Christian Acid Test to be applied to all doctrines

[KingJ]

This thread is motivated by @Charlie24's post here A Simple Question.

Honest question to go along with the OP question.

It's said there are over 50 Major Doctrines found in Scripture.

Do you believe there are 2 people on this earth that totally agree in detail on those doctrines?

This is true and very sad. I would argue that high level, the vast majority of disagreements can be removed just by applying a Christian 101 acid test to them!

---------------------------------

Acid test = A doctrine is false if it can be proven that it undermines 1. The cross and or 2. God's nature as defined in scripture.

Cross - God became flesh Isa 9:6 and lay His life down for all mankind John 3:16. Raised on the third day 1 Cor 15:3-4.
God's nature - A. Pure love 1 John 4:7-8, B Righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17 C. Light with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5. D. Impartial Acts 10:34. E. Good Psalm 136:1 and lastly, F. Just! Job 34:12.

---------------------------------

If these two FACTS are not ticked when you teach your doctrine from the pulpit. You ARE a false teacher that needs to be TERRIFIED of a one-on-one judgement day with God of the universe!

Applying this acid test exposes cherry picked half-truths. Which is what most conflicting doctrines are as shown to us by the devil in the wilderness. God is not a God of confusion! 1 Cor 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.

From now on, any doctrine that is argued, I will place here and apply this acid test to it to see if it is a doctrine of demons or from God.

We HAVE to be able to tie our 'personal' doctrines back to these two tick blocks! Else it is a doctrine of demons that does absolutely no good for the kingdom of God!

Let's not be A. Self-indulgent or B. Narcissistic teachers. These I believe are the two common brackets false teachers fall into.

Self-indulgent - Teaching for self-gain. Characterized by doing or tending to do exactly what one wants.
Narcissistic - Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental health condition in which people have an unreasonably high sense of their own importance. They need and seek too much attention and want people to admire them.

 

[KingJ]

If two differing doctrines both survive the acid test, than the disagreement will be a minor Rom 14:5 type immaterial difference of interpretation.

 

[KingJ]

@Dylan569 I have brought the OP of this thread TULIP from the 2021 NRSV Updated Edition here for a discussion.

I wish to discuss a topic separate from support for your TULIP theology. Namely, how said theology incriminates and misrepresents God. As per my OP.

Total Depravity being Total Inability

"as it is written: 'There is no one who is righteous, not even one; there is no one who has understanding; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; there is no one who shows kindness; there is not even one.'” Rom 3:10-12 NRSVue

"You were dead through the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among those who are disobedient. All of us once lived among them in the passions of our flesh, doing the will of flesh and senses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like everyone else," Eph 2:1-3 NRSVue

"The heart is devious above all else; it is perverse— who can understand it?" Jer 17:9 NRSVue

I disagree with our inability to seek God. But this does not need to be discussed here as this specific theory in isolation, does not incriminate God. There is truth to God needing to show us some light before we follow and desire the light.

Unconditional Election
"who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works but according to his own purpose and grace, and this grace was given to us in Christ Jesus before the ages began," 2Ti 1:9 NRSVue

This belief incriminates God as partial and unjust!

Partial = The Creator of all has created some for election.
Unjust = Nothing anyone can do to be one of the elected.

Please explain to me how this belief does not incriminate God!

Please avoid dancing around the question. To help you focus, answer as if you just found out that you were not one of those chosen for election.

Note the following:

High level, this is a grouping of two concepts. Concept 1. Salvation, Concept 2. Qualifying for salvation. You remove scripture that speaks to concept 2 and push a half truth. Suggesting that a person does not need to do anything but hope they are chosen. Scripture is crystal clear on concept 2. Rev 3:20 says Jesus knocks on the door to our heart waiting for US TO OPEN it. Psalm 51:17 is crystal clear that whoever HAS A CONTRITE and broken heart and spirit will not be despised by God. James 1:27 makes it crystal clear that religion undefiled before God is HELPING ORPHANS AND WIDOWS in need. I bold the words that are 'action' words. Actions we need to perform before election of any sort can take place.

 

[KingJ]

Limited Atonement, being a Particular Redemption and Definite Atonement
"They sing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to break its seals, for you were slaughtered and by your blood you ransomed for God saints from every tribe and language and people and nation;" Rev 5:9 NRSVue

"It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins; these follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been redeemed from humankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb" Rev 14:4 NRSVue

"I am the good shepherd. I know my own, and my own know me, just as the Father knows me, and I know the Father. And I lay down my life for the sheep." Joh 10:14-15 NRSVue

This belief incriminates God as partial, unjust and unrighteous!

Partial = God only died for a chosen number of people.
Unjust = Humans never had a fair chance to escape hell. He is the Creator of all and passed sentence on many from birth.
Unrighteous = Nothing righteous in creating from a lump of clay, some for honour and others for dishonour. IE He created many for the sole purpose of dying a cruel death in the fires of hell and some for eternal bliss. Imagine calling 'that' god, righteous!

Please explain to me how this belief does not incriminate God!

Please avoid dancing around the question. To help you focus, answer as if you just found out that you were not one of those chosen to be 'His sheep', despite your best efforts!

 

[KingJ]

Irresistible or Efficacious Grace
"Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and anyone who comes to me I will never drive away," Joh 6:37 NRSVue

"When the gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the word of the Lord, and as many as had been destined for eternal life became believers." Act 13:48 NRSVue

"Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence but much more now in my absence, work on your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure." Php 2:12-13 NRSVue

This is a fine belief to hold if in isolation to the U and L in TULIP. God gives grace to those who pass His vetting of repentance Psalm 51:17, servitude James 1:27 or martyrdom Rev 2:10.

Perseverance of the Saints
"My sheep hear my voice. I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand." Joh 10:27-28 NRSVue *If one can lose their eternal life, it was not eternal

"Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to make you stand without blemish in the presence of his glory with rejoicing, to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, power, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen." Jud 1:24-25 NRSVue

As with irresistible grace, this is a fine belief to hold if in isolation to the U and L in TULIP.

God properly vets us before He grafts us into His family. God is not a fool who saves a Judas or a demon. We, however, can be fools who can think we are saved when in fact we are not!

Jer 17:9-11 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? “I the Lord search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve.

 

[Dylan569]

This belief incriminates God as partial, unjust and unrighteous!

Partial = God only died for a chosen number of people.
Unjust = Humans never had a fair chance to escape hell. He is the Creator of all and passed sentence on many from birth.
Unrighteous = Nothing righteous in creating from a lump of clay, some for honour and others for dishonour. IE He created many for the sole purpose of dying a cruel death in the fires of hell and some for eternal bliss. Imagine calling 'that' god, righteous!

Please explain to me how this belief does not incriminate God!

Please avoid dancing around the question. To help you focus, answer as if you just found out that you were not one of those chosen to be 'His sheep', despite your best efforts!

I ignore the humanistic reasoning of man, even if sounding so very religious, and prefer to strictly adhere to God's word:

"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." (John 15:19 KJV)

"I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word." (John 17:6 KJV)

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Rev 5:9 KJV)

Those who wish to follow humanism's rejection of God's word, do we put sinful man's reasoning against the clear statements of God?

"For in scripture Pharaoh is told, ‘I have raised you up for this very purpose, to exhibit my power in my dealings with you, and to spread my fame over all the earth.’ Thus he not only shows mercy as he chooses, but also makes stubborn as he chooses. You will say, ‘Then why does God find fault, if no one can resist his will?’ Who do you think you are to answer God back? Can the pot say to the potter, ‘Why did you make me like this?’? Surely the potter can do what he likes with the clay. Is he not free to make two vessels out of the same lump, one to be treasured, the other for common use? But if it is indeed God’s purpose to display his retribution and to make his power known, can it be that he has with great patience tolerated vessels that were objects of retribution due for destruction, precisely in order to make known the full wealth of his glory on vessels that were objects of mercy, prepared from the first for glory? We are those objects of mercy, whom he has called from among Jews and Gentiles alike," (Rom 9:17-24 REB)

 

[KingJ]

I ignore the humanistic reasoning of man, even if sounding so very religious, and prefer to strictly adhere to God's word:

I don't think you understand what an acid test is, and this is not humanistic reasoning! I am using scriptures that prophets who knew God better than you are I, penned on His character.

You are incriminating God. Flying 100% against the teachings of these prophets in scripture (David, Job, Paul, John).

And you don't care?

How are you any better than the devil in the wilderness who also quoted scripture?

People like you belong on X where you can post with no interrogation. This is a discussion forum. Your theology has been challenged. I have judged it as evil. And you run from discussion.....

A Christian's ONE JOB is to be an ambassador for God!

2 Cor 5:20 So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us.

You leave the reader to assume the absolutely WORST of God, and offer NO, ZERO, ZIPPO defence for the fabrication of cherry-picked scriptures you provide. That is the definition of a false teacher.

 

[Dylan569]

I don't think you understand what an acid test is, and this is not humanistic reasoning! I am using scriptures that prophets who knew God better than you are I, penned on God's character.

You are incriminating God. Flying 100% against the teachings of these prophets in scripture (David, Job, Paul, John).

And you don't care?

How are you any better than the devil in the wilderness who also quoted scripture?

Why not interpret the verses I quoted so that they do not mean what they clearly state? Enough with your idea of putting God to your "acid test"!

 

[KingJ]

Why not interpret the verses I quoted so that they do not mean what they clearly state? Enough with your idea of putting God to your "acid test"!

Your erroneous theology is not 'Gods'. I am putting your theology to His acid test. Please re-read the OP.

You are failing at Jude 1:3 too.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

 

[Dylan569]

"Pertinent to the present purpose is that passage of Augustine: "Forasmuch as some people imagine that they must look on God as a respecter of persons if they believe that without any respect had to the previous merits of men, He hath mercy on whom He will, and calls whom it is His pleasure to call, and makes good whom He pleases. The scrupulousness of such people arises from their not duly attending to this one thing, namely, that damnation is rendered to the wicked as a matter of debt, justice, and desert, whereas the grace given to those who are delivered is free and unmerited, so that the condemned sinner cannot allege that he is unworthy of his punishment, nor the saint vaunt or boast as if he was worthy of his reward. Thus, in the whole course of this procedure, there is no respect of persons. They who are condemned and they who are set at liberty constituted originally one and the same lump, equally infected with sin and liable to vengeance. Hence the justified may learn from the condemnation of the rest that that would have been their own punishment had not God's free grace stepped in to their rescue."

"Since, as was lately observed, the determining will of God being omnipotent cannot be obstructed or made void, it follows that He never did, nor does He now, will that every individual of mankind should be saved. If this was His will, not one single soul could ever be lost (for who hath resisted His will?), and He would surely afford all men those effectual means of salvation, without which it cannot be had. Now, God could afford these means as easily to all mankind as to some only, but experience proves that He does not; and the reason is equally plain, namely, that He will not, for whatsoever the Lord pleaseth, that does He in heaven and on earth. It is said, indeed, by the apostle, that God "would have all men saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth," i.e., as Augustine, consistently with other Scriptures, explains the passage, "God will save some out of the whole race of mankind," that is, persons of all nations, kindreds and tongues. Nay, He will save all men, i.e., as the same father observes, "Every kind of men, or men of every kind," namely, the whole election of grace, be they bond or free, noble or ignoble, rich or poor, male or female. Add to this that it evidently militates against the majesty, omnipotence and supremacy of God to suppose that He can either will anything in vain, or that anything can take effect against His will; therefore Bucer observes, very rightly (ad Rom. ix.), "God doth not will the salvation of reprobates, seeing He hath not chosen them, neither created them to that end." Consonant to which are those words of Luther, "This mightily offends our rational nature, that God should, of His own mere unbiassed will, leave some men to themselves, harden them, and then condemn them; but He has given abundant demonstration, and does continually, that this is really the case, namely, that the sole cause why some are saved and others perish proceeds from His willing the salvation of the former and the perdition of the latter, according to that of Paul, 'He hath mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth.'" [Rom. 9.18.]

"The great Augustine, in his book of Retractations, ingenuously acknowledges his error in having once thought that faith foreseen was a condition of election; he owns that that opinion is equally impious and absurd, and proves that faith is one of the fruits of election, and consequently could not be, in any sense, a cause of it. "I could never have asserted," says he, "that God in choosing men to life had any respect to their faith, had I duly considered that faith itself is His own gift." And, in another treatise of his, he has these words: "Since Christ says, 'Ye have not chosen Me,' etc., I would fain ask whether it be Scriptural to say we must have faith before we are elected, and not, rather, that we are elected in order to our having faith?"

Thus Augustine: "We must preach, we must reprove, we must pray, because they to whom grace is given will hear and act accordingly, though they to whom grace is not given will do neither."

"Predestination is to be preached because the grace of God (which stands opposed to all human worthiness) cannot be maintained without it. The excellent Augustine makes use of this very argument. "If," says he, "these two privileges (namely, faith itself and final perseverance in faith) are the gifts of God, and if God foreknew on whom He would bestow these gifts (and who can doubt of so evident a truth?), it is necessary for predestination to be preached as the sure and invincible bulwark of that true grace of God, which is given to men without any consideration of merit." Thus argued Augustine against the Pelagians, who taught that grace is offered to all men alike; that God, for His part, equally wills the salvation of all, and that it is in the power of man's free-will to accept or reject the grace and salvation so offered. Which string of errors do, as Augustine justly observes, centre in this grand point, gratiam secundum nostra merita dari: that God's grace is not free, but the fruit of man's desert."

IT is a shame that the pillars of the faith from the past, did not have the knowledge of the scriptures as free-willers do today.

Passages lifted from ABSOLUTE PREDESTINATION, by Jerome Zanchius (1516-1590).

TrueCovenanter.com: The Doctrine of Absolute Predestination

Reformation Treatise on Predestination

www.truecovenanter.com

https://www.theopedia.com/jerome-zanchius

 

[Dylan569]

"Pertinent to the present purpose is that passage of Augustine: "Forasmuch as some people imagine that they must look on God as a respecter of persons if they believe that without any respect had to the previous merits of men, He hath mercy on whom He will, and calls whom it is His pleasure to call, and makes good whom He pleases. The scrupulousness of such people arises from their not duly attending to this one thing, namely, that damnation is rendered to the wicked as a matter of debt, justice, and desert, whereas the grace given to those who are delivered is free and unmerited, so that the condemned sinner cannot allege that he is unworthy of his punishment, nor the saint vaunt or boast as if he was worthy of his reward. Thus, in the whole course of this procedure, there is no respect of persons. They who are condemned and they who are set at liberty constituted originally one and the same lump, equally infected with sin and liable to vengeance. Hence the justified may learn from the condemnation of the rest that that would have been their own punishment had not God's free grace stepped in to their rescue."

"Since, as was lately observed, the determining will of God being omnipotent cannot be obstructed or made void, it follows that He never did, nor does He now, will that every individual of mankind should be saved. If this was His will, not one single soul could ever be lost (for who hath resisted His will?), and He would surely afford all men those effectual means of salvation, without which it cannot be had. Now, God could afford these means as easily to all mankind as to some only, but experience proves that He does not; and the reason is equally plain, namely, that He will not, for whatsoever the Lord pleaseth, that does He in heaven and on earth. It is said, indeed, by the apostle, that God "would have all men saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth," i.e., as Augustine, consistently with other Scriptures, explains the passage, "God will save some out of the whole race of mankind," that is, persons of all nations, kindreds and tongues. Nay, He will save all men, i.e., as the same father observes, "Every kind of men, or men of every kind," namely, the whole election of grace, be they bond or free, noble or ignoble, rich or poor, male or female. Add to this that it evidently militates against the majesty, omnipotence and supremacy of God to suppose that He can either will anything in vain, or that anything can take effect against His will; therefore Bucer observes, very rightly (ad Rom. ix.), "God doth not will the salvation of reprobates, seeing He hath not chosen them, neither created them to that end." Consonant to which are those words of Luther, "This mightily offends our rational nature, that God should, of His own mere unbiassed will, leave some men to themselves, harden them, and then condemn them; but He has given abundant demonstration, and does continually, that this is really the case, namely, that the sole cause why some are saved and others perish proceeds from His willing the salvation of the former and the perdition of the latter, according to that of Paul, 'He hath mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth.'" [Rom. 9.18.]

"The great Augustine, in his book of Retractations, ingenuously acknowledges his error in having once thought that faith foreseen was a condition of election; he owns that that opinion is equally impious and absurd, and proves that faith is one of the fruits of election, and consequently could not be, in any sense, a cause of it. "I could never have asserted," says he, "that God in choosing men to life had any respect to their faith, had I duly considered that faith itself is His own gift." And, in another treatise of his, he has these words: "Since Christ says, 'Ye have not chosen Me,' etc., I would fain ask whether it be Scriptural to say we must have faith before we are elected, and not, rather, that we are elected in order to our having faith?"

Thus Augustine: "We must preach, we must reprove, we must pray, because they to whom grace is given will hear and act accordingly, though they to whom grace is not given will do neither."

"Predestination is to be preached because the grace of God (which stands opposed to all human worthiness) cannot be maintained without it. The excellent Augustine makes use of this very argument. "If," says he, "these two privileges (namely, faith itself and final perseverance in faith) are the gifts of God, and if God foreknew on whom He would bestow these gifts (and who can doubt of so evident a truth?), it is necessary for predestination to be preached as the sure and invincible bulwark of that true grace of God, which is given to men without any consideration of merit." Thus argued Augustine against the Pelagians, who taught that grace is offered to all men alike; that God, for His part, equally wills the salvation of all, and that it is in the power of man's free-will to accept or reject the grace and salvation so offered. Which string of errors do, as Augustine justly observes, centre in this grand point, gratiam secundum nostra merita dari: that God's grace is not free, but the fruit of man's desert."

IT is a shame that the pillars of the faith from the past, did not have the knowledge of the scriptures as free-willers do today.

Passages lifted from ABSOLUTE PREDESTINATION, by Jerome Zanchius (1516-1590).

TrueCovenanter.com: The Doctrine of Absolute Predestination

Reformation Treatise on Predestination

www.truecovenanter.com

https://www.theopedia.com/jerome-zanchius

For those wishing to know what the true Christian faith is, the faith based upon scripture, I recommend 3 books online.

TrueCovenanter.com: The Doctrine of Absolute Predestination

Reformation Treatise on Predestination

www.truecovenanter.com

TrueCovenanter.com: The Bondage of the Will

The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination (eBook) | Monergism

by Loraine BoettnerIn .ePub, .mobi & .pdf formatsThe purpose of this book is not to set forth a new system of theological thought, but to give a re-statement

www.monergism.com

 

[KingJ]

@Dylan569

I asked you to defend your belief. You did not and could not do so. You ran from the matter.

Offer a sound rebuttal, or leave the thread. You are now simply trolling.

 

[KingJ]

For those wishing to know what the true Christian faith is, the faith based upon scripture, I recommend 3 books online.

TrueCovenanter.com: The Doctrine of Absolute Predestination

Reformation Treatise on Predestination

www.truecovenanter.com

TrueCovenanter.com: The Bondage of the Will

The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination (eBook) | Monergism

by Loraine BoettnerIn .ePub, .mobi & .pdf formatsThe purpose of this book is not to set forth a new system of theological thought, but to give a re-statement

www.monergism.com

I explain and state that your belief is heresy. You don't offer a sound rebuttal but continue copy-pasting your nonsense.

That is clear evidence of you being a false teacher and a terrible Christian.

Imagine being OK with serving a God that you believe IS evil.

You want the ''reader'' to learn of your belief? Well this thread has shown them that you are a blind follower who is fine with serving a god that is evil.

Fortunately, the reader can read scriptures from prophets in my OP that completely and utterly debunk your drivel.

 

[Dylan569]

Again, I'll leave it to the intelligence of the reader to determine what is true and what is false. The following scriptures are flat out denied by free-willers, but it is the word of God.

Total Depravity being Total Inability
"as it is written: 'There is no one who is righteous, not even one; there is no one who has understanding; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; there is no one who shows kindness; there is not even one.'” Rom 3:10-12 NRSVue

"You were dead through the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among those who are disobedient. All of us once lived among them in the passions of our flesh, doing the will of flesh and senses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like everyone else," Eph 2:1-3 NRSVue

"The heart is devious above all else; it is perverse— who can understand it?" Jer 17:9 NRSVue

Unconditional Election
"who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works but according to his own purpose and grace, and this grace was given to us in Christ Jesus before the ages began," 2Ti 1:9 NRSVue

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, just as he chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before him in love. He destined us for adoption as his children through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace that he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved." Eph 1:3-6 NRSVue *He chose us "to be holy and blameless, not because we were somehow already so.

"and all the inhabitants of the earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slaughtered." Rev 13:8 NRSVue

Limited Atonement, being a Particular Redemption and Definite Atonement
"They sing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to break its seals, for you were slaughtered and by your blood you ransomed for God saints from every tribe and language and people and nation;" Rev 5:9 NRSVue

"It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins; these follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been redeemed from humankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb" Rev 14:4 NRSVue

"I am the good shepherd. I know my own, and my own know me, just as the Father knows me, and I know the Father. And I lay down my life for the sheep." Joh 10:14-15 NRSVue

Irresistible or Efficacious Grace
"Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and anyone who comes to me I will never drive away," Joh 6:37 NRSVue

"When the gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the word of the Lord, and as many as had been destined for eternal life became believers." Act 13:48 NRSVue

"Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence but much more now in my absence, work on your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure." Php 2:12-13 NRSVue

Perseverance of the Saints
"My sheep hear my voice. I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand." Joh 10:27-28 NRSVue *If one can lose their eternal life, it was not eternal

"Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to make you stand without blemish in the presence of his glory with rejoicing, to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, power, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen." Jud 1:24-25 NRSVue

"May the God of peace himself sanctify you entirely, and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do this." 1Th 5:23-24 NRSVue

For a 'baker's dozen', I'll add a couple of overall passages -

"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the exiles of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who have been chosen and destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit to be obedient to Jesus Christ and to be sprinkled with his blood: May grace and peace be yours in abundance." 1Pe 1:1-2 NRSVue

"For God has destined us not for wrath but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep we may live with him." 1Th 5:9-10 NRSVue

I SUPPOSE THIS IS COPY-PASTING NONSENSE?

 

[KingJ]

Again, I'll leave it to the intelligence of the reader to determine what is true and what is false. The following scriptures are flat out denied by free-willers, but it is the word of God.

Well you have definitely shown your intelligence and heart to the reader!

You offer no rebuttal, don't care that you present God as evil and are so motivated to keep posting this drivel from the internet. What motivates you? You like incriminating God? Imagine that.

Imagine being ''ok'' with serving an evil god. I think you are in the wrong religion. Find one where people are ok with an evil god.

 

[Dylan569]

It seems the quotes from scripture are striking a raw nerve with some here, and upsetting them mightily.

 

[B-A-C]

I disagree with our inability to seek God.

So do I. Here is a small sampling, there are at least a dozen more I can add.

Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Acts 15:17 SO THAT THE REST OF MANKIND MAY SEEK THE LORD, AND ALL THE GENTILES WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME,'
Acts 17:27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

Mal 3:1 "Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the LORD of hosts.

Zec 8:21 'The inhabitants of one will go to another, saying, "Let us go at once to entreat the favor of the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts; I will also go."
Zec 8:22 'So many peoples and mighty nations will come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem and to entreat the favor of the LORD.'

Amos 5:4 For thus says the LORD to the house of Israel, "Seek Me that you may live.
Amos 5:6 "Seek the LORD that you may live, Or He will break forth like a fire, O house of Joseph, And it will consume with none to quench it for Bethel,

 

[B-A-C]

This is scripture also.

2Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

1Tim 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Tim 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1Jn 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

 

[Dylan569]

BAC, can you give a reasonable interpretation of the passages I quoted supporting TULP, in a manner to avoid making a contradiction with those you quote? If you give such, instead of merely introducing contradictions, I will happily give reasonable interpretations of your verses that are from the New Covenant showing that they DO NOT contradict what I posted under TULIP.

For example, for 2 Pet. 3:9 -

Peter is addressing the believers -
"This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you; in them I am trying to arouse your sincere intention by reminding you" (2Pe 3:1 NRSVue)

Peter is warning and alerting the believers about the scoffers that they will encounter -
First of all you must understand this, that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and indulging their own lusts and saying, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since our ancestors died, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation!” (2Pe 3:3-4 NRSVue)

Peter continues to speak to God's elect, the believers -
But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day. The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance. (2Pe 3:8-9 NRSVue)

So, it reads in context:
but is patient with you (elect), not wanting any(of the elect) to perish but all(of the elect) to come to repentance.

When the last person of God's elect is brought into the sheep fold, Christ will return.

 

[KingJ]

It seems the quotes from scripture are striking a raw nerve with some here, and upsetting them mightily.

It is hardly an achievement to quote scripture, the devil did that to Jesus in the wilderness.

You are pushing clear heresy that incriminates God and do not care to defend your belief when exposed.

You fail at being an ambassador for Jesus and scripture, which is your 'one' job on earth 2 Cor 5:20, Jude 1:3. Fail at agreeing with David, Paul, John and Job who per my OP defined God as just, righteous and impartial.

You do pass however with flying colours at being a troll and a false teacher.