Backslidden and Apostasy

[lentz]

Is there a difference between backsliding and apostasy?
Can a person be brought back from apostasy?

 

[samahah]

Is there a difference between backsliding and apostasy?
Can a person be brought back from apostasy?

Apostasy has NOTHING to do with backsliding or Christianity.

It has been a matter of debate for centuries whether apostasy involves those who once followed God and fell away, or whether it's a general worldwide rebellion. It appears Paul may have had two things in mind.

Christians are taught that apostasy is a defection from truth. Christianity is the only World Religion that has the incorrect understanding of APOSTASY.

Other World Religions view apostasy as 'ABANDONING THEIR FORMER POLITICAL OR RELIGIOUS AFFILIATION AND ACCEPTING ANOTHER or as a revolt and a rebellion as well as a total abandonment of a previous affiliation.

This is the web definition of apostasy.
Apostasy - (noun)

1. The act of abandoning a party or cause.
2. The state of having rejected your religious beliefs, political party, cause or sports team in favor of opposing beliefs, causes or teams.
3. A defection, renunciation, disaffiliation, abandonment or revolt from a previous association.
4. (Islamic definition) Rejection in word or deed of one's former religion.
5. (Christian definition) To fall away from the truth.

Papyri documents that were written in the 3rd century and found during the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries are a group of manuscripts that used the word APOSTASY politically of rebels. (Vines)

It's a political or religious revolt just like what's taking place in riots and uprisings. It seems to have little to do with Christianity.

I've read and pondered verse 2Thes. 2 and believe it has NOTHING to do with Christians and the Church.

Verse 3 shows no indication this implies the Church. It shows the opposite.

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

From the word 'except' to the end of verse 12, the church IS NOT implied whatsoever. In fact the words "BUT WE" in verse 13 prove that Christians (the church) is not part of the apostasy. "The word 'but' is a conjunction that shows distinction and opposition to a previous statement. It opposes persons to persons or things previously mentioned or thought of. The distinction in this passage is between the Parousia and the followers of Christ as opposed to the man of sin and his followers.

Bible scholars like John MacArthur, David Jermiah, Hal Lindsey, and a host of others are an abomination to the Lord because they attribute this to the APOSTATE Church. There is no such thing as the apostate Church! They demonized God's Church and Christians have fallen for it because Christians believe these high-powered EXPERTS. They think they're the ones in the KNOW so they accept their teachings line, hook, and sinker.

"The secret power of lawlessness; the lawless one; whom the Lord Jesus will destroy; counterfeit signs, miracles, and wonders; every sort of evil that deceives those who "are perishing"; who refuse to love the truth and so be saved; and delight in wickedness; and God sends them powerful delusion so that they will believe a lie! "

Does the passage sound like the Church? Why would God send His own Christians powerful delusion? Attributing this to the end-time church is blasphemy and say's nothing good about the power of God's Holy Spirit whom He says He will pour out in the last days! Why would anybody want to convert to Christ knowing that the church teaches it goes bad, accepts and produces the man of sin, becomes an end-time harlot?

 

[lentz]

Apostasy has NOTHING to do with backsliding or Christianity.

It has been a matter of debate for centuries whether apostasy involves those who once followed God and fell away, or whether it's a general worldwide rebellion. It appears Paul may have had two things in mind.

Christians are taught that apostasy is a defection from truth. Christianity is the only World Religion that has the incorrect understanding of APOSTASY.

Other World Religions view apostasy as 'ABANDONING THEIR FORMER POLITICAL OR RELIGIOUS AFFILIATION AND ACCEPTING ANOTHER or as a revolt and a rebellion as well as a total abandonment of a previous affiliation.

This is the web definition of apostasy.
Apostasy - (noun)

1. The act of abandoning a party or cause.
2. The state of having rejected your religious beliefs, political party, cause or sports team in favor of opposing beliefs, causes or teams.
3. A defection, renunciation, disaffiliation, abandonment or revolt from a previous association.
4. (Islamic definition) Rejection in word or deed of one's former religion.
5. (Christian definition) To fall away from the truth.

Papyri documents that were written in the 3rd century and found during the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries are a group of manuscripts that used the word APOSTASY politically of rebels. (Vines)

It's a political or religious revolt just like what's taking place in riots and uprisings. It seems to have little to do with Christianity.

I've read and pondered verse 2Thes. 2 and believe it has NOTHING to do with Christians and the Church.

Verse 3 shows no indication this implies the Church. It shows the opposite.

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

From the word 'except' to the end of verse 12, the church IS NOT implied whatsoever. In fact the words "BUT WE" in verse 13 prove that Christians (the church) is not part of the apostasy. "The word 'but' is a conjunction that shows distinction and opposition to a previous statement. It opposes persons to persons or things previously mentioned or thought of. The distinction in this passage is between the Parousia and the followers of Christ as opposed to the man of sin and his followers.

Bible scholars like John MacArthur, David Jermiah, Hal Lindsey, and a host of others are an abomination to the Lord because they attribute this to the APOSTATE Church. There is no such thing as the apostate Church! They demonized God's Church and Christians have fallen for it because Christians believe these high-powered EXPERTS. They think they're the ones in the KNOW so they accept their teachings line, hook, and sinker.

"The secret power of lawlessness; the lawless one; whom the Lord Jesus will destroy; counterfeit signs, miracles, and wonders; every sort of evil that deceives those who "are perishing"; who refuse to love the truth and so be saved; and delight in wickedness; and God sends them powerful delusion so that they will believe a lie! "

Does the passage sound like the Church? Why would God send His own Christians powerful delusion? Attributing this to the end-time church is blasphemy and say's nothing good about the power of God's Holy Spirit whom He says He will pour out in the last days! Why would anybody want to convert to Christ knowing that the church teaches it goes bad, accepts and produces the man of sin, becomes an end-time harlot?

Thanks much. I will certainly look at it from that perspective.
However, I think the church will be gone already when those verses in Thess. take place. IMO

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Is there a difference between backsliding and apostasy?

Not really - it's just "Religious Word Games".

Can a person be brought back from apostasy?

Yes. Repentance is the solution. God sends "Wake-up calls" sometime pretty brutal ones to get our attention.

 

[lentz]

Not really - it's just "Religious Word Games".

Yes. Repentance is the solution. God sends "Wake-up calls" sometime pretty brutal ones to get our attention.

So do feel Judas could have been forgiven if he came to Christ and asked,With a repentive heart?

 

[Curtis]

If and when a true child of God wonders from the path, God corrects and disciplines them so that they repent and return back to the Lord. Those who are not true sons of God fall away to never to return. Godly sorrow always leads to repentance. Worldly sorrow leads to death.

2Co 7:10 For godly grief and the pain God is permitted to direct, produce a repentance that leads and contributes to salvation and deliverance from evil, and it never brings regret; but worldly grief (the hopeless sorrow that is characteristic of the pagan world) is deadly [breeding and ending in death]. (AMP)

 

[Garee]

Christians are taught that apostasy is a defection from truth. Christianity is the only World Religion that has the incorrect understanding of APOSTASY.

Not all Christians deny the faith of Christ's labor of love that works in them to both will and do his good pleasure .


Apostasy departing from the faith of Christ. as it is written . They went out from the true us because they were not of us to begin with .

 

[Bob Carabbio]

So do feel Judas could have been forgiven if he came to Christ and asked,With a repentive heart?

Of course!! BUT Judas wouldn't have come to Christ unless Father God DREW HIM (Jhn 6:44). I assume that HE didn't.

 

[lentz]

Of course!! BUT Judas wouldn't have come to Christ unless Father God DREW HIM (Jhn 6:44). I assume that HE didn't.

We don’t know. Maybe he did.
God draws everyone but only a few come.
Many are called but few are chosen you know.

 

[Curtis]

The condition of the organized church today is very similar to the Old Testament people of that time.

Eze 33:30 As for you, son of man, your people who talk of you by the walls and in the doors of the houses say one to another, every one to his brother, Come and hear what the word is that comes forth from the Lord.
Eze 33:31 And they come to you as people come, and they sit before you as My people, and they hear the words you say, but they will not do them; for with their mouths they show much love, but their hearts go after and are set on their [idolatrous greed for] gain.
Eze 33:32 Behold, you are to them as a very lovely [love] song of one who has a pleasant voice and can play well on an instrument, for they hear your words but do not do them. (AMP)

 

[Curtis]

Eze 33:32 Behold, you are to them as a very lovely [love] song of one who has a pleasant voice and can play well on an instrument,

Entertainment is the reason people go to church.