Are we ALL the offspring of God??

[Samson2020]

Paul in Athens, speaking to the general public.

Acts 17:22 "Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, Him declare I unto you.
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; neither is worshipped with men's hands;
as though He needed anything, seeing He giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on the face of the earth, and
hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after Him, and find Him, though He be not far from every one of us:
FOR IN HIM WE LIVE, AND MOVE, AND HAVE OUR BEING; AS CERTAIN OF YOUR OWN POETS HAVE SAID, FOR WE ARE ALSO HIS OFFSPRING.
FORASMUCH THEN AS WE ARE THE OFFSPRING OF GOD......................"

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31-Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that man (Jesus) whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men,
in that He(God) hath raised him(Jesus) from the dead.

Now as Paul states that all men are the offspring of God, (which would include Jesus by 31's reading) where and who were we before being placed in this earthen vessel? And for what purpose? Keeping in mind that Paul also stated that God did not need any thing.

 

[B-A-C]

I would say everyone who was ever created was created by God. So in that sense yes. However...

John 8:44; "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Heb 12:7; It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Heb 12:8; But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

John 1:12; But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

Matt 5:44; "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Matt 5:45; so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Matt 23:15; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

Gal 4:7; Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.

 

[Samson2020]

"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father.

We cannot be the offspring of God as Paul states, and be of the Devil, except in the sense that we were turned over to he that had the power of death and lorded over us as a task master
that most are still under in that they are servants of sin. Did Satan beget anyone? Is he the father of lights (spirits)?
In doing the desires of the Devil it proves that their master is the carnal mind and they walk according to the flesh. However; without the spirit the body is dead and so is the mind. But those
who follow after unrighteousness are still alive thus their spirit, given by God, is still in them but asleep(dead) due to sin/trespass of the flesh/mind overwhelming it. They cannot fight the fight
until awakened, born from above.

Heb 12:8; But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

Interesting verse. (ALL have become partakers of no discipline) is this of the childs own choosing or is it the responsibility of the parent?
In our particular case, once we are born from above we are turned from iniquity and unto righteousness, thus being partakers of Gods discipline because He chose to begin that process
of turning us into sons at the time He saw fit.

Would you agree?

Heb 5:8-9 "Though He were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He suffered; And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them
that obey Him.

So could we say that even Jesus needed to learn obedience?
He, being the first Son, who was disciplined unto the point of perfection thus becoming the author of eternal salvation as per Gods plan?

 

[B-A-C]

So could we say that even Jesus needed to learn obedience?

Good question, I had heard a few sermons/theories on this.

Mark 14:36; And He was saying, "Abba! Father! All things are possible for You; remove this cup from Me; yet not what I will, but what You will."
Luke 22:42; saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."

It seems that for the first in all the eons of eternity, Jesus had to do something He would have rather not done.
But of course, in the end, He did do it.

once we are born from above we are turned from iniquity and unto righteousness, thus being partakers of Gods discipline because He chose to begin that process
of turning us into sons at the time

Questions like this inevitably turn to OSAS, but for sake of argument let us say OSAS is correct. I still at some point have to get saved. I wasn't born saved.

 

[Samson2020]

It seems that for the first in all the eons of eternity, Jesus had to do something He would have rather not done.

Indeed this was His experience of possessing the carnal mind, which had never occurred until the garden hours. If you look back just a few hours earlier He rebuked Peter for even
suggesting that He not be crucified. "Get thee behind me Satan for thou lovest not the things that be of God." Then He is doing the same thing. But that was a necessary experience
in that He must be made like unto His brethren. In order to be a more compassionate High Priest for the men who lived with a carnal mind most to all their lives He needed to partake
of that same mind.
Odd part is He never had a problem with His own sacrifice until that mind took control when the sin of the world was placed upon Him. Fear of death? Pain?
Don't really matter as He submitted to the Fathers will and we all know the rest of the story.

Questions like this inevitably turn to OSAS, but for sake of argument let us say OSAS is correct. I still at some point have to get saved. I wasn't born saved.

Very true, you were placed here in an earthen vessel to experience good and evil, and be a sinner, until the time God chose to call you out from that position to start his discipline of
you to make you a son.
You were saved according to when God chose you to be saved. "No man can come to me except the Father call him."?

 

[MrBear]

It’s true jesus was part divine and part human
He was well versed in his knowledge of the scripture at the time and knew the suffering servent
He knew his death was not going to be a peaceful one
His human side kicked in and asked for this cup ( cup meaning burden in the Bible) be taken from him - I think like most of us would ask
But he sacrificed his will for the Fathers which he did for all of us Jews and gentiles alike
Reminds me of the story of the 2 soldiers

During an intense battle, one of the American soldiers was killed. His comrades did not want to leave his body on the battlefield and decided to give him a Christian burial.

They remembered a church a few miles behind the front lines whose grounds included a small cemetery surrounded by a white fence. After receiving permission to take their friend’s body to the cemetery.
They banged on the church door till a priest answered
“ we need to bury our friend” they said
The priest asked “ is he Catholic?”
They said no
“ then he can’t be buried in the graveyard”
So they buried thier friend right outside the fence
The next day they came back to visit thier friend and they couldn’t find the grave anywhere!
They found the old priest and explained they couldn’t find thier friend
A smile flashed across the old priest’s face. “After you left last night, I could not sleep, I was so troubled by the “ laws” i was moved by the spirit so I went outside early this morning and I moved the fence.
By going to the cross Jesus sacrificed his will and moved the fence to include us all in Gods family that we should inherit the kingdom
Yes we are Gods children, even though our sins disrupt that relationship, just like worldly people do, if we repent the Father will accept his family back and give us our inheritance as promised Brothers and Sisters
SHALOM

 

[K9Buckeye]

That's a great question. Here's my take. We are ALL born children of God but, over the course of life, we choose who will be our spiritual father. Some choose God but many choose Satan, even if they don't know it.

 

[MrBear]

That's a great question. Here's my take. We are ALL born children of God but, over the course of life, we choose who will be our spiritual father. Some choose God but many choose Satan, even if they don't know it.

That’s true unfortunately a lot of our brothers and sisters choose to stray, they are still family and I pray they will find the truth
I look at it from another angle
Iam my earthly fathers son by blood we are bound
I can run away I can even change my name but it won’t change the fact I’m still bound by blood to my Dad
I can choose not to do what he says and disrupt the harmony, But still the connection does not sever
Jesus paid for our sins with his blood and by blood we are Brothers and Sisters in Christ
We can choose to disobey and disrupt the harmony, but once we accept our lord and savior we are bound by blood, We have the inheritance promised to us all we have to do is ask
Bound by blood
SHALOM

 

[TheWordIsOne]

It is in this world I do not know who I am, remember Malcolm X last name the symbol X in his last name meaning a true family never known

 

[TheWordIsOne]

It is in this world I do not know who I am, remember Malcolm X last name the symbol X in his last name meaning a true family never known

sorry guys maybe, there is a lot more to life, than all of this, wondering where life ends, and when life begins it is like deja vu, I saw this all before, a man in a cage. Earthbound the soul is an eternal clock, from birth ever moving, the soul is in motion, ever learning no end deja vu

 

[Samson2020]

This part is the part that no one seems to want to touch or it's possibly been overlooked?

Now as Paul states that all men are the offspring of God, (which would include Jesus by 31's reading) where and who were we before being placed in this earthen vessel? And for what purpose? Keeping in mind that Paul also stated that God did not need any thing.

 

[B-A-C]

This part is the part that no one seems to want to touch or it's possibly been overlooked?

Acts 17:31; because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."

There will be a judgment day. For everyone in one fashion or another. It appears there are several group who judge different groups. But in this context, I take "a Man whom He has appointed" to be Jesus.

Matt 12:41; "The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

Luke 11:31; "The Queen of the South will rise up with the men of this generation at the judgment and condemn them, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here.

1Cor 6:2; Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?
1Cor 6:3; Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?

Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Rom 14:10; But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.

2Cor 5:10; For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

To me Acts 17:31; is saying God is showing you who the judge will be because He raised Him from the dead.

 

[Samson2020]

To me Acts 17:31; is saying God is showing you who the judge will be because He raised Him from the dead.

No problem there. It's the questions posed after that that needs answers.

Heb 11:15 "And truly if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to return."

The country is "the kingdom" from whence they came (God Himself)
but only in feminine spiritual form to be placed into earthen vessels to learn good and evil through experiencing both sides. Then at the time appointed of the Father to begin a return to Him,
but this time the returning child will be a full fledged son. Not a feminine spirit that needs to be sustained.

 

[B-A-C]

Heb 11:15 "And truly if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to return."

The country is "the kingdom" from whence they came (God Himself)
but only in feminine spiritual form to be placed into earthen vessels to learn good and evil through experiencing both sides. Then at the time appointed of the Father to begin a return to Him,
but this time the returning child will be a full fledged son. Not a feminine spirit that needs to be sustained.

This gets really heavy with a lot of symbolism and metaphors. I will try to give the condensed version here. ( It probably deserves a thread of it's own )
God told Abraham to walk around a certain area of land He told him would be his. This not only includes modern day Israel, but also parts of Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, and Syria.
Sometime shortly after Joseph was in Egypt, the Jews became slaves to the Egyptians. This was the situation for over 400 years. Along comes Moses to lead them
back to the promised land. The land God promised to the descendants of Abraham. ( Canaan ). As you know they wondered around the desert for 40 years, but the
generation that left Egypt, never entered Canaan, (not even Moses) they got close enough to see it, but they died off before entering.

So in a sense, this is the country they came from, that they should have returned to ( the next generation eventually did with Joshua and Gideon )
Also Egypt represent sin. Some Jews wanted to return to the bondage of Egypt rather than wander around the desert. Some "Christians" want to return to
the bondage of sin.

There was a time when the nation of Israel as a whole was considered God's people, in His kingdom... they have since drifted away.
But God desires them to return to the country they came out of.

I'm leaving a lot out... and not giving much scriptural support here (although I feel I can if needed) but it's the best I can do in the time I have.

 

[Samson2020]

I understand the time issue. But this has nothing to do with a physical piece of land. This is truly spiritual. A spiritual country, an heavenly, whose maker is God. Heb 11:16

 

[B-A-C]

I understand the time issue. But this has nothing to do with a physical piece of land. This is truly spiritual. A spiritual country, an heavenly, whose maker is God. Heb 11:16

Perhaps, But I believe it was both.

Heb 4:1; Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.
Heb 4:2; For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.
Heb 4:3; For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, "AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4; For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS";
Heb 4:5; and again in this passage, "THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST."
Heb 4:6; Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,
Heb 4:7; He again fixes a certain day, "Today," saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before, "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS."
Heb 4:8; For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.
Heb 4:9; So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Is the place of rest here, only spiritual?

 

[B-A-C]

Heb 3:16; For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses?
Heb 3:17; And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18; And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient?
Heb 3:19; So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

 

[Samson2020]

Is the place of rest here, only spiritual?

Yes as you will continue to fight a spiritual warfare against all that you see, hear, feel ,and smell that tells you that Gods word is not the truth.
However; once that spiritual rest is entered into then there will no longer be a war against the flesh. The rest increases as ones spirit takes over in the fight. You then stand as a son
of God doing only the will/works of your Father, God.
Heb 4:10 "For he that has entered into His rest, hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His." This person understands it really is finished but you just cant see it yet with the naked eye.

Heb 3 are examples of unbelief and are not really pertinent here.

Old Testament will always show in the physical what the spiritual implication is for us today. Which is what the writer was conveying using the examples in 3.

 

[Samson2020]

Ephesians 4:25 "Wherefore put away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbor: FOR WE ARE MEMBERS ONE OF ANOTHER."

Lets keep in mind before rebutting that the majority, if not all, of your neighbors are not of the elect. Yet

 

[Reba1]

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.