verse 8 he wrote: (NIV) "And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming."

It is vital that we identify this man of lawlessness. Why? Because he is intent on undermining our good standing with God and our hope of eternal life. How? By getting us to abandon the truth and to believe falsehoods in its place, thus diverting us from worshiping God. So who is this man of lawlessness? 2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10, (NIV) gives us a clue: "The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved." Was Paul speaking of a single individual? NO! for he states that this "man" was evident in Paul's day and would continue in existence until God destroyed him. 2 Thessalonians 2:7, says: (NIV) "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work." Thus, he has existed for many centuries. Obviously, no literal man has lived that long. So the expression "Man of lawlessness" must represent a type of people.

So what type of people do you know who: Display all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and they are associated with Satan! (2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10) Well, just look at who Jesus said was performing counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and they are associated with Satan! In John 8:44, (NIV) Jesus said: "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire." Yes!!! it was the bad religious leaders of his day. Remember what Jesus said in Matthew 7:22, 23: "Many will say to me on that day, (The time of the end) 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" The man of lawlessness is a type or group of bad religious leaders who mislead many with powerful works, but only for their own selfish ends! If you have ever watched Christan TV, you will see any number of so called Christian preachers that could easily fall under the description of this man of lawlessness.

So these two prophesies that point to the time of the end and Jesus' second coming are already being fulfilled!!!

 

[brakelite]

The Restrainer and the Restrained

Hi Jari. I wrote on this a while back...you can read my thoughts here:http://www.talkjesus.com/evidence-bible-prophecy/38601-were-they-right-2.html#post184283

 

[farout]

Here are the signs...we are to be ready, and when we think Jesus can return any time, the Bible says ...not yet. Being prepared and Jesus said...go. No one knows except the Father when Jesus will come. Not too much can be said beyond this and be 100% sure.


Are you ready?

 

[jari]

As regards the man of lawlessness: Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4: (NIV) "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." And in verse 8 he wrote: (NIV) "And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming."

It is vital that we identify this man of lawlessness. Why? Because he is intent on undermining our good standing with God and our hope of eternal life. How? By getting us to abandon the truth and to believe falsehoods in its place, thus diverting us from worshiping God. So who is this man of lawlessness? 2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10, (NIV) gives us a clue: "The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved." Was Paul speaking of a single individual? NO! for he states that this "man" was evident in Paul's day and would continue in existence until God destroyed him. 2 Thessalonians 2:7, says: (NIV) "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work." Thus, he has existed for many centuries. Obviously, no literal man has lived that long. So the expression "Man of lawlessness" must represent a type of people.


So these two prophesies that point to the time of the end and Jesus' second coming are already being fulfilled!!!

Thanks Davy. Those are interesting thoughts, still i'm quite unsure if that's the wholes story or correct one...

I dont think the scripture is clearly saying that the Son of perdition is already on earth. Perhaps he is one of satans angels that has not manifested him self yet because there something preventing 2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Also he will make him self shown as god.


(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

I have to think that its single thing like the beast of revelation that was worshipped but the same power of lawlesness is already at work but the Son perdition him self hasnt been able to come yet.

 

[jari]

Hi Jari. I wrote on this a while back...you can read my thoughts here:http://www.talkjesus.com/evidence-bible-prophecy/38601-were-they-right-2.html#post184283

The RCC could be the son of perdition. it fits very well in picture because they worship the pope and saints and dont teach that Jesus saves.

thx

 

[jari]

Here are the signs...we are to be ready, and when we think Jesus can return any time, the Bible says ...not yet. Being prepared and Jesus said...go. No one knows except the Father when Jesus will come. Not too much can be said beyond this and be 100% sure.

the signs we have now are not signs of end but signs end coming near. if i understood correctly.

I agree but maybe we'll find some new info on this bible study.

 

[elisha]

The RCC could be the son of perdition. it fits very well in picture because they worship the pope and saints and dont teach that Jesus saves.

thx

The man of sin could be modern Edomites.Esau/Edom
Modern Edomites Esau/Edom are friendly with the RCC,yet if Edomites did not exist,Obadiah 1:18 could not be fulfilled.
These modern Edomites control the media and can portray people how they want.
They control the sex slavery trade,pornography,they promote the homosexual rights and promote drugs as well as anti-Christianity.
These are the enemies of Jesus and Christianity.
These are the people who are Pharisees in their religion,and anti-christs collectively as a people.

 

[jari]

The man of sin could be modern Edomites.Esau/Edom
Modern Edomites Esau/Edom are friendly with the RCC,yet if Edomites did not exist,Obadiah 1:18 could not be fulfilled.
These modern Edomites control the media and can portray people how they want.
They control the sex slavery trade,pornography,they promote the homosexual rights and promote drugs as well as anti-Christianity.
These are the enemies of Jesus and Christianity.
These are the people who are Pharisees in their religion,and anti-christs collectively as a people.

Hi Elisha

but they dont do miracles and wonders and show them self being god.

maybe their part of the pack however, anti-christ.

God bless

 

[elisha]

Hi Elisha

but they dont do miracles and wonders and show them self being god.

maybe their part of the pack however, anti-christ.

God bless

Esau/Edomites are antichrists in plural(1 John 2:18)

I think do show themselves as God.
They are respected with a godly respect as well as a fear by many brainwashed Christians,yet they do not care for you either way.
You ever wonder why some topics on theology are so sensitive?

2 Thessalonians 2:4:Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Connect the dots..........how can they do all the things in 2 Thessalonians 2:4?

1 Corinthians 3:16:Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1 Corinthians 3:17:If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1 Corinthians 2:16:For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

They control the media,the news,the governments-They can make you think and do what they want!

What you watch or read....or listen to....

 

[jari]

Esau/Edomites are antichrists in plural(1 John 2:18)

I think do show themselves as God.
They are respected with a godly respect as well as a fear by many brainwashed Christians,yet they do not care for you either way.
You ever wonder why some topics on theology are so sensitive?

2 Thessalonians 2:4:Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Connect the dots..........how can they do all the things in 2 Thessalonians 2:4?

1 Corinthians 3:16:Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1 Corinthians 3:17:If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1 Corinthians 2:16:For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

They control the media,the news,the governments-They can make you think and do what they want!

What you watch or read....or listen to....

i dont personally connect the dots like this.. it sounds more of literal son of perdition than group. But many spirit of anti christ are already in the world. John 1 speaks about this.
and who is beast then? and false prophet? all people will worship him.
except we christians.

 

[elisha]

i dont personally connect the dots like this.. it sounds more of literal son of perdition than group. But many spirit of anti christ are already in the world. John 1 speaks about this.
and who is beast then? and false prophet? all people will worship him.
except we christians.

Edomites are literal people,destined for destruction.(Obadiah 1:18)
How do you know a Christian will not worship the beast or the false prophet?
Would you be able to tell?

Worship in Websters 1828 Dictionary carries the meaning of....

2. To respect; to honor; to treat with civil reverence.

I don't think you necessarily need to bow down and worship the beast or false prophet,it can simply be,respect.

As for antichrist,that could be a literal people.
What people do you know,on earth,now,collectively in their doctrines deny Jesus and reject Christianity?(1 John 2:18-1 John 2:22-1 John 4:3-2 John 1:7)

Antichrist in Strong's Greek is....

500. antichristos an-tee'-khris-tos from 473 and 5547; an opponent of the Messiah:--antichrist.

 

[jari]

Edomites are literal people,destined for destruction.(Obadiah 1:18)

but who isnt?

How do you know a Christian will not worship the beast or the false prophet?
Would you be able to tell?

1 John 2:18
King James Version (KJV)
18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


we wont..

I don't think you necessarily need to bow down and worship the beast or false prophet,it can simply be,respect.

people who dont take mark of the beast are killed... so seems like we will certainly know when the time of the beast comes.

As for antichrist,that could be a literal people.
What people do you know,on earth,now,collectively in their doctrines deny Jesus and reject Christianity?(1 John 2:18-1 John 2:22-1 John 4:3-2 John 1:7)

Antichrist in Strong's Greek is....

500. antichristos an-tee'-khris-tos from 473 and 5547; an opponent of the Messiah:--antichrist.

absolutely thats what the spirit of anti christ does and that spirit is in many people already who deny christ as messiah....
and i suppose they obbose him as well which is why its serious. the antichrists want to divert people from Jesus.and from who He truly is, our savior.

 

[elisha]

but who isnt?



1 John 2:18
King James Version (KJV)
18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


we wont..



people who dont take mark of the beast are killed... so seems like we will certainly know when the time of the beast comes.



absolutely thats what the spirit of anti christ does and that spirit is in many people already who deny christ as messiah....
and i suppose they obbose him as well which is why its serious. the antichrists want to divert people from Jesus.and from who He truly is, our savior.

Read Obadiah 1:18 Esau/Edom is destined for destruction,what do you mean ''but who isnt?''?

Obadiah 1:18:And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

What do you say the ''mark of the beast'' is ???????

Which people collectively connect with the description of antichrist?
Do you know which people they are,as there are a group of people who do it collectively as a people in their teachings?


''who deny christ as messiah'' - Who are those people?
I think you may have an idea but may be reluctant to post it....due to it been sensitive....

If I ask the question this way - Which ''people'' do not believe in Jesus,would that make it easier?

....or more sensitive...????

 

[jari]

Read Obadiah 1:18 Esau/Edom is destined for destruction,what do you mean ''but who isnt?''?

Obadiah 1:18:And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

What do you say the ''mark of the beast'' is ???????

Which people collectively connect with the description of antichrist?
Do you know which people they are,as there are a group of people who do it collectively as a people in their teachings?


''who deny christ as messiah'' - Who are those people?
I think you may have an idea but may be reluctant to post it....due to it been sensitive....

If I ask the question this way - Which ''people'' do not believe in Jesus,would that make it easier?

....or more sensitive...????

I mean God will judge all nations in the end and those who follow the beast. Edom is not only one then whom God will judge. But all those follow the beast which includes people around the world... from other religions as well and atheist and so forth.

Only christians believe in Jesus. Thats born again christians because to some people Jesus isnt savior.

 

[elisha]

I mean God will judge all nations in the end and those who follow the beast. Edom is not only one then whom God will judge. But all those follow the beast which includes people around the world... from other religions as well and atheist and so forth.

Only christians believe in Jesus. Thats born again christians because to some people Jesus isnt savior.

Revelation 22:15:For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

...But Esau/Edom is one of the only that is ''destined'' for destruction.(Obadiah 1:18)
...Can you spot them?(today)

Atheists deny the existence of God,they are not antichrist,as they do not believe in God.

Only Christians believe in Jesus,but who does not?
Which ''people'' collectively reject Jesus and Christianity?
I think you know the answer but are hesitant to post......


The mark of the beast ( a little info)

"The mark of the beast" is the topic of
discussion in many circles today.
Unfortunately, it is usually misunderstood
by both layman and clergy.
Some think that Revelation 13:15-18
is a description of a MAN. who will
become a world dictator. Others prefer an
up-dated version of that theory; which
suggests that “the beast” will be a computer
system, with one main center (or
brain), which will compile information on
Christians in order to control them. These
are still traditional type predictions, cast
from the same mold as those which have
proven to be insufficient thus far.
The fact is that many dictators have
arisen, many empires have held sway over
the world; and for some time now we have
been experiencing the invasion of our privacy
and alienation from our lawful
rights, because of those who misuse computer
technology which has been extant
for years.
It makes one wonder what the
"preachers" are expecting. They are still
looking for a future “beast” while ignoring
the historical creature, who is now tightening
its strangle-hold on the throat of

Christendom. The creature described in
these verses cannot be fulfilled by any one
particular person; neither can its influence
upon people be explained or fulfilled
by a simple mark, or tatoo on one's skin.
Many have tried to over-simplify this
scripture by telling us that what we
should fear is a visible brand on our skin.
Meanwhile, the real beast has been busy
brainwashing, and manipulating our people
while, the preachers look for a tatoo.
Verse 18 tells us that the number of his
name, "666', can be understood only by
someone with "wisdom." It is spiritually
discerned; not physically. After all, it doesn't
take any wisdom to detect a literal
brand, or tatoo on someone. Anyone with
one good eye could detect it, with or without
wisdom.
Perhaps, those who prefer the popular
view of a physical mark would also have
the true followers of Christ marked by a
brand in the forehead spelling the
Father's name, according to Revelation
14:1.
Speculation on this "mark" is rampant
today. Every bookstand has one, two, or
more books, warning Christians against a
physical mark, and giving various
descriptions of how it will appear. The reason
for such broad, spectacular speculation
seems to involve two elements:
1) Many self-appointed prophets have
predicted certain things concerning this

prophecy. They and their supporters are
frantically turning over every rock in
quest of something that will fit; and, thus,
fulfill THEIR rendition of that prophecy.
They desperately need to find it in just the
way that they predicted. Otherwise they
risk losing credibility, and resulting damage
to their livelihood (flock-fleecing). All
is at stake for them!
2) Since the majority of the people in
Christendom have been innoculated with
this unfortunate doctrine, and subsequently-
learned to FEAR some physical
mark, our enemies are now using that
fear to their own advantage. The internationalists
are actually using variations of
the number "666" in order to spite and
intimidate Christians.. They know what
scares most Christians, so they use it for
that purpose. The fact is that we
Christians have been fooled because of the
lack of accurate Biblical teaching.
This BEAST power has been extant for
many years, already. God is calling us to
"come out of her!" God's plagues are
falling upon Babylon, and we see her suffering
greatly in both areas of power:
economy and religion. We have known for
some time that regardless of any mark
upon your physical body, one cannot live
in our society today and be exempt from
the influence of this beast power.
Therefore, THE "BEAST" HAS
POWER OVER PEOPLE THROUGH
DECEPTION AND MIND CONTROL,
RATHER THAN BY BRANDING US AS
CATTLE. The reference to the mark being
"in the right hand, or in the forehead," as
the Bible relates, simply means WHAT
WE DO (right hand), and WHAT WE
BELIEVE (forehead). If we have been
deceived by "the beast," it will be evidenced
by our beliefs, and our actions.
Thus are we marked!
This "beast" is made up of COMPONENTS

COMPONENTS
which are listed in Revelation
13:1-3, and 17:7-14. IT IS A COMPLEX
CREATURE! It is not one man; it is not
one man's government; it is not one
church! According to the scripture it is
"mountains" (nations), "kings," "kingdoms,"
etc. And it is controled (ridden) by
a woman (Babylon). This picture presents
a composite "beast," made up of many
anti-Christ governments, rulers, kings,
and kingdoms; which we can trace down
through history, as they have had their
turn at world power under the guidance of
that ancient Queen of Paganism....
.Babylon.
The portrayed contrast is MAN'S
GOVERNMENT against GOD'S GOVERNMENT.
Man's government follows
Babylonian rules, as shown by the vision
of kingdoms controled by the harlot. God's
government: which follows God's rules, is
depicted in chapter 19:1-10. These two
systems are opposed to each other; man' s
way . . . and God's way.
These world systems, or developements
of state (called a "beast" in the
Bible) have always been comprised of
many people; some of which have "the
mark," while some don't. Those having
"the mark" are the ones who support (worship)
the ungodly systems. They are
either wicked, and/or decieved people who
worship SELF instead of JESUS, and
thus, are led to support the, beast system.
Today, we see this, in part, as the impetus
behind the religion of HUMANISM, which
is, strangely enough, commensurate to
the state religion behind COMMUNISM.
The common denominator behind all
paganisms is THE WORSHIP OF SELF,
as explained in Romans 1:23-25. The
humber, "666" designates DEIFIED
SELF. Six is considered to be the number
of man (self); three is considered to be the
number of deity; THREE SIXES (666) IS

THE NUMBER OF DEIFIED SELF! That
describes Humanism as it has been
taught for centuries, under various titles:
in Egypt, in Babylon, in the Talmud (the
Jewish book of law), in Communism and
in various other Eastern mystic religion's,
most of which are now being propagated
in the western world, and America.
This same beast forced the "Woman"
(Israel) to flee across the Atlantic, from
Europe, some three centuries ago, as illustrated-
symbolically in Revelation 12.
Then as she gave birth to the new nation
of America (called “the man child” in verses
5 and 13), she found protection and
rest on these shores (called "the wilderness"),
away from the serpent (beast).
Thus, our forefathers found sanctuary
here in Nqrth America, away from the
beast's religious and financial oppression.

Israel was protected from this beast for
several years after coming to this new
country in the 1600's, but it (the beast)
was finally successful in getting a foothold
here, and is now attempting to put us
unto complete subjection.
This beast is NOT A MAN; it is a system,
or scheme devised by man. It is man
attempting to usurp the throne of God. It
is SELF trying to be God, manifested
through SELFISH, pagan ideology and
government. It is not one man, nor is it
one man's government! It is simply the
state of affairs, and type of society with
which we end up when we follow man
instead of Israel's God.

 

[brakelite]

Esau/Edomites are antichrists in plural(1 John 2:18)

I think do show themselves as God.
They are respected with a godly respect as well as a fear by many brainwashed Christians,yet they do not care for you either way.
You ever wonder why some topics on theology are so sensitive?

2 Thessalonians 2:4:Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Connect the dots..........how can they do all the things in 2 Thessalonians 2:4?

1 Corinthians 3:16:Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1 Corinthians 3:17:If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1 Corinthians 2:16:For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

They control the media,the news,the governments-They can make you think and do what they want!

What you watch or read....or listen to....

Hi Elisha. I have for a long time believed that the RCC is the Antichrist, and for many reasons. The temple I have thought was (and is) the church. The temple spoken of in 2 Thess. I have believed referred to the Christian church (in a generic sense) but have never seen before what you have just suggested. I still hold to my view, but that the RCC also holds in chains the thoughts or minds of its members would be a very appropriate double application of the meaning of the word temple. Interesting. Thank you for that.

 

[elisha]

Hi Elisha. I have for a long time believed that the RCC is the Antichrist, and for many reasons. The temple I have thought was (and is) the church. The temple spoken of in 2 Thess. I have believed referred to the Christian church (in a generic sense) but have never seen before what you have just suggested. I still hold to my view, but that the RCC also holds in chains the thoughts or minds of its members would be a very appropriate double application of the meaning of the word temple. Interesting. Thank you for that.

Antichrist is used in the plural sense not JUST in the singular.

1 John 2:18:Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Antichrist is many people,not Just one.

The ''Temple'' in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is us,Christian believers.

1 Corinthians 3:16:Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

The RCC are friends with the Edomites(or liked by them),the enemies of Christianity,who promote pornography,drugs,homosexuality,anti-Christianity etc etc

From what I gather the RCC would lean more towards been a part of babylon, not '' MYSTERY, BABYLON '' but a part of Babylon.

 

[brakelite]

Who or what is Antichrist?

I have copied this from a previous post:
Before we look at the antichrist, I want to look at the real Christ. Who is He? Let us go to the scriptures to find out what and Who He claimed to be.

Matthew 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

The temple, the priesthood, and the religious system of the Jewish nation go hand in hand. It was the mainstay and focal point of the life of Israel. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater. Greater even than the very High priest who no doubt would take great interest in hearing a report of these words. Greater even than the very law of God enshrined within. (Or at least it used to be). Only one person can be greater than any law of God, and that is the lawgiver.

Matthew 12:38 ¶ Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Jonah was the most powerful and successful of all OT prophets. In all 40 odd chapters of Jeremiah, there is no record of anyone at anytime taking the slightest bit of notice of anything Jeremiah said. Yet Jonah, on the strength of just one or two sermons, converted an entire city of the children of Ishmael totalling maybe 60,000 people. Nineveh. By any standards, that has got to be recorded as a very successful evangelistic campaign. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater than Jonah.

42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.


Solomon was the wisest and wealthiest and most successful of any ruler of the ancient world. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater even than Solomon.

In the three startling claims as shown above, we have before us the threefold ministry of Jesus. Priest, prophet, and King.


It has been said, and I think wisely, that the Bible must be understood grammatically before it can be understood theologically. Anti- as in antichrist, according to Strong's concordance, and like other words having the prefix 'anti', means at it's most basic form "in the room of", "instead of", or "in the place of", and it is by placing itself as a substitute that it in essence opposes.
In other words, 'antichrist' stands as a substitute. We all know that Satan works by deception. Yet many would claim the 'antichrist' will be one who will charge in on a black horse guns blazing with fury and hatred directed at all things Christian and opposing with great force the church. Pray tell me, how will the world be deceived by such a tactic as this?
In 2 Thess. 2:1 we are told that there was to be a falling away first, which will reveal the antichrist, or as Paul describes him, the man of sin or son of perdition. Now falling away in this instance is a falling into apostasy; divorce.
Any divorce necessitates a prior favourable relationship. Thus the falling away spoken of here can refer only to the church. So there was to be a falling away, or a time when the church would apostatise from truth, and that falling away would develop or reveal the Antichrist.

The only other example of a 'son of perdition' is Judas Iscariot. Did Judas openly and with force oppose Christ? Did he attack His teachings and disagree with Jesus claims to divinity? Did he argue and debate everything Jesus stood for and seek the destruction of His followers? No. Not by any means. Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss. He betrayed Him with an act of apparent love, fellowship, and friendship. He undermined and betrayed Jesus at the same time as claiming Him to be his friend!! This squares perfectly with the meaning of antichrist. He is not an opposer, but a subtle imposter. A counterfeit. An imposter of Jesus Christ. A false copy, or forgery of the true.
Antichrist is therefore a person or power who impersonates the offices of Priesthood, the Prophet or spokesmanship, and the Kingly rule of Christ. The office that ministers for God, speaks for God, and rules for God.
Satan has many counterfeits. Now counterfeits are almost identical to the true. You do not get counterfeit 99$ notes. You get counterfeit 100$ notes. And unless you get trained and disciplined to know intimately the true 100$ note, you will not recognise the false. It has been estimated that every person in America who has regularly handled 100$ notes, has had pass through their hands a counterfeit at least 4 times a year! And not known it!!!! Unless you are intimately acquainted with the true Jesus, how will you recognise the counterfeit?
So how does Antichrist counterfeit the threefold ministry of the true Christ, as Priest, Prophet and King? Is there an entity in the world today who claims to do just this? Is there one like Judas who is betraying the Master with a kiss, all the while claiming to be a friend? Is there in the world today a religious system or religious ruler who claims to be the earthly representative of Christ as His priest, claiming to be a mediator between God and man? Claiming to forgive sin even?
Does this entity also claim the prerogatives of a prophet? Does it claim to speak for God in spiritual matters? Does it claim to stand as Gods spokesman on earth and claim that only through it's authority can salvation be found?
And finally, does this entity also claim to be a king? Does it claim authority as a secular power? Does it exercise authority and power within the auspices of a church/state relationship? And did this entity result from a falling away from the truth?

I think you all know the answer is yes.There is an entity in the world today who claims all the above Godly prerogatives which belong only to Jesus Christ. Priest, prophet and king.This entity has set itself up as counterfeit and thus can be affirmatively identified as the antichrist, the impostor and impersonator of the true. And this entity can be found in the Roman Catholic church system

 

[elisha]

I have copied this from a previous post:
Before we look at the antichrist, I want to look at the real Christ. Who is He? Let us go to the scriptures to find out what and Who He claimed to be.

Matthew 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

The temple, the priesthood, and the religious system of the Jewish nation go hand in hand. It was the mainstay and focal point of the life of Israel. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater. Greater even than the very High priest who no doubt would take great interest in hearing a report of these words. Greater even than the very law of God enshrined within. (Or at least it used to be). Only one person can be greater than any law of God, and that is the lawgiver.

Matthew 12:38 ¶ Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Jonah was the most powerful and successful of all OT prophets. In all 40 odd chapters of Jeremiah, there is no record of anyone at anytime taking the slightest bit of notice of anything Jeremiah said. Yet Jonah, on the strength of just one or two sermons, converted an entire city of the children of Ishmael totalling maybe 60,000 people. Nineveh. By any standards, that has got to be recorded as a very successful evangelistic campaign. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater than Jonah.

42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.


Solomon was the wisest and wealthiest and most successful of any ruler of the ancient world. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater even than Solomon.

In the three startling claims as shown above, we have before us the threefold ministry of Jesus. Priest, prophet, and King.


It has been said, and I think wisely, that the Bible must be understood grammatically before it can be understood theologically. Anti- as in antichrist, according to Strong's concordance, and like other words having the prefix 'anti', means at it's most basic form "in the room of", "instead of", or "in the place of", and it is by placing itself as a substitute that it in essence opposes.
In other words, 'antichrist' stands as a substitute. We all know that Satan works by deception. Yet many would claim the 'antichrist' will be one who will charge in on a black horse guns blazing with fury and hatred directed at all things Christian and opposing with great force the church. Pray tell me, how will the world be deceived by such a tactic as this?
In 2 Thess. 2:1 we are told that there was to be a falling away first, which will reveal the antichrist, or as Paul describes him, the man of sin or son of perdition. Now falling away in this instance is a falling into apostasy; divorce.
Any divorce necessitates a prior favourable relationship. Thus the falling away spoken of here can refer only to the church. So there was to be a falling away, or a time when the church would apostatise from truth, and that falling away would develop or reveal the Antichrist.

The only other example of a 'son of perdition' is Judas Iscariot. Did Judas openly and with force oppose Christ? Did he attack His teachings and disagree with Jesus claims to divinity? Did he argue and debate everything Jesus stood for and seek the destruction of His followers? No. Not by any means. Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss. He betrayed Him with an act of apparent love, fellowship, and friendship. He undermined and betrayed Jesus at the same time as claiming Him to be his friend!! This squares perfectly with the meaning of antichrist. He is not an opposer, but a subtle imposter. A counterfeit. An imposter of Jesus Christ. A false copy, or forgery of the true.
Antichrist is therefore a person or power who impersonates the offices of Priesthood, the Prophet or spokesmanship, and the Kingly rule of Christ. The office that ministers for God, speaks for God, and rules for God.
Satan has many counterfeits. Now counterfeits are almost identical to the true. You do not get counterfeit 99$ notes. You get counterfeit 100$ notes. And unless you get trained and disciplined to know intimately the true 100$ note, you will not recognise the false. It has been estimated that every person in America who has regularly handled 100$ notes, has had pass through their hands a counterfeit at least 4 times a year! And not known it!!!! Unless you are intimately acquainted with the true Jesus, how will you recognise the counterfeit?
So how does Antichrist counterfeit the threefold ministry of the true Christ, as Priest, Prophet and King? Is there an entity in the world today who claims to do just this? Is there one like Judas who is betraying the Master with a kiss, all the while claiming to be a friend? Is there in the world today a religious system or religious ruler who claims to be the earthly representative of Christ as His priest, claiming to be a mediator between God and man? Claiming to forgive sin even?
Does this entity also claim the prerogatives of a prophet? Does it claim to speak for God in spiritual matters? Does it claim to stand as Gods spokesman on earth and claim that only through it's authority can salvation be found?
And finally, does this entity also claim to be a king? Does it claim authority as a secular power? Does it exercise authority and power within the auspices of a church/state relationship? And did this entity result from a falling away from the truth?

I think you all know the answer is yes.There is an entity in the world today who claims all the above Godly prerogatives which belong only to Jesus Christ. Priest, prophet and king.This entity has set itself up as counterfeit and thus can be affirmatively identified as the antichrist, the impostor and impersonator of the true. And this entity can be found in the Roman Catholic church system

iscariot in Strong's Greek is...

2469. Iskariotes is-kar-ee-o'-tace of Hebrew origin (probably 377 and 7149); inhabitant of Kerioth; Iscariotes (i.e. Keriothite), an epithet of Judas the traitor:--Iscariot.

Antichrist in Strong's Greek is defined as...

500. antichristos an-tee'-khris-tos from 473 and 5547; an opponent of the Messiah:--antichrist.

An ''entity'' in the world today is simply ''world ruling powers'',you can't limit it down to the RCC,the RCC is Just a part of Babylon.
Communism is one of those entities and IS antichristian!
The money system is another part of world ruling powers and so on and so forth,I do not think it is only limited to the RCC,I think they are only a part of it.

Here is a little info from a Q and A...

Who is the Antichrist?

The term" antichrist" appears in only
four verses of the New Testament. All four
yerses are in first and second John:
1 John.2:18. "Little children, it is the
last time; and as ye have heard that
antichrist shall come, even now are there
many antichrists; whereby we know that
it is the last time."
1 John 2:22. "Who is a liar, but he that
denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is
antichrist that denieth the Father and the
Son."
1 John 4:3. "And every spirit that confesseth
not that Jesus Christ is come in
the flesh, is not of God; and this is that
spirit of antichrist. . ."
2 John 7. "For many deceivers are
entered into the world, who confess not
that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
This is a deceiver and an antichrist."
It is obvious from reading these passages,
that John had no conception of
some great individual, at the end of the
age, rising up to a position of great power
and all the world worshipping him. His
concept, is clearly that there were many
antichrists aready in the world, and that
whoever does not confess that Jesus
Christ came in the flesh is antichrist.

The term "antichrist" comes from two
Greek words, anti ("instead of, in place of,
in the room of") and Christos ("Christ, the
anointed"). Thus, the term "antichrist" literally
refers to someone who stands in the
place of Christ, either as a Vice-Christ or
as a usurper of Christ's rightful position.
John obviously-treats the antichrists
as people who stand in the place of Christ
as usurpers. They deny that Jesus is the
Christ, because they, themselves, have
become Christ. They, also, deny that Jesus
Christ really came in the flesh, and here
one must know a little history to understand
the accusation which John levels at
these people.
In John's day a sect had arisen called
Gnosticism. The Gnostics (from gnosis,
"knowledge") attempted to combine the
"knowledge" of all the mystery religions of
Babylon, Egypt, and Greece with
Christianity. This religion adopted the
dualism of the Greeks (i.e., matter is evil,
and spirit is good).
In applying Greek dualism to
Christianity, they came up with a doctrine
called Docetism. This doctrine stated that
the "Christ image" (spiritual, immortal,
and good) inhabited a fleshly body (material,
mortal, and evil) called "Jesus." In
making the distinction between Jesus and
the Christ image, they denied that Jesus
was the Christ, teaching instead that
"Christ" merely-inhabited the body of
Jesus.
The result was that they denied that
Christ died for our sins. Rather, only
Jesus BODY died on the Cross. Christ
Himself did not really die, they said (contrary
to Romans 8:34). Thus, these
docetic Gnostics undermined the Cross
and the basis of justification.

John had these heretics in mind when
he wrote in John 1:14, "And the Word
was made flesh." The Word did not merely
inhabit a flesh body; it was literally
made flesh.
The "antichrist" banner was carried by
different people and groups all through
the middle ages. Today, we have witnessed
a revival of the doctrines of Mystery
Babylon in various guises. In modern
occult circles it is taught that man can
become Christ through various means.
One such religious group are the Jews,
whose Zionist rabbis are teaching that the
Jewish State is their Messiah (Christ).
This is not surprising, since the Jews have
solid control of the occult as a whole.
Thus, Judaism has taken on the
antichrist banner, for they not only deny
that Jesus is the Christ, but they claim to
stand in the place of Christ. They are
usurpers.
One should keep in mind, also, that
the modern concept of "the Antichrist" is
reached by assuming that the "beasts" of
the book of Revelation are the same as
"the Antichrist." While there may be some
connection, these terms are different and
should not be treated as synonomous.



EDIT:

The London Jewish World of March 15, 1923 declared: "Fundamentally, Judaism is anti-Christian."

from the Talmud, Kethuboth 111a) In other words, to call the Jewish people the Messiah is no metaphor; they are literally just that; they are the "Messiah," says the Talmud.