Samson2020 said:

Job 1:7 "And the Lord said unto Satan, whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8- And the Lord said unto Satan, hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is non like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9- Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, doth Job fear God for nought?

10- Hast thou not made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11-But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

12-And the Lord said unto Satan, behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord."

Sounds like Satan was given a job to do by God with one stipulation???? Which we know that it was for the benefit of Job in the end as an answer to Jobs prayer.

John 13:27 " And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him. That thou doest do quickly." Did Jesus know Satan was in Judas? I think so. So who was Jesus talking too? Judas or Satan? If it was Satan then Jesus was giving him an order in this case to carry out his own betrayal. Which eventually was for our good.

Obviously i'm in the camp that says the toaster is not at war with the one who made it. But can someone enlighten as to how Jesus tells us he was a liar from the beginning but yet it is widely held he was a fallen angel who's rebellion got him cast out of the heavenly realm?

These different views of Satan do not seem to mesh at all.

And lastly, if he really was at war with God why doesn't God just destroy his own creation? But rather locks him up for 1000 years then lets him out to deceive the nations?

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Everything Acts quoted is true with one little exception. Satan is OUR enemy according to the purposes of God to provide an ADVERSARY for US to overcome. He cannot deceive God nor can he tempt God but US he can do both. Through false doctrine, physical temptations, temporal temptations. His main 3 temptations are for provision, protection, and possessions. These 3 things are what he tried to use on Jesus and he does the same to us.

As was stated above Satan was given a Job with 1 stipulation. He had to mind it and he did.
A good Father that wants his children to grow up strong and wise and provides exercises for his children. In our case SPIRITUAL.

PloughBoy said:

What part did you not understand sir, about not replying to my post. Maybe I did not make it clear. With Godly kindness do not reply to my post, please. And I say that in the “name of Jesus”!

you need not reply.

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Correction. You said....

PloughBoy said:

I am not going to address you. Anymore. You need not to reply.

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So that means if I do happen to reply, you wouldnt.

Furthermore, I dont see where you are capable of silencing me. I am not being rude nor belligerent. But I will correct you in something that is clearly wrong. You dont have to respond, but I will make sure everyone can see the evidence when they read here.

Contemporary English Version
Don't let anyone forget these things. And with God as your witness, you must warn them not to argue about words. These arguments don't help anyone. In fact, they ruin everyone who listens to them.
2 Tim. 2:14

New American Standard 1977
Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless, and leads to the ruin of the hearers.

And GOD spoke to the Devil and said: “Although thou Movedst me against him to destroy him without cause...ff.

3And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. 4And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. 5But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. 6And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
“God’s Buddys system”!

PloughBoy said:

The Devil is not GOD’S enemy, what ever The Devil does , he has permission to do it from God. GOD created him, God created “a perfect Adversary” , “ a Perfect Deceiver” that is his name. He is Perfect ,no one is like him! ❤

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There are at least six judgments associated with Satan:

1. He was barred from his original privileged position in Heaven (Ezekiel 28:16).
2. Judgment for his temptation of Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:14-15).
3. At the cross of Calvary (John 12:31).
4. Satan will be barred from Heaven during the tribulation period (Revelation 12:13).
5. Satan will be confined to the abyss during the millennium (Revelation 20:2).

At the conclusion of the millennium, Satan will be cast into the lake of fire for all eternity (Revelation 20:10).

The Fall of Satan (Isaiah 14)

The Verses that relate to Satan’s Fall go as follows:

• I Will… Take Gods place
• Ascend into heaven Acts 1:9-11
• Exalt my throne Rev. 22:1
• Govern heaven Isa. 2:1-4
• Ascend above the heights Phil. 2:9
• Be like the Most High Gen. 14:19, 22
• “Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell,
• to the sides of the pit. “

Ascend into heaven

The ultimate desire of Satan was to take God’s place. Lucifer’s first attempt involved his ascent into the abode of God. The Bible identifies three heavens. The first heaven is the sky surrounding our planet, the atmosphere. The second heaven is the stellar heaven which is apparently the abode of angels. The third heaven is the dwelling place of God. When Lucifer determined to ascend into heaven, he sought to move into the third heaven, the dwelling place of God. Satan wanted to ascend above the position and place where he was created and assume the place of his Creator.

Exalt his throne

Satan sought authority over the other angels. Satan wanted to be exalted above the stars. The term “star” is often used in the Bible to identify angels (Rev. 1:20; 12:4). Some commentators believe Satan ruled the angels as an archangel along with Michael and Gabriel. If this were the case, Satan then sought to expand his sphere of authority over Michael and Gabriel and those angels they ruled. This would make Satan the ultimate authority in heaven, perhaps taking the place of God over the angels. If this trinity of archangels exited before the Fall, it may explain why a third of the angels fell with Satan (Rev. 12:4).

Govern heaven

Satan desired to “sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north” (Isa. 14:13). The phrase “mount of the congregation” is an expression relating to ruling in the kingdom of God (Isa. 2:1-4). Lucifer seemed to be saying, “I want a share in the kingdom.” The problem was he wanted God’s share. The “north side” is a term relating to God’s presence in Scripture (Ps. 75:6, 7). During the millennial reign of Christ, Christ will rule this earth from the north (Ps. 48:2).

Ascend above the heights

There can be no question that Satan was prepared to attempt a coup in heaven. His desire was not simply to get closer to God but to surpass God. “I will ascend above the heights of the clouds” (Isa. 14:14). Clouds are often used to refer to the glory of God. In fact, 100 of the 150 uses of the word “cloud” in the King James Version have to do with divine glory. Satan sought glory for himself that surpassed the glory of God. Paul revealed the ultimate desire of Satan when he wrote, “who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God” (2 Thess. 2:4).

Just a few questions William. All that you wrote is true, but where did the initial ideas that Satan has in his heart/mind whatever come from? And who put them there?
And finally is it necessary that the deceiver believe he has a chance of success in order to do his job to the max? I.E. is the deceiver deceived?

LOL, one thing for sure, you are a highly decorated student of “plagiarism”.
One thing for sure, you don’t know anything about “The Revelation of Jesus Christ”!

what even made you think “Satan” still has access to “Heaven”! But you know what: “I going to very kind with you”. Because you are about “green as a “avocado” in Texas! And I like you! And you are trying, yes you are, bless your little heart. But we are going to throw that little bitty bowl of “Louisiana Gumbo” you throw out here on the table. And we are going to set out , some “Prime Rib”! Now I do like “Louisiana Gumbo” my favorite! But I’m sorry not today, Just breaking the ice don’t get mad. ❤

For starters I am not going to argue about “The Revelation of Jesus Christ” you all over the board. But concerning The GOD I served, HE is “Sovereign“ , HE is “ Infinite“ , HE is “Creator” of all things that exists, “visible” and “invisible”, HE Created the “Solar Systems” not only the earth the Sun , the moon, but also the “Galaxies” and that as we know and maybe more than a trillion “Galaxies” there are over a trillion stars or better in each “Galaxy” and every planet or star is in order because they “Obey the “GOD” whom I serve. The winds obeys HIM, The Darkness obeys HIM, the day and light obey HIM. Why, because HE is GOD! The GOD whom I serve, the “finite” mind cannot comprehend HIM for HE is “Infinite”! “The finite being cannot “comprehend the incomprehensible”. So how can a “Adversary” something as small as a mere Angel, a creature who My GOD created to be a “Adversary” not to HIM but to a fallen creature name Adam [humans]. Michael and his Angel s ,his Army has defeated him already and cast Him out of Heaven unto the earth., the very day that Jesus ascended into Heaven sitting on the Right Hand of The Father. The “Adversary “ was created to make war with You’!

(Revelation
12Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short.”

I am Sorry, your God, is to small if he has a problem with the devil. The devil I know, cannot even handle “Michael “
You ought to try my GOD!!! I will tell you, HE is “Amesome”. None like HIM, everything obeys HIM even the devil! Oops, not everything, MANkind!

Samson2020 said:

Just a few questions William. All that you wrote is true, but where did the initial ideas that Satan has in his heart/mind whatever come from? And who put them there?
And finally is it necessary that the deceiver believe he has a chance of success in order to do his job to the max? I.E. is the deceiver deceived?

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Yes, absolutely. The deceiver is been deceived by God. Or better said he deceives himself. If there is anybody more clever than him, that's God. So many times we see examples in the scripture where he is trying to accomplish his plan, but at the end he ends up making it worse for him. Like taking Jesus to the cross for example, or the story of Job. All of these things that he was involved in, but without knowing the outcome. In this sense we can say that he works with God. To make myself clear, he doesn't actually realise it. It's just God being so great that he can turn something wrong in something good for us. Romans 8:28. But for that purpose we have to love Him. The same happens with the trials in our life for example. The devil brings them sometimes, but eventually as we go through them our faith gets stronger and we grow in Him.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Curtis, I do declare, you have excellent vision of the text! Concerning these matters!

Acts2:38 said:

Yes, that is true. But so is this.....

Satan and God’s people
Satan opposes believers 1Ch 21:1 See also Job 2:1-7; Zec 3:1-2; 1Th 2:18

Satan accuses believers Rev 12:10 See also Job 1:8-11; Zec 3:1-2

Satan slanders believers 1Ti 5:14

Satan tests believers and causes their suffering Rev 2:10 See also Eph 6:11-13,16

Satan opposes the work of the archangel Michael Jude 9 The implication of these verses is that Michael’s work is in direct opposition to that of Satan. Michael is the protector of God’s people while Satan is their opponent: Da 10:13,21; Da 12:1; Rev 12:7

Satan opposes God
Satan opposes God’s purposes Mt 16:23 pp Mk 8:33

Satan opposes God’s word See also Mt 13:3-19 pp Mk 4:3-16 pp Lk 8:4-12 the parable of the sower; Mt 13:24-39 the parable of the weeds and its explanation; Ac 13:8-10 Elymas, the sorcerer, acts on Satan’s behalf to oppose Barnabas and Paul.

Satan opposes God’s righteousness 1Jn 3:7-10

Satan blasphemes God Rev 13:6

Satan’s opposition to God’s work will not succeed
Zec 3:2 God rebukes him; Lk 10:19 His reign is temporary.

Satan’s role as adversary earns him varied titles
The devil He is the adversary because he deceives: Rev 12:9; Rev 20:2-3

Belial He is the adversary because he is the troublemaker or scoundrel (the same Hebrew word is used in the OT passages as in 2Co 6:15 to describe Satan’s work): Dt 13:13; 1Ki 21:10; Pr 6:12; 2Co 6:15

The dragon He is the adversary because he is the enemy: Rev 12:4,13-14

The serpent He is the adversary because he thwarts spiritual insight: Ge 3:1-5,13; 2Co 11:3

The prince of this world He is the adversary because his rule is temporary, not absolute: Jn 12:31; Jn 14:30; Jn 16:11

The angel of the Abyss Rev 9:11 He is the adversary because he is the destroyer.

4121 Satan, as the enemy of God - Dictionary of Bible Themes - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com


And unfortunately you are not wanting to see this. I would highly suggest reading these scriptures if you cared to be fair and not bias.



Funny you place this link here. There are parts here that clearly show that satan and God are not buddy buddy like you claim. You probably should read your links before posting them when they clearly contradict your stance.

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Acts 2:38... What we have here, is a failure to communicate.
Ploughboy states a true reality.
You respond with verses that tell me you didn't listen to Ploughboy.

LoL! David!

You know, some of us need to wear “SunGlasses” when reading, some of the posts, posted on “TalkJesus”!

David1954 said:

Acts 2:38... What we have here, is a failure to communicate.
Ploughboy states a true reality.
You respond with verses that tell me you didn't listen to Ploughboy.

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No, read his OP again, then look right here to what I responded to....

PloughBoy said:

The Devil is not GOD’S enemy, what ever The Devil does , he has permission to do it from God.

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Yes, God grants permission...

But they are at war. Hence the many verses I provided.

Who needs sunglasses now? And who has a failure to communicate?

David1954 said:

Acts 2:38... What we have here, is a failure to communicate.
Ploughboy states a true reality.
You respond with verses that tell me you didn't listen to Ploughboy.

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Also, he was not able to defend himself once I laid those verses before him. I doubt you can either since they are pretty straight forward.

LOL

Samson2020 said:

Just a few questions William. All that you wrote is true, but where did the initial ideas that Satan has in his heart/mind whatever come from? And who put them there?
And finally is it necessary that the deceiver believe he has a chance of success in order to do his job to the max? I.E. is the deceiver deceived?

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FREE WILL it says he became proud and like people he desired what was not his to have. Before that NO fault was found in him. How long did Satan live BEFORE man was created? 1000's, millions, Billions the Bible is full of things
that we do not know. I do understand free will and choice you can not stand before God an claim "God made me do it" Or Satan made me do it. we all make choices good or bad they are ours to make. The Angels are no different.
Mostly like in Job he was the accuser but more than that he wanted God to raise his hand against Job. "But stretch out Your hand and strike everything he owns, and he will surely curse You to Your face.”
He challenged God's sovereignty he didn't question God's power but his right to rule. God can deceive the one who is evil to do is work.... to test someone, prove that Job was faithful. God has the power to FORCE anyone to
do anything he wishes but some things can't be forced. Your obedience ...yes but your love your trust your faith in his Sovereignty the answer is no I suppose he could make a bunch of zombies with no mind of there own but then
we would not be in Gods image we would be devoid of Love, compassion, free will thought and reason. God cannot sin....God is LOVE. We love because he loved us first. There is no choice but free will. Just as .......
"Eve was deceived but Adam was not"

William L. P. said:

Mostly like in Job he was the accuser but more than that he wanted God to raise his hand against Job. "But stretch out Your hand and strike everything he owns, and he will surely curse You to Your face.”

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God was the one that put him up to the task in the first place.

William L. P. said:

He challenged God's sovereignty he didn't question God's power but his right to rule

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Not sure where you got that idea?

William L. P. said:

There is no choice but free will.

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Romans 9:19 "Thou wilt then say unto me. Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Romans 9:20 "Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

I suppose your on the face of the earth as a choice you made too? And your making it sound like election is by your choice not Gods? And where did the spirit that resides in your body come from? No one can stop his will and if some of those on this site really understood that will they would be glad that his will is the one being accomplished.