Dispensationalism

[Admon Mikha'el]

I have seen many times arguments against dispesationalism......What the dickens is dispensationalism?

 

[Charlie24]

I have seen many times arguments against dispesationalism......What the dickens is dispensationalism?

The following came from post #25 in the thread "The One Event" as I gave a brief description of dispensationalism.

Dispensations are times throughout history where God dealt with man according to the knowledge man had of God at that particular time.

For example, we have much more knowledge of God now, than those under the Law. Those under the Law had more knowledge of God than those who lived before the Law given, etc, etc.

Through measuring out these times in dispensations we can see how the knowledge of God spread throughout time.

There are 7 dispensations and by chance there are 7 churches given letters in Revelations.

We use the these dispensations to see the letters to the church's in Revelations as a view of the condition of the church's in the past 2000 years, or so.

For example, The first church mentioned in Rev. 2, Ephesus, represents the first church established in the first century. Each church represents a continuous progression of the church's condition until we reach the last church of the 7, Laodicea. This is the last church and is the church we see today, totally rejected by Christ, whereas the previous church's did have some, maybe few but some good qualities.

From acknowledging these periods of time, we can grasp a much better understanding of the Scripture. But it doesn't stop here, it is used in many other Scriptures as to set forth a better understanding to interpret Scripture.

 

[Charlie24]

The following came from post #25 in the thread "The One Event" as I gave a brief description of dispensationalism.

Dispensations are times throughout history where God dealt with man according to the knowledge man had of God at that particular time.

For example, we have much more knowledge of God now, than those under the Law. Those under the Law had more knowledge of God than those who lived before the Law given, etc, etc.

Through measuring out these times in dispensations we can see how the knowledge of God spread throughout time.

There are 7 dispensations and by chance there are 7 churches given letters in Revelations.

We use the these dispensations to see the letters to the church's in Revelations as a view of the condition of the church's in the past 2000 years, or so.

For example, The first church mentioned in Rev. 2, Ephesus, represents the first church established in the first century. Each church represents a continuous progression of the church's condition until we reach the last church of the 7, Laodicea. This is the last church and is the church we see today, totally rejected by Christ, whereas the previous church's did have some, maybe few but some good qualities.

From acknowledging these periods of time, we can grasp a much better understanding of the Scripture. But it doesn't stop here, it is used in many other Scriptures as to set forth a better understanding to interpret Scripture.

To go a little deeper into dispensationalism, let me give you some more information on it.

Dispensationalism is a way of ordering things pertaining to Scripture.

It includes the literal interpretation of Scripture until it becomes obvious it's not literal/

For example. Christ said, "you are the salt of the earth," obviously man is not salt. So this is not literal but a symbol of a truth He expresses.

This idea falls back on Hermeneutics, which set the rules for interpreting Scripture.

 

[Hekuran]

Here's a decent summary of dispensationalism.

Dispensational Theology

Dispensationalism is an evangelical theological system that addresses issues concerning the biblical covenants, Israel, the church, and end times.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

Dispensationalism is an evangelical theological system that addresses issues concerning the biblical covenants, Israel, the church, and end times. It also argues for a literal interpretation of Old Testament prophecies involving ethnic/national Israel, and the idea that the church is a New Testament entity that is distinct from Israel.​

The two most distinctive ideas are the rapture and a separation of church and Israel. If you meeting someone who believes that the Bible should be read literally, there will be a pretribulation rapture and that the modern nation of Israel is central to the coming Day of the Lord, you're talking to a person who has absorbed dispensationalist theology.

 

[Charlie24]

Here's a decent summary of dispensationalism.

Dispensational Theology

Dispensationalism is an evangelical theological system that addresses issues concerning the biblical covenants, Israel, the church, and end times.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

Dispensationalism is an evangelical theological system that addresses issues concerning the biblical covenants, Israel, the church, and end times. It also argues for a literal interpretation of Old Testament prophecies involving ethnic/national Israel, and the idea that the church is a New Testament entity that is distinct from Israel.​

The two most distinctive ideas are the rapture and a separation of church and Israel. If you meeting someone who believes that the Bible should be read literally, there will be a pretribulation rapture and that the modern nation of Israel is central to the coming Day of the Lord, you're talking to a person who has absorbed dispensationalist theology.

That is correct! They are called Fundamentalists.

 

[Hekuran]

That is correct! They are called Fundamentalists.

There's plenty of overlap, but not all fundamentalists follow dispensationalist theology. A literal interpretation of the Bible is a mainstay of fundamentalism, but not all fundamentalists believe in a rapture before the great tribulation, and not all separate Israel and the church.

 

[Charlie24]

There's plenty of overlap, but not all fundamentalists follow dispensationalist theology. A literal interpretation of the Bible is a mainstay of fundamentalism, but not all fundamentalists believe in a rapture before the great tribulation, and not all separate Israel and the church.

I don't know any of that sort, not saying they don't exist. But I can say I know many fundamentalists but none of what you are describing.

Of course, I live in the South, in the Bible Belt, that may be why.

 

[B-A-C]

Dispensationalism is an evangelical theological system that addresses issues concerning the biblical covenants, Israel, the church, and end times. It also argues for a literal interpretation of Old Testament prophecies involving ethnic/national Israel, and the idea that the church is a New Testament entity that is distinct from Israel.

..."addresses issues concerning biblical covenants"... seems like an odd way to word it. But that's basically dispensationalism in a nutshell.

In this case, the major covenants would be...

pre-law. - For example Cain and Abel both gave offerings/sacrifices to God. The Bible doesn't really say why they did this. But we know Abel's was pleasing to God.

Gen 4:3; So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the LORD of the fruit of the ground.
Gen 4:4; Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering;

was this a covenant per se?

God made a covenant with Noah.

Gen 6:18; "But I will establish My covenant with you; and you shall enter the ark—you and your sons and your wife, and your sons' wives with you.

the Abrahamic covenant - circumcision.
There were three promises God gave Abram/Abraham. But only one of them depended on Abraham doing anything.

Gen 17:11; "And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you.

Then, of course we have Moses and the Law. - The commandments.
Priests, animal sacrifices, stoning people, yearly ceremonies, and grain offerings. When God wrote the commandments of the stone tablets, they were put into something
called the ark of ... "the covenant". This covenant was the Law. - Basically the books of Exodus and Leviticus.

Then along comes Jesus....
The New Testament, the new covenant. The church age. Jesus said His blood was the covenant.

Matt 26:28; for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.
Mark 14:24; And He said to them, "This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.

I don't know that the Bible says, the Holy Spirit is a covenant, but the Bible says unless you receive the Holy Spirit you cannot see the Kingdom of God. ( John 3:3-5; )

To over-simplify this, it's what you had to do to please God and be saved. To inherit eternal life during a particular "dispensation". ( type of covenant )

Presumably, there will be a different covenant, after Jesus returns? Certainly after the New Earth and New Heaven is created.

 

[Dave M]

best video I have seen

 

[B-A-C]

best video I have seen

I have seen similar. But there are quite a few things that neither side discusses at all, and some things are not taken into consideration at all.

He talks about the Jews possessing/controlling the lands of the middle East ( the land promised to Abraham's descendants ).
But it seems both sides are forgetting the Ishmael is Abraham's descendant as well, and his descendants own that land to this very day.

The New heavens and the new Earth. Did that already happen? Satan being imprisoned for 1,000 years and then destroyed?
Did that already happen? Satan being released from prison, raising up an innumerable army and then him and all his followers
(every one who opposes God ) are destroyed. Did this already happen?

The siege of Jerusalem didn't last 7 years. Or even three and half years. The temple wasn't desecrated for 3 1/2 years, because it
wasn't there for 3 1/2 years after the siege. The siege of Jerusalem lasted about six months. The temple was destroyed within the
first six months.

There are dozens of other things that don't even seem to be considered by either side.

 

[Beetow]

~
Dispensations have their pluses and minuses. For example:

Melchizedek was a high priest back in the days of Abraham, which was something
like +/- 400 years prior to the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God
per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. That covenant penalizes
offenders with a number of curses for non compliance: seen listed at Lev 26:14-39,
Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:15-68.

The thing is: Mel was immune to all those curses because the covenant isn't
retroactive. (Deut 5:2-4 & Gal 3:17) So then none of the covenant's curses for non
compliance applied to him. (Rom 4:15 & Rom 5:12-13) And seeing as how
Abraham was within Mel's sphere of spiritual authority (Gen 14:20 & Heb 7:4-10)
then Abraham was exempt from the covenant's curses too.

For example: the covenant prohibits dishonesty (Lev 19:11) and it prohibits
sleeping with one's half-sister. (Lev 18:9) But God couldn't indict Abraham for
those behaviors because in his day, they were not yet codified; not even the Ten
Commandments. Mel and Abraham had quite an advantage that his later-to-come
posterity wasn't afforded.

BTW: Jesus' priesthood is patterned after Melchizedek's (Ps 110:4 & Heb 5:1-10)
which of course implies that everybody within Jesus' sphere of spiritual authority
qualifies for Abraham's advantage.
_

 

[Hekuran]

~
Dispensations have their pluses and minuses. For example:

Melchizedek was a high priest back in the days of Abraham, which was something
like +/- 400 years prior to the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God
per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. That covenant penalizes
offenders with a number of curses for non compliance: seen listed at Lev 26:14-39,
Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:15-68.

The thing is: Mel was immune to all those curses because the covenant isn't
retroactive. (Deut 5:2-4 & Gal 3:17) So then none of the covenant's curses for non
compliance applied to him. (Rom 4:15 & Rom 5:12-13) And seeing as how
Abraham was within Mel's sphere of spiritual authority (Gen 14:20 & Heb 7:4-10)
then Abraham was exempt from the covenant's curses too.

For example: the covenant prohibits dishonesty (Lev 19:11) and it prohibits
sleeping with one's half-sister. (Lev 18:9) But God couldn't indict Abraham for
those behaviors because in his day, they were not yet codified; not even the Ten
Commandments. Mel and Abraham had quite an advantage that his later-to-come
posterity wasn't afforded.

BTW: Jesus' priesthood is patterned after Melchizedek's (Ps 110:4 & Heb 5:1-10)
which of course implies that everybody within Jesus' sphere of spiritual authority
qualifies for Abraham's advantage.
_

That's confusing and creates all sorts of problems. For example, you might say murder was not ruled out until the ten commandments were given, yet when Cain killed his brother the Lord pronounced a curse
“What have you done? Listen, your brother’s blood is crying out to me from the ground! And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. When you till the ground, it will no longer yield to you its strength; you will be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth.”

 

[Beetow]

~

That's confusing and creates all sorts of problems. For example, you might say
murder was not ruled out until the ten commandments were given, yet when Cain
killed his brother the Lord pronounced a curse

Curses vary.

For example; Cain was allowed to live, whereas the appropriate retribution for
murder is death.

● Gen 9:5-6 . . And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will
demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand
an accounting for the life of his fellow man. Whoever sheds the blood of man, by
man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man.

That law didn't go on the books till after the Flood, many years too late to enforce
upon Cain. As a result; his "curse" was actually a slap on the wrist compared to
what he deserved.

Cain was forced to become itinerant, which was inconvenient; but in that day the
Earth was in its youth and lots more pluvial. No doubt the land produced an
abundance of natural foods for him to get by on. But of course he couldn't settle
down and grow his own; instead, he had to depend upon mother nature to supply
them.
_