Rom 7:15; For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

Rom 7:23; but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

The struggle between the flesh and the spirit is talked about quite a bit in Rom 7 and 8.
Rom 8:5-13; is another place.

Galatians 5 also talks about this struggle.
Gal 5:16; But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
Gal 5:17; For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

Why would we need armor.. if we arent in a war.. a struggle?

Eph 6:10; Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might.
Eph 6:11; Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
Eph 6:12; For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:13; Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
Eph 6:14; Stand firm therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
Eph 6:15; and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16; in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
Eph 6:17; And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

We need the armor of God so we can... "extinguish the flaming arrows of the evil one"
"resist in the evil day" "stand firm"

We do have to resist satan... not in our own power of course... but it has to be our decision daily to resist him.

James 4:7; Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

B-A-C said:

But none of these promises are made to people who are still struggling.

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You've never understood God's love until you understand that He understands your struggle. God works in His ways, not how men expect Him to.

For a long time I felt guilty that I didn't have enough faith, that I was too sinful, that I was doomed to be a wretch due to statements like these. And worst I was doomed to Hell because I "struggled"...

It is a lie, and maybe not intentional.. but nevertheless a lie. You are not able to see heart, and not able to walk in their shoes.

If things were as easy as you say, no one would be struggling. Don't discourage people who are genuinely trying to serve Jesus and want to turn from Evil.


When you tell someone they shouldn't be struggling with sin, you are telling them to give up.

The entire war being fought on this earth is for souls who fight against sin. If there is no struggle, their is no war. And that is not Biblical.

I would like to hear from a single person in this thread that DOES NOT struggle with sin on a daily basis. The person that makes this claim is lying, either purposely or by self-delusion.

We ALL need Jesus Christ to forgive us DAILY and it is a DAILY struggle.

Christ empowers us to get up, and keep going knowing we are forgiven and worthy thanks to Him. If you don't struggle daily, you don't need Jesus and He died for nothing. This, is not true for anyone on this planet. We all need Jesus Christ every second of every day brother. End of story.

The Bible talks about two kinds of sins...
We do certain sins almost every day. Even speeding in your car is a sin.
Lust is a sin. Thinking bad thoughts about someone is a sin.
We don't premeditate those sins... they just happen without us even thinking about them much.
We don't go to bed thinking... "tomorrow I'm going to steal a pen from the office".

Then there are other sins... addictive, habitual sins.. sins that we purposely choose to do.
Sins that control us.

2 Pet 2:19; promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.
2 Pet 2:20; For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
2 Pet 2:21; For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
2 Pet 2:22; It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”

Some people who are or have been Christian are still "enslaved" to certain sins. ( verse 19 )
This isn't written to sinners... it's written to those "who have known Jesus Christ".

1 Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1 Cor 6:10; nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

It doesn't say those who are struggling with these things won't go to heaven...
it says those who do these things won't go to heaven. No matter what they believe.

The sins above aren't really the kinds of sins you do once or twice. Doing a certain sin once or twice
is just sin (which is bad enough). Purposely making a choice to sin today and tomorrow is a sinful
lifestyle.

If you're living with a girl... you know you'll choose to live with her tomorrow.
If you're having sexual relations with another man... you know you'll choose to keep doing it tomorrow.
If you're sleeping with a married woman... chances are you'll sleep with her again.

This is being enslaved to sin. No one makes you sin. Even satan can't make you sin.
He can tempt you. but the choice to sin.. is yours.

There is unwillful sin... and there is willful sin. ( Heb 10:26; )
If we go on sinning willfully......

It's easy for some to say, I don't want to sin... but I can't stop. Yes you can.
Stop putting yourself in that position.
Move out... don't live with that girl anymore.
Quit seeing that married woman.. have nothing to do with her, don't even talk to her.
If you have a drinking problem... quit going to the bars.

If you choose to keep putting yourself in the way of sin.. you don't really want to quit.

Ceptor said:

I would like to hear from a single person in this thread that DOES NOT struggle with sin on a daily basis. The person that makes this claim is lying, either purposely or by self-delusion.

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If we say we have no sin... we are lying and we make him a liar. ( 1 Jn 1:8-10; )

But we don't have to be a slave to sin... we don't have to let sin enslave us or control us.

I've committed fornication and adultery in my past.
I've looked at pornography if my past.
Sexual sin really have a stronghold in my life because of decision I made when I was young.

But I'm here to tell you... someone can be set free from these things.
I can't say I didn't sin yesterday.

But I can say I haven't done those enslaving sins in many many years.

A sin is a sin brother. It can be complicated if we want to make it so, but it's very simple.

Whether we try not to sin is what matters, regardless of what sin it is.

James 2:10
10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

I am no more worthy now having overcome some of the sins in my life with Christ's forgiveness and help, than a person who is yet still struggling. We are both covered by Christ's blood.

We can be set free, but it is still a struggle. Telling someone they shouldn't be struggling makes them think they are doing something wrong, when they are doing what they should be.

And I agree, Jesus has set me free from many many MANY sins... but some of them took years and years and years.

And me and my Judge Jesus Christ know my heart and that my fight and struggle lasted for years.

I just don't want people to get the idea that God's promises don't apply to them because they are struggling. That is simply not true in any way.

God is with them is they are hungry for righteousness and are trying to turn from Evil. They need to be ENCOURAGED not DISCOURAGED.

Ceptor said:

A sin is a sin brother. It can be complicated if we want to make it so, but it's very simple.

Whether we try not to sin is what matters, regardless of what sin it is.

James 2:10
10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

I am no more worthy now having overcome some of the sins in my life with Christ's forgiveness and help, than a person who is yet still struggling. We are both covered by Christ's blood.

We can be set free, but it is still a struggle. Telling someone they shouldn't be struggling makes them think they are doing something wrong, when they are doing what they should be.

And I agree, Jesus has set me free from many many MANY sins... but some of them took years and years and years.

And me and my Judge Jesus Christ know my heart and that my fight and struggle lasted for years.

I just don't want people to get the idea that God's promises don't apply to them because they are struggling. That is simply not true in any way.

God is with them is they are hungry for righteousness and are trying to turn from Evil. They need to be ENCOURAGED not DISCOURAGED.

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The main reason we end up struggling with sin is simple. We are sin conscious, instead of righteousness conscious. If we were focusing on the fact that we are the righteousness of God in Christ rather than focusing on sin....we would not have a struggle. Its like when you drive....you go where you look. Your vision affects your direction. I don't know of any scripture to back this up but as a driver and a Christian I see it often so its experiential for me.

B-A-C said:

These two posts would seem to disagree with each other. ( I realize they are posted by two different people, but
still they are different points of view)

I partially agree with both things here... to a point. We can struggle... it may even be for a long period of time.
I think a lot of the struggle, is because we are trying too hard in our strength some times. We can't do it
without Jesus. But if we do have Jesus... we can overcome.

I agree with @Ophel about overcoming.

There are many scriptures about promises made to overcomers.
Rom 12:21; 1 Jn 2:13-14; 1 Jn 4:4; 1 Jn 5:4-5; and many times in Revelation... Rev 2:7; Rev 2:11; Rev 2:17;
Rev 2:26; Rev 3:5; Rev 3:12; Rev 3:21; Rev 21:7;

But none of these promises are made to people who are still struggling.
In every verse above.. the promises are made to "he who overcomes". If we have victory in Jesus lets
prove it. Lets live it.

2 Tim 3:5; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

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Every promise made to us as believers are made for us in the midst of struggle. It's the promise of victory we hold on to. Jesus is our Living Hope!

Ceptor said:

Speaking of discouraging...

I do believe I was 'righteousness conscious' as it's all i ever aim for. God knows that. And I believe others are as well who struggle. I overcame much through Jesus' help, but there was tons of struggle.

My favorite verse is Matthew 5:6

I feel for those who are going through what I did who will keep hearing the same things like "we would not have a struggle." that i used to endure and believe. It is far more common to hear than one would think, and just as common people are suffering by believing it.

I hate to know people are struggling and want to come to Jesus and feel unworthy and doomed because of these things. It breaks my heart

Have a good one guys

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We are constantly standing against the enemy because he is always coming to us with 'good ideas' and we always have to remember that we already have the best, so anything we accept from him is a trade down. Then he comes to us reminding us how we failed yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah ....and it can be so hard to focus on the fact that now we are the righteousness of God in LOVE that we turn and look at the sin we did nine thousand years ago (ok ok last month) We get discouraged because we are so bad, such sinners, and he must be right....So why do we choose lies so easily and it's so hard to believe the truth that God says? There's the struggle.... God says Today if put before you a choice. Life or death blessings or cursings....Life comes from the Father and Blessings....Death and cursings come from the enemy. Choose LIFE! God even made the choice easy...He told us which to choose. Follow life and kick the butt of the enemy....You CAN do it.....every day

Bendito said:

You CAN do it.....every day

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I can dig it. This post would be more of a help than a hurt to those in struggles. Love it Bendito. Well said brother.

For me, it is a process of separating whether one goes to hell or not. Some examples in scripture are:

• Sheep to heaven, goats to hell
• Fruit bearing trees to heaven, non-bearing trees burned or to hell
• Wheat goes to heaven, Chaff separated out for burning or to hell.

There is truly only one type believer, the one that is "Born Again" with Christ in them. Of the examples above, the only ones going to heaven are examples of those who have Christ indwelt in them. Like Jesus told Nicodemus, you must be "Born Again"!

Dave M said:

Those who don't bear good fruit (John 15:1-2)

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It is his righteousness through you
It is his holiness through you
It is his blamelessness through you
It is his good fruit / works through you

Dave M said:

hose who don't keep the commandments (Matthew 7:21-23)

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This is not as much as keeping his commandments as it is having him inside you. even the Devil believes in Jesus but refuse to accept him as a personal Savior. In the end, many will call on Jesus, but it is too late. Believing and being "Born Again" are two different things.

Dave M said:

Those who have no compassion for those in lesser circumstances and don't feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give water to those thirsty (Matthew 25:31-46)

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This is more about Sheep vs. Goats

Dave M said:

Make sure you're not one of them. Bear good fruit, keep the commandments, have compassion for the poor, don't get carried away and use your gifts to profit the Lord.

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Have you genuinely accepted Jesus as your personal Savior, have you opened the door of your heart and invited him in? I pray so!

Ceptor said:

I can dig it. This post would be more of a help than a hurt to those in struggles. Love it Bendito. Well said brother.

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LOL In reading it I learned one thing....Slow down. did you see all those typos? Poor thing for a wordweaver like me to display.

I realize that this is moving away from the opening thread, but I will give reason for myself by saying it is in line with the current postings.

We look at overcoming as if we are the purveyors of our own victory!! Yes we are the ones who struggle. For in the likeness of Christ we too suffer as he also suffered. So with that being said, do we turn and run, or face it like our Lord did?

Charles Spurgeon said it rightly when we feel ourselves giving up that we should keep in mind. "To flee the conflict will be to lose the joys of the new and better Eden; to fight unto victory is to walk with God in paradise."

So we continue battling, holding fast to our faith in Jesus. Ceptor is correct in that we fall, we pick ourselves back up. How's' that baseball saying go "It ain't over till its over".

As long as we have life in Jesus Christ we continue the race for the goal set before us. For anyone that figures that "Overcomer" has to be a "now" complete total victory in all things. Needs to look at what Paul wrote in the 7th Chapter of Romans.

Then take a look after that in Romans 8:38-39 when he says after acknowledging the condition we battle with, "For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Each moment we live is a learning one, a growing one in Christ Jesus. If we walk as He did, yes we will face struggles with much suffering just as He did. Yet victory is assured and an end to these struggles. Why? "The sting of death [is] sin, and the strength of sin [is] the law. But thanks [be] to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."

It brings to mind a song I remember singing as a child, while marching with other children and why it pertains to this subject I really can't say, but am prompted to write it. Which thinking of right now I can't help smiling about. The opening stanza went something like this:

Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
with the cross of Jesus going on before.
Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe;
forward into battle see his banners go!

Until our last breath. As each barrier falls before our resolve to not give up, bringing it before the Lord, seeking and using all the weapons at our disposal, this includes Holy Spirit power. Remembering "‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’ Says the LORD of hosts." We get closer to that promise mentioned in Revelation 2:7

To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

No matter the obstacles that we may face in this world or this life. We never surrender the faith in which our hope rests which is Jesus Christ. :thumbsup: Also, keep in mind that we have each other to help us to remember this great Love we have in Him!

With the Love of Jesus Christ I pray I have added a little more hope to what we all go through in our lives. Until that Day my dear Brothers & Sisters in Christ Jesus!
YBIC
C4E
<><

Dave M said:

I admit this is a copy and paste from face book, but man I thought it was powerful and wanted to know what you think???

. This almost suggest that works can get you in or keep you out??? what are you thoughts???
Of course if you have a strong faith these things should probably come natural to you.


According to the Gospels, there are five types of Believers that will be rejected on the day of judgement:

- Those who don't bear good fruit (John 15:1-2)

- Those who don't keep the commandments (Matthew 7:21-23)

- Those who have no compassion for those in lesser circumstances and don't feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give water to those thirsty (Matthew 25:31-46)

- The one who says ‘My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the other servants, men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk (Luke 12:41-48)

- Those who do not make a profit for the Lord with what he has given them (Luke 19:11-27)



Make sure you're not one of them. Bear good fruit, keep the commandments, have compassion for the poor, don't get carried away and use your gifts to profit the Lord.

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well, if you just quote those verses alone out of context, it can seem that way, but actually is not because faith without works is dead, these works are a result of your faith...if we have the spirit, He will guide us to do these things. It's whether we are committed to follow them or not. Some believers may say oh, I believe but I'm not going to do this things...well, maybe they don't really know why Jesus came. I think everyone is learning and I think that everyone has a capacity to follow Jesus after they are set free from sin. These things are NOT HARD to do.