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Trinitarian Evidence All False

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I once had a couple Jehovahs witnesses visit and they agreed the Bible teaches things produces after their own kind. When I asked them what this biblical truth would make the only begotten Son of God , they sat there with a blank stare, then tried to weasel their way out of the plain truth.
 
pekoe said:
I once had a couple Jehovahs witnesses visit and they agreed the Bible teaches things produces after their own kind. When I asked them what this biblical truth would make the only begotten Son of God , they sat there with a blank stare, then tried to weasel their way out of the plain truth.
Click to expand...

I said
Ok what is that plain truth you told them?
 
pekoe said:
That you are what your parents are. That's why Jesus must be both God and Man. No way around it bro.
Click to expand...

I said
lol I see. That intellectual knowledge that man is so proud of. So your calling Jesus a liar.

John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)
 
Squeaky said:
I said
That bitter envy is going to destroy you if you don't get a handle on it.
Click to expand...

  • That is the second time you mentioned envy to me, is that you speaking or did the Holy Spirit tell you to tell me that?
  • I am not sure where you come up with that...envy of what or whom:?
  • Oh, I sure hope you are not thinking , my envy is of you. If so, I hate to bust your bubble but, not in your wildest dreams would I ever envy a non-Christian, especiall you!!!!
 
Squeaky said:
I said
lol I see. That intellectual knowledge that man is so proud of.
Click to expand...
Has nothing to do with any type of pride. Fact is, in saying Jesus is "begotten of God", it means He is God.And...have you noticed instead of dealing with this fact, you merely questioned whether I was calling Jesus a liar by quoting scripture which could indicate Jesus isn't God, instead of rethinking the scripture you cited in light of not being able to answer my objection? But unlike you, I will answer your point.

So your calling Jesus a liar.
Click to expand...
No Squeaky. I simply see scripture differently than you do.

John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)
Click to expand...
why does Jesus say we must know God and Jesus Christ ? Because God redeems us to Himself by Himself:

"For I know that my Redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:" Jb.19:25

Job said his Redeemer "liveth." He meant, God. In saying his Redeemer would stand on earth, he meant Jesus:


"For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called." Is.54:5

Once you consider that "thy Husband" means God's people are betrothed to Him, you'll understand that a wedding between God and His people is going to take place...and we both know it's called the marriage supper of the Lamb.

The incarnation of God caused Him to be lower than the angels. In denying Jesus is God, you demean the sacrifice of God.
 
RJ said:
  • That is the second time you mentioned envy to me, is that you speaking or did the Holy Spirit tell you to tell me that?
  • I am not sure where you come up with that...envy of what or whom:?
  • Oh, I sure hope you are not thinking , my envy is of you. If so, I hate to bust your bubble but, not in your wildest dreams would I ever envy a non-Christian, especiall you!!!!
Click to expand...

I said
The Holy Spirit told me.

Matt 27:17-18
17 Therefore, when they had gathered together, Pilate said to them, "Whom do you want me to release to you? Barabbas, or Jesus who is called Christ?"
18 For he knew that they had handed Him over because of envy.
(NKJ)
 
pekoe said:
Has nothing to do with any type of pride. Fact is, in saying Jesus is "begotten of God", it means He is God.And...have you noticed instead of dealing with this fact, you merely questioned whether I was calling Jesus a liar by quoting scripture which could indicate Jesus isn't God, instead of rethinking the scripture you cited in light of not being able to answer my objection? But unlike you, I will answer your point.


No Squeaky. I simply see scripture differently than you do.

why does Jesus say we must know God and Jesus Christ ? Because God redeems us to Himself by Himself:

"For I know that my Redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:" Jb.19:25

Job said his Redeemer "liveth." He meant, God. In saying his Redeemer would stand on earth, he meant Jesus:


"For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called." Is.54:5

Once you consider that "thy Husband" means God's people are betrothed to Him, you'll understand that a wedding between God and His people is going to take place...and we both know it's called the marriage supper of the Lamb.

The incarnation of God caused Him to be lower than the angels. In denying Jesus is God, you demean the sacrifice of God.
Click to expand...

I said
The Wedding
God had set up a wedding for His Son Jesus. When Jesus was coming down to earth. The Jews refused to come to the wedding.
Matt 22:2-14
2 "The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son,
3 "and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come.
4 "Again, he sent out other servants, saying, 'Tell those who are invited, "See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding."'
5 "But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business.
6 "And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them.
7 "But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 "Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.
9 'Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.'
10 "So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11 "But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment.
12 "So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless.
13 "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
(NKJ)
So the wedding was put off. Because it had no guests. So Jesus had no one to marry. So God called the Gentiles and they came. And God decided Jacob is the yourger son. And the Jews are Esau. And God let everyone know He will have mercy on whom He wills and whom He wills He hardens. But what He is doing is because the Jews rejected the wedding. He could have destroyed all the Jews. But He had compassion on them.
Rom 9:11-24
11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger."
13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth."
18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?"
20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"
21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
(NKJ)
That was when God opened the door to anyone who wanted to come to the wedding. He called all, but He chose a few to promote His message. But the Jews still misused the old testament law. They used it on others instead of themselves.
Rom 9:25-33
25 As He says also in Hosea: "I will call them My people, who were not My people, and her beloved, who was not beloved."
26 "And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' there they shall be called sons of the living God."
27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, the remnant will be saved.
28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness, because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth."
29 And as Isaiah said before: "Unless the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we would have become like Sodom, and we would have been made like Gomorrah."
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith;
31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.
33 As it is written: "Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, and whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
Rev 21:1-22:9
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
The Gentiles with the help of the Holy Spirit used Gods new laws on themselves, And forgave others. Now God has set up a new wedding. Between Jesus and the new Jerusalem. And we just have to wait to see who shows up.
 
Squeaky said:
I said
The Holy Spirit told me.

Matt 27:17-18
17 Therefore, when they had gathered together, Pilate said to them, "Whom do you want me to release to you? Barabbas, or Jesus who is called Christ?"
18 For he knew that they had handed Him over because of envy.
(NKJ)
Click to expand...

  • Ah, yes, so it was, according to you, the Holy Spirit who told you to call me, me personally, envious?
  • Wow, the Holy Spirit picked me out personally. And I thought I was a nobody! lol
  • I tell you what, there isn't anything holy that is talking to you, if it is a spirit, it is Satanic. because you deny Jesus's Diety!
  • And I am mighty happy that you and Satan are singling me out. I must be doing something right.
  • I love Jesus and know he is God and neither you or Satin do!!
 
Last edited:
Travis said:
What does satin have to do with this? Is someone weaving something?

:smiley:
Click to expand...

  • I started that because Sqeaky says that the Holy Spirit guides and talks to him.
  • But, at the same time, Squeaky denies Jesus as being God.
  • I say it is not the Holy Spirit that guides Squeaky but it is Satin who guides him because Satin denies Jesus's diety also.
 
Squeaky said:
I said
The Wedding
God had set up a wedding for His Son Jesus. When Jesus was coming down to earth. The Jews refused to come to the wedding.
Matt 22:2-14
2 "The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son,
3 "and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come.
4 "Again, he sent out other servants, saying, 'Tell those who are invited, "See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding."'
5 "But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business.
6 "And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them.
7 "But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 "Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.
9 'Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.'
10 "So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11 "But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment.
12 "So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless.
13 "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
(NKJ)
So the wedding was put off. Because it had no guests. So Jesus had no one to marry. So God called the Gentiles and they came. And God decided Jacob is the yourger son. And the Jews are Esau. And God let everyone know He will have mercy on whom He wills and whom He wills He hardens. But what He is doing is because the Jews rejected the wedding. He could have destroyed all the Jews. But He had compassion on them.
Rom 9:11-24
11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger."
13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth."
18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?"
20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"
21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
(NKJ)
That was when God opened the door to anyone who wanted to come to the wedding. He called all, but He chose a few to promote His message. But the Jews still misused the old testament law. They used it on others instead of themselves.
Rom 9:25-33
25 As He says also in Hosea: "I will call them My people, who were not My people, and her beloved, who was not beloved."
26 "And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' there they shall be called sons of the living God."
27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, the remnant will be saved.
28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness, because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth."
29 And as Isaiah said before: "Unless the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we would have become like Sodom, and we would have been made like Gomorrah."
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith;
31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.
33 As it is written: "Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, and whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
Rev 21:1-22:9
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
The Gentiles with the help of the Holy Spirit used Gods new laws on themselves, And forgave others. Now God has set up a new wedding. Between Jesus and the new Jerusalem. And we just have to wait to see who shows up.
Click to expand...
Brother, forget about Jews/gentiles and start thinking believers/unbelievers.

The wedding feast wasn't postponed, because the marriage between God and His people wasn't going to take place without the OT saints. Believing gentiles have entered into the marriage covenant between God and His people, the believing Jews. There is only one marriage between God and His people (Believing Jews and gentiles):

"And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready." Re.19:6-7

The wedding between the Lamb and believers is a marriage between God and His people. Jesus is God.
 
RJ said:
  • I started that because Sqeaky says that the Holy Spirit guides and talks to him.
  • But, at the same time, Squeaky denies Jesus as being God.
  • I say it is not the Holy Spirit that guides Squeaky but it is Satin who guides him because Satin denies Jesus's diety also.
Click to expand...

I said
I will show you what you should be concerned with. I believe the Spirit that is guiding me is the Holy Spirit.

Matt 12:31-32
31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.
32 "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
(NKJ)
 
pekoe said:
Brother, forget about Jews/gentiles and start thinking believers/unbelievers.

The wedding feast wasn't postponed, because the marriage between God and His people wasn't going to take place without the OT saints. Believing gentiles have entered into the marriage covenant between God and His people, the believing Jews. There is only one marriage between God and His people (Believing Jews and gentiles):

"And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready." Re.19:6-7

The wedding between the Lamb and believers is a marriage between God and His people. Jesus is God.
Click to expand...

I said
The marriage is between Jesus and the new Jerusalem. We are just the guest.

1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
 
Squeaky said:
I said
The marriage is between Jesus and the new Jerusalem. We are just the guest.

1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Click to expand...
If the "guests" are different from the "bride", then the guests must be other believers (both Jews and gentiles) who didn't measure up, because in Christ, there is no difference between Jew and gentile. The bride therefore must be chosen on the basis of faithfulness.
 
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