Are Catholics Christians?

[Jonah]

Do you think that catholics are definately christians, and are just a different type of denomination, or are they a different religion and you think what they believe is wrong

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Questions like this bother me because the questioner seems to be asking me to sit in judgment of others, which is not my job. The Bible says that when Jesus returns, He will judge everyone (Mt 25:31-32) and separate the sheep from the goats. Its not a group decision; Jesus alone will choose our fates.

SLE

 

[B-A-C]

I'm not voting on this either, we are not called to judge sinners. But we ARE called to judge others in the church. 1 Cor 11:13; 1 Cor 5:12;
We are told to rebuke and correct improper teaching. Luke 17:3;1 Tim 5:20; 2 Tim 4:2;
We are told if we have a chance to turn someone from the wrong way and don't do it, their blood will be counted against us. Jas 5:19-20; Ezek 19;87

I know some Catholics who call themselves Roman Catholics (for historical reasons more than anything else) yet they are pretty protestant in their beliefs.
I know some protestants, who despite calling themselves protestants, practice much of the Roman Catholic liturgies an traditions.
The Anglican/Episcopalian/Church of England is very similar to the Roman Catholic church in may ways. Yet they consider themselves protestants.

 

[amadeus2]

No vote from me either! What is a Christian anyway according to the rules set up by someone to determine is or is not a Christian in the world of men? In the United States where supposedly a large majority are Christians, how many cities reflect a very Christ-like attitude in most respects? None of them with which I am personally familiar... which includes both those apparently with mostly Catholic and those with largely Protestant populations. Could it be that I am not seeing clearly?

 

[james1523]

Catholics are in many ways, great Christians. Catholicism is not a denomination. The Catholic Church is an organized religion.
Many protestant churches are accepting homosexual and female priests.
Catholics are still standing against abortion, homosexuality and ordination of female clergy.
They still believe what Scripture says, that the bread and wine is the body and blood of our Lord. They treat and observe the Lord's command with respect and reverence to remember Him.
Rather than a heresy which says they are only symbols. Many protestant churches ignore the observance of communion or treat it lightly, which shows they have forgotten Christ.

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

I voted don't know ! There are many Christians that are God fearing .Jews, baptists , Catholics , Presbyterians and so on ! Gods requirement of us is to believe in Christ Gods only son and the cross for salvation .then seek Gods will for our lives and turn from Evil in thought and deed . Or repent as we call it ! Every thing else is spiritual flies that separate and cause division among the believers . The bible clearly Stares we should let nothing divide us .that means NOTHING , not denomination , age. Gender or any other thing man can think of to make himself seem more righteous than the guy next to him ! One people worshiping one God ! In unity . What a concept ! last summer i was part of a block party ,7 differant churches pulling to gather to promote Christ and not themselves . People were saved , lives were changed and God was glorified . The power of God revealed before men !!! ....Rev

 

[Christ4Ever]

Do you think that catholics are definately christians, and are just a different type of denomination, or are they a different religion and you think what they believe is wrong

Talk about opening a can of worms!!!! However, I do enjoy fishing now and again.

If you're talking about the denomination as a whole and their stance when it comes to salvation, and adherence to scripture? Probably not. Now a days the same could be said of some Protestant denominations as well!

Thank God that Salvation is not dictated by the Church we attend! I do believe we would all be toast and burnt toast at that if that were the case!

However, I do believe that Catholicism depending on the individual has been a vehicle by which people have come to Salvation. The sad part of that is, that those who have, don't always have the opportunity to grow in Christ Jesus all that much if they stay there. They believe in Him, but don't know much about His ministry, nor those of the other apostles, at least outside of the need for works, tithing, and the Pope is Christ on earth, so you better listen to him.

Knowledge of Scripture to show oneself approved, is usually sorely lacking. (2 Timothy 2:15) I found that out in person, and over the years have had this confirmed (no pun intended) through talking with many of the lay Catholics who I've worked with or have gotten to know.

So your question really doesn't provide sufficient options, to allow that yes there are as Rev stated Jews, baptists , Catholics , Presbyterians and so on, who are what one would readily define as Christians. Meaning they believe that they are sinners, that Christ Jesus died for the wiping away of those sins, and rose again on the third day! It's what happens afterwards that separates the denominations and Catholicism.

Is there a perfect church on earth? Not as most would define it. Unless you consider the Body of Christ as that Church, which I do. Meaning every believer who has been called, regardless of where they might find themselves. You, Rev, SpiritLedEd, B-A-C, amadeus2, Dreamer, James1523, the thousands of others here on TJ, millions worldwide, are all part of this Church which is the Body of Christ.

That is why a lot of times when asked if I'm a Christian, I like to respond that "If you mean do I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. Then my answer is yes." Some times I add at the end of ".....Savior, that He died and rose again on the third day......." I answer this way, so if they have any per-conceived notions of what a Christian is, either it is dispelled, or allows for further communication between us.

So to answer your question..........ALL THE ABOVE!

YBIC
C4E

 

[Last Things]

Catholics are in many ways, great Christians. Catholicism is not a denomination. The Catholic Church is an organized religion.
Many protestant churches are accepting homosexual and female priests.
Catholics are still standing against abortion, homosexuality and ordination of female clergy.
They still believe what Scripture says, that the bread and wine is the body and blood of our Lord. They treat and observe the Lord's command with respect and reverence to remember Him.
Rather than a heresy which says they are only symbols. Many protestant churches ignore the observance of communion or treat it lightly, which shows they have forgotten Christ.

Yup - symbolism was a hallmark of Gnosticism. Gnostics believed everything in the world was evil. Therefore, nothing pertaining to anything divine could be done on Earth. They all had to 'symbolize' spiritual realities.

 

[Last Things]

I am Catholic, so of course I believe I am Christian. I think there are huge misunderstandings of what Catholics believe.

 

[Jonah]

In what ways do you believe catholics are wrongly critisized? To be honest, I don't know much about Catholicism but I would be intrested to find out more to consolidate or change my opinions.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

The Lord judges the heart and only He knows if an individual is truly saved

Therefore it is impossible to generalize and answer the question Are Catholics Christians if referring to individuals

However, let us not be in anyway deceived......Catholicism is a false religion that diverges from the Bible in many areas with its unbiblical beliefs and practices

This link is very informative

http://www.talkjesus.com/scriptural-answers/11205-catholicism.html#.Uy4R4aiSyEc

I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by Me
John 14:6

 

[Last Things]

In what ways do you believe catholics are wrongly critisized? To be honest, I don't know much about Catholicism but I would be intrested to find out more to consolidate or change my opinions.

I do not think Catholics are simply wrongly criticized, but in my experience almost any criticism of Catholicism is based on false premises or wrong information.
For example, there is a topic in the Evidence and Bible Prophesy and much of what is being about Catholicism is not what Catholics believe. If people want to criticize Catholic theology, that is fine - I just get irked because much of it has nothing to do with what Catholics actually believe.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

I do not think Catholics are simply wrongly criticized, but in my experience almost any criticism of Catholicism is based on false premises or wrong information.
For example, there is a topic in the Evidence and Bible Prophesy and much of what is being about Catholicism is not what Catholics believe. If people want to criticize Catholic theology, that is fine - I just get irked because much of it has nothing to do with what Catholics actually believe.

@Last Things

I think the information in Chad's thread http://www.talkjesus.com/scriptural-answers/11205-catholicism.html#.Uy4R4aiSyEc is very accurate regarding the catholic religion and it's beliefs and practices which are clearly not biblical.

That is not to say that a person who is catholic cannot be or isn't genuinely saved....Praise the Lord.

However, a person who is saved and remains in the catholic religion is very misled and not enjoying the beauty of true Christian life
When we are saved we become Christians (not catholics, not adventists, not christadelphian ....nor any other cult)

Just a few words from the Catholic Church prayers to Mary to indicate how the religion dangerously misleads people:

O Virgin of virgins, my Mother;
to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful;
O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions,
but in thy mercy hear and answer me.

"Never hesitate to look to Mary, the Mother of the Holy Family."
Pope John Paul II,

This is clearly against the Bibles teaching......

I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by Me
John 14:6

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Acts 4:12

 

[Last Things]

@Last Things

I think the information in Chad's thread http://www.talkjesus.com/scriptural-answers/11205-catholicism.html#.Uy4R4aiSyEc is very accurate regarding the catholic religion and it's beliefs and practices which are clearly not biblical.

That is not to say that a person who is catholic cannot be or isn't genuinely saved....Praise the Lord.

However, a person who is saved and remains in the catholic religion is very misled and not enjoying the beauty of true Christian life
When we are saved we become Christians (not catholics, not adventists, not christadelphian ....nor any other cult)

Generally I find most material about Catholicism to be inaccurate. I am happy to respond to what people think of Catholicism, when such things come up. If a person can convince me to leave Catholicism based on what we believe, that is one thing. Almost all the time, people tell me that Catholicism is something it is not.

For example, I am not going to go through that whole thread, but let's look at the opening line of your link:
"The Bible clearly and consistently states that receiving Jesus Christ as Savior, by grace through faith, grants salvation

The Roman Catholic Church rejects this. The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that a person must believe in Jesus Christ AND be baptized AND receive the Eucharist along with the other sacraments AND obey the decrees of the Roman Catholic Church AND perform meritorious works AND not die with any mortal sins AND etc., etc., etc."

Now perhaps I am misunderstanding him. I spent six years as a graduate student of Catholic theology. The first line, in green, is precisely what Catholics believe. We believe that from Jesus comes all graces and these bring salvation. Baptism and Eucharist as well as other sacraments are sources of grace which strengthen the faith. That is, we believe that we must persist in the faith unto the end and so we strive to do everything to maintain that faith, be it prayer, sacraments, scripture reading, etc.We believe that the Catholic faith is important, as are doing good things, but they do not merit salvation, they only streghten it. Baptism and believing the Catholic faith are not absolutely necessary to salvation, but they are, in our view, certainly helpful. I can understand then if people misunderstand that as being absolutely requirements, but they are not.

Just a few words from the Catholic Church prayers to Mary to indicate how the religion dangerously misleads people:

O Virgin of virgins, my Mother;
to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful;
O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions,
but in thy mercy hear and answer me.

"Never hesitate to look to Mary, the Mother of the Holy Family."
Pope John Paul II,

This is clearly against the Bibles teaching......

I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by Me
John 14:6

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Acts 4:12

We do not believe salvation is from Mary or from our good works for that matter. They are from Jesus. Mary is a model for mothers, I do not know of any Christians who think otherwise. As a result, some Catholics ask Mary to pray for them. Just as we ask people we relate to in our struggles to pray for us, Catholics also ask those who have passed on to pray to God.

We know that scripture tells us that the dead are not unaware, rather, as Luke 15:7 states: "I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance." Thus, we believe they know our hearts, as God reveals it to them, and so they also pray for us, and rejoice in our repentance.

I think really good people misunderstand Catholicism, for one reason or another.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Now perhaps I am misunderstanding him. I spent six years as a graduate student of Catholic theology. The first line, in green, is precisely what Catholics believe. We believe that from Jesus comes all graces and these bring salvation. Baptism and Eucharist as well as other sacraments are sources of grace which strengthen the faith. That is, we believe that we must persist in the faith unto the end and so we strive to do everything to maintain that faith, be it prayer, sacraments, scripture reading, etc.We believe that the Catholic faith is important, as are doing good things, but they do not merit salvation, they only streghten it. Baptism and believing the Catholic faith are not absolutely necessary to salvation, but they are, in our view, certainly helpful. I can understand then if people misunderstand that as being absolutely requirements, but they are not..

If your knowledge of Catholicism is great Last Things then I am sure you are aware of the below exerp from the Catechism.

Catechism
1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

The issue is not with you or individual Catholics, but the doctrines supported by the Catholic Church as seen above. There is truth and deception in this statement. One would require study as well as a bit of discernment to see it. Which remindes me of the best quote on discernment that I've come across. Charles Spurgeon: "Discernment is not a matter of simply telling the difference between right and wrong; rather it is telling the difference between right and almost right."

Never did any graduate study in Catholic theology or any formal religious studies for that manner. I guess you can say Holy Spirit taught However, the little I do know of Catholicism comes first hand as well. I myself have been Baptized 3 times! The Catholic church would not accept the Baptisim I received from the Lutheran Church as a child! I could never find out why they wouldn't. Amazing to say the least!

Only with love Last Things.
C4E

 

[Last Things]

If your knowledge of Catholicism is great Last Things then I am sure you are aware of the below exerp from the Catechism.

Catechism
1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

You left out what immediately followed that, which clarifies the point and agrees with what I said. Baptism is necessary for salvation, but that is not the same as saying one must be baptized. Saying must implies an absolute and clear that is not the case:
" 1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"64 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism. "

The issue is not with you or individual Catholics, but the doctrines supported by the Catholic Church as seen above.

As I mentioned, I am not bothered by people taking issue with Catholic teaching, but I do ask that people take issue with what is actually believed. As I mentioned, Catholics believe baptism is a necessary part of the road to salvation. However, Catholics also believe that God is not bound and that there would obviously be exceptions.

Never did any graduate study in Catholic theology or any formal religious studies for that manner. I guess you can say Holy Spirit taught However, the little I do know of Catholicism comes first hand as well.

We all learn and pick up things from other people though.

I myself have been Baptized 3 times! The Catholic church would not accept the Baptisim I received from the Lutheran Church as a child! I could never find out why they wouldn't. Amazing to say the least!

Only with love Last Things.

C4E

That does not make sense to me why that would be refused. Lutherans who baptize with water and in the names of the persons of the Trinity would be valid. Did you have a certificate of baptism? Was your baptism conditional?

 

[Fragrant Grace]

I am the LORD: that is My name: and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise to graven images.
Isaiah 42:8


Talk Jesus is not about debating 'the so called correctness' of false religions and their beliefs such as the catholic catechism, which is happening here now.
That is clearly against the aims and rules of the forum

Catholicism is a false, deceptive religion.
However, this does not mean that a person who is catholic cannot be or isn't genuinely saved.
But it must be understood that they are very misled and caught up in a very non-Christian religion
There is no compromise here.

The answers to the opening question in this thread can be found in the link that has already been provided:

http://www.talkjesus.com/scriptural-answers/11205-catholicism.html#.Uy4R4aiSyEc

Therefore I am closing this thread, to prevent further needless debate, this is subject to brother Chad agreeing with this decision ( @Chad )


For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
1 Timothy 2:5

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me
John 14:6

 

[Chad]

Generally I find most material about Catholicism to be inaccurate. I am happy to respond to what people think of Catholicism, when such things come up. If a person can convince me to leave Catholicism based on what we believe, that is one thing. Almost all the time, people tell me that Catholicism is something it is not.

For example, I am not going to go through that whole thread, but let's look at the opening line of your link:
"The Bible clearly and consistently states that receiving Jesus Christ as Savior, by grace through faith, grants salvation

The Roman Catholic Church rejects this. The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that a person must believe in Jesus Christ AND be baptized AND receive the Eucharist along with the other sacraments AND obey the decrees of the Roman Catholic Church AND perform meritorious works AND not die with any mortal sins AND etc., etc., etc."

Now perhaps I am misunderstanding him. I spent six years as a graduate student of Catholic theology. The first line, in green, is precisely what Catholics believe. We believe that from Jesus comes all graces and these bring salvation. Baptism and Eucharist as well as other sacraments are sources of grace which strengthen the faith. That is, we believe that we must persist in the faith unto the end and so we strive to do everything to maintain that faith, be it prayer, sacraments, scripture reading, etc.We believe that the Catholic faith is important, as are doing good things, but they do not merit salvation, they only streghten it. Baptism and believing the Catholic faith are not absolutely necessary to salvation, but they are, in our view, certainly helpful. I can understand then if people misunderstand that as being absolutely requirements, but they are not.

[/COLOR]

We do not believe salvation is from Mary or from our good works for that matter. They are from Jesus. Mary is a model for mothers, I do not know of any Christians who think otherwise. As a result, some Catholics ask Mary to pray for them. Just as we ask people we relate to in our struggles to pray for us, Catholics also ask those who have passed on to pray to God.

We know that scripture tells us that the dead are not unaware, rather, as Luke 15:7 states: "I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance." Thus, we believe they know our hearts, as God reveals it to them, and so they also pray for us, and rejoice in our repentance.

I think really good people misunderstand Catholicism, for one reason or another.

Erroneous. Jesus makes it very clear that prayer is done by His name and no other name. Catholics want to keep their own tradition and be disobedient. Good, do as you wish and explain to GOD with your excuses.

Is the bible not sufficient enough for you that you need "catholic theology"? Explain why being catholic or studying their "theology" important? As for me, Jesus is the only name to pray under and to. Mary cannot hear your prayers, she cannot answer your prayers. You're statement is not biblically sound and completely disrespectful to Christ.

I was a Catholic, coming from a huge catholic family of over 200+ catholics, went to Catholic school for 13 years. I know the deal, the insight. I'm certainly not blindly speaking of the ridiculous doctrine they teach.

[h=3]John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.[/h]