Is it Okay to Condemn Sinners?

[bdavidc]

Doesn`t it matter HOW one is doing it?
Are you gonna throw a hard ball or are you gonna try to actually reach that person?
To stand screaming you`re a sinner, you`re going to hell! Will never change anything. That person will not have a change of heart because of that. Just imagine, if it was the opposite, if you were the one that was shouted that. You would not listen or change, would you. No.
The point is not to scream or shout, or come with a statement about their sin. The point is really to REACH that person. To find out the deeper goings and to assist, only then can we facilitate change. They might chose not to correct. But we have much bigger chance.
And this is what the bible says. Go to your brother. if he listens, you have won your brother. If he doesn`t listen, take one or two with you. Probably a pastor of sorts. Or close family member or something like that. And if he does not listen then, tell it to the congregation and if then not listen don`t have anything to do with him, but show love still so his soul can be saved.
That is the bible. Nothing about shouting you`re a sinner, you`re going to hell and blast it.
Does`nt change anything. (and no, twistie this was not to you I believe you have acted correctly, I just prefer not to argue especially as I don`t have all information background)
Sure there will always be those that are not ready to come back or take long time or years. We don`t know that. This is why we have to still show love. Just think about if it was you.
I would be more interested in the story and background so I could work with them there. One doesn`t arrive to ungodly conclusion out of the blue. Something usually happens. If its teaching or worse. So I would say it is more about what we can do for that person to help them.
Think about Jesus. He said to the woman about to be stoned, go, and sin no more, neither I condemn you. And He alway say sin no more. Then we have the reality of demons and their influence on our thoughts and actions we can`t forget that either. There is so many dimensions to this. There are ways to discuss sin that reach beneath the surface other than a straight this is sin you are a sinner. I would say we have to reach deeper to reach that person because ultimately what else is gonna do it.

I did not say we should stand screaming at people, “You’re going to hell.” That is not what I said. The point was whether Christians may plainly tell someone that something is sin when God has already called it sin.

Matthew 18:15-17 is not instructions for evangelizing unbelievers. Jesus specifically says, “if thy brother shall trespass against thee” ~Matthew 18:15. That passage concerns dealing with sin among those professing to be brethren. It does not mean we must privately investigate an unbeliever’s background before we can tell them what God says about their sin.

Sometimes Scripture is very direct. Jesus said, “except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish” ~Luke 13:3. Paul told the Athenians that God “commandeth all men every where to repent” because He “hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness” ~Acts 17:30-31. That is a direct warning about sin, repentance, and judgment.

We also need to be careful about blaming ungodly conclusions or sinful behavior on demons. Scripture places responsibility on the sinner. Jesus said, “from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts” and then listed adultery, fornication, murder, theft, pride and other sins ~Mark 7:21-23. James says a man is tempted “when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed” ~James 1:14.

And this is where we need to be careful about what we call love. It is not loving to watch someone remain in sin and say nothing while they are headed toward judgment. If we truly care about them, we will warn them and point them to Christ. Scripture says, “Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men” ~2 Corinthians 5:11.

Love does not mean approving sin, avoiding uncomfortable truth, or being afraid to warn someone. Real love tells the truth because eternity matters. If someone is lost, the loving thing is not to leave them comfortable in their sin. It is to tell them about sin, repentance, judgment, and salvation through Jesus Christ while there is still time.

The goal is not merely to “facilitate change.” A lost sinner does not just need behavioral change or someone to understand his background. He needs to be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ. That begins with telling the truth about sin, repentance, judgment, and the Savior.

We should speak truth without cruelty or self-righteousness, but we should still speak it plainly. Calling sin what God calls sin is not hatred. Refusing to warn someone because the truth might offend them is not love.

 

[bdavidc]

Also many have come to God when dealt with properly and shown love, then Gods love have reached them, even if they were something they did not disclose or even a satanist or something. I had a satanist go to church and reach God because he said how I treated him vs what his usual experience was in church.

This is where I disagree. Scripture never presents confronting sin as a “very very last resort.” Jesus often dealt with the spiritual problem directly.

Look at the rich young ruler. Mark specifically says, “Then Jesus beholding him loved him” ~Mark 10:21. What did that love cause Jesus to do? He immediately exposed the very thing ruling the man’s heart: “One thing thou lackest.” Jesus loved him enough to put His finger directly on the idol that was keeping him from following Christ.

The same happened with the woman at the well. Jesus did not spend weeks building a relationship before addressing her life. He told her, “thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband” ~John 4:18. He brought her sin into the light because He was leading her to the truth about Himself.

So I would not say, “Jesus would bring cookies and flowers first, and only confront sin after everything else failed.” Scripture does not show us that pattern. Acts of kindness are fine, but we cannot create an evangelism method from what we imagine Jesus might do. We have to look at what He actually did.

And your experience with the satanist may have opened a door for conversation, but an experience cannot establish the biblical method. Jesus could be tremendously compassionate and at the same time immediately confront the very thing separating a person from God.

That is what biblical love looks like. Jesus did not choose between love and truth. He loved people enough to tell them the truth.

 

[Hannah1]

I did NOT say to not confront sin. I did say however, HOW we do it makes a difference, as in not scream you`re a sinner you`re going to hell! compared to actually having a conversation with the person, and those close.
Jesus did not shout
it is not black and white. shouting and screaming does not help someone. But hey, I see this is happening, did you know this is going to destroy you? and show how, and say sin yes and asking and having a communication, trying to HELP

 

[Hannah1]

Jesus say treat others as you would like to be treated. If you were the one in deep sin and had lots of problems, would YOU like to be shouted at that what you were doing is sin and treated unlovingly? I don`t think so

 

[Hannah1]

But if someone came to you saying, I see you are deep in this, and we both know its a sin, and asking them how it happened and about their life, their problems and actually put in place a program for them to help them. And showing them love and support. You HAVE pointed out the sin, but you have made a deeper effort. screaming leads nowhere I guarantee you

 

[Hannah1]

Jesus went in to the sinners and eat with them i.e communicated with them trying to help deeper. whilst the pharisees stood outside upset because he eat with a sinner and had anything to do with them while shouting at them they are a sinner and got upset with GOD do you see the point

 

[Hannah1]

Also if you take a reach them communicate approach they will be open to you on more than one occasion meaning you can make a deeper impact

 

[Hannah1]

As well the bible say IF THEY DON`T LISTEN TO YOU and you have tried to talk to them and brought 2 more with you tell congregation and if not THEN
BUT it also say keep showing them love, so you save their soul.
Think a moment about the lost son. The Father didn`t shout there. He didn`t even shout when he went. He would have done everything to try to rescue him, i .e talk to him. We don`t know if he sent people to talk to him but don`t think so as he didn`t know where he was we assume from the text. But I can`t imagine he would not tried to talk to him if it was that he knew.
God sends US to help them to talk to them not by pushing them away or feel worse,you see we can tell them they are on the road to destruction in a way that is not shouting but helping and OPEN UP for communication how else are we going to help them.

 

[Hannah1]

You can tell truth without throwing hard curve balls on them. It is an art however

 

[Hannah1]

If we are in this to sit and feel righteous and not helping others just shouting at them our motives are more black than we believe. I believe.

 

[bdavidc]

We are never to condemn someone else for being a sinner, because we ourselves are also sinners. Many Christians have a bad habit of condemning other people, which both Jesus and the NT are clearly against doing. Within the four narratives of Jesus, there is not a single instance of Jesus condemning anyone, other than religious hypocrites, whom he roundly and soundly condemned, right to their face and even while eating at one's home.

"Judge not that you be not judged." -- Jesus

"For God did not send his son into the world so that he might judge the people, but that the people through him, might be saved." --John 3:17, corrected to the Greek.

"Therefore, you are inexcusable, O one, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things." --Romans 2:1, the conclusion of Romans one that should be at the end of chapter one.

Consider that Jesus did not condemn either the woman found in the act of adultery or the woman at the well who had 5 husbands and was living with a man who was not her husband.

Many Christians are fond of quoting John 3:16, while ignoring John 3:17, which is part of the same overall statement by Jesus.

The word "judge" in these instances above appears to be carried over from 16th Century English, meaning "condemn" in modern English. It does not refer to discerning between what is evil and what is good. Discerning is not the same as condemning someone else.

Romans 2:1 does not teach that Christians are never to judge sin or warn sinners. Paul is condemning hypocritical judgment, where someone condemns another while practicing the same things himself. In the very next verse Paul says, “But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things” (Romans 2:2).

The same is true of Matthew 7. Jesus did not stop at “Judge not.” He went on to say, “first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye” (Matthew 7:5). Jesus also said plainly, “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment” (John 7:24).

And John 3:17 cannot be separated from John 3:18: “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already.” Christ's first coming was to save, but that certainly does not mean He never pronounced judgment upon sinners. Jesus warned, “if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins” (John 8:24), and, “except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3).

Jesus did not excuse the woman caught in adultery either. He told her, “go, and sin no more” (John 8:11). He identified the Samaritan woman's sinful situation plainly in John 4:17-18. Not condemning someone to final judgment ourselves is not the same thing as refusing to call sin what God calls sin.

In fact, Christians are specifically commanded to judge within the church: “Do not ye judge them that are within?” (1 Corinthians 5:12). Paul then says, “Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person” (v.13).

With that, we know Christians are forbidden from self-righteous, hypocritical judgment. But the idea that Christians should never judge conduct, identify sin, expose false teaching, or warn sinners of God's judgment is simply not what the New Testament teaches.

 

[Hannah1]

why do you fail to see that I did NOT say that we should never judge sin or warn about sin
I did say it matters HOW we do it, throw a curveball or actually have a conversation with empathy!

 

[Hannah1]

Ask yourself does a curve ball work or do we win more souls by showing empathy and care whilst TALKING about it

 

[Hannah1]

If we don`t want to help them out over shouting and screaming sin at them, we are making an error and not showing the love Jesus told us to. We DON`T HAVE TO shout and scream, if they know the sin, we will approach it from there, but WITH LOVE and EMPATHY. And conversation. Same if they don`t know. bam you are a sinner hell bam does not work.

 

[Hannah1]

Christians who focus on pointing out sin instead of showing empathy often reflect a legalistic approach that prioritises rules instead over relational grace
why this happens
fear of compromise
some believers worry that showing empathy or understanding might look like agreeing with or encouraging sinful behaviour
focus on correction
they may view their primary duty as moral warning rather than relationship-building
cultural conditioning
certain religious environments reward sharp moral critiques to people over gentle, patient listening
what the bible teaches about empathy
the example of Jesus
Jesus wept with the grieving, sat with the outcasts, and listened to people before or alongside addressing their actions
self examination
Jesus taught to look at their own faults first, using the famous example of removing the "log" from ones own eye before helping a neighbour with a "speck"(Matthew 7:3-5)
Love as the foundation
the new testament emphasises that correction without love and patience is meaningless and unhelpful(1 Corinthians 13:1)
the impact of skipping empathy
alienation
people feel judged rather than loved, which often pushes them away from faith communities
shame over healing
harsh pointing out of sin creates shame and defensiveness, whereas empathy creates a safe space for genuine reflection and growth

 

[Hannah1]

And no, if we know where we stand, we don`t have to worry about compromising sin, or being dragged with it. we can show empathy and care and listen and actually try to help at the same time we talk about sin. But throwing a curve ball never work

 

[bdavidc]

@Hannah1, I think we are talking past each other because you keep coming back to shouting and screaming at sinners, and I have never advocated that. I have already said we should speak the truth without cruelty or self-righteousness. So there really is no disagreement between us about whether Christians should be loving, patient, compassionate, willing to listen, and willing to help someone.

Where we disagree is when that becomes the standard for when and how plainly the truth may be spoken.

You said Christians who focus on pointing out sin rather than empathy are often being legalistic, and that harshly pointing out sin creates shame while empathy creates a safe place for reflection. But Scripture does not give us that rule. Sometimes hearing the truth about our sin is supposed to hurt. Paul wrote, “godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation” ~2 Corinthians 7:10. Proverbs even says, “Faithful are the wounds of a friend” ~Proverbs 27:6.

Look at Pentecost. Peter did not first learn everyone’s background or establish a long relationship with them. He told them plainly, “ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain” Jesus ~Acts 2:23. Later he said, “God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ” ~Acts 2:36. What happened? “They were pricked in their heart” and asked what they should do ~Acts 2:37. Peter answered, “Repent” ~Acts 2:38.

That was not unloving. The truth wounded them because they needed to see their guilt before God.

And 1 Corinthians 13 actually says love “rejoiceth in the truth” ~1 Corinthians 13:6. Biblical love does not require us to soften the truth until the sinner is comfortable hearing it. Sometimes a conversation may be gentle and lengthy. Sometimes the biblical warning may need to be very direct. Scripture shows both.

I also don't believe we “win more souls” because we discover the right conversational technique. “The gospel of Christ” is “the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth” ~Romans 1:16. Paul said, “I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase” ~1 Corinthians 3:6. We should certainly remove needless rudeness and personal arrogance, but we cannot improve God's gospel by making the sinner's comfort the measure of whether we delivered it properly.

So yes, listen. Show compassion. Help people where you can. Sit with them, feed them, pray for them, and treat them as you would want to be treated. I have no argument with any of that.

But when sin needs to be called sin, call it sin. When repentance needs to be preached, preach repentance. When judgment needs to be warned about, warn about judgment. And when Christ needs to be proclaimed as the only Savior, do not bury that under endless relationship-building.

That is not choosing truth instead of love. According to Scripture, telling the truth is part of loving them.

 

[Hannah1]

what is the need to shout and scream and be harsh can`t people point out sin without that.
Jesus never did those things either
you can tell the truth calmly and lovingly

 

[Hannah1]

That is not taking away from sin or catering to it. Far from it. It is about humanity

 

[Hannah1]

I do not see a point in being harsh, direct ( in a abrupt manner like making the other feel shame or feel bad regarding sin. There is no point at all. Noone ever turns because someone does that they actually go the opposite way. And also, if someone do not want to change no harsh direct words that make them feel worse is going to steer them away, in that state they are not receptible for anything and especially not that, but will confirm them in that they are right. It is therefore never justified. Also it is cruel, without empathy. why can`t one just say hey do you know that there is bad for you have you thought about that? what do you think and reason with them instead, and if they say no warn them.