Curtis said:

Do you think praying to God the Father is called private prayer?

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People falsely call it a private prayer.

Curtis said:

1Co 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

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That doesn't mean it is a prayer.
It means they are speaking when no one but God understands, for God knows all the earthly languages.

Curtis said:

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.

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Again, they were to pray and interpret or they would have a fruitless mind.

Curtis said:

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

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Trust in the LORD with all thine heart and lean not unto thine own understanding BUT ALWAYS DO WHAT HE SAYS and He will then give you understanding.

If you don't do what He says and obey Him, then you won't receive understanding.

Proverbs 1:23 Repent at my rebuke! Then I will pour out my thoughts to you, I will make known to you my teachings.
John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."
Psalm 25:14 The LORD confides in those who fear Him, and reveals His covenant to them.
Proverbs 3:32 for the LORD detests the perverse, but He is a friend to the upright.
Psalm 119:100 I have more understanding than the elders, for I obey your precepts.
Daniel 9:13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.
John 8:30 Even as he spoke, many believed in him. 31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

Oh how I love the Word of God!

Curtis said:

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Has the Church already come to the full stature of the fullness of Christ?
No, it has not, which means we still have apostles today until it does!

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An apostle is someone who was taught from Jesus and helped lay the foundation. There are no more apostles. The scriptures are finished.

God's Truth said:

An apostle is someone who was taught from Jesus and helped lay the foundation. There are no more apostles. The scriptures are finished.

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You are incorrect! There are only 12 "Apostles of the Lamb", but there are many more than that as Paul was an Apostle, but he was not an Apostle of the lamb. Jesus was an Apostle but not one of the 12. Epaphroditus was an apostle but not one of the 12. There are also many apostles today in the Church!

God's Truth said:

People falsely call it a private prayer.

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Then you do not believe scripture?

God's Truth said:

That doesn't mean it is a prayer.
It means they are speaking when no one but God understands, for God knows all the earthly languages.

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So talking to God either in tongues or with the understanding is not called prayer?

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

I thought prayer actually means prayer.

God's Truth said:

A person isn't to have a fruitless mind. Period.

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That is opinion not scripture nor doctrine.

God's Truth said:

That is against the teachings of the Bible.

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No that is against your backslider doctrine.
You add to scripture.
You offer opinion as doctrine.
You ignore posts that confound you.
You doggedly continue with the same errors believing that having the last word will win the argument.
You are in denial of the worldwide Pentecostal revivals happening as it was in the beginning with these signs shall follow them that believe - tongues, healings, miracles, conversions, people being set free.
You are a child of Rome, and preach another gospel that is not what Jesus and the apostles gave to us.

Curtis said:

You are incorrect! There are only 12 "Apostles of the Lamb", but there are many more than that as Paul was an Apostle, but he was not an Apostle of the lamb. Jesus was an Apostle but not one of the 12. Epaphroditus was an apostle but not one of the 12. There are also many apostles today in the Church!

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There are no more apostles. The apostles were taught by Jesus directly and not with verbal teachings by men and scriptures that we now have, for they are the reason for the scriptures.
All the people you know who you think are apostles, they were taught by men and women.
You belong to a denomination.

Curtis said:

Then you do not believe scripture?

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No scripture says what you say.

Curtis said:

So talking to God either in tongues or with the understanding is not called prayer?

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

I thought prayer actually means prayer.

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You called it "private prayer" times. The scriptures doesn't call it that.

1 Corinthians 14

2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.


If you speak in a language no one know, not even you, then you are only speaking to God, for God know all earthly languages.


4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church


If a person speaks in a tongue no one knows, then the tongue speaker is just edifying themselves, because they are edified by having an amazing gift from God, the real tongues is an amazing gift.

5I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.


Paul says speaking in a language all understand is what edifies all.


6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? 7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.


Think about it, if you speak in tongues aloud, and no one understands, then you are just speaking into the air.



10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. 11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. 12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

If someone speaks where no one understands, you will be as foreigners without understanding to each other.

13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

If a person spoke in an unknown tongue pray, he should pray that he may interpret.
For when it comes to praying in an unknown tongue, and you don't interpret what you are praying, then you understanding is UNFRUITFUL.

14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

So it is when you pray, as it is when you sing and when you bless! Interpret what you say!

15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

If you don't understand what you are saying, you are like those who do not hear the Lord.
Tongues are a sign to them that don't believe and it caused some to hear and believe, yet some did not.
People speaking in tongues, when they don't understand it is unfruitful for them.

Waggles said:

That is opinion not scripture nor doctrine.

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You say it is good to have an unfruitful mind is your false beliefs.

Waggles said:

No that is against your backslider doctrine.
You add to scripture.
You offer opinion as doctrine.
You ignore posts that confound you.
You doggedly continue with the same errors believing that having the last word will win the argument.
You are in denial of the worldwide Pentecostal revivals happening as it was in the beginning with these signs shall follow them that believe - tongues, healings, miracles, conversions, people being set free.
You are a child of Rome, and preach another gospel that is not what Jesus and the apostles gave to us.

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You aren't speaking the truth about me.

Samson2020 said:

In the immortal words of Glenn Campbell in True Grit "You couldn't see it if you saw it."

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Glen Campbell's words are not immoral, but Jesus Christ's words are.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

For saved believers to seek proof of salvation or having received the Holy Spirit by that sign of tongues, they have become an adulterous generation as they seek to receive spirits as the world does by seeing it happen. This is vanity and a departure from he faith in Jesus Christ because there is only one drink of the One Spirit that we were all baptized by into that body of Christ.

So it is by not seeing the reception, but by your believing in Jesus Christ is how you will know the Holy Ghost is in you.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Galatians 3: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.....25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

May the Lord Jesus Christ deliver you from your chains to this iniquity in these latter days where faith is hard to find. If not, He will deliver you from it even though left behind as you will be made to hear His voice and follow Him rather than a stranger's voice which is what tongues without interpretation is. John 10:1-5; John 10:14-16

Phedup said:

If I can take it back a step further; there are no "tounges." I suggest that when Paul was inventing a new religion for the gentiles that he borrowed the apostle/holy spirit/crowed event to borrown upon that authenticity to create an event for this new tribe of Paluline Christians to bind them together and connect them to the Christians. Like we see the attempt here to use this "tounge" event for inclusion/exclusion in this forum. The exuberance of the believer transformed into a nonsensical language can never by authenticated in Paul's tounges. In the apostle's tounges they spoke a known language. They are not the same thing at all.

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Paul gave the bottom line on what the God's gift of tongues are for which is for God to speak unto the people in their native language in spite of believers wresting his words to mean otherwise in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Tongue speakers today are departing from faith by believing they can receive the Holy Ghost by a sign of tongues as proof of salvation. Some believed and were saved before they went up to the altar seeking proof of salvation.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Now you need to get off of that false teaching about Paul being a false apostle because Peter did testify the epistles of Paul to be the same as scripture.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Now I put this out here; " If " you are trying to defend homosexuality by attacking Christianity, you are not doing yourself any favors nor the LGBTQ+ communities. They need Jesus Christ to save them from their sins and keep them from their sins as many saved believer here are to rely on Him to keep them from their sins and not just turn to for forgiveness of sins and His help not to do that again, in thought, word, or deed. That is what running that race is all about, walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son 1 John 1:3-9 in helping us to lay aside every weight & sin daily ( Hebrews 12:1-2 ) so we can be accepted by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House when the Bridegroom comes. 2 Corinthians 5:7-11

@Curtis

To speak more about praying while speaking in tongues...Tongues aren't a special "prayer language" for private prayer times.

Those practicing the false tongue speaking believe they are speaking a special "prayer language", and that in this type of praying it is somehow deeper and more personal than praying with their native language with words they understand. However, that is not scriptural, and that even goes against the Word of God which says you will have a fruitless mind if you pray like that. Surely, a fruitless mind is not something one should be aiming for in personal prayer times.

Tongues aren't a special prayer language, Speaking in tongues is speaking in languages, and, a person who could speak in tongues/languages, they could do anything while speaking in tongues, like pray, sing, bless...everything a person speaking in their own language can do in the Spirit. You, though, however, are making it as if praying when no one understands is a special prayer language. That is not what the scriptures are saying. Speaking in tongues while praying when you don't understand is fruitless.

God's Truth said:

You called it "private prayer" times. The scriptures doesn't call it that.

1 Corinthians 14

2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.


If you speak in a language no one know, not even you, then you are only speaking to God, for God know all earthly languages.

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GodB4Us said:

For saved believers to seek proof of salvation or having received the Holy Spirit by that sign of tongues, they have become an adulterous generation as they seek to receive spirits as the world does by seeing it happen. This is vanity and a departure from he faith in Jesus Christ because there is only one drink of the One Spirit that we were all baptized by into that body of Christ.

So it is by not seeing the reception, but by your believing in Jesus Christ is how you will know the Holy Ghost is in you.

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What a load of garbage.
You deny red letter words spoken by our Lord Himself, whose words were those of His Father, that the true believer would receive those things and do those things. Therefore,
you deny the word of God. Mark 16:17-18

We who really do have the Spirit dwelling in us hear His voice. I suppose that would not be acceptable to you either because it is not just by faith??? We now KNOW!!!!!!!
However to do what He requests of you does require faith to carry out the task of the spoken word you received of Him.
"Faith cometh by HEARING"

I am astounded at the energy and time spent to disprove what the true believer KNOWS to be true as they have lived it and continue to live it day by day.
One is not led by the Spirit of God unless one can HEAR the Spirit leading them.

The believer does not need to seek proof as proof is provided by the Lord to the believer as He sees fit. Whether that be casting out an unclean spirit, laying on of hands as He
directs etc..... These we do not ask for, but are glad that we get the opportunity to serve Him as He requests.
If one or more things that He has said the believer will do becomes reality for the believer, then the rest of those things mentioned are also for the believer.

God's Truth said:

There are no more apostles. The apostles were taught by Jesus directly a

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Hmmm... was Barnabas directly taught by Jesus?

Acts 14:14; But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their robes and rushed out into the crowd, crying out

How about Stephen?

Acts 6:8; And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people.

Samson2020 said:

What a load of garbage.
You deny red letter words spoken by our Lord Himself, whose words were those of His Father, that the true believer would receive those things and do those things. Therefore,
you deny the word of God. Mark 16:17-18

We who really do have the Spirit dwelling in us hear His voice. I suppose that would not be acceptable to you either because it is not just by faith??? We now KNOW!!!!!!!
However to do what He requests of you does require faith to carry out the task of the spoken word you received of Him.
"Faith cometh by HEARING"

I am astounded at the energy and time spent to disprove what the true believer KNOWS to be true as they have lived it and continue to live it day by day.
One is not led by the Spirit of God unless one can HEAR the Spirit leading them.

The believer does not need to seek proof as proof is provided by the Lord to the believer as He sees fit. Whether that be casting out an unclean spirit, laying on of hands as He
directs etc..... These we do not ask for, but are glad that we get the opportunity to serve Him as He requests.
If one or more things that He has said the believer will do becomes reality for the believer, then the rest of those things mentioned are also for the believer.

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Let's put this to you in this way as the Lord ministers;

Nicodemus had asked Jesus how one can be born again and Jesus said it will not be so obvious for like when one is born of the flesh from the mother's womb and so there is no way one can tell from the outside when one is born again happens, because there is no tell tale proof for that individual believer for that moment when he is born again of the Spirit.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Which is the cause for Nicodemus's next question, but Jesus answered Nicodemus's question below as to when & how a sinner gets born again and that this was to take place after His ascension which was after His crucifixion for whenever any one believes in Jesus Christ.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

How easy would it be for Jesus to answer Nicodemus's question by saying when one is born again of the Spirit, he will speak in tongues? Pretty easy and yet Jesus did not say that, now did He?

Just like those who insist water baptism is a requirement for salvation. Then Jesus could answer Nicodemus's question as to when and how one is born again of the Spirit by being water baptized in His name, but He did not say that either.

By believing in Jesus Christ is how on is born again of the Spirit. To not believe that we had received the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ, saved believers are committing spiritual adultery by seeking to receive the promise by a sign instead.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

So repent today and departing from following a stranger's voice by shunning praying in tongues and instead pray normally so that you may know what you had prayed for so you can give the Father genuine thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers.

GodB4Us said:

How easy would it be for Jesus to answer Nicodemus's question by saying when one is born again of the Spirit, he will speak in tongues? Pretty easy and yet Jesus did not say that, now did He?

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But He did say it according to Mark 16:17-18 just not necessarily to Nicodemus, but there was always a difference between those that were outside the circle and those within (disciples)
Not to mention these things were said by Him AFTER His death and resurrection.

GodB4Us said:

By believing in Jesus Christ is how on is born again of the Spirit. To not believe that we had received the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ, saved believers are committing spiritual adultery by seeking to receive the promise by a sign instead.

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No, one must believe in God that God hath raised Jesus from the dead, and that Jesus is Lord. Romans 10:9

Again one does not need to seek those things because the Lord will require you to step up and do some of them as He presents them to you. If He says go pray for him, and there is a man standing right in front of you, thats what you do, go pray for Him. Sometimes it's strange but you still do it. If He allows you to hear an unclean spirit within someone you cast it out in His name. Again these are experiences that He provides to the new believer to show them who they are in Him. Nobody has to seek those things. He will openly show these signs
and wonders through the believer for the edification of whomsoever the prayer or the casting out is for.

Do not discount what the Holy Ghost provides for the believer just because you do not have the same testimony. Indeed without that type of testimony one is just another
Bible thumper, without the Spirit.
And without the Spirit ye are NONE OF HIS.