Are the Gifts of the Spirit Still for Today? — Tongues, Power, and the Proof of Salvation

[First and the Last]

Few subjects ignite Christian conversation like the question of spiritual gifts—especially the gift of tongues. From the day of Pentecost until now, believers have wrestled with what it truly means to be “filled with the Holy Ghost.” Is speaking in tongues still the evidence of that infilling, or was it only for the early church?

Some say that the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with tongues as the initial sign, is essential to salvation—a divine seal of sonship and the same experience the apostles received in Acts 2. Others argue that salvation is by faith alone, and tongues are simply one of many gifts distributed at God’s discretion, not a universal proof of redemption.

The debate touches the very core of what it means to be born again. If the Spirit is the seal of salvation (Ephesians 1:13), does the absence of the gifts indicate an incomplete conversion? Or is the Spirit’s presence measured not by manifestation but by transformation—the fruits of the Spirit rather than the gifts?

This tension between evidence and experience, faith and manifestation, has divided denominations and stirred countless testimonies. Some believers speak of heavenly languages that strengthen their spirit, while others caution against emotionalism and counterfeit expressions.

So the question stands:

“If the Holy Ghost was poured out on the day of Pentecost as the sign of the new covenant, can anyone truly claim salvation without the same experience?”

Let’s talk about it —

Are tongues and other gifts still operating in the church today?

Does the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues mark salvation, or simply empower the already saved?

And if the early church needed those gifts to demonstrate divine power, what does it say about the church today if we operate without them?

 

[B-A-C]

Thread 'Baptism in the Holy Spirit : revisited'

May 27, 2020

This has been talked about before here, but recent threads have reminded me about it again.

Some denominations believe you either have the Holy Spirit, or you don't. Virtually all Pentecostal denominations believe in two separate events.
1. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit
2. The "baptism" of the Holy Spirit.

Keep in mind here, that if they are one and the same event, that means nobody in the Bible received the Holy Spirit when they first believed.
John the Baptist is kind of a special case. He always had the Holy Spirit from birth. ( Luke 1:15; )
But everyone else received it...

• B-A-C
• Replies: 77
• Forum: Bible Study

 

[Gerbolski]

Act 19:1-7
(1) And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
(2) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
(3) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
(4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
(5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
(6) And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
(7) And all the men were about twelve.


These 12, were already believers, and at salvation you do get the Holy Ghost, but concerning the baptism of the Holy Ghost, it is to endue us with power from on high for service, which the initial evidence is speaking in tongues.

When you receive Christ, you get saved, you are fully immersed into Christ, and have the Holy Ghost, but full immersion in the Holy Ghost, happens when you receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

It is the cross of calvary, through what Christ did thereon, and his resurrection, that saves us, but the Holy Ghost baptism does not save us, but it does endue us with power on high for service.

 

[Bill]

Few subjects ignite Christian conversation like the question of spiritual gifts—especially the gift of tongues. From the day of Pentecost until now, believers have wrestled with what it truly means to be “filled with the Holy Ghost.” Is speaking in tongues still the evidence of that infilling, or was it only for the early church?

Some say that the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with tongues as the initial sign, is essential to salvation—a divine seal of sonship and the same experience the apostles received in Acts 2. Others argue that salvation is by faith alone, and tongues are simply one of many gifts distributed at God’s discretion, not a universal proof of redemption.

The debate touches the very core of what it means to be born again. If the Spirit is the seal of salvation (Ephesians 1:13), does the absence of the gifts indicate an incomplete conversion? Or is the Spirit’s presence measured not by manifestation but by transformation—the fruits of the Spirit rather than the gifts?

This tension between evidence and experience, faith and manifestation, has divided denominations and stirred countless testimonies. Some believers speak of heavenly languages that strengthen their spirit, while others caution against emotionalism and counterfeit expressions.

So the question stands:

“If the Holy Ghost was poured out on the day of Pentecost as the sign of the new covenant, can anyone truly claim salvation without the same experience?”

Let’s talk about it —

Are tongues and other gifts still operating in the church today?

Does the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues mark salvation, or simply empower the already saved?

And if the early church needed those gifts to demonstrate divine power, what does it say about the church today if we operate without them?

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

I can't fully agree with you that you NEED to have the gift of tongues to show that you're filled with the spirit.
Because Paul makes the comment about speaking in tongues, that if you don't have a translator you might as well not be speaking it. And in these days I have seen it over and over again where people will try to translate it, and the translation will be wrong.

I used to go to some charismatic groups years ago, but I found that the pride and side of the charismatic groups to be overwhelming. I told them all that they should strive for humility. And include praying normal prayers and as well as the other type. But they didn't seem to understand why we need to pray like the Our Father and other normal prayers. It was like it was beneath them or something.

If you read much of my own writing I will tell people that I think discernment is one of the more important gifts primarily because of these type of things. When a person tries to translate and everybody else there can't do it or they can't discern whether or not that particular translation is actually accurate. Then there creates a problem.

I know on two separate occasions where I was present when a person was speaking in tongues and then they had a person translating and I've got a completely different translation than that person did. And I know that mine is accurate, and the translations were opposite. In both cases the translation that I got from the Lord, the Lord was talking about how he is suffering because of the sin of mankind, and he was calling people to prayer.

Both of the translators said that God was pleased with the community and to keep doing what it's doing.

Even here I try to tell people that the gifts are something that needs to be practiced and not expect it to be a one-time gig. It takes time to develop the gifts there's no doubt in my mind about it. Don't just jump to the conclusion that just because you got the gifts of the Spirit you know everything because you don't.

Let me put it this way, let's see God is telling you to walk on the water. Do you have the faith right now to actually do that. Would you trust in the voice inside your head that you know is God, and actually walk on the water? I highly doubt it. Even Twisty who I know has great faith may fail on that particular thing.

We trust in God for the little things, things that we can actually put our teeth into, our faith. But we struggle a lot when it comes to putting our faith in God on big things. Unless you have tons and tons and tons of confirmations, and even then in many cases still struggle.

 

[Gerbolski]

I used to go to some charismatic groups years ago, but I found that the pride and side of the charismatic groups to be overwhelming. I told them all that they should strive for humility. And include praying normal prayers and as well as the other type. But they didn't seem to understand why we need to pray like the Our Father and other normal prayers. It was like it was beneath them or something.

Ya some groups tend to go to extremes at times.

1Co 14:15
(15) What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

In the context of 1Corinthians chapter 14, when it mentions to pray in the Spirit, in this particular case, it refers to tongues, and in the understanding, it is the language you know.

And it is very important to have balance.

 

[Bill]

Act 19:1-7
(1) And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
(2) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
(3) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
(4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
(5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
(6) And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
(7) And all the men were about twelve.


These 12, were already believers, and at salvation you do get the Holy Ghost, but concerning the baptism of the Holy Ghost, it is to endue us with power from on high for service, which the initial evidence is speaking in tongues.

When you receive Christ, you get saved, you are fully immersed into Christ, and have the Holy Ghost, but full immersion in the Holy Ghost, happens when you receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

It is the cross of calvary, through what Christ did thereon, and his resurrection, that saves us, but the Holy Ghost baptism does not save us, but it does endue us with power on high for service.

I know what you are trying to say, but in my experience, nearly every time a person recieves the baptism in water, they do not have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Of course there's always exceptions and I understand that. I look at John the Baptist as a good example of that as he had received the Holy Spirit In the Womb of his own mother.

But for the vast majority of us it would be safe to say that we need to receive that second baptism. The baptism of fire and God's power. There's another issue at stake here too it depends on how fertile your heart is.

Jesus talks about the sower the one who plants the seeds in the ground. And this is not only true with faith but it is also true with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. That if a person's heart is not fertile that they're not going to receive the baptism the Holy Spirit at least in its fullness. We can see how other people are when they have a really strong fullness of the Holy Spirit and how God moves in them. And Then There are other people who do not have a strong gift of the spirit and how weak it is in them it is only because of your fertileness of your heart. If your heart is fertile full of love you're going to get the fullness of the Holy Spirit. But if you can't forgive others and you can't receive forgiveness and you have a hardness of your heart you're going to have little faith and it will be difficult to receive a baptism of the spirit

 

[Gerbolski]

I know what you are trying to say, but in my experience, nearly every time a person recieves the baptism in water, they do not have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Of course there's always exceptions and I understand that.

Ya I do find that as well.

 

[Bill]

Few subjects ignite Christian conversation like the question of spiritual gifts—especially the gift of tongues. From the day of Pentecost until now, believers have wrestled with what it truly means to be “filled with the Holy Ghost.” Is speaking in tongues still the evidence of that infilling, or was it only for the early church?

Some say that the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with tongues as the initial sign, is essential to salvation—a divine seal of sonship and the same experience the apostles received in Acts 2. Others argue that salvation is by faith alone, and tongues are simply one of many gifts distributed at God’s discretion, not a universal proof of redemption.

The debate touches the very core of what it means to be born again. If the Spirit is the seal of salvation (Ephesians 1:13), does the absence of the gifts indicate an incomplete conversion? Or is the Spirit’s presence measured not by manifestation but by transformation—the fruits of the Spirit rather than the gifts?

This tension between evidence and experience, faith and manifestation, has divided denominations and stirred countless testimonies. Some believers speak of heavenly languages that strengthen their spirit, while others caution against emotionalism and counterfeit expressions.

So the question stands:

“If the Holy Ghost was poured out on the day of Pentecost as the sign of the new covenant, can anyone truly claim salvation without the same experience?”

Let’s talk about it —

Are tongues and other gifts still operating in the church today?

Does the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues mark salvation, or simply empower the already saved?

And if the early church needed those gifts to demonstrate divine power, what does it say about the church today if we operate without them?

There is no debate unless the person lives under a rock.

All the gifts of the holy spirit are still there. The problem is mostly that people's faith has become so weak you can't punch your way out of a paper bag with your own faith.

Where now is the faith to heal a person instantly. Where now is the faith to bring a demon out of a person. Where now is the faith to do many things.

People who are so stuck on looking for confirmations for everything do not know how to live on faith. Because their opposites. Having confirmations for every cotton-picking thing and living on faith are opposites.

 

[Gerbolski]

The promise

Act 2:4
(4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Act 2:11
(11) Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Act 2:33
(33) Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Act 2:38-39
(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


Well we know that on the day of Pentecost, the Holy Ghost was sent down.

And once they were filled, they began to speak in tongues, but int this case, in other tongues, that is tongues they did not personally know, but some other people knew.

And they spoke of the wonderful works of God.

Then in verse 33, it mentions the receiving of the promise of the Holy Ghost, which was evidenced of people by what was shed forth, which they could now see and here, which was tongues.

And in verse 38, Peter says for people to repent, and be baptized, which speaks of water baptism, and then it speaks of the receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.

And for the most part it is get saved, water baptism, then the Holy Ghost baptism, but it is not always the case.

So what was the gift of the Holy Ghost ?

Well we know that we all get the Holy Ghost at salvation, but here it was not talking about salvation, but a gift that comes about through the Holy Ghost, which they could see, which was tongues.

And this promise of the baptism of the Holy Ghost, which is evidenced by this gift of tongues, that they could see, is a promise to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call, so yes it is for today.

 

[Gerbolski]

Born again and the other experience of the baptism of the Holy Ghost


1Pe 1:3
(3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Of course, in order for man to be able to be born again or begotten again, what needed to happen was the cross and resurrection of Christ, but also Christ going to the right hand of the Father and sending back the Holy Ghost.

And we become born again through repentance, and receiving Christ as our Lord and savior, and acknowledging what he did.

Well here are interesting verses, that I learnt from a preacher, which speaks of the born again experience on the day of Pentecost.

I will compare verses in the book of John, with verses in the book of Acts.

Joh 3:7-8 (7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (8) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Act 2:2 (2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

Very similar isn't it.

And here are verses on the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Act 1:8 (8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Act 2:3-4 (3) And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. (4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

 

[Bill]

The promise

Act 2:4
(4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Act 2:11
(11) Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Act 2:33
(33) Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Act 2:38-39
(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


Well we know that on the day of Pentecost, the Holy Ghost was sent down.

And once they were filled, they began to speak in tongues, but int this case, in other tongues, that is tongues they did not personally know, but some other people knew.

And they spoke of the wonderful works of God.

Then in verse 33, it mentions the receiving of the promise of the Holy Ghost, which was evidenced of people by what was shed forth, which they could now see and here, which was tongues.

And in verse 38, Peter says for people to repent, and be baptized, which speaks of water baptism, and then it speaks of the receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.

And for the most part it is get saved, water baptism, then the Holy Ghost baptism, but it is not always the case.

So what was the gift of the Holy Ghost ?

Well we know that we all get the Holy Ghost at salvation, but here it was not talking about salvation, but a gift that comes about through the Holy Ghost, which they could see, which was tongues.

And this promise of the baptism of the Holy Ghost, which is evidenced by this gift of tongues, that they could see, is a promise to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call, so yes it is for today.

Even the wise men, even though they did not know the Spirit or Jesus, recognized God, and the movement of God through the Stars. It convicted them enough to travel from Far countries to Jerusalem to meet the King of Israel. They understood the means of God better than most Israelites did.

 

[Gerbolski]

The gift of the Holy Ghost

Act 2:38-39
(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Is there a verse that ties this gift of the Holy Ghost to tongues ?

Act 10:45-46
(45) And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(46) For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

It is tying in the gift of the Holy Ghost with tongues here.

For it says that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost, then it mentions the word "for", associating what was just said, with the hearing of them speaking with tongues.

So Act 2:38, harmonizes with Act 10:45-46.

 

[Christ4Ever]

In the gifts that include tongues, I see them as having the ability to be two different things. One being the language of man, and the other being the language of God.

For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands [him]; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 1 Corinthians 14:2

On the above I have known men of faith, who do so privately in prayer. In a closet if you will. At the moment I do not recall whether they knew what each of them were saying or not but say it they did.

Then again, the verse above, just might equate to the very reason for it does not require speaking to all"...does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands [him];" is because not only those who speak in tongues are able to interpret what they are say; for it's another gift of the Spirit as well which one who speaks in tongues may or may not have the ability to do.

I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies [is] greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification. 1 Corinthians 14:5

Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. ... 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, [let there be] two or at the most three, [each] in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. 1 Corinthians 14:13, 27-28

I have never spoken in tongues, though I have asked to do so. Not all have gifts of the Spirit, while some may have more than one and some may even have a gift with no awareness of what it may be while in use, they still do it to His Glory & Praise. \o/

Surely there is more that can be said on this subject, for some believe the gifts of the Spirit are no longer applicable, while others believe they continue to this day. However, since tongues were being spoken of here, I thought I would share what I have seen through my reading of Scripture and those who have been blessed with this gift.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[First and the Last]

I can't fully agree with you that you NEED to have the gift of tongues to show that you're filled with the spirit.
Because Paul makes the comment about speaking in tongues, that if you don't have a translator you might as well not be speaking it. And in these days I have seen it over and over again where people will try to translate it, and the translation will be wrong.

I used to go to some charismatic groups years ago, but I found that the pride and side of the charismatic groups to be overwhelming. I told them all that they should strive for humility. And include praying normal prayers and as well as the other type. But they didn't seem to understand why we need to pray like the Our Father and other normal prayers. It was like it was beneath them or something.

If you read much of my own writing I will tell people that I think discernment is one of the more important gifts primarily because of these type of things. When a person tries to translate and everybody else there can't do it or they can't discern whether or not that particular translation is actually accurate. Then there creates a problem.

I know on two separate occasions where I was present when a person was speaking in tongues and then they had a person translating and I've got a completely different translation than that person did. And I know that mine is accurate, and the translations were opposite. In both cases the translation that I got from the Lord, the Lord was talking about how he is suffering because of the sin of mankind, and he was calling people to prayer.

Both of the translators said that God was pleased with the community and to keep doing what it's doing.

Even here I try to tell people that the gifts are something that needs to be practiced and not expect it to be a one-time gig. It takes time to develop the gifts there's no doubt in my mind about it. Don't just jump to the conclusion that just because you got the gifts of the Spirit you know everything because you don't.

Let me put it this way, let's see God is telling you to walk on the water. Do you have the faith right now to actually do that. Would you trust in the voice inside your head that you know is God, and actually walk on the water? I highly doubt it. Even Twisty who I know has great faith may fail on that particular thing.

We trust in God for the little things, things that we can actually put our teeth into, our faith. But we struggle a lot when it comes to putting our faith in God on big things. Unless you have tons and tons and tons of confirmations, and even then in many cases still struggle.

I really appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences — especially the part about discernment and the danger of pride. You’re absolutely right that any spiritual gift, if it isn’t grounded in humility and tested by Scripture, can easily drift into confusion or even self-promotion. I’ve seen that too, and it grieves me the same way.


Where I think our perspectives differ isn’t on whether gifts can be misused (they certainly can), but on what the New Testament describes as the initial sign of the Spirit’s arrival versus the ongoing function of the gifts inside the church.


For me, Acts 2, Acts 10, and Acts 19 aren’t about church-service gifts like interpretation or public tongues — they’re describing what happened when someone received the Holy Ghost for the first time. Those moments weren’t about edifying the congregation; they were about God marking a transition from death to life. That’s why interpretation isn’t mentioned in any of those salvation contexts — it wasn’t a message to others, it was a sign of the Spirit taking residence inside an individual.


Paul’s teaching in 1 Corinthians 12–14, which you mentioned, is talking about tongues in the assembly, where interpretation is required for the sake of order. But the same Paul still says, “I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all” (and he wasn’t always doing that publicly). So I don’t see the private prayer language or the initial evidence as contradicting Paul — they’re just different categories than the public gift that requires interpretation.


I absolutely agree with you that discernment is necessary. Not every utterance in a service is genuine, and not every translation is trustworthy. But I don’t believe the misuse of a gift invalidates the gift itself any more than false prophecy invalidates true prophecy. Abuses just make us more careful, not less open.


And I also agree with you about faith in the “big things.” Most of us trust God easily in theory but wrestle in practice — even Peter sank when he took his eyes off Jesus, and he had the greatest faith in the boat. So I don’t use tongues as a measure of spiritual superiority or maturity. It’s not a badge you earn — it’s simply the sign God repeatedly used when someone crossed from the old life into the new.


At the end of the day, I’m not trying to diminish anyone’s walk with God. I’m only trying to stay close to the pattern I see repeated in Scripture. If God chose tongues as the first evidence of the Spirit in Acts, I don’t want to explain it away just because some people have misused it. The answer isn’t to avoid the gift — it’s to embrace it with humility, order, and discernment.


Thanks again for sharing your heart. These are the kinds of conversations that actually help us grow instead of just defending our camps.

 

[B-A-C]

Not all have gifts of the Spirit,

All who have been baptized in the Holy Spirit have at least one gift.

1Cor 12
4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.
6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

..."all" persons", not some. "each one", not some.

 

[B-A-C]

1Cor 14
When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. All things are to be done for edification.
27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, it must be by two or at the most three, and each one in turn, and one is to interpret;
28 but if there is no interpreter, he is to keep silent in church; and have him speak to himself and to God.
29 Have two or three prophets speak, and have the others pass judgment
33 for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace.