Stickz
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Okay, Grace, believe what you want to believe. I don't care, but you still haven't explained where you get that the baptism is just an outward expression of what has taken place already inwardly etc.
Do You Have To Be Baptised To Recieve The Holy Spirit
- Thread starter RJ
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Okay, Grace, believe what you want to believe. I don't care, but you still haven't explained where you get that the baptism is just an outward expression of what has taken place already inwardly etc.
[QUOTE"Stickz, post: 251353, member: 23024"]Okay, norapture, I didn't understand your motives for the question. Even if it had been Peter, how do you question it without having to also start questioning Peter's two epistles too?[/QUOTE]
Well I believe all scripture was inspired by God, so I can't question it. Just believe it, it is written perfect even if we can't understand somethings.
Well I believe all scripture was inspired by God, so I can't question it. Just believe it, it is written perfect even if we can't understand somethings.
I believe that Jesus died to atone for my personal sins against God. This means I know that I deserve to be condemned to hell for my sins, but I trust that I will go to heaven because Jesus has already paid the penalty for me by dying on the cross as my Substitute. I also Believe that Jesus, the Son of God, was resurrected from the dead.
Our actions don't cause us to have faith, but instead faith leads us to perform actions of obedience. If we're not willing to demonstrate our faith outwardly then it's questionable whether we truly have proper faith in Jesus. (James 2)
There are no contradictions anywhere in the Bible because the Bible was written by God (through human authors). If we interpret a passage in a way which conflicts with other passages, this tells us that something is wrong with our interpretation since we don't have harmony among all of those passages.
Cornelius was simply acting out his faith in water baptism.
Is it possible that God allowed Cornelius and his household to receive the Holy Spirit before they were saved? The New Testament clearly teaches that the gift of the Holy Spirit is only given to Christians (John 7:37-39, Acts 1:4-8, 2:1-4, 38-39, 8:14-17, 19:1-7, Romans 8:9), so it violates Scripture to say that God would give this gift to people who are not saved. Notice that we are specifically told that God accepted Cornelius and his household and purified their hearts by faith before He gave them the Holy Spirit:
"After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them [the Christian Jews in Jerusalem]: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles [Cornelius and his household] might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith."" (Acts 15:7-9)
If you compare this passage with Acts 11:13-18, you'll see that Cornelius and his household are being referred to in both places. This passage says that when Cornelius and his household believed the message of the Gospel, God "knew their hearts" and "accepted them" and "purified their hearts by faith." Then God "showed that He accepted them" into the Kingdom "by giving the Holy Spirit to them." All of this happened before they were baptized in water! Cornelius and his household were not a "special case" in the way that they received salvation because Peter specifically said that God "made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:9). In other words, God brought Cornelius and his household into the Kingdom in exactly the same way that He brings everyone else into the Kingdom. Cornelius and his household received salvation before they were baptized in water, and the context shows that the apostles considered this to be the normal way that salvation works.
Stickz
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It amazes me when you can show somebody something in the Bible word for word and they still find a way to explain it away rather than admit to being wrong. Pride is going to get a lot of people. Some people are just defending what their grandmother taught them all their lives, or what the rest of their families believe in. A lot of people already believed certain things before they ever opened their Bibles to see what it actually says.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? What about people who don't think it's necessary to be baptized? Are they still ... baptized(?) into his death?
I Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
What you are saying Grace is not harmonious with a lot of other scripture. The only way to view what happened with Cornelius and his men without contradicting other verses is the way that I described it. It makes perfect sense when you understand that the Gentiles were never a part of anything before. That is why Peter was told to go see the Gentile people asking no questions, right? Why would he have questioned? Anyway, it makes sense to me, you do what you want. I do find it funny, though, when you were asking people to show you word for word in the scriptures about people being added to the Book of Life, and you don't accept things that you don't want to accept even if the Bible does say it word for word, obviously.
I Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? What about people who don't think it's necessary to be baptized? Are they still ... baptized(?) into his death?
I Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
What you are saying Grace is not harmonious with a lot of other scripture. The only way to view what happened with Cornelius and his men without contradicting other verses is the way that I described it. It makes perfect sense when you understand that the Gentiles were never a part of anything before. That is why Peter was told to go see the Gentile people asking no questions, right? Why would he have questioned? Anyway, it makes sense to me, you do what you want. I do find it funny, though, when you were asking people to show you word for word in the scriptures about people being added to the Book of Life, and you don't accept things that you don't want to accept even if the Bible does say it word for word, obviously.
I Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
I will take Mark first...
- Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved (Mark 16:16a)
- Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life (John 3:36a)
Stickz
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Grace, I really have no interest in hearing your explanations anymore. You take the Bible word for word depending on what you are trying to prove. Like so many other people out there you wanna change the way you interpret scripture from topic to topic or book to book, and I have no interest in it. At least RJ is consistent with how he interprets things.
Rev T.S.Perkins
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i hope this helps you some : the thief on the cross that accepted Christ as Gods son at the point of death and was told by Christ "this day you will enter in to my Fathters kngdom " this is with out water baptisim , i was baptised as a way to follow Christ and represent dying to self and resurrected in Christ ....we are all born with the light of God in us wheater we feed it with the word of God and see it grow or starve it and watch it die !! its up to us .. the Holy Spirit showing is a result of feeding that light of God and seeing the lord grow in us as we grow in HIm...! Rev
You can say I believe, all you
want,but if you believe you will be baptized.
Faith without works is dead.
Believe without works is dead.
Even the devil believes in one God
Your wrong about my study on this! I straddled the fence on this subject for a long time. I lean more to the greater evidence that does not contradict itself. With that said I will leave this thread.
You must not have read my earlier post...James was inserted to prove that actions need to back up your faith!
B-A-C
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However they all do have at least one of the gifts.
I agree
Stickz
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The power is missing in Christianity today for a reason--the faith is lacking. Saying that you have faith does not demonstrate faith. Announcing that you have accepted Jesus Christ in front of a church full of people that you understand have already done the same thing does not demonstrate faith. Even the act of being baptized, with or without people around watching, does not demonstrate faith. If it is something that can be done by an unbeliever it is not the faith that the Bible is talking about. That is what makes it separate, different. It cannot be faked.
