Trinity

[Butch5]

No, friend. It also says in John 3:19-20 on this matter: "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed." As long as men hide in darkness from the light, there's no possibility for them to "comprehend" the light since there's no encounter with the light in the first place. In your own analogy, no matter how well that something is explained to you, as long as you choose to not listen, as long as you focus on how to refute, deny or distort it instead of absorb, medidate and digest it, it's incomprehensible to you. "Comprehensibility" is not inherent to that something itself, but dependent on the listener.

Something that in incomprehensible cannot be understood. If men choose to stay in the darkness, it doesn' mean the light is incomprehensible. It is comprehensible, the just choose not to understand it. It doesn't mean they can't, they choose not to.

If someone explains physics to me and I don't understand it, it doesn't mean physics is incomprehensible

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Something that in incomprehensible cannot be understood. If men choose to stay in the darkness, it doesn' mean the light is incomprehensible. It is comprehensible, the just choose not to understand it. It doesn't mean they can't, they choose not to.

If someone explains physics to me and I don't understand it, it doesn't mean physics is incomprehensible

Incomprehensible to you, but comprehensible to that someone who explains it to you. That's not your choice.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Dear Member Searchingtoo,
Are you saying that Jesus who accepted the worship of others, set Himself up as a false God, because He accepted the worship of others?
I ask because we know that the Jews were told not to worship any other gods and yet it is plain to see that Jews in the NT did worship Jesus, and He accepted their worship. All the while Peter who was the instrument used to heal others, did not accept the worship of others, though they did try to.

On another note: I'm just curious who do you think was being spoken of in Isaiah 9:6? Was it Yeshua or someone who previously appeared or one who has yet to appear?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

You can't worship and love what you don't know. God as an all consuming fire cannot be worshipped, as a matter of historic fact it scared all twelve tribes of Israel off, that's the sentiment raised in Deut. 18:16. Note that God did NOT rebuke them or scowl at them. Instead, God accepted it as a resonable demand, and He responded with the promise of a future prophet, which is Jesus/Yeshua. This solution is necessary in order for God's people to worship and love him properly.

The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen— just as you desired of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God or see this great fire any more, lest I die.’ And the Lord said to me, ‘They are right in what they have spoken. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. (Deut. 18:15-18)

 

[Christ4Ever]

You can't worship and love what you don't know. God as an all consuming fire cannot be worshipped, as a matter of historic fact it scared all twelve tribes of Israel off, that's the sentiment raised in Deut. 18:16. Note that God did NOT rebuke them or scowl at them. Instead, God accepted it as a resonable demand, and He responded with the promise of a future prophet, which is Jesus/Yeshua. This solution is necessary in order for God's people to worship and love him properly.

The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen— just as you desired of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God or see this great fire any more, lest I die.’ And the Lord said to me, ‘They are right in what they have spoken. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. (Deut. 18:15-18)

Dear Jonathan_Gale,
God as an all consuming fire cannot be worshipped? Scared of God they were? Of course! That is not so surprising, but not worship? You have to get rid of a lot of the OT that makes reference to letting the people of Israeli know that they should only Worship God, the "all consuming fire" you make reference to. I'm sure you don't need references in the OT on Worshipping God, which is why I'm curious about the opening to your second sentence.

As far as your opening sentence. You can't love if you don't know what love is, so you are correct in a way but only in part. However, people can worship, without the knowledge of love and have done, so and still do. Is their worship directed to whom it should be? Probably not in most cases, which is why God tried many times over to redirect Israeli back to Him and only Him.

And since you appear to be standing in for Searchingtoo. Then I ask you. I'm just curious who do you think was being spoken of in Isaiah 9:6? Was it Yeshua or someone who previously appeared or one who has yet to appear?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Garee]

Yes, that's called theophany - appearance of God in human form, in many occasions in the OT! It wasn't a separate being who appeared to Abraham, it was God himself! That is a biblical fact, and you and the OP are repeatedly putting God in a box by denying that.

God uses theophanies as one of the manners of prophecy to represent the power of his Spirit. Just as in the same way of parables . . . they hide the spiritual unseen gospel understanding from Peter in Mathew below. Who falsely desired to house (box in) the Spirit of truth .

God used the law Moses and Elias as the prophet to represent his unseen authority.

Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

Again Moses is used throughout the Bible to represent the law of faith as it is writen and Elias the work or power of that faith or labor of love. .both working as one word .

Same as below using Peter from Matthew 17 to represent those that do seek to box God into the temporal things seen

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law (Moses ) and to the testimonyElias) if they speak not according to this word, (one) it is because there is no light in them.

Same principle is reported in Luke 15 according to that parable .(no man can serve two good teaching masters coming from one Lord of lords.

Men seeking after the dead things of this world. . them that have familiar spirits, as the wisdom called mammon and not after the wisdom of God (Moses and Elias ).. . sola scriptura.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.. . . wisdom of this world. And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.The law (Moses) and the prophets, power of law, Elisas) .were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.(sola scriptura)

The one Father of all Spirit life. The is Spirit of sonship that works in us yoked with him by which we cry out Abba, .

The first commandment . . have no other gods before him that includes our own self, as born again believers called sons of God. hear ye him. represented by two .

 

[Garee]

Dear Member Searchingtoo,
Are you saying that Jesus who accepted the worship of others, set Himself up as a false God, because He accepted the worship of others?
I ask because we know that the Jews were told not to worship any other gods and yet it is plain to see that Jews in the NT did worship Jesus, and He accepted their worship. All the while Peter who was the instrument used to heal others, did not accept the worship of others, though they did try to.

On another note: I'm just curious who do you think was being spoken of in Isaiah 9:6? Was it Yeshua or someone who previously appeared or one who has yet to appear?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

I would think the phrase "the government" will be on his shoulder must be interpreted.

Whose government on whose shoulder?


The government of God on his the son of mans shoulder?


Certainly not the government of dying powerless mankind. . The Father struck the Son bruised his heel by whom wounds we are healed .


Isaiah 53 :4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53 :10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

God is not served by human dying hands of mankind.

 

[PloughBoy]

I am different it took me years and years and many-years. after I became "Born of GOD" I was a baby in Christ. To learn and to learn to study what was The Trinity. it took me about 30 years and about 30 years to learn what Grace was in Christ, and Love maybe about 25 years to understand the Love of GOD. and what Holiness was, Maybe between 20 to 28 years to understand the Holiness of GOD. and What Faith was, once I became Born of GOD it took about 15 years for God to teach, me what these terms and words meant. and I am still learning, and I Cannot teach what I do not know. I cannot teach The Love of God, I cannot teach The operations of the TRINITY, FOR I am A "FINITE Creature,

And it is no way I can teach about that which is "Infinite" I can't do it..But I notice that many can, But I am going to wait patiently until I become "Infinite" an "Immortal" My Mind cannot comprehend that which is "infinite" but those who can and express that they can. Ok, I have nothing against them nor saying they cannot comprehend that which is "Incomprehensible to a "Finite mind"

I cannot do it. But I know one day I will understand, somewhat of that which is "infinite" but now I am "Finite" and cannot comprehend that which is "Incomprehensible" "The Operations of The Trinity" it is not a creature, it is not a human, But it is A "Being" [Aseity]

 

[Christ4Ever]

I would think the phrase "the government" will be on his shoulder must be interpreted.

Whose government on whose shoulder?


The government of God on his the son of mans shoulder?


Certainly not the government of dying powerless mankind. . The Father struck the Son bruised his heel by whom wounds we are healed .


Isaiah 53 :4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53 :10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

God is not served by human dying hands of mankind.

Dear Garee,
I see government as meaning rule, dominion, which is the purpose of government.

As far as your question "on whose shoulder?" that is what I was asking concerning Isaiah 9:6 to Searchingtoo, and Jonathan_Gale, and now it appears you as well.

Was it Yeshua or someone who previously appeared or one who has yet to appear?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Searchingtoo]

Dear Member Searchingtoo,
Are you saying that Jesus who accepted the worship of others, set Himself up as a false God, because He accepted the worship of others?
I ask because we know that the Jews were told not to worship any other gods and yet it is plain to see that Jews in the NT did worship Jesus, and He accepted their worship. All the while Peter who was the instrument used to heal others, did not accept the worship of others, though they did try to.

On another note: I'm just curious who do you think was being spoken of in Isaiah 9:6? Was it Yeshua or someone who previously appeared or one who has yet to appear?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

Sorry I'm late but I've had a busy schedule this week and just saw this last night. I hope this answers your question.

Many Christians have worshiped Jesus over the centuries but Jesus never said to worship him or even encouraged it.

In fact it seems he said the opposite: In Matthew 4:10 he said "You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.”Jesus was quoting the Old Testament where instead of using the word Lord it says Yaweh/Jehovah which is not Jesus.

Remember Jesus said that his Heavenly Father was "the only true God" in John 17:3 and in John 20:17 "I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God." Does God have a God? Only if you are Mormon.

There are some places where translators used the word worship such as in Matthew 14:33 it says "Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, “In truth Thou art the Son of God.” Notice the did not say God the Son. Then in Matthew 28:9 the same word was used again. Mat. 28:17 the same word, Luke 24:52 same word, John 9:38 same word, Hebrews 1:6 same word.

Strongs says the word translated to worship in these verses (προσκυνέω proskynéō, pros-koo-neh'-o) literally means from G4314 and a probable derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):—worship. So it sort of depends on what you want it to mean I guess.

The wording of John 9:6 - Apparently "Mighty God, Everylasting Father and Prince of Peace are not in the oldest manuscripts.

The oldest Jewish translation of Isaiah 9:6[5], found in the Septuagint, understands all the names as referring to the king, rendering this verse into Greek as follows: “For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel [Megalē hē archē]: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.” As translated by Sir Lancelot C. L. Brenton, The Septuagint with Apocrypha: Greek and English in 1844. (repr., Peabody, Mass.: Hendrickson, 1986), 844.

I have several other translations from the Septuagint which all read about the same, with no mention of Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of peace, etc. If you care to see them let me know.

 

[Searchingtoo]

Isaiah 43:11 I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no saviour.
12 I declared and saved and proclaimed, when there was no strange god among you; and you are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and I am God.

1John 4:14 And we have beheld and witness that the Father hath sent the Son as Saviour of the world.
15 Whoso shall confess that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God abideth in him, and he in God.

This claim does however choose to ignore some very key facts. God has raised up numerous human Saviors. The Hebrew word used in all the following quotations of Scripture is the exact same word translated as "Savior" at Isaiah 43:11.

When the sons of Israel cried to the LORD, the LORD raised up a Savior for the sons of Israel to save them, Othniel the son of Kenaz. Judges 3:9

But when the sons of Israel cried to the LORD, the LORD raised up a Savior for them, Ehud the son of Gera, the Benjaminite. Judges 3:15

Then Jehoahaz besought the Lord, and the Lord hearkened to him; for he saw the oppression of Israel, how the king of Syria oppressed them. Therefore the Lord gave Israel a Savior, so that they escaped from the hand of the Syrians. 2 Kings 13:4-5

Therefore You delivered them into the hand of their oppressors who oppressed them, But when they cried to You in the time of their distress, You heard from heaven, and according to Your great compassion You gave them Saviors who saved them from the hand of their oppressors. Nehemiah 9:27

The Saviors will ascend Mount Zion to judge the mountain of Esau, and the kingdom will be the LORD'S. Obadiah 1:21

Trinitarians are not appreciating the fact that their argument falls flat by these passages. To claim that Isaiah 43:11 means that there is no other Savior but YAHWEH acting alone to save creates a contradictory inconsistency. It also matters not what Yahweh was saving them from. The Trinitarian intepretation would then exclude all these Saviors which God raised up and their argument then contradicts Scripture. However, in the above verses we see that it was indeed God who raised up these Saviors. In this way, there is no Savior but Yahweh because it was Yahweh who raised them up. He is the one who raises up these Saviors. God is the one responsible for providing the salvations in view in the above passages. Each of these Saviors are Yahweh's Saviors and in this way there is no Savior besides Yahweh.

 

[Garee]

Dear Garee,
I see government as meaning rule, dominion, which is the purpose of government.

As far as your question "on whose shoulder?" that is what I was asking concerning Isaiah 9:6 to Searchingtoo, and Jonathan_Gale, and now it appears you as well.

Was it Yeshua or someone who previously appeared or one who has yet to appear?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

Thanks.

I would think the shoulder (strength) is used to represent unseen presence of God as clouds . Or called the bosom of Abraham . The cloud of witness or cloud of appearing. .

Hebrews 12:1-3King James Version12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, (the word of God) let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

It can be seen according to the parable below . Parables hide the light of truth from one while revealing it to another.

Exodus 13:21 -22And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night: He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.

Psalm 68:34 Ascribe ye strength unto God: his excellency is over Israel, and his strength is in the clouds. . . . . . . .

The government of God inspired from above not earthly of the devil.

Isaiah 29:4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

The strength of the cloud the government of God..

 

[Waggles]

What is the name of God the Father?
by Luke Wayne | Nov 1, 2016

The scriptures do not give us a personal name that belongs distinctly to God the Father.
In fact, the only person in the Trinity who is given a distinct personal name is God the Son, whose name is Jesus [Yeshua].
Even this name is given to Him specifically because of the incarnation. God the Son was not called Jesus until He came in the flesh as the promised Messiah.
Neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit are given distinct, personal names.

Some have argued that the Divine Name, YHWH is the name of the Father.
This name, however, is not exclusively the Father’s name. It is the name of the Triune God as a whole.
The Father is called YHWH in places like Psalm 110:1
“The LORD [YHWH] says to my Lord [Adoni]: ‘Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.'”

Hebrews 1:13 explains this verse as the Father (the LORD, or YHWH) speaking to the Son (the Lord, Adoni, or master).
So the author of Hebrews plainly identifies the Father as YHWH. Yet, when Hebrews 1:10-12 quotes Psalm 102:25-27, it says the Psalm is talking about Jesus.
The Psalm is clearly talking about YHWH. Jesus, therefore, is also YHWH.
Hebrews 10:15-16 quotes Jeremiah 31:33 as being a direct quote from the Holy Spirit. It is, in fact, a direct quote from YHWH.
So the Holy Spirit is also YHWH.
Just looking at the book of Hebrews alone, we can see that YHWH is the name of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. Thus, YHWH is the name of the Triune God.

The Father does have titles used only of Him, like “The Ancient of Days” in Daniel 7.
Often in the New Testament, the Father is simply called “God” while Jesus is called “the Lord,” though this is a general principle rather than a strict rule.
The Father is certainly called “the Lord” on occasion (such as Mark 13:20), and Jesus is called “God” in several passages (such as Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1).
Ultimately one must pay careful attention to the context.

In the end, there is one God who exists in three persons, and those three persons share the one divine name of YHWH.
That is the name of the Father, but it is also the name of the Son and the Holy Spirit. Three persons, but one God with one Holy Name.
The Father, therefore, is not given a separate personal name.

What is the name of God the Father? | Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

Explore Christian Apologetics, theology, and critical answers to today's questions about God, the Bible, and the Christian faith at Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry.

carm.org

 

[Waggles]

God is the one responsible for providing the salvations in view in the above passages. Each of these Saviors are Yahweh's Saviors and in this way there is no Savior besides Yahweh.

That is one interpretation - opinion.
However - Isaiah 43:11 I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no saviour - is not referring to others who may have saved Israel at other specific times.
The verse clearly claims that YHWH is the only saviour and no one else.
Again this is consistent with the NT which clearly states that Christ Jesus is our only Saviour and Redeemer.

 

[Curtis]

Many Christians have worshiped Jesus over the centuries but Jesus never said to worship him or even encouraged it.

Mat 2:10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceedingly great joy.
Mat 2:11 And when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him.


Mat 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and caught him, and said to him, "O you of little faith, why did you doubt?"
Mat 14:32 And when they got into the boat, the wind ceased.
Mat 14:33 Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, "Truly You are the Son of God."

Mat 28:8 So they went out quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to bring His disciples word.
Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, "Rejoice!" So they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him.

Joh 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing."
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

 

[Christ4Ever]

Sorry I'm late but I've had a busy schedule this week and just saw this last night. I hope this answers your question.

Many Christians have worshiped Jesus over the centuries but Jesus never said to worship him or even encouraged it.

In fact it seems he said the opposite: In Matthew 4:10 he said "You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.”Jesus was quoting the Old Testament where instead of using the word Lord it says Yaweh/Jehovah which is not Jesus.

Remember Jesus said that his Heavenly Father was "the only true God" in John 17:3 and in John 20:17 "I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God." Does God have a God? Only if you are Mormon.

There are some places where translators used the word worship such as in Matthew 14:33 it says "Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, “In truth Thou art the Son of God.” Notice the did not say God the Son. Then in Matthew 28:9 the same word was used again. Mat. 28:17 the same word, Luke 24:52 same word, John 9:38 same word, Hebrews 1:6 same word.

Strongs says the word translated to worship in these verses (προσκυνέω proskynéō, pros-koo-neh'-o) literally means from G4314 and a probable derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):—worship. So it sort of depends on what you want it to mean I guess.

The wording of John 9:6 - Apparently "Mighty God, Everylasting Father and Prince of Peace are not in the oldest manuscripts.

The oldest Jewish translation of Isaiah 9:6[5], found in the Septuagint, understands all the names as referring to the king, rendering this verse into Greek as follows: “For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel [Megalē hē archē]: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.” As translated by Sir Lancelot C. L. Brenton, The Septuagint with Apocrypha: Greek and English in 1844. (repr., Peabody, Mass.: Hendrickson, 1986), 844.

I have several other translations from the Septuagint which all read about the same, with no mention of Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of peace, etc. If you care to see them let me know.

Dear Searchingtoo,

We can play the strongs if you desire. How about g4352? Need to know the verses that are used for this to show Worship as well, and includes Jesus, Christ within its definition?
The point being and still stands even after your writing, that only God should be worshipped, yet Jesus was worshipped, and accepted the worship accorded to Him that belonged to God alone. To a Jew and if Jesus was only a man, this would be unacceptable to do, and would put into question His righteousness. Yet, it was done and accepted!

On Isaiah 9:6, you clearly understood what was being said. You can argue manuscripts, all you want, because I'm sure you don't only use the Septuagint! So, you will view it by the Manuscripts that affirm your doctrine, and I will use the ones that affirm my doctrine to be true. I am sure I will not convince you, and you won't convince me.

So, since you didn't actually answer my question posed to you, I will assume from your reply that you believe that these verses are speaking of Yeshua/Jesus.

Note: Since the site is Trinitarian, it might be best that you just move on to another site that is more accommodating to the doctrine you hold in this. That is if you can't help yourself in continuing on this line of promoting the doctrine you believe to be true.

Know that I end this as both a member, and a moderator.
As a member I would allow you to continue sprouting what you believe to be true, but as a moderator I must adhere to the standards in place for Talk Jesus.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
I would normally end this with YBIC, but clearly your Jesus is not my Jesus, so I would not insult you in calling you something you are not.
Nick
Moderator
\o/
<><
P.S. You can move on or let me know and I can ban you. The choice is yours. Oh, if for whatever reason you'd like to discuss this further, then you are welcome to PM me, but please don't discuss this in open forum. For it is not open for debate. Thank-you.

 

[Searchingtoo]

What is the name of God the Father?
by Luke Wayne | Nov 1, 2016

The scriptures do not give us a personal name that belongs distinctly to God the Father.
In fact, the only person in the Trinity who is given a distinct personal name is God the Son, whose name is Jesus [Yeshua].
Even this name is given to Him specifically because of the incarnation. God the Son was not called Jesus until He came in the flesh as the promised Messiah.
Neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit are given distinct, personal names.

Some have argued that the Divine Name, YHWH is the name of the Father.
This name, however, is not exclusively the Father’s name. It is the name of the Triune God as a whole.
The Father is called YHWH in places like Psalm 110:1
“The LORD [YHWH] says to my Lord [Adoni]: ‘Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.'”

Hebrews 1:13 explains this verse as the Father (the LORD, or YHWH) speaking to the Son (the Lord, Adoni, or master).
So the author of Hebrews plainly identifies the Father as YHWH. Yet, when Hebrews 1:10-12 quotes Psalm 102:25-27, it says the Psalm is talking about Jesus.
The Psalm is clearly talking about YHWH. Jesus, therefore, is also YHWH.
Hebrews 10:15-16 quotes Jeremiah 31:33 as being a direct quote from the Holy Spirit. It is, in fact, a direct quote from YHWH.
So the Holy Spirit is also YHWH.
Just looking at the book of Hebrews alone, we can see that YHWH is the name of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. Thus, YHWH is the name of the Triune God.

The Father does have titles used only of Him, like “The Ancient of Days” in Daniel 7.
Often in the New Testament, the Father is simply called “God” while Jesus is called “the Lord,” though this is a general principle rather than a strict rule.
The Father is certainly called “the Lord” on occasion (such as Mark 13:20), and Jesus is called “God” in several passages (such as Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1).
Ultimately one must pay careful attention to the context.

In the end, there is one God who exists in three persons, and those three persons share the one divine name of YHWH.
That is the name of the Father, but it is also the name of the Son and the Holy Spirit. Three persons, but one God with one Holy Name.
The Father, therefore, is not given a separate personal name.

What is the name of God the Father? | Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

Explore Christian Apologetics, theology, and critical answers to today's questions about God, the Bible, and the Christian faith at Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry.

carm.org

Dear Searchingtoo,

We can play the strongs if you desire. How about g4352? Need to know the verses that are used for this to show Worship as well, and includes Jesus, Christ within its definition?
The point being and still stands even after your writing, that only God should be worshipped, yet Jesus was worshipped, and accepted the worship accorded to Him that belonged to God alone. To a Jew and if Jesus was only a man, this would be unacceptable to do, and would put into question His righteousness. Yet, it was done and accepted!

On Isaiah 9:6, you clearly understood what was being said. You can argue manuscripts, all you want, because I'm sure you don't only use the Septuagint! So, you will view it by the Manuscripts that affirm your doctrine, and I will use the ones that affirm my doctrine to be true. I am sure I will not convince you, and you won't convince me.

So, since you didn't actually answer my question posed to you, I will assume from your reply that you believe that these verses are speaking of Yeshua/Jesus.

Note: Since the site is Trinitarian, it might be best that you just move on to another site that is more accommodating to the doctrine you hold in this. That is if you can't help yourself in continuing on this line of promoting the doctrine you believe to be true.

Know that I end this as both a member, and a moderator.
As a member I would allow you to continue sprouting what you believe to be true, but as a moderator I must adhere to the standards in place for Talk Jesus.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
I would normally end this with YBIC, but clearly your Jesus is not my Jesus, so I would not insult you in calling you something you are not.
Nick
Moderator
\o/
<><
P.S. You can move on or let me know and I can ban you. The choice is yours. Oh, if for whatever reason you'd like to discuss this further, then you are welcome to PM me, but please don't discuss this in open forum. For it is not open for debate. Thank-you.

Too bad.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Dear Jonathan_Gale,
God as an all consuming fire cannot be worshipped? Scared of God they were? Of course! That is not so surprising, but not worship? You have to get rid of a lot of the OT that makes reference to letting the people of Israeli know that they should only Worship God, the "all consuming fire" you make reference to. I'm sure you don't need references in the OT on Worshipping God, which is why I'm curious about the opening to your second sentence.

That is the obvious conclusion based on Deut. 18:16. Israelites built the tabernacle under God's direct instruction and worshipped him properly. Before that, in their mind God was a golden calf, and then God as an all consuming fire scared them off, I don't see either as proper worship. And if you ask what I mean by "proper worship", go to Gen. 4, where Abel worshipped God properly, Cain worshipped God improperly.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

As far as your opening sentence. You can't love if you don't know what love is, so you are correct in a way but only in part. However, people can worship, without the knowledge of love and have done, so and still do. Is their worship directed to whom it should be? Probably not in most cases, which is why God tried many times over to redirect Israeli back to Him and only Him.

"Love" and "worship" themselves doen't mean anything, you dont love "love", you don't worship "worship", that's unintelligent jibberish. What matters is the object which you love and worship. If you don't know what that is, then you're doomed to love and worship a golden calf like the Israelites did.

 

[Curtis]

Rom 12:1 And so, dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to give your bodies to God because of all he has done for you. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice—the kind he will find acceptable. This is truly the way to worship him. (NLT)

 

[Searchingtoo]

Too bad.

Hey Nick, can you direct me to the rules or the standards in place. I could not find what you are talking about and asked quite a while back if someone could tell me where they are but got no reply. I looked at the terms and rules but saw nothing that said this was a Trinity site or that the trinity could not be discussed and there has been plenty of it going on by others. Looks like this might be what you're talking about (We may remove or modify any Content submitted at any time, with or without cause) In other words anything you don't agree with. Just asking. I'm searching as my name suggests. Are you against that? Thanks.