Do not marry not equal do not reproduce.

But even so.. lets go with the two translations you picked, the ESV and the NASB.

NASB
Jude 1:6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Jude 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

ESV
Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—
Jude 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

gross immorality, strange flesh (not their own kind). indulged in sexual immorality.
According to these two translations (and others) these angels committed immoral sexual acts.

AMP
Jude 1:6 And angels who did not keep (care for, guard, and hold to) their own first place of power but abandoned their proper dwelling place--these He has reserved in custody in eternal chains (bonds) under the thick gloom of utter darkness until the judgment and doom of the great day.
Jude 1:7 [The wicked are sentenced to suffer] just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the adjacent towns--which likewise gave themselves over to impurity and indulged in unnatural vice and sensual perversity--are laid out [in plain sight] as an exhibit of perpetual punishment [to warn] of everlasting fire. [Genesis 19]

NKJV
Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
Jude 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

unnatural vice, sensual perversity, sexual immorality.
It seems angels are capable of committing sex of some kind.

But even today believers and unbeliers havse sex (sons of God? with daughters of men?) .. and they don't produce Nephilim.
So why would that happen then, but not now?

H5303
נְפִל נְפִיל
nephı̂yl nephil
nef-eel', nef-eel'
From H5307; properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant: - giant.
Total KJV occurrences: 3

Chapter [X]
Heaven or Hell Forever?

Ask any Christian where they'll spend eternity and you'll get a simple answer: Heaven.

Ask where unbelievers go and you'll get an equally simple answer: Hell.

Heaven or Hell. Forever. Two destinations. Pick one.

It's clean. It's simple. It's taught in Sunday School with flannel graphs.

And it's wrong.

Not completely wrong - but wrong enough that we've missed most of what Scripture actually promises.

THE ASSUMPTION

When you die, you go to either Heaven or Hell, and that's where you'll be forever.

Believers: Heaven. Unbelievers: Hell. End of story.

We sing about it. "When we all get to Heaven, what a day of rejoicing that will be." We comfort grieving families: "He's in Heaven now, looking down on us." We warn the lost: "You're going to Hell if you don't get saved."

It's so embedded in Christian culture that questioning it feels almost heretical.

But here's the problem: Scripture describes something far more complex - and far more glorious - than the simple binary we've created.

THE HELL PROBLEM

Let's start with Hell, because the timeline problem is clearest there.

Revelation 20:13-14 says this: "The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

Read that again.

Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire.

If Hell (Hades) gets thrown into the Lake of Fire, then Hell isn't the final destination. It's a temporary holding place. A jail cell before sentencing.

The Lake of Fire is the final destination. The "second death." Permanent separation from God.

Hell and the Lake of Fire are not the same place.

Jesus makes this distinction too. In Matthew 25:41, He says the wicked will "depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Prepared for the devil and his angels. Not Hell - the Lake of Fire. That's where they end up. That's the eternal destination.

So no, unbelievers don't go to Hell forever. They go to Hades temporarily, then to the Lake of Fire permanently.

Semantics? Maybe. But it's what Scripture actually says.

THE HEAVEN PROBLEM

Now let's look at the believers' side. Heaven forever, right?

Not according to Scripture.

Paul tells us that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8). When believers die now, yes, we go to be with Jesus. Most people call that Heaven. Fine.

But that's not the final destination either.

Here's the timeline Scripture gives us:

First, the resurrection. "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air" (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).

We get resurrection bodies. Physical bodies. Not disembodied spirits floating on clouds - actual bodies.

Then what?

The Millennial Kingdom. Revelation 20:4-6 describes believers reigning with Christ for a thousand years. On earth. Not in Heaven - on earth.

Then comes the final rebellion, the Great White Throne Judgment, and the destruction of Death and Hades.

And then this: "Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God" (Revelation 21:1-2).

A new heaven and a new earth.

The New Jerusalem coming down.

And here's the key verse: "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God" (Revelation 21:3).

The tabernacle of God is with men.

Not men going up to Heaven to be with God. God coming down to dwell with men.

That's the eternal destination. Not Heaven up there. The New Jerusalem on the New Earth, with God present.

We don't inherit the entire planet as our dwelling place. We inherit the city - the New Jerusalem. That's where God's throne is. That's where we live. The rest of the New Earth exists around it, and presumably we can go out and explore it, but our home - our dwelling place - is the city itself.

JESUS WON'T BE IN HEAVEN EITHER

Here's something most people never consider.

If the New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven to the New Earth, and God's throne is in the New Jerusalem, and we will dwell with Him in that city... then Heaven as we think of it - that place "up there" where God is - won't be the eternal dwelling place of anyone.

Not us. Not Jesus. Not God the Father.

The throne comes down. Revelation 22:1-3 describes the river of life flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of the New Jerusalem, with the tree of life on either side.

The throne is in the city. The city is on the New Earth. We live there with God.

So when we sing "I'll Fly Away" and "I've Got a Mansion Just Over the Hilltop," we're not describing what Scripture promises.

We're not flying away to Heaven forever.

We're getting resurrected bodies to live on a renewed Earth with God physically present.

That's not less than Heaven. That's better.

NO MORE DEATH

Here's another piece most people miss.

Revelation 21:4 says, "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."

No more death.

Not "we won't die anymore." Death itself - the enemy - is destroyed.

Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 15:26, "The last enemy that will be destroyed is death."

Death gets thrown into the Lake of Fire along with Hades (Revelation 20:14). It's eliminated. Gone. The former things have passed away.

If death is destroyed, then the New Earth isn't just another chapter in salvation history where people still die and face judgment. It's the final chapter. The eternal state. No more testing. No more falling. No more death.

SO WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE US?

Let's map the actual timeline Scripture gives:

For Believers:
1. Die now → Present with the Lord (Heaven, if you want to call it that)
2. Resurrection → Receive glorified bodies
3. Millennial Kingdom → Reign with Christ on earth for 1,000 years
4. New Heaven and New Earth → The New Jerusalem descends, we dwell with God in the city forever

For Unbelievers:
1. Die now → Hades (the temporary holding place)
2. Great White Throne Judgment → Judged according to their works
3. Lake of Fire → The second death, permanent separation from God

Heaven and Hell? Yes, as intermediate states.

Forever? No.

The final destinations are the New Earth for believers and the Lake of Fire for unbelievers.

WHY DOES THIS MATTER?

You might be thinking, "Okay, but isn't this just semantics? Does it really matter?"

Yes. It matters.

First, because truth matters. We should say what Scripture says, not what we wish it said or what we've always heard.

Second, because what Scripture promises is better than what we've been taught.

We're not getting a disembodied existence on clouds playing harps. We're getting resurrection bodies - physical, glorified, imperishable - to live on a physical earth that's been renewed and perfected, with God physically present among us.

We're getting Eden back. The way it was supposed to be. Humanity and God dwelling together. The curse removed. Creation restored.

That's the promise. Not escape from creation - redemption of creation.

Third, because misunderstanding the destination affects how we live now.

If we think we're just passing through this physical world on our way to a spiritual Heaven, then the physical world doesn't matter much. Trash it. Use it up. We're leaving anyway.

But if God is redeeming and renewing creation, if the earth itself has a future, if our resurrection bodies are designed for a physical existence on a physical New Earth, then how we steward creation now matters.

And fourth, because getting Hell wrong undermines the seriousness of judgment.

If people think "Hell" is the final destination and they read verses about people being in "Hell" now (like the rich man in Luke 16), they might think the final judgment has already happened. It hasn't. Hades is the jail cell. The Lake of Fire is the sentence. And nobody's in the Lake of Fire yet.

The judgment is still coming.

THE FLANNEL GRAPH VERSION VS. SCRIPTURE

Here's what we've been taught:
- You die
- You go to Heaven or Hell
- You stay there forever
- The end

Here's what Scripture actually says:
- You die
- Believers go to be with Jesus; unbelievers go to Hades
- Jesus returns; believers are resurrected
- Believers reign with Christ for 1,000 years on earth
- Satan's final rebellion is crushed
- Great White Throne Judgment
- Death and Hades are thrown into the Lake of Fire
- New Heaven and New Earth appear
- New Jerusalem descends from Heaven to the New Earth
- God dwells with humanity on the New Earth forever

That's a lot more complicated than the flannel graph version.

But it's also a lot more glorious.

THE BEREAN TEST

So here's the challenge: Don't take my word for it. Check it yourself.

Read Revelation 20-22. All the way through. Pay attention to the sequence of events.

When does the New Heaven and New Earth appear? (After the Great White Throne Judgment)

Where does the New Jerusalem come from? (Down out of Heaven)

Where does it go? (To the New Earth)

Where is God's throne? (In the New Jerusalem, on the New Earth)

What happens to Death and Hades? (Thrown into the Lake of Fire)

Then ask yourself: Does that match "I'll fly away to Heaven forever"?

Or does it match something different - something better?

God dwelling with humanity on a renewed earth. Physical resurrection bodies. No more death. No more curse. Creation restored. Eden redeemed.

That's what Scripture promises.

Not Heaven up there. The New Jerusalem - our eternal city - on the New Earth. With God.

The city is our home. The New Earth surrounds it. And we get to live in both - citizens of the city with access to the renewed creation.

Forever.

CONCLUSION

So can we still say "Heaven" as shorthand for "where believers go when they die"? Sure. Language is flexible.

But let's not confuse the intermediate state with the final destination.

And let's not rob ourselves of the full glory of what God has promised by reducing it to clouds and harps and floating around forever.

We're getting something better.

We're getting resurrection.

We're getting a home in the New Jerusalem.

We're getting God Himself dwelling with us in the city.

That's worth getting right.

Sorry posted in wrong thread.

th1bill said:

Gen, 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
This is one great example of misusing Scripture. Search the Bible until your fingers fall off, and you will not find Yehovah God committing sin. Why in the world do I throw that in here?
God created Angels to be His servants, and Angles do not reproduce.
Matthew 22:30 ESV
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
In Heaven, we will no longer reproduce, but will be like the Angels who do not reproduce. Let's look for a moment at possibilities.
Sons of God (Biblical Hebrew: בְנֵי־הָאֱלֹהִים, romanized: Bənē hāʾĔlōhīm, [1] literally: "the sons of Elohim " [2]) is a phrase used in the Tanakh or Old Testament and in Christian Apocrypha. The phrase is also used in Kabbalah where bene elohim are part of different Jewish angelic hierarchies.
Men are great at using themselves to relate to anything else, but Yehovah God had the Holy Scriptures recorded and they interpret themselves and that must be accomplished with the aid of Ruah ha'Mashiach, a.k.a. The Holy Spirit.
Mark 4:11
English Standard Version
11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables,
It is not meant for the Lost Man to understand the parables of God, and they are revealed to the person who submits to the leadership of Yahweh, because those people are indwelt with the Ruah ha’Machiah and He interprets for them.
Colossians 1:26-29
New American Standard Bible 1995
26 that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His [a]saints, 27 to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, so that we may present every man [c]complete in Christ. 29 For this purpose also I labor, striving according to His [d]power, which [e]mightily works within me.
The simple truth is revealed to those who are the Children of God because they are filled with the Spirit of His Presence. To this end, the Sons of God, spoken of in this passage are the God Fearing, God Worshipping Jews who married the daughters of the unchosen.

Click to expand...

Men were given the seed of life and if given to the woman who is built to nurture that seed, another human being is born. People dont really like to talk or even consider it, but in the past, it was said that there were succubus (the female version) who literally took the seed of man. While in the hands of evil beings, the stolen seed was manipulated making it more so their own sub creation or modification (our scientists can do this now). Then inplanted into a female who had the ability to nuture that seed and make it grow. And the resulting mutation was carefully raised as the children of the fallen angels, with their hearts and their heads filled with the evil of those teaching them. So although they couldnt bare children themselves, they could create a mutated human using male seeds and female nuturing.

Brad Huber said:

Men were given the seed of life and if given to the woman who is built to nurture that seed, another human being is born. People dont really like to talk or even consider it, but in the past, it was said that there were succubus (the female version) who literally took the seed of man. While in the hands of evil beings, the stolen seed was manipulated making it more so their own sub creation or modification (our scientists can do this now). Then inplanted into a female who had the ability to nuture that seed and make it grow. And the resulting mutation was carefully raised as the children of the fallen angels, with their hearts and their heads filled with the evil of those teaching them. So although they couldnt bare children themselves, they could create a mutated human using male seeds and female nuturing.

Click to expand...

I presented my position on scripture, the Word of Yeshuah, and as nearly as I can see, you give me a fable?

th1bill said:

I presented my position on scripture, the Word of Yeshuah, and as nearly as I can see, you give me a fable?

Click to expand...

The religious jews during the time of Christ presented their position on scripture. Were they right? And its only a fable that you have "chosen" to not believe. Many believe Christianity to be based on a fable. Do you believe that fable? Why not just research it, like you once did with scripture and christianity.... or have you forgotten that it lead you to the truth?

Jud 1:6-7
(6) And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
(7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Mat 22:30
(30) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Of course angels are not given in marriage and do not reproduce.

Now concerning the Nephilim or giants, it was angels that left their first estate that slept with women, not angels that remained in perfect condition with God.

Those fallen angels, became demons and evil spirits, they were no longer as they were formally.

So in regards to demons and evil spirits or at least some of them, they have some way to have sexual relations with women, but are no longer in their former angel, condition.