“Keeping the Law”

[NetChaplain]

God never intended for man to keep the Law, it was His way of revealing to man, not only His requirement for fellowship, but also the inability (even if desiring to) of the creature to do so. Perfect obedience to His will cannot be accomplished in the creature (man), in who dwells the sin nature (old man), even in regeneration.

Perfect obedience to God will be the walk of the Christian in eternity because of the absence of the sin nature, which will involve the absence of all hindrances to man’s ability to obey Him perfectly—in the Spirit. Jesus was the only human who could keep the law perfectly because it required, not only an uninterruptence (even in thought) of outward compliance of actions (impossibility with a sin nature—Jam 2:10), but an inward holiness of intentions in all things (performed only out of divinity—Jesus). The outward keeping of the law could be keep by any human—but not perfectly—and that was the point.

Jesus’ Law keeping was not so that His obedience would be accredited to the believer, but for Himself—for the qualifying of a perfect sacrifice, and it is the result of this atonement which is accredited (imputed) to the believer. Now, the believer’s obedience is in the life of Christ (Col 3:4) by the Spirit, and this is why godliness is imputed (not imparted due to the sin nature).

-NC

 

[DHC]

God never intended for man to keep the Law, it was His way of revealing to man, not only His requirement for fellowship, but also the inability (even if desiring to) of the creature to do so. Perfect obedience to His will cannot be accomplished in the creature (man), in who dwells the sin nature (old man), even in regeneration.

Perfect obedience to God will be the walk of the Christian in eternity because of the absence of the sin nature, which will involve the absence of all hindrances to man’s ability to obey Him perfectly—in the Spirit. Jesus was the only human who could keep the law perfectly because it required, not only an uninterruptence (even in thought) of outward compliance of actions (impossibility with a sin nature—Jam 2:10), but an inward holiness of intentions in all things (performed only out of divinity—Jesus). The outward keeping of the law could be keep by any human—but not perfectly—and that was the point.

Jesus’ Law keeping was not so that His obedience would be accredited to the believer, but for Himself—for the qualifying of a perfect sacrifice, and it is the result of this atonement which is accredited (imputed) to the believer. Now, the believer’s obedience is in the life of Christ (Col 3:4) by the Spirit, and this is why godliness is imputed (not imparted due to the sin nature).

-NC

Hello NetChaplain.

You are correct in your evaluation of the purpose of the law.

We are so deeply flawed that even the attempt at obedience to even one of
the laws of the old covenant will fail. The apostle Paul made this point very
clear in Romans chapter seven.

Paul was a fanatical legalist and yet Paul was undone by the law of coveting.
There should be no debate regarding the role of the law in the Christian life but
yet there is and always will be. We Gentiles were never included in the old covenant
and God never intended that we would be. God chose the Israelites to demonstrate
to the rest of us the absolute futility of fleshly obedience to the external legal system.

So why NetChaplain does legalism exist within Christianity and why is legalism
so prevalent? Even the cults have the same legalistic attitude to the law. Without
any reservation the proportion of legalistic Christians vastly outnumber those
who are not.

So why NetChaplain is this the case?

 

[RJ]

Bravo, NetChaplain!

We are no longer under the law, we are under grace. Christ didn't come to do away with the law, he came to fulfill the law and therefore ushering in salvation through grace which abolished he old law requirements for atonement.

Legalism doe exist and it can be found here. Many professing Christians are living under the bondage of works, people just refuse to understand that God has furnished everything for us, even our faith! When you think about it, to be a perfect salvation, it can be no other way!

 

[NetChaplain]

So why NetChaplain does legalism exist within Christianity and why is legalism
so prevalent?

So why NetChaplain is this the case?

The Reformation did not go far enough into spiritual doctrine concerning numerous insights which God is now revealing (not new material but deeper growth-related insights), so the teaching of many are stunted from the outset of their early walk, and have not grown much since then--but can now if they want it to.

 

[brakelite]

What a sad defeatist attitude there is in today's professed Christians, that they would gaze into the mirror and proclaim 'you are too far gone...too evil...too weak...too sin bound...to ever think or believe that you could obey God's commandments. God does not have the power to change your life. His Holy Spirit, even though He promises He would abide and live within you, is not powerful enough to overcome your wicked sinful passions and lusts. He is not powerful enough to change your lifestyle, your habits, your evil tendencies...so don't bother to surrender your life to Him...what can He do? Just believe His promise of the good life after you die and in the meantime try not to get into too much trouble".

And the face that steers back at you from the mirror cowers in defeat and succumbs once again to Satan's lies...

However, there is another way. Paul didn't stop writing at Romans 7. In Romans 8 he daclared that:

1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(now see why Christ condemned sin in the flesh....)
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death (why is it that to be carnally minded leads to death? Because the wages of sin is death); but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
(Note that the carnal mind is not subject to God's laws...the carnal mind cannot obey God...it is in fact at war with God)
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
(But note the very next word).....
9 But ....BUT....ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. (Note this carefully.The born again Spirit filled believer in Christ is set in direct contradistinction to the carnal flesh minded unsaved unregenerated non-believer. The latter cannot obey God...but the former..what can He do???)

By the creative power of God, the same power that created the universe and everything in it, and the same power that raised Jesus from the dead, you claim is not powerful enough to make such a change in your life that you cannot overcome sin???

Jesus was fully man, yet fully God. We cannot understand this, but this divine/human union we accept as Biblical fact do we not? Are we also , if truly born again, and filled with the Holy Spirit, a union of the divine and human? If Jesus can overcome temptation, then by the grace and power of a living loving Savior who intercedes on our behalf in heaven so can we...if we believe. Stop looking at yourselves in the mirror and getting depressed because of what you see there...Satan is lying to you when you draw the conclusion that he who stares back at you is a sinful hopeless habit bound person. That person is dead in Christ!!! Look to Christ. Look away from yourselves and look to your example, and to the source of your power. For Him who created galaxies, it is not difficult for Him to recreate you in His image. To invest in you His character. The difficulty my friends lies not in His ability to do what He has promised, but the difficulty lies in your unbelief.
If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

 

[NetChaplain]

By the creative power of God, the same power that created the universe and everything in it, and the same power that raised Jesus from the dead, you claim is not powerful enough to make such a change in your life that you cannot overcome sin???

Hi BL - I always like your replies because they are informative!

The article is easily misunderstood because most think the believer does the overcoming of sin. The instruction is in understanding that Christ overcame sin, not the believer. The believer continually overcomes the oppression from sin. We--through the Spirit--walk against sin's temptation of dominion, we need not struggle against sin's guilt; this the Law could not do, but only Christ.

The Law taught the Jew by types and shadows (Col 2:17; Heb 8:5, 10:1) to depend on Christ, not self (Gal 3:24, 25). If it were not for the Law, there could be no Christian doctrine, which is an advancement in fellowship with God, which is also why is had to be "removed" (now ineffective even to the Jew, being removed)--to establish the new dispensation of grace in the Spirit (Gal 3:24, 25).

 

[james1523]

God never intended for man to keep the Law,

Those that keep the law are those that "meditate upon it day and night", love it, retain it in their heart, and try to obey it. I think God fully intended man to keep it, and He knew that they could, and some did keep it faithfully. Keeping the law does not mean being perfect - the law itself included provision for sins and mistakes. God knew mankind was not perfect, but He knew that mankind could keep the law if they exercised their will and their conscience.

 

[RJ]

I think that this is pretty much a straight forward translation:
"For whoever keeps the law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." James 2:10.
God did not intend for man to keep the law perfectly, for it was impossible for man until grace came. The only person to ever uphold the law perfectly was Jesus. That was the purpose of the annual "Day of Atonement", where man ritually had their sins covered by the blood of animals. This was done because no man could ever keep the law perfectly.

I believe that that the purpose the law was to reveal sin to man and protect him: Before the coming of this faith,we were held in custody under the law,locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. So the law was our gaurdian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a gaurdian.Galatians 3:23-25
Jesus blood and death was the last sacrifce, he did not cover our sins like the "Day of Atonement", he was the final atonement. He took away our sins forever. He said it was finished and he sat down at the right hand of God, which no priest before him could ever do!

 

[DHC]

Those that keep the law are those that "meditate upon it day and night", love it, retain it in their heart, and try to obey it. I think God fully intended man to keep it, and He knew that they could, and some did keep it faithfully. Keeping the law does not mean being perfect - the law itself included provision for sins and mistakes. God knew mankind was not perfect, but He knew that mankind could keep the law if they exercised their will and their conscience.

Hello James.

The law brings the knowledge of sin, meditate on the law and you will like Paul become very aware of your
inability to obey the law. Scripture never states that Christians are to be under the law James,
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace (Romans 6:14).

Please explain how you read the line above?

 

[james1523]

Hello James.

The law brings the knowledge of sin, meditate on the law and you will like Paul become very aware of your
inability to obey the law. Scripture never states that Christians are to be under the law James,
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace (Romans 6:14).

Please explain how you read the line above?

My comment was in reference to the old testament way of life, not the new testament. I believe Old Testament saints did keep the Law, and were fully able to do so. God's dialogue with Cain makes it clear that man has the inherent ability to rule over sin: Genesis 4:7 "If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.""

God said to Cain "you must rule over it". God wasn't going to do it for him. And God knew Cain had such an ability, because Cain was made in the image of God and Cain, was "like God", knowing good and evil, and had a conscience.

 

[RJ]

My comment was in reference to the old testament way of life, not the new testament. I believe Old Testament saints did keep the Law, and were fully able to do so. God's dialogue with Cain makes it clear that man has the inherent ability to rule over sin: Genesis 4:7 "If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.""

God said to Cain "you must rule over it". God wasn't going to do it for him. And God knew Cain had such an ability, because Cain was made in the image of God and Cain, was "like God", knowing good and evil, and had a conscience.

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

• Man was never meant to fulfill the law perfectly, in fact because he was imperfect. That was the reason for ancients "Day of Atonement" , to cover over man's sin.
• Only Jesus could fulfill the law perfectly. Jesus was the final atonement, he did not cover over sins, he took them away for ever.

Roman 7:7 Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.”

Romans 7: 18-20 And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can’t. I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.

Romans 7 : 24-25 Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death? Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.

Salvation by grace not works:
Romans 8:1-2 So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

 

[Lamar]

What a sad defeatist attitude there is in today's professed Christians, that they would gaze into the mirror and proclaim 'you are too far gone...too evil...too weak...too sin bound...to ever think or believe that you could obey God's commandments. God does not have the power to change your life. His Holy Spirit, even though He promises He would abide and live within you, is not powerful enough to overcome your wicked sinful passions and lusts. He is not powerful enough to change your lifestyle, your habits, your evil tendencies...so don't bother to surrender your life to Him...what can He do? Just believe His promise of the good life after you die and in the meantime try not to get into too much trouble".

And the face that steers back at you from the mirror cowers in defeat and succumbs once again to Satan's lies...

However, there is another way. Paul didn't stop writing at Romans 7. In Romans 8 he daclared that:

1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(now see why Christ condemned sin in the flesh....)
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death (why is it that to be carnally minded leads to death? Because the wages of sin is death); but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
(Note that the carnal mind is not subject to God's laws...the carnal mind cannot obey God...it is in fact at war with God)
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
(But note the very next word).....
9 But ....BUT....ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. (Note this carefully.The born again Spirit filled believer in Christ is set in direct contradistinction to the carnal flesh minded unsaved unregenerated non-believer. The latter cannot obey God...but the former..what can He do???)

By the creative power of God, the same power that created the universe and everything in it, and the same power that raised Jesus from the dead, you claim is not powerful enough to make such a change in your life that you cannot overcome sin???

Jesus was fully man, yet fully God. We cannot understand this, but this divine/human union we accept as Biblical fact do we not? Are we also , if truly born again, and filled with the Holy Spirit, a union of the divine and human? If Jesus can overcome temptation, then by the grace and power of a living loving Savior who intercedes on our behalf in heaven so can we...if we believe. Stop looking at yourselves in the mirror and getting depressed because of what you see there...Satan is lying to you when you draw the conclusion that he who stares back at you is a sinful hopeless habit bound person. That person is dead in Christ!!! Look to Christ. Look away from yourselves and look to your example, and to the source of your power. For Him who created galaxies, it is not difficult for Him to recreate you in His image. To invest in you His character. The difficulty my friends lies not in His ability to do what He has promised, but the difficulty lies in your unbelief.
If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

Brakelite, you simply nailed it my friend... if we turn to our Example and follow the Holy Spirit that the Most High sealed us with then we are capable of anything fruitful. Philippians 4:13

 

[RJ]

What a sad defeatist attitude there is in today's professed Christians, that they would gaze into the mirror and proclaim 'you are too far gone...too evil...too weak...too sin bound...to ever think or believe that you could obey God's commandments. God does not have the power to change your life. His Holy Spirit, even though He promises He would abide and live within you, is not powerful enough to overcome your wicked sinful passions and lusts. He is not powerful enough to change your lifestyle, your habits, your evil tendencies...so don't bother to surrender your life to Him...what can He do? Just believe His promise of the good life after you die and in the meantime try not to get into too much trouble".

And the face that steers back at you from the mirror cowers in defeat and succumbs once again to Satan's lies...

However, there is another way. Paul didn't stop writing at Romans 7. In Romans 8 he daclared that:

1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(now see why Christ condemned sin in the flesh....)
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death (why is it that to be carnally minded leads to death? Because the wages of sin is death); but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
(Note that the carnal mind is not subject to God's laws...the carnal mind cannot obey God...it is in fact at war with God)
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
(But note the very next word).....
9 But ....BUT....ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. (Note this carefully.The born again Spirit filled believer in Christ is set in direct contradistinction to the carnal flesh minded unsaved unregenerated non-believer. The latter cannot obey God...but the former..what can He do???)

By the creative power of God, the same power that created the universe and everything in it, and the same power that raised Jesus from the dead, you claim is not powerful enough to make such a change in your life that you cannot overcome sin???

Jesus was fully man, yet fully God. We cannot understand this, but this divine/human union we accept as Biblical fact do we not? Are we also , if truly born again, and filled with the Holy Spirit, a union of the divine and human? If Jesus can overcome temptation, then by the grace and power of a living loving Savior who intercedes on our behalf in heaven so can we...if we believe. Stop looking at yourselves in the mirror and getting depressed because of what you see there...Satan is lying to you when you draw the conclusion that he who stares back at you is a sinful hopeless habit bound person. That person is dead in Christ!!! Look to Christ. Look away from yourselves and look to your example, and to the source of your power. For Him who created galaxies, it is not difficult for Him to recreate you in His image. To invest in you His character. The difficulty my friends lies not in His ability to do what He has promised, but the difficulty lies in your unbelief.
If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

Very good discussion! I highlighted in red a couple of your comments that I wholeheartedly agree with. Now, some will disagree but, your comments are exactly why I believe that a true believer can not "fall away" back to unbelief and my pro stand for OSAS!

 

[B-A-C]

The law and the commandments are often confused. Nomos (the law) is not the same as Entole (the commandments). It's true we aren't saved by works. It's also true we are no longer under the law (IF) we are under grace and led by the Spirit. We no longer have to get circumcised, confess to priests, sacrifice animals, do penance or stone people. Over a dozen times in the NT we are told we aren't under the law. Yet adultery, murder, stealing and lying are all still sins. We are told over 15 times in the NT to keep the commandments. What are Jesus' commandments? Simply to love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself.

In the OT keeping the law was the only way for eternal life. Keep in mind everyone mentioned in Hebrews 11 was from the OT. (Moses, Rahab, Abraham, etc..)
But no one could keep it 100%, that's why they had priests and sacrifices. To make up for mens weaknesses and failings.
In the NT, we still can't keep it 100%, that's why we have Jesus. To make up for mens weaknesses and failings. He didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it.

 

[DHC]

The law and the commandments are often confused. Nomos (the law) is not the same as Entole (the commandments).

Are you sure that there is a difference between the nomos and the entole?

 

[whearn1]

My comment was in reference to the old testament way of life, not the new testament. I believe Old Testament saints did keep the Law, and were fully able to do so. God's dialogue with Cain makes it clear that man has the inherent ability to rule over sin: Genesis 4:7 "If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.""

God said to Cain "you must rule over it". God wasn't going to do it for him. And God knew Cain had such an ability, because Cain was made in the image of God and Cain, was "like God", knowing good and evil, and had a conscience.

Hello Fellow Believers,
the conversation has been interesting thus far, I hope I can come along beside you is this discussion. I'd like to start by addressing this last point about the old testament saints keeping the law. Romans 3:23 " For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" There is a very distinct difference between knowing the difference between good and evil or right and wrong, and keeping all of the law. While many of the Old Testament saints and prophets aspired to righteousness, each one fell short in keeping the whole law. For this reason when we read Hebrews chapter eleven, we are not told about how perfectly any of the biblical heroes kept the law, but rather how having faith made up for their shortcomings. Men of the Old and New Testaments have the same sin nature since the fall of Adam, they were on different than we are, having the same weak flesh and deceitful heart. If anyone other than Christ was able to keep the law then the bible would not say ' all have sinned ", for what is sin but transgressing the law ? 1 John 3:4 " Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is thetransgression of the law" You see we all rule over the evil in us sometimes, but the law demands perfection, so sometimes is not enough.

Brakelite: " What a sad defeatist attitude there is in today's professed Christians, that they would gaze into the mirror and proclaim 'you are too far gone...too evil...too weak...too sin bound...to ever think or believe that you could obey God's commandments. God does not have the power to change your life. His Holy Spirit, even though He promises He would abide and live within you, is not powerful enough to overcome your wicked sinful passions and lusts. He is not powerful enough to change your lifestyle, your habits, your evil tendencies...so don't bother to surrender your life to Him...what can He do? Just believe His promise of the good life after you die and in the meantime try not to get into too much trouble".

I am sure that your statements are meant to encourage and exhort Christians to not underestimate what God can do in us, but God never intended for us to keep the law. I say us ( as though I were a Jew ), but i mean us as mankind. God gave us the law to show us how far away from Him we were, and the impossibility of us reaching Him by our own works or righteousness. Isa 64:6 "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Jesus gave us the two commandments that all the law hinges on Mark 12:30-31 "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. We as Christians dont even come close to keeping just two of the commandments. Thank God for grace.

Moreover; even if we could have kept the law, there was no law given that could have brought us back to life, we were dead in trespasses and sin, Romans 7:9-10 "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

This is why " you must be born again" , because until you are, you are dead to God. The law could not give you life. Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. We needed life, Jesus is that life, 1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Without Christ I can do nothing. When I surrender my life to him, it is no longer me striving to obey, but Christ in me, doing what I could never do. I pray every day for power of focus, to access the spirit of Christ in me more than my flesh, so if somehow I could keep just the two. Help me Lord to focus on the two, help me to press in to the two, loving you and my neighbor with all I am. Amen

 

[brakelite]

Hello Fellow Believers,
the conversation has been interesting thus far, I hope I can come along beside you is this discussion. I'd like to start by addressing this last point about the old testament saints keeping the law. Romans 3:23 " For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" There is a very distinct difference between knowing the difference between good and evil or right and wrong, and keeping all of the law. While many of the Old Testament saints and prophets aspired to righteousness, each one fell short in keeping the whole law. For this reason when we read Hebrews chapter eleven, we are not told about how perfectly any of the biblical heroes kept the law, but rather how having faith made up for their shortcomings. Men of the Old and New Testaments have the same sin nature since the fall of Adam, they were on different than we are, having the same weak flesh and deceitful heart. If anyone other than Christ was able to keep the law then the bible would not say ' all have sinned ", for what is sin but transgressing the law ? 1 John 3:4 " Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is thetransgression of the law" You see we all rule over the evil in us sometimes, but the law demands perfection, so sometimes is not enough.

Brakelite: " What a sad defeatist attitude there is in today's professed Christians, that they would gaze into the mirror and proclaim 'you are too far gone...too evil...too weak...too sin bound...to ever think or believe that you could obey God's commandments. God does not have the power to change your life. His Holy Spirit, even though He promises He would abide and live within you, is not powerful enough to overcome your wicked sinful passions and lusts. He is not powerful enough to change your lifestyle, your habits, your evil tendencies...so don't bother to surrender your life to Him...what can He do? Just believe His promise of the good life after you die and in the meantime try not to get into too much trouble".

I am sure that your statements are meant to encourage and exhort Christians to not underestimate what God can do in us, but God never intended for us to keep the law. I say us ( as though I were a Jew ), but i mean us as mankind. God gave us the law to show us how far away from Him we were, and the impossibility of us reaching Him by our own works or righteousness. Isa 64:6 "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Jesus gave us the two commandments that all the law hinges on Mark 12:30-31 "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. We as Christians dont even come close to keeping just two of the commandments. Thank God for grace.

Moreover; even if we could have kept the law, there was no law given that could have brought us back to life, we were dead in trespasses and sin, Romans 7:9-10 "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

This is why " you must be born again" , because until you are, you are dead to God. The law could not give you life. Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. We needed life, Jesus is that life, 1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Without Christ I can do nothing. When I surrender my life to him, it is no longer me striving to obey, but Christ in me, doing what I could never do. I pray every day for power of focus, to access the spirit of Christ in me more than my flesh, so if somehow I could keep just the two. Help me Lord to focus on the two, help me to press in to the two, loving you and my neighbor with all I am. Amen

If God never intended us to keep the law, then I have two questions.

1. Why are we condemned for our disobedience to the law?
2. What was Paul meaning then when he said that Jesus died "that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us". (Romans 8:1-5)

I regret to admit but I get the impression that you are using a false theological argument (God never intended us to keep the law) in order to support your reluctance to obey it; or as an excuse for not obeying it. Sorry, but there are no excuses for our disobedience to the law when we have the Holy Spirit abiding within.
Like you said, we can do nothing without Christ, but we can do all things with Christ.

 

[NetChaplain]

1. Why are we condemned for our disobedience to the law?

Hi BL - I like the fact that you always present significant and to the point inquiries. If you're referring to the law of the Jews, we were never responsible for following it. They couldn't obey it because of the "old man" (Rom 8:3 --old man = flesh). We need not to obey it because the "new man" doesn't need it (Gal 5:23), and I do not say this to spite your questions, but to provide honest answers.

What was Paul meaning then when he said that Jesus died "that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us". (Romans 8:1-5)

The believer cannot stand in his own righteousness for acceptance; "this is said to be "fulfilled in us"; this is not fulfilled by us in our own persons, nor can it be; could it, where would be the weakness of the law (Rom 8:3)? man might then be justified by it, and so the grace of God, and the righteousness of Christ, must be set aside: there never was any mere man that could fulfil it; for obedience to it must not only be performed perfectly, but with intenseness of mind and spirit; a man must be sinless in thought, word, and deed." J Gill (only Jesus qualifies here)

We would have to be divine to fulfill it, and it's not the fulfilling of it by Christ that makes us righteous, as if His obedience was imputed to us, which is a misunderstanding by most. It was by His sacrificial judgement of sin (sin condemned in the flesh [old man]) that the believer is made to be in His righteousness (1 Cor 1:30), and it was in His obedience that proved He was the only qualification for the atonement, which sums up the OT in its entirety.

His sacrifice and His earthly life of obedience are two separate works. His obedience gave Him the authority to be the sacrifice!

 

[B-A-C]

The believer cannot stand in his own righteousness for acceptance; "this is said to be "fulfilled in us"; this is not fulfilled by us in our own persons, nor can it be; could it, where would be the weakness of the law (Rom 8:3)? man might then be justified by it, and so the grace of God, and the righteousness of Christ, must be set aside: there never was any mere man that could fulfil it; for obedience to it must not only be performed perfectly, but with intenseness of mind and spirit; a man must be sinless in thought, word, and deed." J Gill (only Jesus qualifies here

Contrary to popular belief, we will be judged for our deeds, and our works.

Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

This isn't just the evil.
Matt 7:2; "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

Rev 11:18; "And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."

We aren't saved BY works, but we are saved to do works.

Eph 2:10; For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
1Tim 2:10; but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.
1Tim 6:18; Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,
Jas 2:20; But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
Jas 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Even the works we do after we are saved.

1 Cor 3:13; each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
1 Cor 3:14; If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
1 Cor 3:15; If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

The commandments were meant for all people.

Ecc 12:13; The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person.

It's true we aren't saved by the law, but the commandments are a moral compass, they are the plumb-line, the standard Christians should be striving for.
Anyone who says murder, adultery, fornication, lying and stealing isn't a sin is preaching a false doctrine.

 

[RJ]

Contrary to popular belief, we will be judged for our deeds, and our works.

Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

This isn't just the evil.
Matt 7:2; "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

Rev 11:18; "And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."

We aren't saved BY works, but we are saved to do works.

Eph 2:10; For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
1Tim 2:10; but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.
1Tim 6:18; Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,
Jas 2:20; But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
Jas 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Even the works we do after we are saved.

1 Cor 3:13; each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
1 Cor 3:14; If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
1 Cor 3:15; If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

The commandments were meant for all people.

Ecc 12:13; The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person.

It's true we aren't saved by the law, but the commandments are a moral compass, they are the plumb-line, the standard Christians should be striving for.
Anyone who says murder, adultery, fornication, lying and stealing isn't a sin is preaching a false doctrine.

Sin is also, doubting, negativity, being insecure or anything God is not! Anything that is not pure, holy and righteous seperates us from him!