Jesus_is_LORD said:

So I was talking to by Father about this, a retired( still active) minister from the church and he shared a perspective that I want to share.

It goes against what I previously stated in the post. To fully understand you must listen first and make judgments after. Otherwise you will tune it all out while you are reading it and miss what I'm trying to communicate.

So my father was saying that Adam and Eve never had eternal life. They had life that came from God but not the life of God. He states that just because God is the source of that life, it does not mean that it is the life of God. For example he stated that all life comes from God ultimately but all life is not the life of God(Eternal life). His example was animals, their life came from God but they don't have eternal life.

Now back to Adam and Eve, it is clearly noted that they had life and that their ability to live on and on was being sustained by the tree of life. It was not that they already had eternal life but that the tree of life allowed them to continue to live. Which is why after they sin the concern was not that they were now stained for eternity because they had eternal life, but the concern was that they should not eat again from the tree which give them life continuously (Daily Bread) to sustain them one day at a time. If they already had eternal life to begin with God would had to have taken it away from them for them to lose it, but since they didn't have eternal life, but had the opportunity to be renewed eternally each day by the tree of life, the solution was just to cut their access to the tree of life.

Genesis 3:22: "Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—”

In terms of being in the presence of God or walking with God. My father stated that Adam and Eve were in the presence of God and God's glory reflected on them because they were close to Him in terms of relationship, but they did not have the life of God(eternal life) which is the Holy Spirit living in them. It is only because of the death of Jesus that we now have the ability to have God in us. Not just with us as Adam did, but surely inside of us. His eternal life.

Let me know your thoughts.

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What Adam and Eve retained is what each of us has before we really met the Master. Men call it life, but God calls it death for in the end of our course, if it is all that we have we will not be with Him thereafter. Consider this verse:

"That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9

This verse is not speaking of a person being born again, but of a person being born to a natural women of flesh. This little bit of light is I believe what makes it possible to for anyone to come to the Lord and partake of the real Life that Jesus is. Many people do not. They say they are alive, but without partaking of Jesus, there is no real life. There is only death. Some people suppress their little candle of light until it is too late:

"For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out." Prov 24:20

And here speaking of Babylon, we see that the light is to be put off for those who remain in confusion [Babylon]

"And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. " Rev 18:23

Light is necessary to see, both in the natural and in the spiritual. To see the things of God requires more than we have when we are born of woman.

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Rev 3:18

To read the Book [the Bible] with any understanding requires that our eyes be anointed, so we are all given that small light at our natural birth [John 1:9], but we must move beyond that to really see as Jesus indicates here when he quotes the prophet Isaiah:

Jesus quotes another prophet here:

"He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." John 12:40

But Jesus did not leave everyone blind and He did not and does not limit us to only one touch:

Mar 8:21 And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?
Mar 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
Mar 8:23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
Mar 8:24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mar 8:25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

A freind of mine who is a pastor stated this "God will not judge any before the law was written by Moses, as I understand it. For God is just and Righteous"

Dave M said:

A freind of mine who is a pastor stated this "God will not judge any before the law was written by Moses, as I understand it. For God is just and Righteous"

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Rather will not God judge in accord with what has been given to each person? The following verse applies to every person who has ever lived either prior to the sacrifice of Jesus or after it:


"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

Did not God give Adam and Eve something? Did He not give them the ability to choose God's Way or their own? Did He not give them the ability to understand what it meant to disobey Him?

What is written in Joshua has always applied, has it not?

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15

@Jesus_is_LORD
Interesting! However your conclusion makes me then wonder how this verse in Revelation fits in.

'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.' Revelation 2:7

Of cause there are other references in Revelation that also mention the Tree of Life, but the above passage is to this rendering of this perspective you have shared with us.

Which then brings us to Enoch who walked with God. I don't know of him being filled with the Holy Spirit, unless "walked with God" was an OT phrase of being indwelled with the Holy Spirit. So, if he still did not see the physical death. We assume that he yet lives, making it needful for him to partake of the Tree of Life in paradise to sustain the physical while the spiritual is Eternal due to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

For me there are too many variables to this perspective that Adam & Eve did not have Eternal Life, but a Continually Sustaining One from the Tree of Life. If this were the case. I'm more of the mind that it was their connection with God, and in the case of believers the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that provides Eternal Life. So, without which none could live Eternally Spiritually. While the Tree of Life is that which sustains the physical part of man. With Adam & Eve having been severed from both the connection with God due to sin/disobedience and the tree of life to sustain the body. They died. This might also, provide why the Grieving of the Holy Spirit as the unpardonable sin would insure a separation from God and so death.

Very interesting. Thanks brother for sharing and thank your Father as well!
God's blessings to you and yours.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Christ4Ever said:

@Jesus_is_LORD
Interesting! However your conclusion makes me then wonder how this verse in Revelation fits in.

'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.' Revelation 2:7

Of cause there are other references in Revelation that also mention the Tree of Life, but the above passage is to this rendering of this perspective you have shared with us.

Which then brings us to Enoch who walked with God. I don't know of him being filled with the Holy Spirit, unless "walked with God" was an OT phrase of being indwelled with the Holy Spirit. So, if he still did not see the physical death. We assume that he yet lives, making it needful for him to partake of the Tree of Life in paradise to sustain the physical while the spiritual is Eternal due to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

For me there are too many variables to this perspective that Adam & Eve did not have Eternal Life, but a Continually Sustaining One from the Tree of Life. If this were the case. I'm more of the mind that it was their connection with God, and in the case of believers the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that provides Eternal Life. So, without which none could live Eternally Spiritually. While the Tree of Life is that which sustains the physical part of man. With Adam & Eve having been severed from both the connection with God due to sin/disobedience and the tree of life to sustain the body. They died. This might also, provide why the Grieving of the Holy Spirit as the unpardonable sin would insure a separation from God and so death.

Very interesting. Thanks brother for sharing and thank your Father as well!
God's blessings to you and yours.
YBIC
Nick
<><

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You're welcome my brother. The WORD is rich and there is much to explore, and we won't fully understand it all
until Jesus returns. But until then, let's keep dividing the WORD of truth. Amen.

A Christian can NEVER lose their salvation, but they can loose their life on this earth. There was a Christian man in the New Testament scriptures that was living with his fathers wife!!! You can be sure they were not just sitting around at home playing "Monopoly". The Church were this man was attending knew about it, but never said anything to him. ( 1 Cor 5:1) Paul scolds the Church for letting this to continue, and then he tells them what they must do the next time they are gathered together.

1Cor 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Cor 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

If this man never stopped doing what he knew was wrong, his physical life would have come to a end sooner than later, but his spirit would have been saved when Jesus returned.

Adam and Eve never did eat from the "tree of life" which is why God drove them out of the garden so they would not eat from it and live forever in darkness.

Jesus is the tree of life that gives eternal life.

Pro 3:18 Wisdom is a tree of life to those who embrace her; happy are those who hold her tightly.

Pro 3:16 She offers you long life in her right hand, and riches and honor in her left.

Of course this is talking about "Wisdom" which Jesus just so happens to be.

1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Adam and Eve walked with God in the cool of the garden, but God now walks "inside" us as we are his temple, and body!!!

2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

There is a huge difference between walking with God on the outside, and having him Walk inside us!!!!