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Birth Pangs - has it began?

B-A-C

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Joined
Dec 18, 2008
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The seven seals are of course in Revelation 6. It's the first four that I'm interested in here.

Rev 6:1; Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, "Come."
Rev 6:2; I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.
Rev 6:3; When He broke the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, "Come."
Rev 6:4; And another, a red horse, went out; and to him who sat on it, it was granted to take peace from the earth, and that men would slay one another; and a great sword was given to him.
Rev 6:5; When He broke the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, "Come." I looked, and behold, a black horse; and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand.
Rev 6:6; And I heard something like a voice in the center of the four living creatures saying, "A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not damage the oil and the wine."
Rev 6:7; When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, "Come."
Rev 6:8; I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.

Matt 24:4; And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.
Matt 24:5; "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.
Matt 24:6; "
You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.
Matt 24:7; "For
nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.
Matt 24:8; "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.


Wars have always been happening. I think most of my life there have been wars somewhere. Korea in the 60's , Vietnam in the 70's, Falklands in the 80;s, Desert Storm in the 90's....
Of course now we have Ukraine and Russia. Most of these have been small wars, in small countries. Russia and China were barely involved in World War II.
But lately it seems the wars and rumors of wars are involving bigger players, with bigger stakes. It's only April and we've already had a larger number of tornado's, volcano's
and earthquakes than usual.

Rev 6:6; seems like it's happening also. Inflation is going crazy. Houses and cars have more than doubled in price in the last two decades. An average bag of groceries
is about $70.00 (US) the last few times I went to the store. I'm not talking about steak and caviar here, just regular average food ( whatever that is )

Inflation is averaging almost 4% a year in the last two decades. In ten years, that's almost 40%.


Rev 6:4; - has there ever been a time of less peace? I'm not just talking about war - peace. But general anxiety, unrest, rioting, general division.
At least in World War II, Americans and the UK were united as a people. Now we are about as divided as we can be.

Matt 24:10; "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
Matt 24:11; "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
Matt 24:12; "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.

If this doesn't describe much of the world today, I don't know what does. Between the social media, and the news, and political unrest, I don't think I've ever seen a time
were people "hate" each other. When I was younger, if you voted for someone else besides me, or a different way than me, we shook hands and said better luck next time.

Now if you vote different, think different or speak different, you're an idiot, a moron, people kill people simply because they have a different opinion.

2Tim 3:12; Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.
2Tim 3:13; But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
2Tim 3:14; You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
2Tim 3:15; and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2Tim 4:2; preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
2Tim 4:3; For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
2Tim 4:4; and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

Has there ever been a time in the history of the world that the Bible has been more maligned? Churches accepting gay clergy, transgender leaders, performing homosexual marriages.
These aren't just small fringe cases, these are entire denominations on a global scale.
 
2Thes 2:1; Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2Thes 2:2; that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. ( see 2Tim 2:18; )
2Thes 2:3; Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

The apostasy is happening today... prosperity gospel, antimonian gospel, the homosexual gospel, the non-trinity gospel, it's all around us, some of it is even here n TalkJesus,

2Thes 2:4; who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
2Thes 2:5; Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
2Thes 2:6; And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
2Thes 2:7; For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
2Thes 2:8; Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
2Thes 2:9; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
2Thes 2:10; and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

If the "love of the truth" is a requirement to be saved.... how many people are in trouble? How many "Christians" for that matter.

2Thes 2:11; For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
2Thes 2:12; in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Is there a scarier passage in the Bible? God Himself will eventually cause some people to continue believing a lie.

Rom 1:24; Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
Rom 1:26; For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:28; And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

When it reaches the point where God eventually just gives you over to your sin.... that's a scary place to be.
 

Birth Pangs - has it began?​


A short answer to your title question is YES!

And if nature tells us anything about birth pangs, they will become more frequent and more intense as the time of deliverance draws near.
 
Russia and China were barely involved in World War II.
What nonsense is this??
Russia defeated Nazi Germany at the cost of some 28 million lives to themselves.
China was occupied by the Japanese and suffered the most wicked levels of mass slaughter and racist oppression.
The Kuo Min Tang and the Communists put aside their differences and fought the Japanese directly.
 
What nonsense is this??
Russia defeated Nazi Germany at the cost of some 28 million lives to themselves.
China was occupied by the Japanese and suffered the most wicked levels of mass slaughter and racist oppression.

From a numbers perspective you are right.
Russia did fight in some bordering countries, but nothing far from home.
I think China did fight in India and Burma, but nothing far reaching.

The US on the other hand was in Africa, The Pacific and Europe all at the same time.
How many countries were Japan and Germany involved in?
 
How many countries were Japan and Germany involved in?
Japan was "in" the Korean Peninsula, China, Myanmar, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, the Pacific Islands, and even bombed Australia.
Nazi Germany was involved "in" North Africa and in all of Europe from Norway to Ukraine and Russia.
 
The U.S.A. was at that time a mighty industrial power and could manufacture war munitions, battleships, fighter planes and bombers, and supply soldiers and a navy.
But that time is over and the war in Ukraine has shown up how the industrial powerhouse of America is no longer available.
Now we live in a time when the hegemony of the U.S.A. is driving nations to form new alliances so as to develop a geo-political multipolar world.
That is to break away from the dominance of the U.S. dollar and financial institutions such as the IMF and World Bank.
The Global South is tired of the continuing racism and colonization that comes from Europe and the U.S.A.
Australia is experiencing the same "rebellion" here in our backyard - from the Pacific Islands who have suffered much under modern colonialist foreign policies that keep them subservient.

The World is changing fast and nations are aligning themselves with Russia and China seeking their own freedom to pursue their own cultures and social values - in response to the West exporting their
cultural liberalism and wickedness which most of the non-Western world finds obscene and abominable.
God is gathering the nations to make war against a wicked and depraved collective West that has abandoned the moral laws of God, abandoned the gospel of righteousness and also worships other gods.
Only now have other nations the military power of nuclear weapons to fulfill Bible prophecy of what is to come - this world will burn with fervent heat and the elements will melt.
Keep your eyes on what is happening in Israel and Jerusalem for here is where the end of everything shall take place.
 
The U.S.A. was at that time a mighty industrial power and could manufacture war munitions, battleships, fighter planes and bombers, and supply soldiers and a navy.
But that time is over and the war in Ukraine has shown up how the industrial powerhouse of America is no longer available.
Now we live in a time when the hegemony of the U.S.A. is driving nations to form new alliances so as to develop a geo-political multipolar world.
That is to break away from the dominance of the U.S. dollar and financial institutions such as the IMF and World Bank.
The Global South is tired of the continuing racism and colonization that comes from Europe and the U.S.A.
Australia is experiencing the same "rebellion" here in our backyard - from the Pacific Islands who have suffered much under modern colonialist foreign policies that keep them subservient.

The World is changing fast and nations are aligning themselves with Russia and China seeking their own freedom to pursue their own cultures and social values - in response to the West exporting their
cultural liberalism and wickedness which most of the non-Western world finds obscene and abominable.
God is gathering the nations to make war against a wicked and depraved collective West that has abandoned the moral laws of God, abandoned the gospel of righteousness and also worships other gods.
Only now have other nations the military power of nuclear weapons to fulfill Bible prophecy of what is to come - this world will burn with fervent heat and the elements will melt.
Keep your eyes on what is happening in Israel and Jerusalem for here is where the end of everything shall take place.
The Natives are getting restless and "The NEW DRUMS" is "The Internet" History has taught us "That A Great Revolution is on The Raise" "Martin Lither King Jr."said : " a man can only ride you when you back is bent over" But when he Stands UP you cannot ride Him".

All over The WORLD The 7 Continents. And the Natives are not Looking for "Missionaries" But if you feel like it, you can go and Hold up a Bible in the air if want too. If you do, and when you see the whites of their eyes, you will be like Apostle Paul "I am A ROMAN"!
 
God is gathering the nations to make war against a wicked and depraved collective West that has abandoned the moral laws of God, abandoned the gospel of righteousness and also worships other gods.
Only now have other nations the military power of nuclear weapons to fulfill Bible prophecy of what is to come - this world will burn with fervent heat and the elements will melt.
Keep your eyes on what is happening in Israel and Jerusalem for here is where the end of everything shall take place.
Last time I checked the WHOLE world lies in wickedness.

1 John 5:19
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

The only nation that is going to be left after all the dust settles is going to be God’s Israel.

Jeremiah 30:11
For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a fullend of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished
 
The only nation that is going to be left after all the dust settles is going to be God’s Israel.
No not according to scripture.
The modern nation of "Israel" that is the return of Judah [the southern kingdom] will suffer catastrophic destruction - why??
Because the modern Jews are still full of blasphemy and denial of YHWH who is the God of their salvation.
And while some Jews are converted to Christian faith [even Spirit-filled and speak in tongues] they still play games such as referring to themselves as Messianic Jews rather than as Christians.
Modern Israel is an abomination before our Lord and God - from the homosexual capital of Tel Aviv to the complete lack of love and equal rights to "strangers" that are in the land.
The constant murdering of Palestinian children and adults without any legal accountability by the IDF or guilt by Israel.
Modern Jews and their rabbis are very much like the Pharisees and Sadducees of old - all ceremony and outward showing of worshipping God, but inwardly a complete failure to live the Law of Moses righteously.
This has now morphed into a creation of an apartheid Jewish State to be reserved only for the Jews and has military policies on the destruction and displacement of Christian and Islamic Palestinian people from
the nation of Israel.
Keep your eye on the ultra-nationalistic racist government put together by Netanyahu. They will be the cause of the nations coming together as a confederation upon Judah and Jerusalem.

Zechariah 12:1 The oracle of the word of the LORD concerning Israel: Thus declares the LORD, who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him:
2 “Behold, I am about to make Jerusalem a cup of staggering to all the surrounding peoples. The siege of Jerusalem will also be against Judah.
3 On that day I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples. All who lift it will surely hurt themselves. And all the nations of the earth will gather against it.

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, a day is coming for the LORD, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile,
but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle.

Jerusalem and Judah will yet again suffer destruction like 70AD but this time there will be a salvation only by the intervention of Jesus himself to save a remnant of both the Jews and all humankind.
Only then will God pour out his Holy Spirit upon the surviving Jews for them to experience Pentecost and to understand finally that the one they have mocked and blasphemed for centuries truly is
their long awaited Messiah who will restore all of Israel - Ephraim and Judah will again become one stick.

Acts 1:6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.

Zechariah 12:10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced,
they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.
 
No not according to scripture.
The modern nation of "Israel" that is the return of Judah [the southern kingdom] will suffer catastrophic destruction - why??
Because the modern Jews are still full of blasphemy and denial of YHWH who is the God of their salvation.
And while some Jews are converted to Christian faith [even Spirit-filled and speak in tongues] they still play games such as referring to themselves as Messianic Jews rather than as Christians.
Modern Israel is an abomination before our Lord and God - from the homosexual capital of Tel Aviv to the complete lack of love and equal rights to "strangers" that are in the land.
The constant murdering of Palestinian children and adults without any legal accountability by the IDF or guilt by Israel.
Modern Jews and their rabbis are very much like the Pharisees and Sadducees of old - all ceremony and outward showing of worshipping God, but inwardly a complete failure to live the Law of Moses righteously.
This has now morphed into a creation of an apartheid Jewish State to be reserved only for the Jews and has military policies on the destruction and displacement of Christian and Islamic Palestinian people from
the nation of Israel.
Keep your eye on the ultra-nationalistic racist government put together by Netanyahu. They will be the cause of the nations coming together as a confederation upon Judah and Jerusalem.

Zechariah 12:1 The oracle of the word of the LORD concerning Israel: Thus declares the LORD, who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him:
2 “Behold, I am about to make Jerusalem a cup of staggering to all the surrounding peoples. The siege of Jerusalem will also be against Judah.
3 On that day I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples. All who lift it will surely hurt themselves. And all the nations of the earth will gather against it.

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, a day is coming for the LORD, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile,
but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle.

Jerusalem and Judah will yet again suffer destruction like 70AD but this time there will be a salvation only by the intervention of Jesus himself to save a remnant of both the Jews and all humankind.
Only then will God pour out his Holy Spirit upon the surviving Jews for them to experience Pentecost and to understand finally that the one they have mocked and blasphemed for centuries truly is
their long awaited Messiah who will restore all of Israel - Ephraim and Judah will again become one stick.

Acts 1:6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.

Zechariah 12:10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced,
they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.
I said God’s Israel. When the True comes the false shall be done away with. If you do not belong to God’s Israel and heavenly Jerusalem, you do not belong to God’s Kingdom.
 
If you do not belong to God’s Israel and heavenly Jerusalem, you do not belong to God’s Kingdom.
No you actually wrote - "The only nation that is going to be left after all the dust settles is going to be God’s Israel"
The kingdom of God - the Spirit-filled ekklesia - is not a nation. It is the gentiles; the nations; whose origins come from the lost 10 tribes of Israel dispersed into the nations.
That is why salvation could come to the nations and we non-Jews could enter into a new and living covenant with God.
That may well be for today, but that is not what Armageddon is about.
Armageddon is about the final salvation of a remnant of Judah and the Jews who will call out on the name of Yeshua when their F35 jet fighters and the IDF have totally failed.
Ezekiel 37:16 “Son of man, take a stick and write on it, ‘For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.’
17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand.
Ezekiel 37:21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land.
22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms.

The restoration of the Kingdom of Israel and David the Prince shall rule. And a new Temple shall be built for Jesus to rule the nations and the government shall be upon him.
 
No you actually wrote - "The only nation that is going to be left after all the dust settles is going to be God’s Israel"
Right, and I gave you God’s words where He said….
Jeremiah 30:11
For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a fullend of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished”

Need more proof…

Daniel 2:35
Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

The kingdom of God - the Spirit-filled ekklesia - is not a nation. It is the gentiles; the nations;
Wrong, Gentiles are the uncircumcised in Spirit. When a Gentile is born again and circumcised by the Holy Spirit they are made a fellow citizen of Israel.
We read….

Ephesians 2:11-13

King James Version

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

whose origins come from the lost 10 tribes of Israel dispersed into the nations
The scattered 10 tribes are not Gentiles, they are flesh and blood Jews.
.
That is why salvation could come to the nations and we non-Jews could enter into a new and living covenant with God.
Like I showed above, if you are circumcised by the Holy Spirit then you are no longer a Gentile, but a Jew inwardly as Paul said. If you are not a Jew inwardly by the Spirit, then you are not saved.

Per the words of Jesus…

John 4:22
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

That may well be for today, but that is not what Armageddon is about.

Armageddon is about the final salvation of a remnant of Judah and the Jews who will call out on the name of Yeshua when their F35 jet fighters and the IDF have totally failed.
Armageddon is about God judging the nations that are gathered together against Israel and destroying them.

Zephaniah 3:8-9

King James Version

8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the Lord, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.
9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.”

Zechariah 12:8-10

King James Version

8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.”


 
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