Predestined?

[Curtis]

Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

 

[Dave M]

He cannot be both God as well as Man.

scriptures says he can and was, it can not get any clearer from he words of God himself

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

 

[Enxu]

The Jews had no problem understanding who Jesus was, but they could not understand how could a "man" claim to be God?

Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

The Jews thought He spoke blasphemy because they did not understand He was talking about who He was in the OT! But Jesus was indeed divine BEFORE He appeared as Man!

From Genesis till before Mary conceived Jesus, He was God yes! Jesus was not called Jesus at that time! He was simply the great I AM who spoke to Moses and all the other OT prophets. When Jesus was conceived in Mary, He became a Man and was only Man during His 30+ years of earthly ministry! He had the Spirit of God in Him upon His water baptism by John the Baptist, and it was the first time the Spirit of God ever dwelt in flesh since creation which is why Jesus was called God in the flesh or rather God amongst us! After He died and resurrected, He ceased His 30+ years of mortality and again became divine! Tell me why this is so hard to understand??

 

[Curtis]

Wicked spirits had no problems recognizing Jesus as the Holy One of God!

Mar 1:23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,
Mar 1:24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.

 

[Curtis]

The Jews thought He spoke blasphemy because they did not understand He was talking about who He was in the OT! But Jesus was indeed divine BEFORE He appeared as Man!

From Genesis till before Mary conceived Jesus, He was God yes! Jesus was not called Jesus at that time! He was simply the great I AM who spoke to Moses and all the other OT prophets. When Jesus was conceived in Mary, He became a Man and was only Man during His 30+ years of earthly ministry! He had the Spirit of God in Him upon His water baptism by John the Baptist, and it was the first time the Spirit of God ever dwelt in flesh since creation which is why Jesus was called God in the flesh or rather God amongst us! After He died and resurrected, He ceased His 30+ years of mortality and again became divine! Tell me why this is so hard to understand??

Jesus Christ the son of man, the Son of God claimed himself to be the great "I AM.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Joh 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

 

[Enxu]

scriptures says he can and was, it can not get any clearer from he words of God himself

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

That does not mean Jesus was both divine and Man! If that is what He meant He would have simply said He and the Father are both divine!

Jesus explained clearly what Oneness meant!

“That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us” John 17:21

Oneness meant the Father in Jesus, and the believers also being in the Father and Jesus! That does not make the believers or Jesus the Man divine as mere mortals!

 

[Enxu]

Jesus Christ the son of man, the Son of God claimed himself to be the great "I AM.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Joh 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

That I explained already Jesus was talking about who He WAS in the OT. He spoke the truth because He was indeed divine in the OT! If you insist on being extra biblical then let the Lord be the judge!

 

[Enxu]

Wicked spirits had no problems recognizing Jesus as the Holy One of God!

Mar 1:23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,
Mar 1:24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.

If the words “of God” means divinity, then it means all those mortal human beings who are called men and women of God in time past have some form of divinity in their nature.

What blasphemy!

 

[Enxu]

People nowadays will not read the Gospel as they are and want to read meanings into texts that are not there! Even when you show them Scriptures that clearly contradict what they believe they still hold onto false teachings and impose extra biblical meanings onto Scriptures.

Truly as prophesied:

“So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.” (2 Timothy 4:4)

I am done on this site. The Lord have mercy on those who are deceived.

 

[Butch5]

are you denying the deity of Jesus??

No. I explained in my post that Jesus is still Deity. He emptied Himself of the form of God

 

[Curtis]

If the words “of God” means divinity, then it means all those mortal human beings who are called men and women of God in time past have some form of divinity in their nature.

What blasphemy!

Nobody can be a son of God unless you have the Son of God living inside them!!!!

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[Sue D.]

The born-again believer has the Holy Spirit indwelling / residing/ within us.

 

[Butch5]

If God is a Spirit then how would God give unto us his Son? Isa tells us, "unto us a child is born..." The child that was born would be the way in which the Son would be given.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus fully understood this as he said in the book of Hebrews....

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

The body that was prepared for the giving of God's Son was the "child that was born"

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Going all the way back to Abraham in which God promised his "seed" would be more numerous than the stars, or on the sand sea.

Exo 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.

Who is the seed of Abraham that would be more numerous than the stars in the sky?

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Jesus's body (the child that was born) was the "temple" in which the Son of God lived.

My body will one day die, but I (the spiritual man) inside will never die.
.

Now I'm really confused. What happened to God? It seems we have two Jesus' here. Was Jesus' physical body Jesus? It appears to me that this is some type of Dualism. From what you're saying it seems to me that you believe there is a spiritual man who lives in a temporary body. Is that what you're saying?

 

[Butch5]

OK, Are you saying that the Father is Jesus?

Since you liked the post, I'll take that as a yes. So, should I conclude that you hold to Modalism?

 

[Enxu]

That I explained already Jesus was talking about who He WAS in the OT. If you insist on being extra biblical then let the Lord be the judge!

Nobody can be a son of God unless you have the Son of God living inside them!!!!

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Yeah and according to you just because we have the Spirit of God in us we are now both divine and flesh, having two natures at the same time. If that is not blasphemy I don’t know what is. I have absolutely no divinity in my nature, yet I am born again and the Spirit of God is in me, but it appears you believe otherwise because you believe Jesus had two natures at the same time on the premise that He had the Spirit of God in Him.

Just to make it clear, Jesus now in His resurrected state in heaven is again God and therefore divine. Jesus is God now again. So I never denied the deity of Christ as some falsely believe. But He never had two natures at the same time in Him at any point in time. He was God in the OT, He was Man for 30+ years and then He is again God now. Either you are under a spirit of deception or you wilfully deny the truth: Judge for yourself what is the case.

 

[Sue D.]

Jesus was born a real, physical person -- His physical body died on the cross -- as the Son of God He took our sins with Him and died with them. The Gospel narrative says that darkness came upon the earth at that time. That's because God cannot look upon sin - so He had to look away -- thus darkness. And the veil in the Holy of Holies war torn from bottom to top. Jesus Christ had become our intercessor between mankind and God. After that -- light came back. Showing that God is truly the real light in this world.

 

[Sue D.]

@Enxu -- No person Becomes deity upon their salvation. But we Do have the Holy Spirit residing within us. As per Ephesians 1:13 - 14. It's called the Holy Spirit of promise -- who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

that is OSAS. Because once the Holy Spirit comes to reside in a person He will never leave. And that person's life Will be Different in a Positive way. A person will no longer be a Slave to Sin. We Will have Choices to make And the Holy Spirit residing in us to help us make the Right choices. Will we Always make the Right choices -- probably not because we are Still only human. And satan does Not want a believer to be Positive example to non-believers and doesn't want us to be effective witnesses for Christ.

If other's Can't 'see' Christ in our daily lives -- then there's something 'off' with Us. No one - while on this earth -- will live a perfect, sinless life. But the Holy Spirit Will give us new, better interests, desires. that desires will be to please God.

 

[Enxu]

Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

In fact, Jesus already put on immortality when He resurrected, which is why Thomas called Him Lord and God AFTER His resurrection: which is exactly what Paul taught, that all dead believers will put on immortality upon resurrection. Yet no believer is immortal before the resurrection, and they certainly cannot be both divine and mortal like you falsely believe.

 

[Enxu]

In fact, Jesus already put on immortality when He resurrected, which is why Thomas called Him Lord and God AFTER His resurrection: which is exactly what Paul taught, that all dead believers will put on immortality upon resurrection.

Yet by saying that Jesus the Man is both divine and man simply because the Spirit of God dwell in Him is alluding that believers now are also both divine and mortal because they too have the Spirit of God living in them. Both of you hold onto this false belief but now you contradict your own statements by saying we believers are not divine. So what do you believe?

@Enxu -- No person Becomes deity upon their salvation. But we Do have the Holy Spirit residing within us. As per Ephesians 1:13 - 14. It's called the Holy Spirit of promise -- who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

that is OSAS. Because once the Holy Spirit comes to reside in a person He will never leave. And that person's life Will be Different in a Positive way. A person will no longer be a Slave to Sin. We Will have Choices to make And the Holy Spirit residing in us to help us make the Right choices. Will we Always make the Right choices -- probably not because we are Still only human. And satan does Not want a believer to be Positive example to non-believers and doesn't want us to be effective witnesses for Christ.

If other's Can't 'see' Christ in our daily lives -- then there's something 'off' with Us. No one - while on this earth -- will live a perfect, sinless life. But the Holy Spirit Will give us new, better interests, desires. that desires will be to please God.

OSAS is yet another heresy. There is nothing in Scriptures that say people cannot turn away from the faith or fall away from believing. The Gospel said that there will be people turning away from the faith, falling away from the faith, making shipwreck of their faith in the end times.

“Cling to your faith in Christ, and keep your conscience clear. For some people have deliberately violated their consciences; as a result, their faith has been shipwrecked.” 1 Timothy 1:19

“Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons” 1 Timothy 4:1

 

[Sue D.]

No person Becomes both divine and mortal upon their salvation. Having the Holy Spirit indwelling a person does Not make them deity -- it simply means that part of deity is within us. No one Becomes God. there Is a belief system that teaches that believers Become 'little Gods'. And no we don't. we Are sinners saved by grace. And we can be very thankful for that.

Enxu -- you certainly are finding a lot of heresy in God's Word. that which you are not understanding In God's Word - you are calling heretical teaching by us. But you Do have an enquiring soul.

2 timothy 3 is an interesting chapter. vs 15 and 16. as well as vs 12 and 13