Can a Christian lose his/her Salvation or do they have Eternal Security?

[Victor VanHeerden]

As an friendly ex Christian i would like to introduce this debate topic.

Please for clarity sake lets assume that we are discussing Christians as per NT Bible definitions and not nominal or cultural Christians.

1. John 3: 3 “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
   
2. 1. John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
   

---

To state that a Christian has eternal security and cannot lose his salvation would imply that:

1. All ex Christians were never Christians in the first place.
2. they are still Christians.

Any agree or disagree?

 

[Waggles]

This has been debated with much heat and doggedness on all Christian site forums ad nauseum
currently many of us are engaged in the debate right now

Non-OSAS belief - undermines the cross

Hi all This thread is an offshoot of the 'false teaching 'thread here False teaching, to discuss this specific topic. 2. Non OSAS belief - undermines cross OSAS = Once saved always saved. Many espouse we can lose our salvation. Whilst I agree it is important to daily examine ourselves and...

www.talkjesus.com

 

[Waggles]

1. All ex Christians were never Christians in the first place.
2. they are still Christians.

Any agree or disagree?

In a nutshell
1: no - it is more a matter of losing faithfulness and extinguishing the work of the Holy Spirit > thus discipleship falls away and the power of sin returns
2: lapsed Christians still have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them [as God is ever faithful and will not leave us even when some fall away] but as Paul warned in Thessalonians "Extinguish not the Spirit"
I would argue that when discipleship fails then one's testimony also fails and such a person is no long salt with flavour nor a light to others.
But there is always hope for repentance and contrition [I know from personal experience] that a fallen disciple can come back to righteousness - though this is difficult.

Luke 15:12 And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the share of property that is coming to me.’ And he divided his property between them.
13 Not many days later, the younger son gathered all he had and took a journey into a far country, and there he squandered his property in reckless living.
14 And when he had spent everything, a severe famine arose in that country, and he began to be in need.
15 So he went and hired himself out to one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to feed pigs.
16 And he was longing to be fed with the pods that the pigs ate, and no one gave him anything.
17 “But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father's hired servants have more than enough bread, but I perish here with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you.
19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Treat me as one of your hired servants.”’
20 And he arose, and came unto his own father. But while he was yet afar off, his father saw him, and pitied him, and ran, and fell upon his neck, and kissed him much.
21 And the son said to him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight: I am no more worthy to be called thy son, make me as one of thy hired servants.
22 But the father said to his bondmen, Bring forth quickly the best robe, and put it on him; and put a finger-ring into his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 and bring the fatted calf, kill it, and let us eat, and make merry:
24 for this my son was dead, and is revived; was lost, and is found. And they began to make merry.

As an ex-Christian this message of hope is for you.
Repent. Come back to your Father and to Jesus your Saviour.

 

[PloughBoy]

As an friendly ex Christian i would like to introduce this debate topic.

Please for clarity sake lets assume that we are discussing Christians as per NT Bible definitions and not nominal or cultural Christians.

1. John 3: 3 “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
   
2. 1. John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

---

To state that a Christian has eternal security and cannot lose his salvation would imply that:

1. All ex Christians were never Christians in the first place.
2. they are still Christians.

Any agree or disagree?

1 st. may you state what a christian is, and what definition you are using today in this century, For clarity, and The source of that Information and the authority it derive from. For reference. in the debate.

I would prefer you use what God The Father and The Son of GOD. in relating to A "Child of GOD" for Jesus nor his Father ever used The Word "Christian". If that what you mean being a Christian is. Do you mean, it means you are a "Child of The LIVING GOD" Born in HEAVEN" Had a heavenly Birth and became A "New CREATURE" and not like the creature that came from your Mother's womb?

So a "Child of GOD' is what, and If He Is Not. For there is nothing in Between. Unless we have enter the "generations" of The in Between "The Males and the Females" For I do believe that "Christians {Christianity] have Genders among its ranks Too, it seems.

For a honest debate, I think we should have the Debate either you are a "Child of GOD' or you are a "Child of the devil".

Would you be satisfied in between those ropes?

You see when you are a christian you can switch sides. But when you are a "Child of God" you can't switch. You might have a switch in your walk, but you cannot switch sides. [ Do you remember when women use to walk and switch from side to side} They don't do that no more, they walk like men. now.

In the world, when you want to switch from a boy to a girl or Girl to a boy, you can. And what ever else you can find in between those 2. I am too old, i don't know what they are. The men be looking better than the women in those Skirts. And a lot nicer too. Y'all men know I am telling the truth.

But A child of GOD, cannot switch, it is impossible. it cannot be done. I do not care how much he or she puts on makeup or what kind of Clothes they put on. The Child of GOD remains a "Child of The LIVING" and Heavenly bound and from there into "ETERNAL LIFE".

But a christian can have their own way.

Would that be okay? "either you are a A "child of the devil "or A "Child of GOD" debate, You are a Bad seed or a Good seed.
Would that be faith?

You open those can of worms up.

I think, we can have some fun. if you agree. And don't grow any "red horns" and start puffing smoke. and us, using common ordinary horse sense.

welcome to the club.

PloughBoy

 

[Hekuran]

As an friendly ex Christian i would like to introduce this debate topic.

Please for clarity sake lets assume that we are discussing Christians as per NT Bible definitions and not nominal or cultural Christians.

1. John 3: 3 “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
   
2. 1. John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
   

---

To state that a Christian has eternal security and cannot lose his salvation would imply that:

1. All ex Christians were never Christians in the first place.
2. they are still Christians.

Any agree or disagree?

Yes, that's sound logic.

Though I'm curious why as an ex-christian you're interested to discuss this.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Can salvation be lost? Oh ye of little faith!

 

[Victor VanHeerden]

Yes, that's sound logic.

Though I'm curious why as an ex-christian you're interested to discuss this.

There are lots of Christians that view ex Christians in a negative light. As if ex Christians were never true ones. I know it is a defense mechanism. But I think if Christians realised that they do not have Eternal Security they might guard faith more carefully. Losing faith is not for the weak.

 

[Victor VanHeerden]

A biological child can divorce his parents. So why not a spiritual one?

1 st. may you state what a christian is, and what definition you are using today in this century, For clarity, and The source of that Information and the authority it derive from. For reference. in the debate.

I would prefer you use what God The Father and The Son of GOD. in relating to A "Child of GOD" for Jesus nor his Father ever used The Word "Christian". If that what you mean being a Christian is. Do you mean, it means you are a "Child of The LIVING GOD" Born in HEAVEN" Had a heavenly Birth and became A "New CREATURE" and not like the creature that came from your Mother's womb?

So a "Child of GOD' is what, and If He Is Not. For there is nothing in Between. Unless we have enter the "generations" of The in Between "The Males and the Females" For I do believe that "Christians {Christianity] have Genders among its ranks Too, it seems.

For a honest debate, I think we should have the Debate either you are a "Child of GOD' or you are a "Child of the devil".

Would you be satisfied in between those ropes?

You see when you are a christian you can switch sides. But when you are a "Child of God" you can't switch. You might have a switch in your walk, but you cannot switch sides. [ Do you remember when women use to walk and switch from side to side} They don't do that no more, they walk like men. now.

In the world, when you want to switch from a boy to a girl or Girl to a boy, you can. And what ever else you can find in between those 2. I am too old, i don't know what they are. The men be looking better than the women in those Skirts. And a lot nicer too. Y'all men know I am telling the truth.

But A child of GOD, cannot switch, it is impossible. it cannot be done. I do not care how much he or she puts on makeup or what kind of Clothes they put on. The Child of GOD remains a "Child of The LIVING" and Heavenly bound and from there into "ETERNAL LIFE".

But a christian can have their own way.

Would that be okay? "either you are a A "child of the devil "or A "Child of GOD" debate, You are a Bad seed or a Good seed.
Would that be faith?

You open those can of worms up.

I think, we can have some fun. if you agree. And don't grow any "red horns" and start puffing smoke. and us, using common ordinary horse sense.

welcome to the club.

PloughBoy

 

[Victor VanHeerden]

This has been debated with much heat and doggedness on all Christian site forums ad nauseum
currently many of us are engaged in the debate right now

Non-OSAS belief - undermines the cross

Hi all This thread is an offshoot of the 'false teaching 'thread here False teaching, to discuss this specific topic. 2. Non OSAS belief - undermines cross OSAS = Once saved always saved. Many espouse we can lose our salvation. Whilst I agree it is important to daily examine ourselves and...

www.talkjesus.com

Well it is rather pertinent. Ex Christians also discuss it. Why? Because they are on the outside looking in. If OSAS was valid there would be no ex,s. And it can be proven from scripture that it is false teaching. Thousands of ex Christians were once Pastors.

 

[KingJ]

There are lots of Christians that view ex Christians in a negative light. As if ex Christians were never true ones. I know it is a defense mechanism. But I think if Christians realised that they do not have Eternal Security they might guard faith more carefully. Losing faith is not for the weak.

The problem is that Christians do not know what it takes to become 'a Christian'.

There are many who 'taste' Christianity Heb 6:4, put their foot in church, go through the motions, get the t-shirt. But Jesus is crystal clear to those who continue in evil and yet 'partake' in Christianity in Matt 7:21-23 ''depart from me evildoers, I never knew you''. Or as Paul says in 1 Cor 5:11, they are ''brethren so called''.

Only when we properly understand the two points below, does OSAS (once saved always saved) make sense.

1. Depth of intent required to be a Christian is on par with martyrdom.

I explain what it takes to become a Christian here What is a Christian and how do you become one?.

2. God is not a human that makes mistakes / changes His mind Num 23:19.

IE He does not make the 'mistake' of grafting a demon into heaven. He does not make a new creation 2 Cor 5:17 of anyone who fails His judgement of heart and mind Jer 17:9-11.

Believing a true Christian can lose their salvation.... is on par with reviving a martyr from death, letting them fall into some sin and then sending them to hell for all eternity. Hilarious. This implies God would pervert justice. God does not pervert justice Job 34:12.

________________________________

It is very possible that many today believe they are not saved. Atheism and media at large have 'brainwashed' many not properly founded in their faith. Fortunately for them, God looks at our hearts.

1 Sam 16:7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.
Matt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
Pro 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the heart.

I could quote 100 more scriptures on this, but I think you see the point made from these three.

 

[KingJ]

A biological child can divorce his parents. So why not a spiritual one?

They can go through the 'motions' of 'divorcing', but they will never not be a child of their parents if they have their 'blood'.

A Christian is in a blood covenant with God.

Luke 22:20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood''.
Mark 14:24 And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many''.
Matt 6:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

 

[KingJ]

As an friendly ex Christian i would like to introduce this debate topic.

Please for clarity sake lets assume that we are discussing Christians as per NT Bible definitions and not nominal or cultural Christians.

1. John 3: 3 “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
2. 1. John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

---

To state that a Christian has eternal security and cannot lose his salvation would imply that:

1. All ex Christians were never Christians in the first place.
2. they are still Christians.

Any agree or disagree?

I would add a point 3. Christians can be deceived.

Some people today believe they are animals Community of people who believe they are animals.
Some people today believe men are woman and woman are men.
Some people today believe the earth is flat.

We must not be ignorant of how easy it is to brainwash people.

We can only hope that sanity sets in with time.

 

[Victor VanHeerden]

The problem is that Christians do not know what it takes to become 'a Christian'.

There are many who 'taste' Christianity Heb 6:4, put their foot in church, go through the motions, get the t-shirt. But Jesus is crystal clear to those who continue in evil and yet 'partake' in Christianity in Matt 7:21-23 ''depart from me evildoers, I never knew you''. Or as Paul says in 1 Cor 5:11, they are ''brethren so called''.

Only when we properly understand the two points below, does OSAS (once saved always saved) make sense.

1. Depth of intent required to be a Christian is on par with martyrdom.

I explain what it takes to become a Christian here What is a Christian and how do you become one?.

2. God is not a human that makes mistakes / changes His mind Num 23:19.

IE He does not make the 'mistake' of grafting a demon into heaven. He does not make a new creation 2 Cor 5:17 of anyone who fails His judgement of heart and mind Jer 17:9-11.

Believing a true Christian can lose their salvation.... is on par with reviving a martyr from death, letting them fall into some sin and then sending them to hell for all eternity. Hilarious. This implies God would pervert justice. God does not pervert justice Job 34:12.

________________________________

It is very possible that many today believe they are not saved. Atheism and media at large have 'brainwashed' many not properly founded in their faith. Fortunately for them, God looks at our hearts.

1 Sam 16:7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.
Matt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
Pro 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the heart.

I could quote 100 more scriptures on this, but I think you see the point made from these t

The problem is that Christians do not know what it takes to become 'a Christian'.

There are many who 'taste' Christianity Heb 6:4, put their foot in church, go through the motions, get the t-shirt. But Jesus is crystal clear to those who continue in evil and yet 'partake' in Christianity in Matt 7:21-23 ''depart from me evildoers, I never knew you''. Or as Paul says in 1 Cor 5:11, they are ''brethren so called''.

Only when we properly understand the two points below, does OSAS (once saved always saved) make sense.

1. Depth of intent required to be a Christian is on par with martyrdom.

I explain what it takes to become a Christian here What is a Christian and how do you become one?.

2. God is not a human that makes mistakes / changes His mind Num 23:19.

IE He does not make the 'mistake' of grafting a demon into heaven. He does not make a new creation 2 Cor 5:17 of anyone who fails His judgement of heart and mind Jer 17:9-11.

Believing a true Christian can lose their salvation.... is on par with reviving a martyr from death, letting them fall into some sin and then sending them to hell for all eternity. Hilarious. This implies God would pervert justice. God does not pervert justice Job 34:12.

________________________________

It is very possible that many today believe they are not saved. Atheism and media at large have 'brainwashed' many not properly founded in their faith. Fortunately for them, God looks at our hearts.

1 Sam 16:7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.
Matt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
Pro 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the heart.

I could quote 100 more scriptures on this, but I think you see the point made from these three.

The call to salvation begins with God. He initiates it by wooing or drawing us to come to him.

John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. ..."

Revelation 3:20
"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in. "

Salvation is an mutual contract. I either receive it or i reject it. I let Jesus come in or do not.

Romans 3:23
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

It is impossible for us to find peace with God through our own efforts. Salvation, then, is a gift from God. He offers the gift through Jesus, his Son. By laying down his life on the cross, Christ took our place and paid the ultimate price, the penalty for our sin: death. Jesus is our only way to God.

John 14:6
"Jesus told him, 'I am the way, the truth and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.'"

I either receive that truth it or i reject it.

Acts 3:19 says: "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out...."

I either repent or i don't.

Salvation is not a reward for faith; it is a gift that no one deserves, but it can ONLY be received by faith.

When faith is gone so is your salvation. The two are mutually inclusive.

Rom 10:9 " That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt

---

in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

How faith is lost is another discussion.

 

[complete]

There are lots of Christians that view ex Christians in a negative light. As if ex Christians were never true ones. I know it is a defense mechanism. But I think if Christians realised that they do not have Eternal Security they might guard faith more carefully. Losing faith is not for the weak.

Hello @Victor VanHeerden:

May I ask you what you lost faith in?

- Was it the fact of God's very existence?
- Was it that you could no longer acknowledge that the Lord Jesus Christ is 'The Christ' (Messiah) - the Son of God?
- Was it that you failed to believe that the Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead?

Would you please share what form of, 'disbelief,' turned you from a, 'Believer in the Lord Jesus Christ', into, 'a Disbeliever' ?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Victor VanHeerden]

Hello @Victor VanHeerden:

May I ask you what you lost faith in?

- Was it the fact of God's very existence?
- Was it that you could no longer acknowledge that the Lord Jesus Christ is 'The Christ' (Messiah) - the Son of God?
- Was it that you failed to believe that the Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead?

Would you please share what form of, 'disbelief,' turned you from a, 'Believer in the Lord Jesus Christ', into, 'a Disbeliever' ?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yep. I don't want to stumble weak Christians. So please beware. As a lay preacher I was one Sunday night giving a Gospel sermon. When I mentioned that only born again believers who have become New Creatures in Christ can enter Heaven. Unbelievers can't and their lot is eternal torment in hell. It struck me as I said that that very few will go to heaven and many more will go to hell. Why? When hell is such a terrible place did a God of love create it. I know it was created for the Devil and fallen angels. Nevertheless humans will also end up there. Why would a God of Love do that? From there my faith began to unravel like a ball of string. I won't go any further into my deconversion. It is not a pleasant experience to lose your faith. But it is what it is. Thank you.

 

[Hekuran]

Yep. I don't want to stumble weak Christians. So please beware. As a lay preacher I was one Sunday night giving a Gospel sermon. When I mentioned that only born again believers who have become New Creatures in Christ can enter Heaven. Unbelievers can't and their lot is eternal torment in hell. It struck me as I said that that very few will go to heaven and many more will go to hell. Why? When hell is such a terrible place did a God of love create it. I know it was created for the Devil and fallen angels. Nevertheless humans will also end up there. Why would a God of Love do that? From there my faith began to unravel like a ball of string. I won't go any further into my deconversion. It is not a pleasant experience to lose your faith. But it is what it is. Thank you.

Thanks for sharing this with us @Victor VanHeerden. I can imagine how losing faith is a very painful experience -- especially if you have invested everything in following Jesus for a long time.

Do you still appreciate people praying for you?

 

[PloughBoy]

A biological child can divorce his parents. So why not a spiritual one?

I don't care what he does, he can be a man, and have a operation to make him look like a woman and walk like a women and smell like one and kiss like one, He still cannot change the DNA, of who his Biological parents are, No matter how much paint he puts on his face. DNA do not lie. And Judgment day will not either. And the Parents will still say, that is our son and no matter what the Paper works say, that is our son. We Made Love, and we had him. me and his daddy. because we where there. So, we do not care what he says, matter of fact we know him, he might say anything.!.

Romans 3 KJV
"For what if some did not believe[in the TRUTHS of GOD]? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged."

And Now, what is the creature? When he is compared to "GOD"?

I am PloughBoy, and i am carrying The Mail

Once A Child, "Born of GOD" always A Child of GOD of The LIVING GOD. And there is No Condemnation to those who are In CHRIST. for their Father is ABLE , to Complete, what He has Started.

It is Not MT. SINAI you have come too, But You have come to, "Mount ZION!"

Do you feel me!

HEBREWS 12
New American Bible
and the assembly of the firstborn enrolled in heaven, and God the judge of all, and the spirits of the just made perfect,

NET Bible
and congregation of the firstborn, who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous, who have been made perfect,

New Revised Standard Version
and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

New Heart English Bible
to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of righteous people made perfect,

An Unshakable Kingdom
…"Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels in joyful assembly, to the congregation of the firstborn, enrolled in heaven. You have come to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.…"

PS. Victor VanHeerden,
You Haven't Been Around, Long Enough, Beneath The Feet Of Jesus Long Enough, To Understand The Children Of The Devil And The Children Who Are God's. As if, the clay CAN understand the Potter. A piece of created dirt, have more knowledge than A being who we call "GOD' for we are not even able to take upon our lips to know HIS name. And for this too is one of the reasons, if it was not for Mercy and GRACE, Where would we be heading for "ARROGANCE' and The AUDACITY" to even think we know what this is all about. And Judge Him. How Dare We Could Even Think Of Such Thoughts.
Those Thoughts Alone, Have Condemn "Billions" Into Eternal Relentless Destruction Without Relief. We Are Not Speaking Of Popes, Presidents, Kings Or Queens But "Holiness Of God" People Are Liars When They Say They Have Read The Book< Liars They Are When They View God In Such Cruel Capacities, Liars They Are And The Truth Is Not In Them!

It is so TRUE when the BOOK has proclaim he has Blinded their Eyes so they cannot see or understand Him, Because if he did, they might get saved. And GOD does not want them to be saved! So He have sent them "STRONG DELUSIONS So they Might Believe LIES" And have become "Blind", just like the men who "Search For The Door Knob at Lot's House." and could not get in.

Isaiah 6:10
Make the hearts of this people calloused; deafen their ears and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."

King James Bible
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Sorry my friend he has turn the light off. And you cannot see what lies in "The DARK".

 

[Waggles]

Yep. I don't want to stumble weak Christians. So please beware. As a lay preacher I was one Sunday night giving a Gospel sermon. When I mentioned that only born again believers who have become New Creatures in Christ can enter Heaven. Unbelievers can't and their lot is eternal torment in hell. It struck me as I said that that very few will go to heaven and many more will go to hell. Why? When hell is such a terrible place did a God of love create it. I know it was created for the Devil and fallen angels. Nevertheless humans will also end up there. Why would a God of Love do that? From there my faith began to unravel like a ball of string. I won't go any further into my deconversion. It is not a pleasant experience to lose your faith. But it is what it is. Thank you.

Seems to me that you were undone by investing in faulty doctrines ...
First Pentecostal Christians do not go to Heaven [actually nobody does] - when Christ Jesus returns he will gather his elect and bring them with them into what is left of Jerusalem to assist him establish his rule and government
upon the Earth.
The dead in Christ and we who are left alive will be transformed in the twinkling of an eye and rise up to be with Jesus when he comes in power and glory - the faithful shall enter the eternities with new bodies.
Souls are not tormented forever in Hell, but in the second resurrection and the judgement of all remaining souls before Jesus those whose names are not written in the books of life will be cast out into a lake of fire.
A God of love will judge with righteousness and wisdom all remaining humans knowing what destruction spiritually satan and his hordes have done upon humankind since the beginning.
For the greater part of humanity have only ever suffered poverty, oppression, war, disease, false religion ...

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat thereon, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and booklets were opened: and another booklet was opened, which is that of life: and the dead were judged out of the things written in the booklets, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead in them: and they were judged each according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

Notice that these verses teach us that not everybody are thrown into the lake of fire.
These verses teach us that in this judgement yes people do have their names written in the books of life - otherwise there would be no need for such a judgement and opening of the books.
Take heart my friend that God is a God of love and righteousness and knows that millions upon millions of people suffered much at the hands of demons and their false religions.

 

[PloughBoy]

Mark 4 KJV
"And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? The sower soweth the word. And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful."

These things happens and they will happen. For only, a few will Grow. there will be many who will not continue. For many will fall by The wayside all along, even "The Narrow PATH" there will be many, who will turn back. and they will try to Persuade others in a soft way. "bad company Corrupts [GODLY] ways"


King James Bible
6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you."

Our GOD;
His feelings are not change, He is "Immutable". and Jesus is the Only Way out. The Only HOPE we have and that "HOPE" is running out.







If "GOD"is GOD, then serve him. It is either the one or the other.

 

[complete]

Yep. I don't want to stumble weak Christians. So please beware. As a lay preacher I was one Sunday night giving a Gospel sermon. When I mentioned that only born again believers who have become New Creatures in Christ can enter Heaven. Unbelievers can't and their lot is eternal torment in hell. It struck me as I said that that very few will go to heaven and many more will go to hell. Why? When hell is such a terrible place did a God of love create it. I know it was created for the Devil and fallen angels. Nevertheless humans will also end up there. Why would a God of Love do that? From there my faith began to unravel like a ball of string. I won't go any further into my deconversion. It is not a pleasant experience to lose your faith. But it is what it is. Thank you.

Hello @Victor VanHeerden,

Thank you very much for sharing. You have given us your side of the story, but God sees another side. For you are His workmanship, and the work that He has begun in you He will continue to do until the day of Christ.

I pray to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, that He will shine the light of His truth upon you, through His engrafted Word: and heal the wounds which error has compounded: and restore you to Himself. For He loves you dearly.

In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,
Now risen and glorified,
and sat at God's right hand.
Amen