Catholics gave vast money to priests who claimed they could get 'the souls' of dead relatives freed from Purgatory and sent on to heaven.
This is still being taught in various places in America, Canada and elsewhere.

complete said:

'And all things are of God,
who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ,
and hath given to us (Paul and his fellow-workers)
the ministry of reconciliation;
To wit, that God was in Christ,
reconciling the world unto Himself,
not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ,
as though God did beseech you by us:
we pray you in Christ's stead,
be ye reconciled to God.
For He hath made Him to be sin for us,
Who knew no sin;
that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.'
(2Cor. 5:18)

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Says Paul, whatever he actually meant by all of that.

complete said:

not imputing their trespasses unto them;

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Forgiveness by the Father through repentance is indeed the Gospel.

Not sure why it needed to be repeated in different words, though.

Blessings,
Rhema

Rhema said:

Says Paul, whatever he actually meant by all of that.

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Says the Holy Spirit and whatsoever he meant.

Rhema said:

Says Paul, whatever he actually meant by all of that.


Forgiveness by the Father through repentance is indeed the Gospel.

Not sure why it needed to be repeated in different words, though.

Blessings,
Rhema

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Your semantics need pulling up?

Ref: (2Cor. 5:18) reply#340

Hello there,@Rxlx, @Rhema, @Garee,

I love the fact that God, was 'in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.'
I love the fact that God was 'reconciling us to Himself by Jesus Christ'.
I love the fact that God was 'not imputing their (our) trespasses unto them (us)'
How could we fail to be moved by the words. 'For He hath made Him to be sin for us, Who knew no sin,'
Why? 'that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.'

Please do not treat this lightly.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Jessu is GOD's only-begotten son.
His spirit was transferred into Mary's womb in order for him to be born and live as an innocent pure sacrifical lamb upon which all human's sins were placed.
When the lamb died its blood washed away the sins of all who accepted it was the sacrificial lamb.
Obviously the Pharisees and similar refused to accept it and have since paid the price by the pouring out of their own blood millions of times.
This is The Big Picture.
Forget all the subtitles and insertions.

Rxlx said:

Jessu is GOD's only-begotten son.
His spirit was transferred into Mary's womb in order for him to be born and live as an innocent pure sacrifical lamb upon which all human's sins were placed.
When the lamb died its blood washed away the sins of all who accepted it was the sacrificial lamb.
Obviously the Pharisees and similar refused to accept it and have since paid the price by the pouring out of their own blood millions of times.
This is The Big Picture.
Forget all the subtitles and insertions.

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I would suggest it was the Christ as the lamb slain from the foundation . The six days the powerful Father did work finishing all the work of salvation .

Demonstrated outwardly thousands of years later in the garden Gethsemane .The dynamic dual the Father and Son . The Father Christ the one with power . . . bruising the heel of the Son of man Jesus crushing the head of the serpent

Garee said:

I would suggest it was the Christ as the lamb slain from the foundation . The six days the powerful Father did work finishing all the work of salvation .

Demonstrated outwardly thousands of years later in the garden Gethsemane .The dynamic dual the Father and Son . The Father Christ the one with power . . . bruising the heel of the Son of man Jesus crushing the head of the serpent

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No. There was nothing sinful in Creation.
The six days of creation were nothing to do with any salvation.

complete said:

I love the fact that God, was 'in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.'

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Yes, through Jesus' teachings (his word).

complete said:

I love the fact that God was 'reconciling us to Himself by Jesus Christ'.

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Yes, through Jesus' teachings (his word).

complete said:

I love the fact that God was 'not imputing their (our) trespasses unto them (us)'

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Yes, through Jesus' teachings on forgiveness.

complete said:

How could we fail to be moved by the words. 'For He hath made Him to be sin for us, Who knew no sin,'

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Because Jesus never taught this.

complete said:

Why? 'that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.'

Please do not treat this lightly.

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I never treat the teachings of Jesus lightly, nor do I supplant them with the teachings of Paul.

How can you pay a debt that's been forgiven?

Rhema

Rhema said:

Because Jesus never taught this.

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Of course, Christ working in us taught that a theophany or vision of Melchizedek could not make do. literal dying flesh signified as sinful was needed to put away sin in the flesh.

The outward demonstration the law of Christs powerful faith. "Let here be" and "there was flesh". All flesh dies.

Romans 8:2-4;For the law of the( invisable) Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.;For what the law(Death) could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:;That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Introducing the new order or priesthood of believer. male and female prophets sent as apostles no longer after the tribe of Levi destroying all the kingdoms of men.

Psalm 110:3-5Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.;The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

Rhema said:

Yes, through Jesus' teachings (his word).

Yes, through Jesus' teachings (his word).

Yes, through Jesus' teachings on forgiveness.

Because Jesus never taught this.

I never treat the teachings of Jesus lightly, nor do I supplant them with the teachings of Paul.

How can you pay a debt that's been forgiven?

Rhema

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'Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself:
but the Father that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works.
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me:
or else believe me for the very works' sake.'
(Joh 14:10-11)

Hello @Rhema,

The words and works that our Lord did and said were not His own, but the Father's, as you know. Also the doctrines taught by Paul were given to Him by revelation from the risen Christ. They were not his own.

'But rise, and stand upon thy feet:
for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose,
to make thee a minister and a witness
both of these things which thou hast seen,
and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;'
(Act 26:16)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

complete said:

The words and works that our Lord did and said were not His own, but the Father's, as you know.

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So these words were Not Jesus' own words?

(Luke 22:42 KJV)

I trow not.

And what of these words?

(Matthew 5:17-19 KJV)

Were these words done away with?

complete said:

Also the doctrines taught by Paul were given to Him by revelation from the risen Christ. They were not his own.

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The doctrines you speak of came from an angel of light calling itself Jesus. Paul even said this.

But why would Jesus need to give Paul direct revelation? Wasn't the gospel taught by the twelve sufficient?

Jesus did not command the disciples to wait around until some guy named Paul was given the "true" gospel.

(Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)

The text does not say, "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded Paul." And I would note that the book of Matthew was written after the ministry and epistles of Paul.

But I do realize that most Christians do not accept that the teachings of Paul (during his later ministry) are different from those things which Jesus taught. Please realize that I am NOT rejecting that Jesus was the Son of God, sent to "fix" or reform a Judaism that had gone off the rails. Nor do I reject that God raised him from the dead to prove that his teachings and his teachings alone were Truth. I am an Acts 2:38 Christian, and as such have no need to believe that the Gospel preached by Jesus is insufficient for salvation. Nor do I need to believe that Paul is my teacher, being inerrant in those things which Paul wrote.

(Mark 1:14-15 KJV)

If Jesus came preaching the Gospel, then the Gospel is what Jesus preached.

Blessings,
Rhema

complete said:

They were not his own.

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Said Paul.

Rhema said:

So these words were Not Jesus' own words?

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from meLuke 22:42 KJV)

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They are words of an apostle's prophets Gods word working in them

Rhema said:

I never treat the teachings of Jesus lightly, nor do I supplant them with the teachings of Paul.


Rhema

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But you call Jesus a liar! That is not good. Prepare for a bad Judgment Day.

Revelation 21:8; 'But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.'

Rxlx said:

But you call Jesus a liar!

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Your unfounded, and uninformed opinion only.
Where have I ever called Jesus a liar?
(No unhinged replies need be made.)
On the contrary, you have denied Christ before men when rejecting the words of Jesus here:

- Matthew 28:18 KJV

Rhema

Thanks be to God that the book of Revelation is not in our canon - the only canon established by an Apostle.

Rhema said:

So these words were Not Jesus' own words?​

​

Saying, Father, if Thou be willing, remove this cup from Me:​

(Luke 22:42 KJV)​

​

​

Blessings,​

Rhema​

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'I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee (Moses),
and will put My words in His mouth;
and He shall speak unto them all that I shall command Him.
And it shall come to pass,
that whosoever will not hearken unto My words
which He shall speak in My name, I will require it of Him.
(Deu 18:18-19)

Hello @Rhema, (Ref:- reply #353)

Do we distinguish between the words of our Lord, spoken when teaching, from that spoken at other times, in regard to if they be of the Father or not? I believe that every word uttered by the Lord has importance, and do not intend distinguishing between them in this way, no matter what the words are, to whom they are spoken, or the occasion in which they are uttered. All is of God, and nothing recorded lacks relevance or reason.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Rhema said:

Your unfounded, and uninformed opinion only.
Where have I ever called Jesus a liar?
(No unhinged replies need be made.)
On the contrary, you have denied Christ before men when rejecting the words of Jesus here:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

- Matthew 28:18 KJV

Rhema

Thanks be to God that the book of Revelation is not in our canon - the only canon established by an Apostle.

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You called Jesus a liar every time you said Satan isn't ruling Earth right now.

You have serious cognitive dissonance as I've said many times previously.

Rhema said:

Your unfounded, and uninformed opinion only.
Where have I ever called Jesus a liar?
(No unhinged replies need be made.)
On the contrary, you have denied Christ before men when rejecting the words of Jesus here:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

- Matthew 28:18 KJV

Rhema

Thanks be to God that the book of Revelation is not in our canon - the only canon established by an Apostle.

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If you remove that chapter of the book of law then there is no warning not to add or subtract from the perfect sealed with 7 seals till the end of time .

Yes all power of the Father was given to the Son of Man jesus that lived in a earthen body of death appointed to die once. It is blasphemy to say His power is of us
2 Corinthians 4:7 ;But we (no power) have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

complete said:

All is of God, and nothing recorded lacks relevance or reason.

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Like the Didache or the Gospel of Thomas? What of the Acts of Barnabas?

complete said:

(I) do not intend distinguishing between them in this way, no matter what the words are, to whom they are spoken, or the occasion in which they are uttered.

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And yet Jesus said you ought to:

- Matthew 7:15 KJV

- Matthew 24:24-26 KJV

complete said:

(I) do not intend distinguishing between them in this way, no matter what the words are,

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And if these words contradict the actual teachings of Jesus?

The thing is, you do distinguish, if you ascribe to a canon. But who has selected your canon? How did it develop?

I'm sure you realize that the Roman Catholic Church created the canon that you use, and most would say that these Bishops were guided by God. And yet, why do Protestants believe that God guided the Catholic Bishops in selecting the canon, but did not (or was unable to) guide these very same Bishops to preach an accurate Gospel of Salvation? All I ask is that Protestants (sorry, I'm not one - neither Catholic) recognize the conundrum - the contradiction - in their thinking; in their beliefs.

complete said:

I believe that every word uttered by the Lord has importance,

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I would wholeheartedly agree, both the LOGOS word of God, and the RHEMA word of God. But Paul's words are his own, and he had even given advice from his own thoughts and not that of the "Lord." (Just in case I need to cite this: cf. 1st Cor. 7:12.) Don't you think that we ought to look at the actual words written, and not obfuscate, adulterate or mix concepts via religious emotion? That's how we ended up with this doctrine of Hell.

complete said:

Do we distinguish between the words of our Lord, spoken when teaching, from that spoken at other times, in regard to if they be of the Father or not?

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Of course. Do not many, many people claim to be speaking on behalf of either Jesus or the Father? Look around at all these preachers on TV or YouTube saying "The Lord!" "The Lord!" when it is not of (or from) the Lord?

There is only one LOGOS (Word of God) which is the teachings of Jesus - the bread of the Eucharist (as explained in the Didache). And there is only one RHEMA (Word of God) the direct voice of the Father that speaks directly to you - the Holy Spirit.

complete said:

'I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee (Moses),
and will put My words in His mouth;
and He shall speak unto them all that I shall command Him.
And it shall come to pass,
that whosoever will not hearken unto My words
which He shall speak in My name, I will require it of Him.
(Deu 18:18-19)

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I most certainly do not think that the author was speaking about Paul. Do you? There were certain prophecies that Paul attributed to himself, (might you know of these?) but I don't find that this was one of them.

Blessings,
Rhema

Rxlx said:

You called Jesus a liar every time you said Satan isn't ruling Earth right now.

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And you call Jesus a liar every time you say that Satan IS ruling the Earth right now.

Why do you have such a problem understanding the timeline of events in the New Testament?

The declaration by Jesus of his rule was written AFTER the Resurrection:

- Matthew 28:18 KJV

It doesn't say "Will be given..." does it? Why can't you read what is actually written? And if you can, why do you reject Christ before men, elevating Satan to where he does not belong?

Rhema