Jesus teaches-- Love amongst themselves would be 1 of the true marks of his religion. Paul teaches-1Corinthians 1:10--Unity of thought ( all of Gods truth) no division. WOW, now this is very hard to see. Wikipedia says there are about 34,000 different religions claiming to belong to Jesus--Is the holy spirit that confused or have men twisted it into oblivion? And they do not have holy spirit as each one claims to have? I see the words-no division meaning 1 single religion out of the 34,000. God only had 1 single religion in the OT. So how does one choose. That is simple. By applying all that Jesus teaches makes the picture much more clear.
Are we really "disciples" of Christ and do we make "Disciples' prescribed by JESUS?
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Wikipedia is wrong. The number given has to do with legal governance - about 34,000 different legal protestant church organizations. In all, there are maybe a hundred (if even) that have significant doctrinal differences that might indicate a separate Christian "religion".
Based upon the two most important doctrines, that of Soteriology and Ecclesiastical Authority, there are three major branches to Christianity - Catholic; Protestant; & Pentecostal. Numerous lesser doctrines cause various churches within these branches to legally separate from one another. I know of one church that split into two over the issue of whether to bury dead bodies facing East, so they wouldn't have to turn around at the second coming. Does this make them a different religion? (34,001?) The consequences of the Lutheran Reformation ultimately made each individual their own pope. From that perspective, one might then have a couple of million different Christian religions.
Satan's perversion of the gospel is actually written into the New Testament texts themselves, but this is a most difficult truth for people to handle.
No, they do not.
One doesn't. One is chosen.
The "religion" of Jesus is based upon the revelation (of certain truths) by the Father -
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
(Matthew 16:15-18 KJV)
The church of Jesus is built upon the rock of the Father revealing to each of us that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. Please note, though, that the text does not say, "Thou are the Christ, God Himself, the second person of the Holy Trinity" so... right there is a significant doctrine (the Doctrine of Christology) that divides Christians into different religions.
And just what did Jesus teach about the forgiveness of sins? How is one to receive this? (I know, but was just wondering if we have different views on this - I'm sure we do.)
Rhema
A good day to you Rhema, Yes the Father sends one to his son, Then the son sends that one to his Father. In his real religion this occurs. The rest have chosen wrong.
Yes there are translating errors in most bibles--This has caused much confusion. The biggest one is a capitol G God in the last line at John 1:1, It contradicts the teachings of Jesus and the facts of true God worship history. in the Greek lexicon, In the second line talking about the true living God and many places in the NT, the word Ho proceeded Theos. There is no Ho in the last line, just plain Theos. The only word in Greek for either God or god is Theos. Ho is the differential. It did not call the Logos Ho Theos, just plain Theos. That would actually mean was divine, or has godlike qualities. This is why Jesus has godlike qualities-- Gods power went through Jesus.( Acts 2:22) God did it all. Same as with Moses, Moses didnt part the red sea, God did it through him.
It is clear Acts 3:19-Repentence gets sin blotted out. Repentence = the stopping of the doing of sin, and one ask forgiveness. If one asks forgiveness then keeps repeating that sin and asking forgiveness, that is not repentence, That is being a worker of iniquity( lawlessness) And one does not want to hear these words from Jesus found at Matthew 7:22-23( this is judgement scenario) he will tell those--Getaway from me, you that work iniquity( practicer of sin) i must confess, i never even knew you. Many Jaws will be dropped by those words. Because many are told-You are saved, yet practice sin.
It is clear at 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, and Galations 5:19-21-- Both spots teach, if one practices one of these, they will NOT enter Gods kingdom( be saved)--Paul used the word spiritism in Galations. The Greek word is Farmacia-Drugs. In the Corinthian one it states--This is what some of you were= past tense. They stopped doing those sins. That doesnt even mention all the false god worship prevelent throughout the earth.
Some teachers try to say Jesus death covers all sin. It is not true.
I was pretty bad in my youth. a drug dealing, drunkard, who fornicated and stole all the time. An ex schoolmate asked me to go to a baptist church with her, so i did. The pastor assurred me if i said 3 lines of prayer with him, i was saved. The bible clearly shows different since i was unrepententat that point.
I will stop here, i hope you will continue with our conversation.
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Well I can say that there are a lot of Christianities out there that are unreal, man.
It's also unreal when I see people driving alone in their car with a mask on.
Yet that's the thing, and I'm pretty sure we disagree here (and can do so without being disagreeable). I don't think any human chooses to be saved.
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
(John 15:16 KJV)
And yes, I've encountered the excuse that Jesus was only speaking to his disciples right then and there and to no one else, but within a broader context I don't find that credible. The beginning of that passage gives the scope to whom it applies.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
(John 15:2 KJV)
Now if we have been chosen to be disciples, though, I can see where at times we might make a choice that interferes with the "bringing forth fruit" that the Father would desire. I know my life has been impaired by the lack of faith expressed in the life of a brother of the faith, as others have suffered when I flubbed the faith.
And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
(Luke 17:5 KJV)
I laugh in amusement, not in ridicule, because, my friend, that is so WAYYY not the biggest translation error. The most evil is 2 Tim 3:16, because the mistranslation is purposeful. Now it's difficult at times when encountering new people, because we don't truly know the extent of each other's education. I've been using the Greek text of the New Testament for nearly 50 years. And I'm not trying to diminish your education when pointing out that the initial Greek texts didn't have Capitalization, because there were no "lower case letters." These developed starting around the 800's, and I'm sure you know they're called "minuscule." To that end, all capitalization can be construed as a translation error.
Greek minuscule - Wikipedia
We're even pretty good at dating manuscripts based upon the typography - the way the letters are written.
Now with regards to John 1:1 phrase one reads - εν αρχη ην ο λογος
While I just read this text directly, it's meaning would be expressed in English as - The Pattern was suffused throughout the cosmic protoplasm.
Unfortunately, no, I don't have the days it would take to guide you (or most anyone for that matter) through the process as to why I read John 1:1a this way. And to be honest, I have not found any other believer out there who ascribes to the same Doctrine of Christology as I do. (Maybe I'll write a book.)
Well I would encourage you to dig a bit deeper into this matter. What you've presented is based upon Greek grammar (not "lexicon"). And I am curious why you stipulate that "Ho is the differential". Isn't it merely the definite article?
You might like this paper on Differential Argument Marking that considers exceptions to the nominative – accusative case system. I mention this since the last phrase in John 1:1 (θεος ην ο λογος) contains no word in the accusative case - both are in the nominative case.
Please feel free to either start a new thread or move our conversation into a PM if it strays too far off the OP. (Ploughboy can get irritated at times.)
Rhema
Oh, and of course allow for the holidays etc. when I just don't have the time to post.
Well I can say that there are a lot of Christianities out there that are unreal, man.
It's also unreal when I see people driving alone in their car with a mask on.
Yet that's the thing, and I'm pretty sure we disagree here (and can do so without being disagreeable). I don't think any human chooses to be saved.
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.(John 15:16 KJV)
And yes, I've encountered the excuse that Jesus was only speaking to his disciples right then and there and to no one else, but within a broader context I don't find that credible. The beginning of that passage gives the scope to whom it applies.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.(John 15:2 KJV)
Now if we have been chosen to be disciples, though, I can see where at times we might make a choice that interferes with the "bringing forth fruit" that the Father would desire. I know my life has been impaired by the lack of faith expressed in the life of a brother of the faith, as others have suffered when I flubbed the faith.
And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.(Luke 17:5 KJV)
(It's worth the read.)Greek minuscule - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
We're even pretty good at dating manuscripts based upon the typography - the way the letters are written.
Now with regards to John 1:1 phrase one reads - εν αρχη ην ο λογος
While I just read this text directly, it's meaning would be expressed in English as - The Pattern was suffused throughout the cosmic protoplasm.
Unfortunately, no, I don't have the days it would take to guide you (or most anyone for that matter) through the process as to why I read John 1:1a this way. And to be honest, I have not found any other believer out there who ascribes to the same Doctrine of Christology as I do. (Maybe I'll write a book.)
Well I would encourage you to dig a bit deeper into this matter. What you've presented is based upon Greek grammar (not "lexicon"). And I am curious why you stipulate that "Ho is the differential". Isn't it merely the definite article?
You might like this paper on Differential Argument Marking that considers exceptions to the nominative – accusative case system. I mention this since the last phrase in John 1:1 (θεος ην ο λογος) contains no word in the accusative case - both are in the nominative case.
Please feel free to either start a new thread or move our conversation into a PM if it strays too far off the OP. (Ploughboy can get irritated at times.)
Rhema
Oh, and of course allow for the holidays etc. when I just don't have the time to post.
i put trust into few words of men. i put 100% trust into the words of my teachers. The teachings of Jesus back them. That is all that is needed.
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And just whom might these be?
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your teacher, and all ye are brethren.
(Matthew 23:8 RV)
(Please allow me to remain unimpressed...)
.
Rhema
I think you just ended it here:
And just whom might these be?
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your teacher, and all ye are brethren.(Matthew 23:8 RV)
(Please allow me to remain unimpressed...)
.
Rhema
I think you just ended it here:
they dont call themselves teachers. we call them the ones that take the lead. i just use that term. most are confused.
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Well... that's certainly confusing.
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And just whom might these be?
(And just who are those who call them that?)
.
Thanks,
Rhema
And just whom might these be?
(And just who are those who call them that?)
.
Thanks,
Rhema
All of us call them that. But to the world those that take the lead in a religion are referred to as teachers. And just like the bible shows God gave his word for free. they do not get paid.
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You're JW, then.
Well that explains a lot. (You could have just said so to begin with.)
If you don't use one of these (The Kingdom Interlinear Translation):
Download the Kingdom Interlinear Translation / Christian Apologetics
Instructions on how to download The Kingdom Interlinear Translation, useful in witnessing to Jehovah's Witnesses.
You should... starting NOW. (I've found that using a hard copy is better. And both links above are resources not endorsements.)
But do realize that capitalization is a purposeful lie and the definite article identifies the subject of the last clause.
Rhema
Yes, I said your "teachers" (or whatever) are lying to you.
You're JW, then.
Well that explains a lot. (You could have just said so to begin with.)
If you don't use one of these (The Kingdom Interlinear Translation):
Download the Kingdom Interlinear Translation / Christian Apologetics
Instructions on how to download The Kingdom Interlinear Translation, useful in witnessing to Jehovah's Witnesses.www.soundwitness.org
You should... starting NOW. (I've found that using a hard copy is better. And both links above are resources not endorsements.)
But do realize that capitalization is a purposeful lie and the definite article identifies the subject of the last clause.
Rhema
Yes, I said your "teachers" (or whatever) are lying to you.
You will find out different
You have the religion that came out of Romes translation--Their own translation exposes them as false. Proving Jesus was never with them So guess who was behind them? Their own encyclopedia says--The assimilation of a trinity into a christians life did not occur until near the end of the 4th century?( new catholic encyclopedia 1967-Volume XIV Pg 299) Why? because the God of Israel was being served prior to that-a single being God named-YHWH9)Jehovah)
The only translating left by the time any one else translated was the religion that came out of Romes translating-They wouldnt even allow mankind to read the bible until the 1500,s, it was kept in Latin until then. Once men could read it, saw their own translation exposed them as false and they ran, but could not make the corrections because of the errors translated in. Errors to fit false council teachings like a trinity god. No trinity was being taught at the first council of Nicea in 325. They made it up at another council. It does not exist. All serving it are being mislead into breaking Gods #1 commandment daily making that one a worker of iniquity and will hear these words from Jesus as judgement-Matthew 7:22-23--Get away from me, you who work iniquity, i must confess i never even knew you. Jaws are gonna drop.
Other errors--There is no - i am that i am in the Hebrew language. i will be what i will be is correct.
Truly i tell you, today you will be with me in paradise= error comma placement
Truly i tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise= correct.
Jesus was in Hades( grave) 3 days, he could not be in paradise the first day-- There are many errors.
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My link to the Kingdom Interlinear Translation is an OFFICIAL JW publication. And that's the translation I use when I speak with JWs - out of respect.
You have no standing to claim anything about my religion, or my translation. (Nor, it would seem, do you have any respect for others.)
As proven before, any translation using capital letters to provide interpretative information is a lie, and I include EVERY translation that does so.
Learn to speak the language before you go hurling names accusations and stupidity. That's what I did, and that's why I read the scriptures directly.
Rhema
Exactly what is proven of the JWs by their own Kingdom Interlinear Translation.
Please do try to actually study what is written. (And what I actually post.)
Again, for your own sake, use your own JW Kingdom Interlinear Translation when you read and study the scriptures.
You see? You have the same problem as all these other Christians, assuming that anything I said was Trinitarian in nature. Try again.
And do better this time.
(Hint... I am not Orthodox Trinitarian.)
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If you had a reasonable education in history, you would understand just how ludicrous that statement is.
For example, the Church of the East was started by the Apostle Thomas in the Persian Empire and had no corruption by Rome. (Did you know this? Now you do.)
Here is the text of the New Testament that has nothing to do with Rome or what you call "Romes translating"
TheAramaicScriptures.com
The Holy Aramaic Scriptures: With a literal English translation and transliteration of The Eastern Peshitta New Testament Text, such as given in The Khabouris Codex.
www.thearamaicscriptures.com
Enjoy.
Rhema
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Mr. Keithw ...
When Jerome published a more perfect Latin translation in 384AD (as compared to the numerous Old Latin texts - the Vetus Latina LINK) a translation that was revised into an accepted and complete New Testament by 410, Latin WAS the language that the common man could read and speak. Again, you make a claim that is unfounded.
Why do the JWs prohibit people from actually learning history?
Best you educate yourself. But then you know you'll be kicked out once you do. I've encountered this time and again.
Rhema
PS: And whether 325, 410 or the 1500's, where was your church?
If you had a reasonable education in history, you would understand just how ludicrous that statement is.
For example, the Church of the East was started by the Apostle Thomas in the Persian Empire and had no corruption by Rome. (Did you know this? Now you do.)
Here is the text of the New Testament that has nothing to do with Rome or what you call "Romes translating"
TheAramaicScriptures.com
The Holy Aramaic Scriptures: With a literal English translation and transliteration of The Eastern Peshitta New Testament Text, such as given in The Khabouris Codex.www.thearamaicscriptures.com
Enjoy.
Rhema
No trinity exists so it is corrupt.
Mr. Keithw ...
When Jerome published a more perfect Latin translation in 384AD (as compared to the numerous Old Latin texts - the Vetus Latina LINK) a translation that was revised into an accepted and complete New Testament by 410, Latin WAS the language that the common man could read and speak. Again, you make a claim that is unfounded.
Why do the JWs prohibit people from actually learning history?
Best you educate yourself. But then you know you'll be kicked out once you do. I've encountered this time and again.
Rhema
PS: And whether 325, 410 or the 1500's, where was your church?
The world murdered it along with Jesus, apostles and followers. It wasnt needed until these last days. There were enough guidelines to follow. They couldnt even do that right. All up until these last days, died and paid the wages of sin. Those who live to see Har-mageddon either have Jesus coverage and will never taste death or they will perish forever. Not many could read latin. The greeks spoke greek, the french spoke french-etc, Few had an education enough to speak latin.
I educated you on fact of history-the Israelite religion-NEVER served a trinity while serving the true God, No trinity was being served at the first council of Nicea-FACT. It was added later, made up. Its your knowledge that is lacking. The bible suggests--be like the Boreans and make sure of all things.
@Keithw
Greetings,
please be less hasty to be so sure.
please remember that Members here are welcome and none are superior to another.
Post in Peace
[or do not post at all]
Bless you ....><>
Jesus Christ is the Lord
Greetings,
please be less hasty to be so sure.
please remember that Members here are welcome and none are superior to another.
Post in Peace
[or do not post at all]
Bless you ....><>
Jesus Christ is the Lord
I have searched facts thouroughly, by being like the Boreans and made sure of all things. Yes Jesus is lord. The word LORD does not belong in the OT. Yhwh(Jehovah) was called sovereign lord in the OT. Men removed his name and replaced it with GOD or LORD all capitols. Every scholar on earth knows its fact. Its not what God wants. Its not his son wants either, Thus the followers do not want that either. Those in fear of what the bible really teaches wants that name left out.
What do you think? God inspired his name to be there because he wants it there.
I am not superior to others. i am just sharing facts.
The world hated truth when Jesus was here and so today as well.
