Degrees of sin

[B-A-C]

The Roman Catholic church has a concept of "mortal" and "venial" sins. Meaning some sins are OK, and some sins aren't OK.
Some sins can be forgiven, and some sins can't be forgiven.

But is this really biblical?

It does seem there are differing "degrees" of son in the Bible. For example, it says Judas committed a "greater" sin.

John 19:11; Jesus answered, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin."

Some sins are called abominations, while others are not. For example, homosexuality is an abomination.

Lev 18:22; 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

So, while fornication and adultery are bad sins, ( practicing these things can keep you out of heaven ) it seems homosexuality is worse.

This is at least one sin, that doesn't lead to death. I've heard many different opinions on what this one sin is over the years.

1Jn 5:16; If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this.
1Jn 5:17; All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

Of course there is the unforgiveable sin as well.

Matt 12:31; "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
Matt 12:32; "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

You can reject Jesus ( at least once or twice ) and still be forgiven, but you can't blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

It seems there are greater consequences for knowing something is a sin, and doing it anyway. Being ignorant can be less painful.

Luke 12:46; the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers.
Luke 12:47; "And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes,
Luke 12:48; but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

Matt 23:14; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense you make long prayers; therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

So the concept of mortal sins and venial sins aren't in the Bible anywhere, indeed there are no verses in the entire Bible with the phrase "venial sin" or "mortal sin" in them anywhere.
It seems just about all sin leads to death.

Rom 6:23; For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Jas 1:15; Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

So while there may be 50 shades of grey, it seems most sin is simply black and white.

1Jn 1:7; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

 

[B-A-C]

The phrase the "seven deadly sins" isn't in the Bible either, but the idea may come from this passage.

Prov 6:16; There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
Prov 6:17; Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood,
Prov 6:18; A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil,
Prov 6:19; A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.

2Pet 2:20; For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
2Pet 2:21; For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.

Perhaps someone never heard about Jesus or the Bible, and that's bad enough. But someone did hear about Jesus and the Bible, but rejected it. It says this is "worse" than before. What could be worse than being unsaved and going to hell?

 

[Bill Taylor]

All sin kills, period, but all sin is forgivable of the truly repentant heart.

 

[ABlessedMan]

All sin kills, period, but all sin is forgivable of the truly repentant heart.

Do you think? Jesus said one isn't....

Mark 3:28-29
28 I tell you the truth, people will be forgiven for all sins, even all the blasphemies they utter. 29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin

 

[ABlessedMan]

The Roman Catholic church has a concept of "mortal" and "venial" sins. Meaning some sins are OK, and some sins aren't OK.
Some sins can be forgiven, and some sins can't be forgiven.

You have an erroneous view of Catholic belief. To note: I am not Catholic (I was for 20 years; have not been the last 40).

In Catholicism: venial and mortal sins are both forgivable in confession before their priest. From a repentance point of view, there is no difference.

The difference is if you die without having confessed the sins. Venial sins are considered a lesser sin that affects your charity in the world. After you die, if you have unconfessed venial sins, then you will go to purgatory (another unbiblical concept) and there you will pay a price for these sins. If you die with unconfessed mortal sins, your destination will be hell. There is no payment after you die for a mortal sin.

A venial sin: you lie.
A mortal sin: you murder.

And to a Catholic, no sin is OK. The payment (penance after confession and eternal state if you die with them unconfessed) for the sins are different.

But is this really biblical?

Is the Catholic view biblical? No, as you went on to point out.

 

[Bill Taylor]

Do you think? Jesus said one isn't....

Mark 3:28-29
28 I tell you the truth, people will be forgiven for all sins, even all the blasphemies they utter. 29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin

All sin that is repented of is forgiven but must be repented before entering Eternity.
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:


11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.


12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.


13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:


14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:


15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:


16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:


17 And the way of peace have they not known:


18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.


19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.


20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;


22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

[ABlessedMan]

All sin that is repented of is forgiven but must be repented before entering Eternity.

Nowhere in what you quoted does it say "all sin will be forgiven." But I gave you the verse, Mark 3:29, that say there is a sin that will NEVER be forgiven. EVER. Over, done with, gone. NEVER EVER!

Don't commit that one.

 

[KingJ]

The Roman Catholic church has a concept of "mortal" and "venial" sins. Meaning some sins are OK, and some sins aren't OK.
Some sins can be forgiven, and some sins can't be forgiven.

But is this really biblical?

It does seem there are differing "degrees" of son in the Bible. For example, it says Judas committed a "greater" sin.

So the concept of mortal sins and venial sins aren't in the Bible anywhere, indeed there are no verses in the entire Bible with the phrase "venial sin" or "mortal sin" in them anywhere.
It seems just about all sin leads to death.

Rom 6:23; For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Jas 1:15; Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

So while there may be 50 shades of grey, it seems most sin is simply black and white.

1Jn 1:7; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

You are reading and quoting scripture to tie in with your preconceived view which is absolutely incorrect.

Mortal and venial sins are no more mentioned then the trinity. Mortal simply means grievous and venial, non grievous. A lie can be both mortal and venial depending on the damage it inflicts.

The Catholic church has degrees of sin 100% correct.

1. In the OT, a simple read of Leviticus reveals how some sin got you A. A warning (venial sin), B. Lashes (venial sin), C. Excommunication (mortal sin), D. Death by stoning (mortal sin).
2. In Gen 18:20 we read that it was reported to God by the saints that the sins of Sodom were grievous (mortal sin). It was not merely reported that there were children stealing candy from the candy store (venial sin).
3. In Matt 5:28 we read of Jesus stating that thoughts of adultery = sin (venial sin), then in Matt 5:32 we read Him qualify His statement by stating that only 'actual' adultery is grounds for divorce (Mortal sin).
4. In 1 Cor 5:1 we read how Paul isolated a brother so called (1 Cor 5:11) guilty of the sexual immorality with his stepmother (mortal sin). Now it is very important to note that Paul did not isolate children stealing candy from the candy store (venial sin).
5. In Rom 7:15 we read how Paul battles with venial sins. We know he did not battle with mortal sins as he stopped murdering Christians.
6. In 1 Cor 6:1-9 Paul rebukes Christians who cannot judge matters better then the unsaved. The unsaved know to punish according to the crime / sin committed.

Conclusion:

OT, Gospels and NT speak with crystal clarity to degrees of sin. Paul would rebuke any who cannot discern degrees of sin. Both the statement 'sin is sin' and the statement 'sin has degrees' are true and sound. We need to be careful of stating only the statement 'sin is sin'. In isolation it is a half truth. Peaching a half truth is error and false teaching. False teaching.

 

[Curtis]

The "consequence" for sin is the same, but the "punishment" for "sin" varies.

Luke 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

 

[Curtis]

What is the "sin" that does not lead unto "death"?

What is the "sin" that leads to "death"?

1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

 

[KingJ]

What is the "sin" that does not lead unto "death"?

1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

I don't believe we need to over complicate the topic. In the OT it is crystal clear which sins resulted in the death penalty.

One may escape the death penalty by living in the NT / new dispensation, but don't for one second think you will escape it with God Rom 2:6.

 

[Bill Taylor]

Nowhere in what you quoted does it say "all sin will be forgiven." But I gave you the verse, Mark 3:29, that say there is a sin that will NEVER be forgiven. EVER. Over, done with, gone. NEVER EVER!

Don't commit that one.

God has provided for our salvation in His Son (John 3:16). Forgiveness is found exclusively in Jesus (John 14:6). To reject the only Savior is to be left with no means of salvation; to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.
Quote from gotquestions.org.

 

[Bill Taylor]

God has provided for our salvation in His Son (John 3:16). Forgiveness is found exclusively in Jesus (John 14:6). To reject the only Savior is to be left with no means of salvation; to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.
Quote from gotquestions.org.

If you do not die committing that sin it is forgivable. I was a Atheist but repented of it and now I am saved.

 

[Rockerduck]

Not obeying God is the worst sin. It is the same as witchcraft. Stubbornness is the same as worshipping Idols, according to God's word through Samuel, to King Saul.

1 Samuel 15:23 - Rebellion is as sinful as witchcraft, and stubbornness as bad as worshiping idols. So because you have rejected the command of the Lord, he has rejected you as king.”

 

[Charlie24]

What is the "sin" that does not lead unto "death"?

What is the "sin" that leads to "death"?

1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Those are 2 good questions, and they are hard to explain for one to understand. I have explained this several times in the past and wondered to myself, did I explain this in a way that can be understood? I will do my best to do that, but my best, as i have found through the years, is not always enough.

The sin that leads to death is unbelief. Let's look at 1 John 5:16

"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it."

John is speaking of "brothers in Christ." If one who understands the Cross of Christ is the source and direction of salvation, but see's another who is saved but is ignorant, doesn't completely understand, the more knowledgeable Brother is to pray for him. It's done in ignorance and is not a sin unto death. This person needs help to continue in the right direction.

"There is a sin unto death" is referring to unbelief. One who claims to be saved as is not. There is no ignorance it's just opposing the Cross of Christ. In this case John is saying don't pray for the forgiveness of this person's sins to be forgiven. It's not a lack of understanding but all unbelief.

John is speaking here of being on the right track with the Cross of Christ, the foundation of all doctrine. It's the ignorance vs. the unbelief.

Every Church is faced with this problem, and so is every online Christian Forum, including TJ.

 

[B-A-C]

The sin that leads to death is unbelief. Let's look at 1 John 5:16

Perhaps this is right, I don't know. However, I have a question...

Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

It seems these people believed in Jesus, they called Him "Lord", they did miracles "in His name". They cast out demons in His name ( Jesus says the devil doesn't cast out his own demons ) Matt 12:24-28;


Jas 2:19; You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

Even the demons "believe", why aren't they saved?

 

[Charlie24]

Perhaps this is right, I don't know. However, I have a question...

Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

It seems these people believed in Jesus, they called Him "Lord", they did miracles "in His name". They cast out demons in His name ( Jesus says the devil doesn't cast out his own demons ) Matt 12:24-28;


Jas 2:19; You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

Even the demons "believe", why aren't they saved?

All of these people who will hear, "depart from me, I never knew you" regardless of their situations, they all fall under one category, unbelief.

They did not know the way of salvation through their own faults and did not meet the condition Christ laid out!

Just as some will choose evil in their lives and reject Christ, so did the angels who followed after Satan.

Again, one category, unbelief.

 

[Curtis]

All of these people who will hear, "depart from me, I never knew you" regardless of their situations, they all fall under one category, unbelief.

They did not know the way of salvation through their own faults and did not meet the condition Christ laid out!

Just as some will choose evil in their lives and reject Christ, so did the angels who followed after Satan.

Again, one category, unbelief.

Self works vs God works. Head knowledge vs revelation knowledge. Knowing about God vs knowing God makes all the difference in the world.

 

[lentz]

Self works vs God works. Head knowledge vs revelation knowledge. Knowing about God vs knowing God makes all the difference in the world.

What has that to do with grading sins

 

[Devoted]

Jesus talked to the people by many parables as noted.


Luke 12:47

47 And that servant, which KNEW his Lord's WILL, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Now does this mean there are degrees of sin, I do not know but scripture teaches this.....

James 4:14-17

14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.

15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.

17 Therefore to him that KNOWETH to do good, and doeth it NOT, TO HIM IT IS SIN.

It's a fine line we walk, and the world is observing every step, we are not promised another chance at .......... tomorrow !