Creaqtion science challenges with practically all the sedimentary rock history originating with the Gen 7 flood, All species were lithified in the same year of the flood. A super ice age would be predictable following that cataclysmic event

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Problem is that no global flood of waters occurred after the time of Genesis 1, as evident by the scriptures themselves in Genesis 6. Since in Genesis 5 ends with
Noah being five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, the end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

So therefore it is evident by verse 18, wherein in it denotes thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy son's wives with thee, that it couldn't have happened.
17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

But that is a topic for another thread, I merely brought it up since if one holds since you hold that it literally took 7 days to create the universe and the earth, but yet 40 days for a flood.

Noah was about 500 years old at the time God called him to build the ark. Was that not long enough to beget sons and daughters? Several generations beyond Adam and Eve supplied wives for his sons by then. So what is your point? Let's get back on topic, OK?

I appreciate the candor in your response. While I do appreciate your sharing your interpretation, not really anything I can add at his point.

TaylorDonBarret said:

Is evolution biblical? Is it even scientific?

Lets examine this:

Is evolution biblical? can it be reconciled with scripture?

well, this one is rather easy. the answer is simply: no, it is not biblical and cannot be reconciled with scripture. i will demonstrate this fact with three examples=

1) The bible says that sin entered the world through adam, and death entered the world through sin. using these facts we can conclude that death did not occur in the world until roughly 6,000 years ago. evolution requires millions of years of death, therefore evolution is not biblical.
2) also, the bible clearly states that God made the earth in six days, and the consensus among top Hebrew scholars is that, because the word 'yom' is used in conjunction is 'evening and morning' and a numerical value; that the author of genesis clearly intended the six days to be literal 24-hour days. so that puts the earth at about 6,000 years old. evolution claims the earth is billions of years old.
3) one last thing, the bible says that vegetation existed on the earth before the sun and the stars were created. evolution says that the sun existed before the earth.

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Yes, Amen!

My three gripes are:

1. Evolution mocks all scripture. Where is the missing scripture from God if mankind is 30 - 100k years old? The affect this has is that scripture seems like recent fairytale dogma.
2. Evolution mocks God. Natural selection is evil. It had to take place before Adam's sin. God is not evil.
3. Evolution mocks the cross. Mankind is accountable for sin because of grey matter between ears. Scripture says Jesus died for all mankind. Now if mankind was evolving...which humans did Jesus die for? Did Adam seek counsel with his monkey father? TE's usually claim God put spirits into monkeys. They have no scriptural support except for Gen 2:7. But Gen 2:7 is clearly referring to all created beings (animals and humans) receiving a soul / breath of life.

As for evolution being scientific. ROFL. They claim the Tiktaalik as a missing link between fish and amphibians when they need a few trillion trillion trillion Tiktaaliks. Anyone who knows the lotto odds must laugh their heads off at evolution. With only 49 numbers (here) the odds of picking 6 winning numbers is ridiculous. Now every step in evolution has to be seen as a winning mixture... winning atoms that formed winning cells that formed winning body parts that formed winning beings. Basic math debunks evolution from a dizzy height.

True science should never contradict scripture, and scripture should never contradict true science. God created this world so that man would "study" it for there in God's Glory is on displayed.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Invisible things can be seen by looking at the things created by God, even God's eternal power of Godhead can be seen by what he created in the physical world.
There can be no false, or untruths if God created this world to declare his own Glory. The Heavens declare his Glory, and all the stars sing together. The problem is with "false" science with all of it theories that have no proof to it's truth. There will always be a counter part of what Satan spews out of his mouth as truth but is not. The Heavens, and earth are no evil, only the wickedness of the spirits who roam it.

Curtis said:

True science should never contradict scripture, and scripture should never contradict true science. God created this world so that man would "study" it for there in God's Glory is on displayed.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Invisible things can be seen by looking at the things created by God, even God's eternal power of Godhead can be seen by what he created in the physical world.
There can be no false, or untruths if God created this world to declare his own Glory. The Heavens declare his Glory, and all the stars sing together. The problem is with "false" science with all of it theories that have no proof to it's truth. There will always be a counter part of what Satan spews out of his mouth as truth but is not. The Heavens, and earth are no evil, only the wickedness of the spirits who roam it.

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While it's impossible for scriptures to contradict true science, it being breathed by God before men had knowledge of science, a perception of scripture contradicting science ought be taken as evidence that particular science study is on the wrong track.

Curtis said:

True science should never contradict scripture, and scripture should never contradict true science. God created this world so that man would "study" it for there in God's Glory is on displayed.

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Science based on repeatable experiments is hard to argue with.
Quantum science based on experiments actually not only agrees with scripture it even helps explain some very difficult scripture.
I'm not talking about quantum theory,I mean the experiments that show that our concepts of reality is skewed.
The double slit experiment for example seems to reveal a completely different idea of reality than what our brains consider reality.
.

Thiscrosshurts said:

Science based on repeatable experiments is hard to argue with.
Quantum science based on experiments actually not only agrees with scripture it even helps explain some very difficult scripture.
I'm not talking about quantum theory,I mean the experiments that show that our concepts of reality is skewed.
The double slit experiment for example seems to reveal a completely different idea of reality than what our brains consider reality.
.

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Even repeatable experiments can be deceiving. Following a previous formula is more likely to result in the same product, without evidence the product is evil, while only confirming the precious quest was repeatable. That's a basis for litigation against pharmaceutical corps that produce a harmful drug. True science would seek to damage a drug formula proposal while seeking to prove it's benefits! Otherwise the effort is sorcery.

Our brains operate better than holding a book up to a situation. The book has a limited assortment of ideas applicable to the topic, but can't communicate with the situation. Science defines what is observed, while the brain has capacity to filter true from false definition as well as perception of what is observed. That's the foundation of faith, and of true science.

Evolutionists are people in denial of God's word, and faith, and reason. They are driven to fill their lives with what they want out of life, ignoring the eternal consequences of sin choices.

Romans 1:17-32 (KJV)
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Folks that vote to "approve" such things will share in their judgment.

Dovegiven said:

While it's impossible for scriptures to contradict true science, it being breathed by God before men had knowledge of science, a perception of scripture contradicting science ought be taken as evidence that particular science study is on the wrong track.

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While I do agree with scriptures on all things, but there are somethings we have hard time understanding in the scriptures that science comes to our aid. God created a physical object in the physical world that we can see with our natural eyes that gives man a revelation of how God is in his eternal realm, which is the "sun". I am not a "young" earth person, and I do believe the earth is millions, and perhaps even billions of years old. Yes, I do believe God created the earth in 6 days, but believe it was only a "recreation". The earth was in existence long before Adam and Eve were created. Lucifer had a throne and he ruled on earth at different time then we have now. In the Garden of Eden Satan was already a fallen being. Where in history do we place Lucifer's rule, and fall? It has to be before Adam.
The Bible had told man back when they thought the earth was flat, but if they had read the scriptures they would have known God created earth in the shape of a "circle" and not flat.
When God Moses to circumcise their men, God told him not to circumcise until the eight day. If they had the children would have bled to death, as it takes the human body 7 days to manufacture vitamin "k" which helps to stop bleeding. Now a days doctors give infants a shot of vitamin "k" before circumcising. Science tell us that the universe is expanding at the speed of light, and there is coming a day in which the universe is going to collapse upon it self like a rubber band braking. The Bible tells us God "stretched" out the Heavens. In the near future this universe will collapse upon itself as scripture tells us, and all elements are going to melt with fervent heat.The Bible and true science do agree with each other.

Curtis said:

While I do agree with scriptures on all things, but there are somethings we have hard time understanding in the scriptures that science comes to our aid. God created a physical object in the physical world that we can see with our natural eyes that gives man a revelation of how God is in his eternal realm, which is the "sun". I am not a "young" earth person, and I do believe the earth is millions, and perhaps even billions of years old. Yes, I do believe God created the earth in 6 days, but believe it was only a "recreation". The earth was in existence long before Adam and Eve were created. Lucifer had a throne and he ruled on earth at different time then we have now. In the Garden of Eden Satan was already a fallen being. Where in history do we place Lucifer's rule, and fall? It has to be before Adam.
The Bible had told man back when they thought the earth was flat, but if they had read the scriptures they would have known God created earth in the shape of a "circle" and not flat.
When God Moses to circumcise their men, God told him not to circumcise until the eight day. If they had the children would have bled to death, as it takes the human body 7 days to manufacture vitamin "k" which helps to stop bleeding. Now a days doctors give infants a shot of vitamin "k" before circumcising. Science tell us that the universe is expanding at the speed of light, and there is coming a day in which the universe is going to collapse upon it self like a rubber band braking. The Bible tells us God "stretched" out the Heavens. In the near future this universe will collapse upon itself as scripture tells us, and all elements are going to melt with fervent heat.The Bible and true science do agree with each other.

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The Bible doesn't tell about Satan (Lucifer) ruling an earth before the Genesis creation week, but does tell he is "god of this world" presently, chosen by man, man's authority yielded to him along with his authority, except for Christians. There's nothing in scriptures to suggest another world "before Adam". It's impossible to "agree" with scriptures while saying the Bible teaches that. I'm aware of why that theory came about, haven't had time to look the authors up, one of several concepts presented by preachers trying to reconcile old age evolution v. young earth creation in a time when none could argue intelligently against it.Those that tried ended up being branded fools. The RCC still has that problem, even though they have scientist clergymen on hand that could reason evolution away.

Western baby boys are commonly circumcised while between 24-72 hours, tending to bleed and complain a lot less then. They usually come home with mother already circumcised and beginning to heal. Sometimes there's a medical condition for which a pediatrician might delay that decision. Jews (and many middle easterners) still follow their ancient ritual, on the 8th day.

Dovegiven said:

Even repeatable experiments can be deceiving. Following a previous formula is more likely to result in the same product, without evidence the product is evil, while only confirming the precious quest was repeatable. That's a basis for litigation against pharmaceutical corps that produce a harmful drug. True science would seek to damage a drug formula proposal while seeking to prove it's benefits! Otherwise the effort is sorcery.

Our brains operate better than holding a book up to a situation. The book has a limited assortment of ideas applicable to the topic, but can't communicate with the situation. Science defines what is observed, while the brain has capacity to filter true from false definition as well as perception of what is observed. That's the foundation of faith, and of true science.

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I agree and that is what the double slit experiment shows.
That the observer is interfering with the experiment
Science defines what is observed but in many cases it ends up observing what it defines or expects to find.
The placebo effect works on a reasonable expectation and has increased by 100% over the last 20 years
making new drug trials very difficult.
Interestingly the effect seems to increase when scientists study why it seems to increase.

Dovegiven said:

The Bible doesn't tell about Satan (Lucifer) ruling an earth before the Genesis creation week, but does tell he is "god of this world" presently, chosen by man, man's authority yielded to him along with his authority, except for Christians. There's nothing in scriptures to suggest another world "before Adam". It's impossible to "agree" with scriptures while saying the Bible teaches that. I'm aware of why that theory came about, haven't had time to look the authors up, one of several concepts presented by preachers trying to reconcile old age evolution v. young earth creation in a time when none could argue intelligently against it.Those that tried ended up being branded fools. The RCC still has that problem, even though they have scientist clergymen on hand that could reason evolution away.

Western baby boys are commonly circumcised while between 24-72 hours, tending to bleed and complain a lot less then. They usually come home with mother already circumcised and beginning to heal. Sometimes there's a medical condition for which a pediatrician might delay that decision. Jews (and many middle easterners) still follow their ancient ritual, on the 8th day.

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Maybe someday I can share with you some of the scriptures that I believe proof there was another earth prior to the one we are living on now.

Curtis said:

Maybe someday I can share with you some of the scriptures that I believe proof there was another earth prior to the one we are living on now.

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We just dismissed our Bible class, but some saw your comment and want to know what you are talking about. I'm left trying to think your position out without having your basis. I'd be happy to post it on our class Facebook page, complete with my response.

witis said:

Maybe someday I can share with you some of the scriptures that I believe proof there was another earth prior to the one we are living on now.

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I agree with your notion. In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth. There can be much time in between gen 1:1 and gen 1:2 when the earth was without form and void and darkness was on the face of the deep. No one can say God hasn't been creating before Man because God hasn't and doesn't tell us everything, he tells us what we need to know. Evolution is ridiculous even scientifically, Satan has always wanted to corrupt Adams bloodline so Jesus couldn't be born and Satan wouldn't lose his dominion, all I am saying is its very possible pre-adamites "man without souls" neandratals or mankind or spirits as well as countless animals existed before us, God never said we were the first of his creations or the last, only that we now are created in his image. Maybe he only seperated the light from the dark and made us like him after he had seen good and bad in his previous endeavours. An things possible with God and if there's nothing new under the sun then much has happened we are not aware of. Praise the Lord for He doesn't condemn imagination, he is the author whom began all in his imagination which became all of creation. Amen

Dovegiven said:

We just dismissed our Bible class, but some saw your comment and want to know what you are talking about. I'm left trying to think your position out without having your basis. I'd be happy to post it on our class Facebook page, complete with my response.

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(1) Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

(2) Definition of the words, “without form, void”
Chaos, formless, empty, wasteland, confusion, disorder, desolation, desert, vain, vanity, wilderness

Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

The word, “vain” means chaos, formless

(3) Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

God only calls the “dry land” earth. He does not call the water earth! In verse two it says.....

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Notice: “the earth was without form...” in other words the dry land was without form. There was no water yet. But then we find in the last part of verse two saying this. “Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. “ Why did not the Spirit of God move upon the face of the dry land? Because there was no dry land to move over as the dry land became flooded with water!!
In the space of just one verse the earth goes from dry land to being completely flooded with water.

(4) 2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

This flood can not be talking about “Noah's” as at that time the whole world was not completely destroyed. The word “perished” means, “to destroy completely”
Noah's flood did not completely destroy every thing as all the plants and trees came back on their own, after the waters slowly receded back. In Genesis God had to bring forth seed to replant the earth.
Also notice in verse five. “and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:”
The earth started out, out of the water, and then became under the water.

(5) Psa 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Psa 104:6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
Psa 104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.

In Noah's flood the waters “slowly” receded back, but in this flood God spoke and the waters “hasten” away quickly!

(6) Gen 8:1 But God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the livestock that were with him in the ark. And God made a wind blow over the earth, and the waters subsided.
Gen 8:2 The fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Gen 8:3 and the waters receded from the earth continually. At the end of 150 days the waters had abated,

(7) Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Lucifer had a throne in which he ruled from, and it was upon this earth. He said “I will exalt my throne above the stars, and above the clouds...” You can not exalt your self above the stars or clouds unless you first under them to start out with. Lucifer had a Kingdom, and a throne, and it was on this earth.
Remember Lucifer was cast back down to the earth after trying to exalt him self to where God was.

(8) Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

There is a lot going on these few scriptures, but I will not go through them now just to save time here.
The end of this scripture says...
For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

In this time of destruction God said he would not a “full end” meaning there would not be absolute destruction. There would be parts left over for which to renew the earth once again,which I believe we see in the Genesis 1:2.

(10) Heb 2:2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Heb 2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
Heb 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

This Scripture infers that at one time this earth was ruled by Angels.

1. 2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
   
   The first earth was destroyed by water (not Noah's flood), and the earth we are now living on will be destroyed by “fire”
   

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.
2Pe 3:11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives
2Pe 3:12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The world that “was” perished, but the earth that “now is” shall be destroyed by fire.
The earth we are now living on is not the same earth that then was!

Curtis I agree, scripture doesn't limit our past, it lets us go past preconcieved notions into a realm more spectacular than the fictional. Just because a verse means something particular to someone at a particular stage in faith doesn't mean that the same verse won't mean something new at a different stage. That's why we don't just read the Bible once and done because it teaches us more and more as we open up our minds to new ways of thinking. God is so good.

Curtis said:

(1) Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

(2) Definition of the words, “without form, void”
Chaos, formless, empty, wasteland, confusion, disorder, desolation, desert, vain, vanity, wilderness

Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

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That's greatly out of context. Isa 45 is a prophecy of Emperor Cyrus who did exactly what God said he would do. You need to read that chapter! God goes on record that he didn't create the world and man in it in vain, but to accomplish his primary purpose of establishing man, and in that chapter specifically arranging for the salvation of the seed of Jacob (Israel) out of captivity in Babylon. Later the king could correctly give God credit for his mighty conquests of many nations, saying in Ezra 1:2 (KJV)
2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

Please go look again at what God declared about his creation in that chapter. There is never a mention of some inhabited world that was before Gen 1:2 I have now identified the theory from


nickbunch1987's mention of "Pre-Adamite" as probably a J. Finnis Dake proposal that though he was against evolution, actually endorsed it with that major blunder. He came along at a time when no scientists could counter evolution. Otherwise his works are excellent. I'll pluck a few verses out so you can see the prophet wasn't speaking of an event between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2. He specifically referred to the whole creation in relation to man, for and about Israel.

Modern science, including the common understanding of creation scientists, allows for planet-building the way described in Gen 1. The unique feature is the water in such large amounts. A new planet would be featureless until internal geologic forces, impacts from extraterrestrial sources, and erosion, etc. give it surface features. The later appearance of an atmosphere is predictable, and the chemistry of an atmospheric N/O/CO2/+ composition is predictable from a planetary water base.

You wrote: "Notice: “the earth was without form...” in other words the dry land was without form. There was no water yet. But then we find in the last part of verse two saying this. “Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. “ Why did not the Spirit of God move upon the face of the dry land? Because there was no dry land to move over as the dry land became flooded with water!!
In the space of just one verse the earth goes from dry land to being completely flooded with water."

God made dry land appear in verse 9. All there was to see of Earth in the previous verses was water covering the crust.

I really ought not have to take it further, but will later. Meanwhile please read back to see what I wrote about the double Hebrew wording of "without form AND void". That's emphasis on the fact there was noting to see but an earth flooded by water, no land showing anywhere. I don't plan to keep repeating myself, so please catch up.

Dovegiven said:

That's greatly out of context. Isa 45 is a prophecy of Emperor Cyrus who did exactly what God said he would do. You need to read that chapter! God goes on record that he didn't create the world and man in it in vain, but to accomplish his primary purpose of establishing man, and in that chapter specifically arranging for the salvation of the seed of Jacob (Israel) out of captivity in Babylon. Later the king could correctly give God credit for his mighty conquests of many nations, saying in Ezra 1:2 (KJV)
2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

Please go look again at what God declared about his creation in that chapter. There is never a mention of some inhabited world that was before Gen 1:2 I have now identified the theory from


nickbunch1987's mention of "Pre-Adamite" as probably a J. Finnis Dake proposal that though he was against evolution, actually endorsed it with that major blunder. He came along at a time when no scientists could counter evolution. Otherwise his works are excellent. I'll pluck a few verses out so you can see the prophet wasn't speaking of an event between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2. He specifically referred to the whole creation in relation to man, for and about Israel.

Modern science, including the common understanding of creation scientists, allows for planet-building the way described in Gen 1. The unique feature is the water in such large amounts. A new planet would be featureless until internal geologic forces, impacts from extraterrestrial sources, and erosion, etc. give it surface features. The later appearance of an atmosphere is predictable, and the chemistry of an atmospheric N/O/CO2/+ composition is predictable from a planetary water base.

You wrote: "Notice: “the earth was without form...” in other words the dry land was without form. There was no water yet. But then we find in the last part of verse two saying this. “Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. “ Why did not the Spirit of God move upon the face of the dry land? Because there was no dry land to move over as the dry land became flooded with water!!
In the space of just one verse the earth goes from dry land to being completely flooded with water."

God made dry land appear in verse 9. All there was to see of Earth in the previous verses was water covering the crust.

I really ought not have to take it further, but will later. Meanwhile please read back to see what I wrote about the double Hebrew wording of "without form AND void". That's emphasis on the fact there was noting to see but an earth flooded by water, no land showing anywhere. I don't plan to keep repeating myself, so please catch up.

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Brother, there are a lot more than what I presented here. Probably one of most striking pieces of evidence is found in the New Testament in the Book of Hebrews.

Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

When God originally created the earth he did not use any type of existing "materiel" as we see in Genesis 1:2. God does not create things out of nothing, he uses a substance called "faith"
"Faith is the "substance" of things hoped for......" (Heb 11:1)

Curtis said:

(3) Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

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Hello Curtis.

You caught my attention with your post, though I am not sure about the translation of the tenth line from this first chapter of Genesis.

Genesis 1:10 (KJV)
And God called the dry land Earth...

In the first section of this line, the Hebrew has been translated as 'the dry land Earth'. The Hebrew does not seem to have
the Hebrew word for 'earth' in the text. For some unknown reason, some translations seem to have inserted two words
'land' and 'earth' into their translations. The Hebrew text only has the one word, Strongs H776, which means 'land' and does
not have an additional word for 'earth'.

Even the NIV translation inserts an additional word also, but does not use the word 'earth'.

Genesis 1:10 (NIV)
10 God called the dry 'ground' land...

The reason that the translations may be incorrect, is that the ancient Hebrew text only had the one word
for 'land'. The Hebrew text was not saying what the translations of the text propose.

The correct translation would be as follows.

Genesis 1:10 (DHC)
God called the dry land and the gathering together of the waters he called seas...

Meaning God called (spoke) the dry land into existence and the gathering waters he called seas, e.t.c,.

Dovegiven said:

That's greatly out of context. Isa 45 is a prophecy of Emperor Cyrus who did exactly what God said he would do. You need to read that chapter! God goes on record that he didn't create the world and man in it in vain, but to accomplish his primary purpose of establishing man, and in that chapter specifically arranging for the salvation of the seed of Jacob (Israel) out of captivity in Babylon. Later the king could correctly give God credit for his mighty conquests of many nations, saying in Ezra 1:2 (KJV)
2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

Please go look again at what God declared about his creation in that chapter. There is never a mention of some inhabited world that was before Gen 1:2 I have now identified the theory from


nickbunch1987's mention of "Pre-Adamite" as probably a J. Finnis Dake proposal that though he was against evolution, actually endorsed it with that major blunder. He came along at a time when no scientists could counter evolution. Otherwise his works are excellent. I'll pluck a few verses out so you can see the prophet wasn't speaking of an event between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2. He specifically referred to the whole creation in relation to man, for and about Israel.

Modern science, including the common understanding of creation scientists, allows for planet-building the way described in Gen 1. The unique feature is the water in such large amounts. A new planet would be featureless until internal geologic forces, impacts from extraterrestrial sources, and erosion, etc. give it surface features. The later appearance of an atmosphere is predictable, and the chemistry of an atmospheric N/O/CO2/+ composition is predictable from a planetary water base.

You wrote: "Notice: “the earth was without form...” in other words the dry land was without form. There was no water yet. But then we find in the last part of verse two saying this. “Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. “ Why did not the Spirit of God move upon the face of the dry land? Because there was no dry land to move over as the dry land became flooded with water!!
In the space of just one verse the earth goes from dry land to being completely flooded with water."

God made dry land appear in verse 9. All there was to see of Earth in the previous verses was water covering the crust.

I really ought not have to take it further, but will later. Meanwhile please read back to see what I wrote about the double Hebrew wording of "without form AND void". That's emphasis on the fact there was noting to see but an earth flooded by water, no land showing anywhere. I don't plan to keep repeating myself, so please catch up.

Click to expand...

Brother I don't think you will be able say this was not God speaking here, and what he was talking about.

Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

The word "vain" is the exact same word used in Genesis 1:2 but using the word, "without form". Theses two words word mean.....

to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), that is, desert; figuratively a worthless thing; adverbially in vain: - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.

This is exactly what the earth was in Genesis 1:2, but God did not originally create it this way.