B-A-C said:

It's not nearly as difficult as some make it out to be.

An egg, is a shell, a yolk, and and an eggwhite. Any one of those 3 parts on it's own is sometimes called an egg.
A football is made up of a defensive team, an offensive team, and usually special teams that aren't offense or defense..
The US government has 3 branches... the executive, the legislative, and the judicial
A family often has a father, a mother, and a child(ren).

Now none of these are perfect examples... because sometimes families break up, and sometimes the government
doesn't agree with itself.. but the point here... many things can make up one thing.

Click to expand...

It is by the Holy Ghost that a person is revealed who JESUS really is. Not by some man's doctrine of what they THINK is the truth by HUMAN reasoning. It is revealed by revelation.

I grew up a trinity believer along with most of the world and it is easy to comprehend with human reasoning from just reading the scripture that there seems to be a trinity God in heaven.
It did not take the Holy Ghost to see that.

I always thought well there is one God but in three personalities or spirits because it looks like there is or my so called pastor or parents told me there is a trinity. I find out the hard way that 99% of our so called pastors and along with our parents did not bother to search the scriptures for themselves or even bothered to read the Bible one time from Genesis to Revelation themselves.

But when I started to ask God who He really is and digged deep, then things changed.

How does 3 = 1? It doesn't. 1=1 Either there is One God all the way which means JESUS is the Father or there is only a three spirits or personality gods in heaven. One God does not equal three persons summed up as one God nor does three personalities equal one God.
Nor does the eternal Son of God even exist in the Word. I can not find it in there There is no such thing in the Word but we through our human reasoning believe there must be one that is eternal because we can't explain the scriptures in any other way but through human reasoning and not trusting in the Holy Ghost for the revelation.

Some people think that there was a lamb slain from the foundation of the world stinking up heaven. That was in God's LOGOS (thought, plan, purpose, and will)
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Why would the Father say to the Son "will you down there and die for the sins of the world?" What Father would send his own Son down to die? That is no man at all. If I had a Son doing this, I would object and do it myself.

Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Act 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

Tell me this, God is omnipresent right? He is everywhere. God is a Spirit and we cannot see a Spirit correct?

Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

In Acts 7:56 we see what perceives to be the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Tell me the the coordinates of the right hand of God. Where is His right hand located? Where is His left hand located? Show me the omnipresent God's right hand. Or does that mean something else that our human reasoning cannot grasp and it can only be revealed by the Holy Ghost. .

Why did it say Son of man and not Son of God in that particular verse? What is the Son of man? JESUS was not the Son of any earthly man.
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

The Son of man which IS in heaven? JESUS is saying this in shoe leather. I thought He was the Son of man? How can He be in heaven at the same time He is saying this on earth?

There is a reason for everything in this Word. If we don't dig deep and search the scriptures then we are not going to make heaven.

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

It did not say Us, it said ME.

Look at the verses here and explain to me what they are.

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Now as we see here there are the four beasts right? and four and twenty elders right?

We know God never redeemed an angel right?

What are the four beasts? What are they doing singing a new song?
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

No angel was ever redeemed.

Robert Lindstrom said:

It is by the Holy Ghost that a person is revealed who JESUS really is. Not by some man's doctrine of what they THINK is the truth by HUMAN reasoning. It is revealed by revelation

Click to expand...

Who revealed to Peter who Jesus was? God the Father or the Holy Spirit?

Robert Lindstrom said:

How does 3 = 1? It doesn't. 1=1 Either there is One God all the way which means JESUS is the Father or there is only a three spirits or personality gods in heaven. One God does not equal three persons summed up as one God nor does three personalities equal one God.
Nor does the eternal Son of God even exist in the Word. I can not find it in there There is no such thing in the Word but we through our human reasoning believe there must be one that is eternal because we can't explain the scriptures in any other way but through human reasoning and not trusting in the Holy Ghost for the revelation.

Click to expand...

Brother you are talking about NOT using "logic" to understand the "trinity" as 3 = 1, yet that is exactly what you are using. 3 = 1 does not make "logical" sense, but 1 = 1 does.

Robert Lindstrom said:

Tell me this, God is omnipresent right? He is everywhere. God is a Spirit and we cannot see a Spirit correct?

Click to expand...

This in not correct. You can not see a spirit with your physical eyes because they were not designed to do that, but the eyes of the heart (spirit) can.

Robert Lindstrom said:

Why did it say Son of man and not Son of God in that particular verse? What is the Son of man? JESUS was not the Son of any earthly man.
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

The Son of man which IS in heaven? JESUS is saying this in shoe leather. I thought He was the Son of man? How can He be in heaven at the same time He is saying this on earth?

Click to expand...

Jesus identified him self with man by calling himself "the Son of man", yet he was also "the Son of God."
How Jesus Christ could live on earth in a physical body and at the same time as still being in his Father in Heaven is the same way Christ is in us on earth, and we also are in Christ in Heaven. Only by the power of God's Glory is this possible. What makes God "one"? It is his Glory as Jesus tells us.........

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Curtis said:

Who revealed to Peter who Jesus was? God the Father or the Holy Spirit?

Click to expand...

You just proved One God right there and do not even know it. LOL

Robert Lindstrom said:

You just proved One God right there and do not even know it. LOL

Click to expand...

Mat_5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father WHICH is in heaven.

It never says, Our Father who is in heaven. Because it is an Administration office. Father of all spirits.

Jesus is the way ... ( John 14:6; ) the way to what? The Father.
If Jesus was the Father.. He wouldn't be the way... He would be the destination.

Jesus is a mediator ( 1 Tim 2:5; ) a mediator between who? God (Father) and man. A person cannot mediate for them self.
A go-between has to have two parties to "go-between".

The Holy Spirit is an intercessor. ( Rom 8:26-27; ) an intercessor between who? God (Father) and man. An intercessor
cannot intercede between himself and someone else.

Jesus has a will.. ( Matt 26:39; ) His will isn't always the Fathers will ( Matt 26:39; Mark 14:36; Luke 22:42; ) Yet Jesus is always
obedient to the Father. How can the same person have a contrary will against himself?

God (Father) raised Jesus from the dead... you cannot raise yourself from the dead... if you are dead.
Acts 4:10; Acts 13:30; Rom 6:4; Rom 10:9; etc...

Jesus had conversations with the Father... if the were the same person, why would He need to talk to himself?
Matt 10:32-33; Matt 11:25-26; etc...

The Father knows things that Jesus doesn't know ( Matt 24:36; Mark 13:32; etc... )
How can someone not know what they know if they are the same person?

To deny Jesus is come from the Father.. is to be an evil spirit. ( 1 Jn 4:3; )
To say Jesus IS the Father.. is to deny that He is FROM the Father.

Is Jesus Spirit or flesh? Luke 24:38

Is The Father Spirit or flesh? John 4:23-24

B-A-C said:

Jesus is the way ... ( John 14:6; ) the way to what? The Father.
If Jesus was the Father.. He wouldn't be the way... He would be the destination.

Jesus is a mediator ( 1 Tim 2:5; ) a mediator between who? God (Father) and man. A person cannot mediate for them self.
A go-between has to have two parties to "go-between".

The Holy Spirit is an intercessor. ( Rom 8:26-27; ) an intercessor between who? God (Father) and man. An intercessor
cannot intercede between himself and someone else.

Jesus has a will.. ( Matt 26:39; ) His will isn't always the Fathers will ( Matt 26:39; Mark 14:36; Luke 22:42; ) Yet Jesus is always
obedient to the Father. How can the same person have a contrary will against himself?

God (Father) raised Jesus from the dead... you cannot raise yourself from the dead... if you are dead.
Acts 4:10; Acts 13:30; Rom 6:4; Rom 10:9; etc...

Jesus had conversations with the Father... if the were the same person, why would He need to talk to himself?
Matt 10:32-33; Matt 11:25-26; etc...

The Father knows things that Jesus doesn't know ( Matt 24:36; Mark 13:32; etc... )
How can someone not know what they know if they are the same person?

To deny Jesus is come from the Father.. is to be an evil spirit. ( 1 Jn 4:3; )
To say Jesus IS the Father.. is to deny that He is FROM the Father.

Click to expand...

It clearly says in the Word that there is only One Spirit of God. Not 3 Spirits in heaven. Just one.

There is no trinity God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit in heaven sitting on three different thrones.

It is not even scriptural. If you want to go that far, I could show you 7 Spirits of God in heaven


Rev_4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

So if you add God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, you now get 10 Spirits of God in heaven.

What are the SEVEN Spirits of God?

Isa_11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Spirit of the Lord
Spirit of Wisdom
Spirit of Understanding
Spirit of Counsel
Spirit of Might
Spirit of Knowledge
Spirit of Fear

Its all one Spirit, just different attributes of God.

The reason It is mentioned that there are 7 Spirits of God is to show us that Seven means something other than just a number. It means the seven fold or fullness of.
There are more attributes of God than that.
1Co_4:21 What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.



Lack of revelation of How God works salvation by Himself.

Isa 63:5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.

Gen 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
Gen 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.


God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering. What does that mean? It means God will provide HIMSELF as a lamb.

Why didn't it say: God will provide a lamb for a burnt offering?

"God (Father) raised Jesus from the dead... you cannot raise yourself from the dead... if you are dead"

I disagree with that.
Joh_2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

JESUS said He would raise it up.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Here it says the Father raised Him.

It all depends on the Revelation of how you see JESUS. How much glory did God take off in the days of His flesh to work as a man?

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Notice it said, The MAN Christ JESUS. It did not say: The Son Christ JESUS. Its talking about in the days of His flesh being that mediator between God and men. Not in heaven begging for forgivness of their sins. He did it all at the cross, past, present, and future sins. He broke the wall of partition, the fleshly veil at the cross. Ever since Adam sinned, all mankind fell. There was a wall of petition there and now the MAN Christ JESUS destroyed it. That wall seperated us from God.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Mar 15:37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
Mar 15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

He is not in heaven asking the Father to forgive their sins. Show me scripture of Him begging the Father for forgiveness?

Col_2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

When was all the sins taken care of? At the cross.

Robert Lindstrom said:

It all depends on the Revelation of how you see JESUS. How much glory did God take off in the days of His flesh to work as a man?

Click to expand...

I will certainly agree with your statement .. "It all depends... of how you see Jesus".

Php 2:5; Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6; who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be held onto,
Php 2:7; but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8; Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross

Jesus existed in the form of God (no one is saying He isn't God) but He didn't consider being equal to God (Father)
something He needed to always cling to.
He emptied Himself (of what?) .... of His equality with God the Father. Taking the form of a servant ( ..servant to who? )
and was made in the likeness of man. (flesh and bone)
He humbled Himself and was obedient.. (obedient to who? ) to the Father...

As far as all this 7 spirits.. or 10 spirits or whatever might be... I wonder if you can show scripture supporting this?
Not just one or two of them... but all of them.

I've mentioned this before... but Jesus isn't a Spirit. The Father is...

John 4:23; “But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
John 4:24; “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Luke 24:36; While they were telling these things, He Himself stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be to you.”
Luke 24:37; But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit.
Luke 24:38; And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts?
Luke 24:39; “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”
Luke 24:40; And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.
Luke 24:41; While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?”
Luke 24:42; They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish;
Luke 24:43; and He took it and ate it before them.

Does a spirit have flesh and bones? The answer is in verse 39 above.
Can a spirit eat a piece of fish?

24But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples were saying to him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”

John 20:26; After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, “Peace be with you.”
John 20:27; Then He said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
John 20:28; Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Would Thomas have been able to 'touch' a spirit?

Does Jesus have a spirit? Yes... do all humans have a spirit? ( Rom 8:9; 1 Cor 15:44; )
But is Jesus only a spirit? Be careful of your answer.

1 John 4:2; By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
1 John 4:3; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

Is Jesus in the flesh or not?

The plural God?

Gen 1:26; Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
Gen 1:27; God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

"Our" image? Who is "our"? Can "our" be one person?

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2; He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
John 1:4; In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Who is "the Word" ...well whoever it is.. He is "with" God... and He "is" God.

John 1:14; And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Here it says the "the Word" became flesh and dwelt among us. But the Word is God, and the Word was with God.
Who is "the Word"?

How can He be with himself?

Acts 1:9; And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
Acts 1:10; And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them.
Acts 1:11; They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.”

This Jesus... will come back just the "same way" He went to heaven.

Robert Lindstrom said:

Notice it said, The MAN Christ JESUS. It did not say: The Son Christ JESUS. Its talking about in the days of His flesh being that mediator between God and men. Not in heaven begging for forgivness of their sins. He did it all at the cross, past, present, and future sins.

Click to expand...

Does this mean no one has to believe in Jesus? No one has to "get saved" we are already saved? After all... all of our
sins are already forgiven. Jesus already did all of the work. If this is true... why are "many" still going to hell?
..and only a "few" that are being saved.

1 John 2:1; My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

Why do we need an advocate? What is an advocate? One of the definitions of a defense lawyer is "an advocate". Why does it say we need one "if anyone sins".

1 John 1:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 John 1:4; The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
1 John 1:5; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
1 John 1:6; the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

If we keep the commandments - God (Jesus) abides in us. If we say we know Him and don't keep the commandments we are a liar.
If we say Jesus is in us... we ought to walk in the same manner as Jesus walked.

Jesus did His part. We have to do ours.

Gen 3:20; Now the man called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all the living.
Gen 3:21; The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.
Gen 3:22; Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—
Gen 3:23; therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.

The "Lord God" said.... "like one of Us". Who is Us?

B-A-C said:

I will certainly agree with your statement .. "It all depends... of how you see Jesus".

Php 2:5; Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6; who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be held onto,
Php 2:7; but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8; Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross

Jesus existed in the form of God (no one is saying He isn't God) but He didn't consider being equal to God (Father)
something He needed to always cling to.
He emptied Himself (of what?) .... of His equality with God the Father. Taking the form of a servant ( ..servant to who? )
and was made in the likeness of man. (flesh and bone)
He humbled Himself and was obedient.. (obedient to who? ) to the Father...

As far as all this 7 spirits.. or 10 spirits or whatever might be... I wonder if you can show scripture supporting this?
Not just one or two of them... but all of them.

I've mentioned this before... but Jesus isn't a Spirit. The Father is...

John 4:23; “But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
John 4:24; “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Luke 24:36; While they were telling these things, He Himself stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be to you.”
Luke 24:37; But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit.
Luke 24:38; And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts?
Luke 24:39; “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”
Luke 24:40; And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.
Luke 24:41; While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?”
Luke 24:42; They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish;
Luke 24:43; and He took it and ate it before them.

Does a spirit have flesh and bones? The answer is in verse 39 above.
Can a spirit eat a piece of fish?

24But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples were saying to him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”

John 20:26; After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, “Peace be with you.”
John 20:27; Then He said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
John 20:28; Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Would Thomas have been able to 'touch' a spirit?

Does Jesus have a spirit? Yes... do all humans have a spirit? ( Rom 8:9; 1 Cor 15:44; )
But is Jesus only a spirit? Be careful of your answer.

1 John 4:2; By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
1 John 4:3; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

Is Jesus in the flesh or not?

Click to expand...

Jesus existed in the form of God (no one is saying He isn't God) but He didn't consider being equal to God (Father)

He didn't consider being equal with God?? Yes He did. He thought it not robbery to be equal with God...HE is equal with God.

I see where this is going and if we cannot stay on the KJV Bible here then we have nothing else to talk about because all of those other commentary so called bibles out there are just that....man's so called revelation of what they think is what the Word of God says.

That's like asking a devil to make a bible based off of the original bible and show me what he thinks it means.

We can even do better than King James... we can go to the original Greek.

This is one of the few words that only occurs once in the entire Bible. Only in Philippians 2:6;
Neither strong's nor Thayer concordance list "robbery" for harpagmos.

Strong's Concordance
harpagmos: the act of seizing or the thing seized
Original Word: ἁρπαγμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: harpagmos
Phonetic Spelling: (har-pag-mos')
Short Definition: spoil, an object of eager desire, a prize
Definition: spoil, an object of eager desire, a prize.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 725 harpagmós – to seize, especially by an open display of force. See 726 (harpazō).

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from harpazó
Definition
the act of seizing or the thing seized
NASB Translation
thing to be grasped (1).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 725: ἁρπαγμός

ἁρπαγμός, ἁρπαγμου, ὁ (ἁρπάζω);
1. the act of seizing, robbery (so Plutarch, de book educ. c. 15 (others 14, 37), vol. 2:12 a. the only instance of its use noted in secular authors).

2. a thing seized or to be seized, booty: ἁρπαγμόν ἡγεῖσθαι τί to deem anything a prlze — a thing to be seized upon or to be held fast, retained, Philippians 2:6; on the meaning of this passage see μορφή; (ἡγεῖσθαι or ποιεῖσθαι τί ἅρπαγμα, Eusebius, h. e. 8, 12, 2; vit. Const. 2, 31; (commentaries in Luc. vi., cf. Mai, Nov. Biblical Patr. iv., p. 165); Heliodorus 7, 11 and 20; 8, 7; (Plutarch, de Alex. virt. 1, 8, p. 330d.);utomniumbonapraedamtuamduceres, Cicero, Verr. 2:5, 15, 39; (see Lightfoot on Phil., p. 133f (cf. p. 111); Wetstein at the passage; Cremer, 4te Aufl., p. 153f)).

It seems to me... we are debating over the nature of God unless I'm mistaken.

But as far as my contemplation on the subject goes, the more I know God, the more I realize I know nothing of His full nature.

For God is infinite. And He is beyond any mortal human being grasping His full glory and nature.


So... While the Biblical principles are given for a reason. The depth of this discussion to me seems "vanity" as God says in Ecclesiastes.

Proverbs 26:12

I know I cannot begin to explain anything on the subject.

My Saviour is God, Jesus is my Saviour; Therefore Jesus is my God, who said He lives in me.

All I need to know. lol

But this is all just my own personal opinion on the matter. I have learned quite a few things from the men in this thread.

I will also say, it's nice to see men so interested in God, and the lists of verses are particularly interesting.

Ceptor said:

It seems to me... we are debating over the nature of God unless I'm mistaken.

But as far as my contemplation on the subject goes, the more I know God, the more I realize I know nothing of His full nature.

For God is infinite. And He is beyond any mortal human being grasping His full glory and nature.


So... While the Biblical principles are given for a reason. The depth of this discussion to me seems "vanity" as God says in Ecclesiastes.

Proverbs 26:12

I know I cannot begin to explain anything on the subject.

My Saviour is God, Jesus is my Saviour; Therefore Jesus is my God, who said He lives in me.

All I need to know. lol

But this is all just my own personal opinion on the matter. I have learned quite a few things from the men in this thread.

I will also say, it's nice to see men so interested in God, and the lists of verses are particularly interesting.

Click to expand...

Oh yes, those who love God do know something about God, but how can they express in human words what is known not by the mind but by the hear?. Yet, so many speak as if they are certain about some parts of God's nature. Perhaps sometimes they are correct, but more often I believe they speaking from the natural carnal mind rather than the heart where God has written the Truth. The only Way to really know the nature of God is to become more like Him. That does not happen by study of the Bible alone.