Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

Are we ALL the offspring of God??

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


The Devil never created anything as he is a creation himself. He perverts the spirits that come out from the Father that inhabit these earthen vessels, but the spirits are from God.

In the mind they are the children of the Devil but that mind that is carnal will eventually return to the dust from which it was made. And the spirit will return to the Father who gave it.
 
The Devil never created anything as he is a creation himself. He perverts the spirits that come out from the Father that inhabit these earthen vessels, but the spirits are from God.

In the mind they are the children of the Devil but that mind that is carnal will eventually return to the dust from which it was made. And the spirit will return to the Father who gave it.
Are you LDS?
 
The question is:
"Are we all the offsprings of God?"
The answer: The bible as a whole makes it plain we are not offsprings of GOD.

Now look I am not attacking anyones beliefs. But let us approach the Text of Scripture that addresses this topic, in light of Scripture. And get The "Truth" in what it is actually saying and why it is address by scripture.

I will address two portions of scriptures i think needs to be address 1st. I waited for others to bring to attention no one did..

1. Paul never claim or "GOD" never claim or the Bible, but "JESUS" might have implied it to be so, for a reason, that we are offsprings of "god". But The Bible and GOD have proclaim we are a creation of GOD. And that is "Indicative".


The song "Psalms" 82 was wrote by a man name "ASAPH" who works for David, i believe a chief song writer a "Levi". Let us say he is no different from the gifted song writers we have today. He wrote as he felt, and just because a "Psalmists" or a "Poet" writes songs or poetry that is in the bible does not mean they are "theological correct". And they makes that clear. we know that as readers of "Holy Scripture" this is not new to us.

Remember there are no verses in The Original Text of Scripture. and no sentence breaks continue flow of words are not separated by spaces. Hebrew, written starting from the right going left.

Now this is a song, Psalms 82: "ASAPH" singing this to himself: in the song "

GOD said none of these words "ASAPH" Song these words not "GOD" and neither was He "Prophesying">

A Psalm of Asaph.

1God takes His stand in His own congregation;
He judges in the midst of the rulers.

2How long will you judge unjustly,
And show partiality to the wicked? Selah.

3Vindicate the weak and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and destitute.

4Rescue the weak and needy;
Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.

5They do not know nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are shaken.

6I SAID, “You are gods,
And all of you are sons of the Most High.

7“Nevertheless you will die like men,
And fall like any one of the princes.”


8Arise, O God, judge the earth!
This is a man singing this!
And Paul and Jesus knew the The Religious Leaders would get the interpretations wrong, like they do all the Scriptures and they used it sometimes against them as a Good Teacher of The LAW would. Jesus and Apostle PAUL had been doing this kind of thing all through the BOOK. When you read the book you cannot but laugh how they used The Religious Leaders view of the LAW against them. "Are Not you A expert of The LAW and You do not know these things":sob: I would be reading the Bible i would laugh out loud. Look at this. ...It is all in the book. PAUL and JESUS, you cannot help but laugh. [Psalms 82 nothing but a song by a song writer and expressing his opinion and how he feels about the matter, in his human understanding, he is "Another religious" leader.:eyes:

Have some of you learn how to read the Bible sections and what they are?
1. Old testament
2' The Law
3. History
4. Poetry and Wisdom [songs} and Poets,, [ALL Those who wrote on these saying was not necessary believers but they were wise.] Like Moses "father-in=law" concerning the wisdom books.

Ok, now getting to Paul in the book of ACTS, I am laughing because Paul was slick, he was smooth, He was a expert in The LAW:sob: He was a lawyer all the way!

(Acts: 17)
note how he says this, he knows them , he has been watching them, listening to them,He knows how they act. he was studying them, In Athens, Mars Hill, The PARTHENON, The Areopagus with Those Epicureans of the Stoics, "Poets",Philosophers, you know those smart, they know everything, Paul is going to give "Thomas AGUINAS": and PloughBOY and many others a "Type and Shadow" they will need one day when they get surrounded by those high educated Lawyers.:sob: Athens Greece, Top of The Line. He is going trip them up, with some of their thoughts they think they know, So he can make his move. When you read them and how they work things out how they spoke, you know JESUS taught PAUL. The stuff they be pulling with those Jewish leaders.

(Acts 17) The trick is to convince them, they are on the right track, and acting like he is their friend, and in agreement with some of their thinking. Braking the ice.
22And Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I observe that you are very religious in all respects. 23“For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ What therefore you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you. 24“The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25neither is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all life and breath and all things; 26and He made from one, every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times, and the boundaries of their habitation, 27that they should seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;28for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said,:eyes: ‘FOR WE ALSO ARE HIS OFFSPRING.’ 29Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man. 30“Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all everywhere should repent,31because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”

He is slick! He got them, making them believe the UNKNOWN GOD and His GOD is The SAME GOD, and "THEIR POETS" have been talking about HIM ALL THE TIME. and they are little gods, he is breaking the ice and reeling them in. "Jesus said: Follow me and I will make you Fisherman of MEN":

You must know how to read "Scripture" GOD has design it with a sense of "ART". the Bible is not dull, I have laugh so much, just by reading the bible than i have laugh about anything in my life. I have heard our Father it seems he has said: I am going to show you something. read this, i start reading a book in the Bible, and just keep reading and for get why i was reading and in the story a light would come on! And I would burst out laughing. And it would seem he the father would enjoy seeing me laughing. My wife use to say only time you laugh is when you read that Bible, I have preach this story on occasions Concerning "MARS HILL" The Epicureans who where the Disciples of Epicurus, The Stoics were the disciples of ZENO. Any time a good translation use and spell "GOD" with small caps, it means refers to a pagan god. a poor cheap translation does not discern between the two Renderings most of the time.

Now referring to Jesus about this topic. it is similar the same approach. And we must give attention to the writers view and how he documented it.

(John 10)BSB
…“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.” Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—…

Referring to "PSALMS 82" ASAPH the song writer said. But GOD did not say that. ASAPH said. "I have said you are gods"

Ok, no one address this, i did.
And i am going to sleep. and if i made typo's sorry.
 
When God breathe the breath of life into a man, he became a "Living being" [a soul := a individual being]. This is in The beginning of a place called "creation". God do not live in creation, GOD does not Live in time, He creates time and creation. He is not a being but as I human we have to refer to HIM in "Anthropomorphic" words. We do not know what a "GOD" is but GOD has given us a way to relate to HIM "Anthropomorphically".

And here in 2021 we are still living in The Beginning of something HE is Still Creating.in "Christ". When we came out of our mother's womb we are "souls" not spirits. Anthropomorphically "GOD" is a SPIRIT. Unregenerate people are nothing but "souls".

Jesus came to do his part, so that We who are individual "Souls" i am "PloughBOY" a Individual "SOUL a Person" Jesus came that i Might become a "New CREATURE" not in thought not in mind. not in character. I will always be "PLOUGHBOY" throughout ETERNITY, maybe a different eternal name. But since I have become a "New Creature" a "ETERNAL SPIRIT" is Living in ME and Others ETERNAL LIFE. For JESUS has Given me
"ETERNAL Life". "ETERNAL LIFE" The Spirit in me , Will raise me [my Soul] from DEATH if I die, The SAME SPIRIT that Raise JESUS from THE DEATH that is in Him He has given us, [some] Those who have been Regenerated.
"Born of GOD", "BORN From ABOVE" not Born again but "BORN of HEAVEN" not those born from the earth. BORN of HEAVEN a real Birth ,not a "
Psychological Birth. But A real Birth, not a mind birth a real "SPIRITUAL BIRTH" coming out of HEAVEN into our BODIES like a "RUSHING WIND." and More powerful That a "NUCLEAR BOMB":pensive: A Nuclear Bomb might have some power, But It does not have The Power, to Raise The DEAD!

Now no finite mind can explain that. The Brain cannot comprehend the infinite, because The infinite is in-comprehensible by a finite mind.
"GOD" is incomprehensible. And after we been in Eternity" after a Trillion earth light years. we will not scratch the surface who HE is and learning every moment since we been there concerning HIS Character.:pensive: And we will not call Him "GOD" for He is our FATHER:eyes: I DO hope you hear me. "Our FATHER".

The Reformed Theologian has said: The Problem with people the "GOD" they think of, is just to small.


( 1 Corinthians 15)
King James Bible
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. MEANING JESUS.

New King James Version
And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” THE LAST ADAM BECAME A LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT. :eyes:
Geneva Bible of 1587
As it is also written, The first man Adam was made a liuing soule: and the last Adam was made a quickening Spirit.

Bishops' Bible of 1568
As it is also written: The first man Adam was made a lyuyng soule, and the last Adam was made a quickenyng spirite.

Coverdale Bible of 1535
As it is wrytten: The first man Adam was made in to a naturall life, and the last Ada in to a spiritual life.

Tyndale Bible of 1526
as it is written: the fyrste man Adam was made a livinge soule: and ye last Ada was made a quickeninge sprete.

I have warn people and warn them, do not trust this world and all of these New Copyrights, You always check the copy right of a Bible. and never trust bias books. A lot of Modern day christians, 1st trust their church, 2nd their pastor, 3rd. their imagining JESUS, 4th their own personal interpretation of The Bible
5th Their "IDOL" GOD. 6th. The "GOD" of Their "Imagination". and most of the time in that order, Modern Day Christianity has develop this Personal Cult of their own choosing. And they will fight you "Tooth and NAIL" and they travel in "PACKS".:pensive:


Adam and Eve produce souls and JESUS gave some souls "ETERNAL LIFE". He Gave them a "ADVOCATE" a "PARACLETE" which has given souls "ETERNAL LIFE". and It lives in Them forever and ever and will never leave them. "The SPIRIT of GOD":pensive: But wait until The FATHER give us those "Glorified Bodies":pensive:
 
And here in 2021 we are still living in The Beginning of something HE is Still Creating.in "Christ". When we came out of our mother's womb we are "souls" not spirits. Anthropomorphically "GOD" is a SPIRIT. Unregenerate people are nothing but "souls".

So you would deny the fact that the Bible states without the spirit the body is dead? James 2:26 And that as you say we are souls instead of having a spirit that is part of the soul we are
spiritless souls?
Adam was a living soul but at first was not unregenerate until after his disobedience. Was he then changed somehow to become that spiritless soul at his fall? Or rather did his spirit become
dead in sin and tresspass but remained within him to keep the body alive?

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return to God who gave it.

Job 3:11
Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?

Gen 25:8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age................

Gen25:17..... Ishmael died and gave up the ghost...................

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my SPIRIT: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Looks pretty clear to me that giving up the ghost is dyeing and the ghost is the spirit that returns to the Father.

New King James Version
And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” THE LAST ADAM BECAME A LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT.
Adam was a man made without a carnal mind, he was given that at his cursing for his disobedience and all children ever born since have inherited that mind from their father of the flesh.
Now the Father of the flesh of Jesus was God who cannot pass a carnal mind to His progeny because He does not have one. Thus we have a scenario where the only 2 men ever made/born
outside the carnal mind are compared to one another. But both men, as it behooved Jesus to me made in ALL THINGS as his brethren. Therefore He was born a man but without the carnal mind,
but He possessed that when the sin of the world was laid upon him so He truly knew what that mind felt like. He had to know experientially where we stood as He had to made like
us in ALL THINGS.
Jesus BECAME a life giving spirit. When did that occur? One does not become what one already is. Adam after his fall could not be any more than a living soul,
Jesus on the other hand BECAME the first begotten from among the dead. and became the Author of eternal salvation as thats ecxactly what the Father wanted was a reconciliation of all things back to Him through Jesus. Thus a resurrecting of the creation through the first to be resurrected. After all He did give up the ghost so he did die else his (sleeping event) in your other post would not have been a sacrifice. Every animal ever sacrificed for the sins of the people died. Thus the Lamb of God also died for the sins of the people. It was not a slumber party.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to His abundant mercy hath BEGOTTEN US AGAIN unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus
Christ from the dead.
Wonder why Peter would use that term BEGOTTEN AGAIN? Could it be that we were begotten as spirits living in earthen vessels to begin with, then QUICKENED by the begetting again
process and made alive unto God?
Jesus was begotten of the Father but the egg that was fertilized was already in Mary, also given/made by God. The same thing happens to us spiritually in that we have the feminine
spiritual "egg" within us that allows the body to be alive, but when the male spiritual genetics fuse with the feminine spiritual "egg" within us we become the New Creature.

You sure take many words to come up with a false pretense and try to tell everybody else that because you do not understand then there is no way that they can either. My Bible tells me that the
Anointing that we received of Him will guide us into all truth, so why on earth would anybody make the statement "you can't understand?" Unless????
Who knows the things that be of God save the Spirit of God and if that Spirit be in you then you too should know the things of God as maturity level allows.

We are spirits that came out from the Father who live in earthen vessels. Most are not BEGOTTEN AGAIN as they are not of the elect at the moment. And those who are not begotten again
are considered dead in sin and trespass, but the spirit is there else they would be dead physically. Until one gives up the ghost they are still physically alive.


 
So you would deny the fact that the Bible states without the spirit the body is dead? James 2:26 And that as you say we are souls instead of having a spirit that is part of the soul we are
spiritless souls?
Adam was a living soul but at first was not unregenerate until after his disobedience. Was he then changed somehow to become that spiritless soul at his fall? Or rather did his spirit become
dead in sin and tresspass but remained within him to keep the body alive?

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return to God who gave it.

Job 3:11 Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?

Gen 25:8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age................

Gen25:17..... Ishmael died and gave up the ghost...................

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my SPIRIT: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Looks pretty clear to me that giving up the ghost is dyeing and the ghost is the spirit that returns to the Father.


Adam was a man made without a carnal mind, he was given that at his cursing for his disobedience and all children ever born since have inherited that mind from their father of the flesh.
Now the Father of the flesh of Jesus was God who cannot pass a carnal mind to His progeny because He does not have one. Thus we have a scenario where the only 2 men ever made/born
outside the carnal mind are compared to one another. But both men, as it behooved Jesus to me made in ALL THINGS as his brethren. Therefore He was born a man but without the carnal mind,
but He possessed that when the sin of the world was laid upon him so He truly knew what that mind felt like. He had to know experientially where we stood as He had to made like
us in ALL THINGS.
Jesus BECAME a life giving spirit. When did that occur? One does not become what one already is. Adam after his fall could not be any more than a living soul,
Jesus on the other hand BECAME the first begotten from among the dead. and became the Author of eternal salvation as thats ecxactly what the Father wanted was a reconciliation of all things back to Him through Jesus. Thus a resurrecting of the creation through the first to be resurrected. After all He did give up the ghost so he did die else his (sleeping event) in your other post would not have been a sacrifice. Every animal ever sacrificed for the sins of the people died. Thus the Lamb of God also died for the sins of the people. It was not a slumber party.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to His abundant mercy hath BEGOTTEN US AGAIN unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus
Christ from the dead.
Wonder why Peter would use that term BEGOTTEN AGAIN? Could it be that we were begotten as spirits living in earthen vessels to begin with, then QUICKENED by the begetting again
process and made alive unto God?
Jesus was begotten of the Father but the egg that was fertilized was already in Mary, also given/made by God. The same thing happens to us spiritually in that we have the feminine
spiritual "egg" within us that allows the body to be alive, but when the male spiritual genetics fuse with the feminine spiritual "egg" within us we become the New Creature.

You sure take many words to come up with a false pretense and try to tell everybody else that because you do not understand then there is no way that they can either. My Bible tells me that the
Anointing that we received of Him will guide us into all truth, so why on earth would anybody make the statement "you can't understand?" Unless????
Who knows the things that be of God save the Spirit of God and if that Spirit be in you then you too should know the things of God as maturity level allows.

We are spirits that came out from the Father who live in earthen vessels. Most are not BEGOTTEN AGAIN as they are not of the elect at the moment. And those who are not begotten again
are considered dead in sin and trespass, but the spirit is there else they would be dead physically. Until one gives up the ghost they are still physically alive.
1 st I may say as many times before it is a "translation" problem that a lot of bible readers have, in reading translations. your quote below"
"So you would deny the fact that the Bible states without the spirit the body is dead? James 2:26 And that as you say we are souls instead of having a spirit that is part of the soul we are" { I didn't say none of that, you are saying I said that] you are assuming.. You are not hearing me right and it is a reason for that} that you cannot understand. And you do know what the "word" cannot means.

You are claiming my stances on The Original Copies Manuscript on what The Word of GOD says; by your personal understand and personal way of translating a :"translation" and plus you are saying something the Translation is not saying.. If this approach is use in all of the rest of "a translation" of The "Holy Scriptures" the same errors will occur in your form of Translating a "translation" of a Biblical text. Error in interpreting scripture produce error upon error and it builds upon error and the mountain grows higher. I learn this over 40 years ago. Be careful how you build upon a house. Is the 1st you learn before you attempt to study a "bible", just by reading the Bible instructions, for a person to do so. You read it 1st. before you even attempt to study any of it. Then you start a diligent study of it, that GOD may see your efforts. Then HE decides what He wants to teach you, and see what is within its pages.
The word "spirit" and the word "soul" are sometime use 'simultaneously". But when you have a full view and a understanding of the universal "biblical text" you know the different and the approach of the writer and his audience in whom he is writing to, without it being pointed out and know or familiar of the capacity of the writer of The text we may be referring to.

So in saying all of this, I am not a "professor" with accredit credentials from a reliable institute to teach or instruct others in "interpreting" the science of Biblical translating of the "Original copied Text of The Manuscripts" nor the Style of the writers who wrote them. BUT I do know I know how To "READ" a reliable and good Translation of "The Original Copied Manuscripts". But I do know how to make a "New Convert" into a "Disciple to Jesus Christ" if they so those after conversion to walk in HIS ways, and not the ways of "religious men" and follow others in their prenoxious ways.

I am just a "PloughBoy" but Ploughing my rolls straight. and every now and then stopping and removing those stones that maybe blocking my way, preventing me from keeping my furrows straight and narrow. And have chosen to be not taught by a man or instructed by neither man or a women pertaining to 'The WORDS spoken By GOD" "For I am not a christian and I have no christians ways," For I am a "Child of The LIVING GOD" who is my Farther and I have many of brothers and sisters in HIs Kingdom. And they love me and I love them, For our Father has , taught us How to Love each other for we are one.

I am not a teacher but a "proclaimer",:pensive: By the one who sent me. And He has taught me what to say and how to say it. And I did not take this by my own desire. He chose me and I didn't choose HIM:pensive: or decided this way of life on my own initiative. But drag, and drag by "GOD".:pensive:
 
That's a great question. Here's my take. We are ALL born children of God but, over the course of life, we choose who will be our spiritual father. Some choose God but many choose Satan, even if they don't know it.

To be "begotten" you have to be born.

God is "A" Spirit, .. so to be born of God, is not the physical, its the Spiritual......"new" birth.
This is why Jesus told us that "you must be born again".....as your first birth does not birth you into God's Spirit....., it only births you into the physical realm.
You must be born AGAIN......and this birth is the Spiritual 2nd birth that is CAUSED by GOD, who is "A" Spirit.
The unbelievers.... are not spiritually born again, so they are NOT children of God.
To be a child of God, you have to be born again SPIRITUAL:Y.....by the Spirit of God. so that you become a "SON".....

Taking this one step farther......... Jesus said of those who are NOT children of God....."you are of YOUR FATHER......= the Devil.

So, being born again, actually causes you to have a new Father...... and that is why you will end up with Him... in Heaven.

If you are not born again, you have a different spiritual father, and that is why you will end up with HIM.........if you are never born again.

A.) ""You MUST be born again.""
 
To be "begotten" you have to be born.

God is "A" Spirit, .. so to be born of God, is not the physical, its the Spiritual......"new" birth.
This is why Jesus told us that "you must be born again".....as your first birth does not birth you into God's Spirit....., it only births you into the physical realm.
You must be born AGAIN......and this birth is the Spiritual 2nd birth that is CAUSED by GOD, who is "A" Spirit.
The unbelievers.... are not spiritually born again, so they are NOT children of God.
To be a child of God, you have to be born again SPIRITUAL:Y.....by the Spirit of God. so that you become a "SON".....

Taking this one step farther......... Jesus said of those who are NOT children of God....."you are of YOUR FATHER......= the Devil.

So, being born again, actually causes you to have a new Father...... and that is why you will end up with Him... in Heaven.

If you are not born again, you have a different spiritual father, and that is why you will end up with HIM.........if you are never born again.

A.) ""You MUST be born again.""
You are not going to gain to many friends talking like that "Kemosabe"
 
@Ploughboy said:-
Are we ALL the offspring of God?

Hello @PloughBoy,

Forgive me if I quote this passage in order to see the context in which the words,' ... for ye also are his offspring ... ' comes:-

'Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said,
Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions,
I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.
.. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, Him declare I unto you.
.... God that made the world and all things therein,
...... seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth,
........ dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
.......... Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though He needed any thing,
............ seeing He giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
.............. And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth,
................ and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
.................. That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after Him, and find Him,
.................... though He be not far from every one of us:
...................... For in Him we live, and move, and have our being;
........................ as certain also of your own poets have said, "For we are also his offspring."

.......................... Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God,
........................... we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
.............................. And the times of this ignorance God winked at;
................................ but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
.................................. Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness
.................................... by that Man whom He hath ordained;
...................................... whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead.'
(Acts 17:22-31)

* Paul is quoting the words of their own poets, Aratus of Cilicia and Cleanthes who had said, 'We are his offspring'. Paul, who knew that they referred to the God Zeus ( or Jupiter ) and not to Jehovah the living God: nevertheless, without endorsing the mythology of these writers, used them; by showing how unreasonable it was for such as they, who were so described, to think that the Godhead was 'like unto gold, or silver, or stone'. Paul is merely using the poets words as a means of impressing upon his hearers the folly of worshipping such images. Who were not, unlike themselves, flesh and blood: so did not have the means of hearing, seeing, speaking, or comprehending.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

@Samson2020, @B-A-C, @MrBear, @K9Buckeye, @TheWordIsOne, @Reba1, @Bethel
 
Last edited:
Hello @PloughBoy,

Forgive me if I quote this passage in order to see the context in which the words,' ... for ye also are his offspring ... ' comes:-

'Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said,
Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions,
I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.
.. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, Him declare I unto you.
.... God that made the world and all things therein,
...... seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth,
........ dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
.......... Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though He needed any thing,
............ seeing He giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
.............. And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth,
................ and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
.................. That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after Him, and find Him,
.................... though He be not far from every one of us:
...................... For in Him we live, and move, and have our being;
........................ as certain also of your own poets have said, "For we are also his offspring."

.......................... Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God,
........................... we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
.............................. And the times of this ignorance God winked at;
................................ but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
.................................. Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness
.................................... by that Man whom He hath ordained;
...................................... whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead.'
(Acts 17:22-31)

* Paul is quoting the words of their own poets, Aratus of Cilicia and Cleanthes who had said, 'We are his offspring'. Paul, who knew that they referred to the God Zeus ( or Jupiter ) and not to Jehovah the living God: nevertheless, without endorsing the mythology of these writers, used them; by showing how unreasonable it was for such as they, who were so described, to think that the Godhead was 'like unto gold, or silver, or stone'. Paul is merely using the poets words as a means of impressing upon his hearers the folly of worshipping such images. Who were not, unlike themselves, flesh and blood: so did not have the means of hearing, seeing, speaking, or comprehending.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

@Samson2020, @B-A-C, @MrBear, @K9Buckeye, @TheWordIsOne, @Reba1, @Bethel
You got it! He knew what they were, Paul was a slick lawyer. a expert of The LAW:sob: Never can trust them, I could have been one too, and on my way to hell!
 
Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God,


How is this following verse not an endorsement of what they might not have understood, but nonetheless had right?
And to follow that with:

Psalms 82:6 I have said; Ye are gods; and ALL OF YOU ARE CHILDREN OF THE MOST HIGH." This, of course, was OT wording before anyone could have been born again.
 
How is this following verse not an endorsement of what they might not have understood, but nonetheless had right?
And to follow that with:

Psalms 82:6 I have said; Ye are gods; and ALL OF YOU ARE CHILDREN OF THE MOST HIGH." This, of course, was OT wording before anyone could have been born again.
Hello @Samson2020,

Thank you for referring to this Psalm.

The Lord Jesus Himself quoted this Psalm in (John 10:34-36) :-

' Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
If He called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Say ye of Him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world,
Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?'

In Psalm 82:6 the word, 'gods', is used of earthly judges, who serve Him in 'the congregation of the mighty', which is God's assembly in it civil aspect. Moses is spoken of in this way in Exodus 7:1.' ... And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: ... ... '. In Psalm 82:6, it is the judges that are being referred to. See also Exodus 22:28:- ' ... Thou shalt not revile the gods (ie the judges), nor curse the ruler of thy people. ... '

I learned something too in looking this up,
Within the love of Christ our Saviour
Chris

@PloughBoy, @B-A-C, @MrBear, @K9Buckeye, @TheWordIsOne, @Reba1, @Bethel
 
Last edited:
How is this following verse not an endorsement of what they might not have understood, but nonetheless had right?
And to follow that with:

Psalms 82:6 I have said; Ye are gods; and ALL OF YOU ARE CHILDREN OF THE MOST HIGH." This, of course, was OT wording before anyone could have been born again.
' Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God,
we ought not to think
that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone,
graven by art and man's device.'
(Act 17:29)

Hello again @Samson2020,

The word 'offspring' in Acts 17:29 (above), is the Greek word, 'genos': translated elsewhere in Scripture, 'kind,' 'race,' 'nation,' 'kindred', and translated, 'offspring' only here and Revelation 22:16 :- ' I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.'.

Adam because a creation of God was called a son of God, as the angels in heaven are also so called, because a creation of God. It does not mean that they were His offspring in any other sense . All mankind are descended from Adam, and in that sense are the posterity or offspring of God. That every child born into the world is, 'comes fresh and fair from the hands of it's maker,' and is therefore the direct offspring of God is contradicted by John 1:13, where the one begotten of God is set in opposition to the rest of mankind who are begotten of the flesh and will of man, ' ... which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. ... ' (John 1:13) . (Ref:- Bible marginal notes)

The Lord Jesus Christ is God's only 'begotten' Son: and believers are 'born of God' (spiritually) in Christ alone.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

@PloughBoy, @B-A-C, @MrBear, @K9Buckeye, @TheWordIsOne, @Reba1, @Bethel
 
How is this following verse not an endorsement of what they might not have understood, but nonetheless had right?
And to follow that with:

Psalms 82:6 I have said; Ye are gods; and ALL OF YOU ARE CHILDREN OF THE MOST HIGH." This, of course, was OT wording before anyone could have been born again.


There is a context...
Its this........if you are not born again, you are not a SON of God, so, you are not a child of God., = Spiritually.

Unbelievers, are not born again, so, .....any way you want to slice and divide it, ... what is NOT born of God, )born again< , is not a Son of God, so, they are not a CHILD of God ...spiritually.

See, when you are born again by the Spirit of God you become 'ONE with God" "In Christ".
You become an "heir of God", and a "joint heir with Christ".
You become "in the beloved", and you become a "brethren"..
You in fact become the spiritual begotten of Father God.

Unbelievers are not so, and that is why this "children" of the most High, ......can't be their Spiritual Identification.
Not EVER.
 
Psalms 82:6 I have said; Ye are gods; and ALL OF YOU ARE CHILDREN OF THE MOST HIGH." This, of course, was OT wording before anyone could have been born again.

Psa 82:7; "Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes.

gods small g, is different from God big G.
 
There is a context...
Its this........if you are not born again, you are not a SON of God, so, you are not a child of God., = Spiritually.

Unbelievers, are not born again, so, .....any way you want to slice and divide it, ... what is NOT born of God, )born again< , is not a Son of God, so, they are not a CHILD of God ...spiritually.

See, when you are born again by the Spirit of God you become 'ONE with God" "In Christ".
You become an "heir of God", and a "joint heir with Christ".
You become "in the beloved", and you become a "brethren"..
You in fact become the spiritual begotten of Father God.

Unbelievers are not so, and that is why this "children" of the most High, ......can't be their Spiritual Identification.
Not EVER.


My point in the original title was not to infer that all humans were spiritually begotten AGAIN, "born again", it was that we all came out from God in the first place.
Even though a person is not born from above and becoming a son of the Most High yet, they are still spirits in earthen vessels that came out from God.

When Jesus taught those within ear shot how to pray He said OUR FATHER who art in heaven, No new covenant yet so no one but Him had the Holy Ghost, but still He said their
Father was God.
When telling Mary that she should not touch Him as He had not yet ascended to His Father and to go and tell His brethren that He was going to ascend to MY Father and YOUR FATHER.
These disciples were not yet born again so how is it that God is their Father according to Jesus, but not using your above discussion?

Mal 2:10 Have we not ALL one Father? Hath not one God created us?................. This is the word of the LORD that came to Malachi thus these are Gods words claiming that He is the Father of
ALL humans even though they are not born again yet.

What has ever been created that God did not create, as ALL things came out from Him? Is He not the creator and Father of everything?

Romans 11:36 For of Him, and through Him, and to Him are all things: To whom be glory forever. Amen.

Psa 82:7; "Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes.

gods small g, is different from God big G.


This was a simple thread about the origins of the spirits that inhabit the earthen vessels we call human bodies. It had nothing to do with being born again.

Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods: and all of you are children of the Most High.
This verse written 500 or so years before Jesus, spoke to the fact that all came out from the Father. Period. Not trying to add anything to that point.

The original question was:
Now as Paul states that all men are the offspring of God, (which would include Jesus by 31's reading) where and who were we before being placed in this earthen vessel? And for what purpose? Keeping in mind that Paul also stated that God did not need any thing.

Please try and keep the responses on point. If you do not know then do not respond as it only clutters up the thread.
 
Hello @Samson2020,

Thank you for referring to this Psalm.

The Lord Jesus Himself quoted this Psalm in (John 10:34-36) :-

' Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
If He called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Say ye of Him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world,
Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?'

In Psalm 82:6 the word, 'gods', is used of earthly judges, who serve Him in 'the congregation of the mighty', which is God's assembly in it civil aspect. Moses is spoken of in this way in Exodus 7:1.' ... And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: ... ... '. In Psalm 82:6, it is the judges that are being referred to. See also Exodus 22:28:- ' ... Thou shalt not revile the gods (ie the judges), nor curse the ruler of thy people. ... '

I learned something too in looking this up,
Within the love of Christ our Saviour
Chris

@PloughBoy, @B-A-C, @MrBear, @K9Buckeye, @TheWordIsOne, @Reba1, @Bethel
I still do not understand, why many keep addressing these verses as if GOD is Saying this and is originating from "GOD" just because something is written in the Bible does not mean it is "THE WORDS of GOD" WOW! JESUS HELP US! God never spoke those words in Psalm 82: so they are not The WORDS of GOD. They are the song of "Asaph" a mere unregenerate man. One of "The sons of GOD" will never make that kind of mistake, a child will, of "GOD" will make mistakes like that. "LORD help us"! instead of we growing in Christ , millions are going backwards and contributing the words of a mere unregenerate man as "The WORDs of GOD" that is written in the Bible. and the Bible makes it clear these are the words of "Asaph" and not The WORDs of GOD"

I will say again , but these words are going to fall on :DEATH" ears. You 1st. must learn how to read "the Bible" once you learn how to read the Bible then you read the Bible from the Beginning [Genesis] and march straight threw, all the way to Revelation. Then you read it again with dictionaries all around you. and Lexicons. Hebrew and a Greek and a unabridged and a "collegiate" English Dictionary. if your native language is English. Next the main course of this meal, a "International's Standard Bible Encyclopedia" and last of all a "Vine's New Testament Dictionary on New Testament Greek WORDS" early copyright. Not the late copyrights with Hebrews words.

Now that list is for the serious Bible student, And if this has not been your "Arsenal" for studying the Bible through the years until you have worn out a "NIV"pre copyright 1984 and a RSV pre-copyright 1970 and a pre copyright , a ASV pre-copyright 1977, and a "NSRB" pre-copyright 1999 preferable copyright 1967. if you have not worn out all of these , ALL OF THEM I would not dare try to teach anyone , thus says the "LORD" as a LAYMAN. And if you do take on the task of REPRESENTING "GOD"S WORD! You are going to pay price:pensive: In this world or The world to come. because you must likely have destroyed and contaminate many of lives. And that material is "LAYMAN" study materials.

You do not need to believe me. If you mess over His children and lead them astray by your pride, and lack of studying His WORD, you are going to pay a cost. He is going show you how much HE loves HIS CHILDREN and it ain't going to be pretty. I do not know how he does it, but HE will.

Just because a person says or believes that JESUS is The Christ of GOD< that gives them a pass. Jesus because a person says I accepted Jesus as My savior , you think that gives a person a pass. Just Because I tell people to accept JESUS, that gives a person a pass, Jus because I read my Bible that gives a person a pass. Just because I go to my church that gives a person a pass?
(John 12)BSB
"As for anyone who hears My words and does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world. THERE IS A JUDGE FOR the one who rejects Me and does not receive My words: THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN WILL JUDGE HIM ON THE LAST DAY. I have not spoken on My own, but the Father who sent Me HAS COMMANDED ME WHAT to say and how to say it.…"

There is a difference between The FATHER and The SON! And many, one day is going to find Out the hard way:eyes:


(Luke 12)NASB
“Now I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have nothing morethat they can do. But I will warn you whom to fear: FEAR THE ONE WHO, AFTER HE HAS KILLED SOMEONE, HAS THE POWER TO THROW THAT PERSON INTO HELL; yes, I tell you, FEAR HIM!

Now you can believe those devils if you want too:eyes: He pull, that move on EVE in The GARDEN, talking about you ain't going die:eyes:

He ain't going to pull that move on me:laughing: Everybody who is going to hell want company. I ani't going. Bye!:sob:

Now, do not get me wrong I am guilty too of a lot of things. I am scared of "my Wife" and those church women. I would rather hang with the Women in the BAR that those church women. I am safer. I am more safer around The Drunks than the church folks! Now that is bad, so I stay at home, by myself. I took it to another level "COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM" It is "THEM" "THEM" "THEM". Sci Fy movie about the ants. Staring "James Whitmore":eyes:

GOD has CALLED all of HIS Children to be a "good WITNESS" of What He has DONE for US. He has not called many to be Teachers, that number is "FEW" Very "FEW" it is a "GOD GIVEN speciality" gift. a "disciple" is a student of the word. a diligent student. TO make a disciple means, you make a new convert who has been "BORN From ABOVE" into a "DILIGENT Student of THE WORD of GOD".

If you are not a "disciple of Christ" it is impossible for you to make one. But we all have been called to witness to the unregenerate about our Conversion to Christ.:eyes:

Many will not like these words.:pensive: But at the "BEMA SEAT" I will give a account of "My STEWARDSHIP". "I have done what you have commanded me to do and many didn't like it, but I did it anyway" And I know it has been recorded and have been clocked, my hours and my diligent search in "The TRUTH" In the Book of Records Located in The Halls of JUSTICE:pensive:

My Brothers
and Sisters in Christ , do not let these People steal your CROWN, for your crown they are after not your SALVATION, for it is SEALED.
(REVELATION 3)BSB
"I am coming soon. Hold fast to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. The one who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God (the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from My God), and My new name.":pensive:


They are after our Crown. You might not understand it, but it is TRUE. They cannot take our Salvation away from us It is SEALED by the "SPIRIT of GOD" and That Seal cannot be broken. for It is The KINGS SEAL.
 
John 10:34-35 Jesus answered them, Is it not WRITTEN IN YOUR LAW, I said, Ye are gods. If he called them gods, unto whom the WORD OF GOD CAME, and the scripture cannot be broken....

2 Tim 3:16 "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
 
Back
Top