Do the wicked cease to exist?

[pajaro]

Psalm 37:10 says, "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be."

Does this mean that the wicked simply perish and don't exist anymore anywhere?

 

[B-A-C]

I think it makes a little more sense, if you read verses 9, 10 and 11 together.
They will not inherit the land (promised land, or heaven). But I don't think they cease to exist.

Rev 20:10; Rev 14:11; Jude 1:13; 1 Cor 3:15; Rev 21:8; Matt 18:8; Matt 25:41; Matt 25:46; 2 Thes 1:9; Heb 6:2; Jude 1:7; etc..

Some of these verses specifically mention eternal torment and eternal punishment (also the story of Lazarus
and the rich man comes to mind Luke 16:24; ). Others simply mention an eternal fire. I guess the question is... if all of the
evil people are simply burned up, why would the fire need to be eternal? (Besides this would conflict with the verses about eternal punishment). Finally, if there is no punishment for sin, (other than you cease to exist) then why worry about God's judgment and God's wrath? Why stop sinning at all?

 

[pajaro]

Finally, if there is no punishment for sin, (other than you cease to exist) then why worry about God's judgment and God's wrath? Why stop sinning at all?

Well, one reason could be you are born again and want to fellowship with God forever, and be in his love rather than to cease to exist.

 

[Curtis]

Psalm 37:10 says, "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be."

Does this mean that the wicked simply perish and don't exist anymore anywhere?

No. Just because someone is removed and not seen anymore on the earth, does not mean they do not exist.

 

[Travis]

Does this mean that the wicked simply perish and don't exist anymore anywhere?

Nope

Eternal damnation is eternal consciousness

 

[amadeus2]

Psalm 37:10 says, "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be."

Does this mean that the wicked simply perish and don't exist anymore anywhere?

Why should the wicked continue to be at all? If they do continue then why is it that they know nothing?

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." Ecc 9:5

All of us born to woman are only stewards of the land which is us and contains what we are. If we never become heirs (joint heirs with Christ : Rom 8:17) then we shall never own anything and we will not remember anything.

The eternal fire that burns up the wicked is, of course, God [Deut 4:24 and Heb 12:29]. We see the type or shadow of this God in Daniel 3 when the strongest of natural men die while throwing the three Hebrews into the fire. The three Hebrews, of course, living by faith are not even singed and come out of the fire without even the smell burning on them. Only the ropes which bound them are gone. This is the kind of God we serve.

People can condemn the unbelievers and the backsliders to an eternal fire if that is their belief, but that is not how I heard it.
Let it be God that gives the increase provide the truth of this matter if it needs to be known.

 

[Itz Me]

Psalm 37:10 says, "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be."

Does this mean that the wicked simply perish and don't exist anymore anywhere?

Hi! 'Pajaro'
Concerning your above question:
What is the condition of those who lived before Jesus came? The answer is that all these people went to the realm of death, to Sheol, the righteous as well as the unrighteous, the believers as well as the unbelievers. The rich man was there, but also Abraham and Lazarus the beggar, although there was a deep gulf between them.
Among the righteous in Sheol, however, there were. also those who during their lives had looked forward to the spiritual world, who always thought about this world and who by the 'testimony' they received from God also obtained some insight into the Kingdom of heaven. Abel comes to mind, a man who must have thought about the forgiveness of his sins and reached the conclusion that this could only be brought about by the shedding of blood. Also Enoch, who considered another part of the foundation of the faith, that of the eternal judgment between good and evil. Then there is Abraham, who sought an unseen city, built on the foundation of faith, whose builder and maker is God. The prophets also searched and inquired who these spiritual people might be, the Spirit in them was speaking of. For by these people the final purpose of the faith would be reached, that is the salvation of the souls. (lPet 1:9,10). All these seekers for the Kingdom of God would be the first to take up their place in the heavenly paradise. These spiritually inclined saints were taken out of Sheol at the resurrection of Jesus and replanted in the garden of God.
This insight is found in Matthew 27:52, among others, where this migration of the saints is mentioned. When Jesus died, many signs took place on earth, but also in the heavenly places. When the veil of the sanctuary was torn from top to bottom this, as we saw before, was an expression of the removal of the garment of sin and guilt which separated man from God. This heavenly act took place when the veil of Jesus' body, in which he carried away the guilt of the world, was 'torn': in His death, that means, when it was separated from His inner man. The opening of the tombs was another image, just as the tearing of the veil. It means to picture the things taking place with many of the saints who had fallen asleep. After their inner men, that is with their spiritual bodies, these saints were in Sheol, the realm of the dead. They were raised, that is, they received a sign that the time had come to rise and start a new period of life. After Jesus' resurrection they left Sheol and went to 'the holy city' which according to Rev 2:12 is the new Jerusalem. Here they appeared to many. This should not be taken to mean the earthly Jerusalem. Being inhabitants of the new Jerusalem these saints manifested themselves on earth in a resurrection body in the same way Jesus did. The holy city is a collective name for the people of God, just as the paradise is a parable or an image of the Kingdom of the Father.
Thus after Jesus' resurrection there was a tree of life in the spiritual garden together with a great many other plants. As a member of the people of God of the old dispensation, Jesus stood out by His perfect glory, for the Holy Spirit dwelled in Him, the perfectly righteous. He therefore was a tree growing on the bank of the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, (Rev 22:1).
At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit descended and also took up a dwelling place in the hearts of the many righteous believers of the new covenant. All who later believed in Jesus, and gave testimony of their faith and pressed on for the baptism in the Holy Spirit, received the Spirit. They were the people of whom Jesus said to the Father: "Thine they were, and thou gavest them to me.", (John 17:6). Now they also have their place beside the river of living water. To continue in the same metaphor: those who are baptized in the Holy Spirit are replanted by the heavenly Husbandman to the banks of the river of life. There they keep growing and developing after the image of Jesus Christ. They are the trees of life, or as it says literally, the 'timber' of life which produces the same fruit as the first tree of life and also serves for the protection and healing of the nations.

 

[Itz Me]

No. Just because someone is removed and not seen anymore on the earth, does not mean they do not exist.

Hi! Curtis
Jus' sumthin' tuh share with you:
In his description of the last judgment in Rev 20, John mentions a great glittering throne, which is an image of authority and judgment. Apart from the eternal God, no doubt the Lamb will also sit on this throne. The Lord Himself mentioned this authority of his in Matt 28:18 : "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me". About the judgment He also. said: "The Father judges no one but has given all judgment to the Son," (John 5:22). In Acts 17:31 it says: "Because God has fixed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom He has appointed, and of this He has given assurance to all men by raising him from the dead. Our Lord sits on the throne, "for He must reign until He has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death", (1Cor 15:25-26). This means that our Lord takes part in the last judgment where/when Death will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.
The White Throne is a very large throne, for besides Jesus, the congregation is also involved in the judgment, as Paul said: "Do you not know that the saints will judge the world?" The sons of God will judge the visible as well as the unseen world, for the apostle continued as follows: "Do you not know that we are to judge angels?", (ICor 6:2-3). Those who have fought the good fight will be able to pass a righteous and merciful judgment, just as it says about Jesus that He is able to sympathize with our weaknesses, (Heb 4:15).
John saw how the dead of all ages, except those who shared in the first resurrection and those who were transplanted into the heavenly paradise, now rise from Hades. Then it is fulfilled: "The hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment", (John 5:28-29). Daniel said this about the second resurrection: "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt", (Dan 12:2). The verse speaks of 'many', not of 'all'; because many dead were to share in the first resurrection and never see death, (John 8:51). Please note the contrast between I everlasting life' on the one hand and 'everlasting shame and contempt' on the other. Jesus used the same expression of endlessness when He said: "They will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life", (Matt 25:46).
Hades, the realm of the dead, then, contains several categories of dead:
a). The godless whose consciences are seared and who therefore are for ever connected with the evil spirits they served.
b). Those of the old covenant who were not transferred to the heavenly paradise when Jesus rose from the dead, although they had served God.
c). Those who never had the opportunity to know the true God and never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ, yet did righteousness and sought for good.
In Revelation 20:12 we see that books will be opened at the last judgment, and also that there is a book of life. The dead will then be judged by what wag written in the books, by what they had done. The book of life shows that not all will be sent to the lake of fire.
When at the end of the Millennium the devil is thrown into the second death, he leaves behind a legacy, namely his bookkeeping. Until his very end he kept a record of all who had worked for him during their life on earth. The devil has to pay the wages for every lawless act done for him on earth. The 'wages' paid by the devil will bring man into death. It says: "The wages of sin is death", and "Sin when it is full grown brings forth death". The heavenly Father does not keep these records of sin, for there is not a single reason for Him to do so. Why would He keep the wage list of those people who did evil and therefore worked for His enemy? Job knew of the bookkeeping of the Evil One, but he also knew himself to be righteous, for which reason his works could not have been recorded on the wage list of the Evil One. He said confidently: "Oh, that I had the indictment written by my adversary. Surely I would carry it on my shoulder; I would bind it on me as a crown. I would give him (the devil) account of all my steps; like a prince I would approach him", (Job 31:35-37). The 'him' of these verses is not the Almighty, as the New English Bible seems to assume. It would not be fit even for the righteous to approach God as princes.
What will happen with the categories of dead which I mentioned above?
a). The bible speaks of those who have consciously chosen the side of the Evil One, as it says for instance in John 3:19 "This is the judgment that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." In the day of judgment these godless people will flee away from the presence of the Lord, together with the spirits they are united with. They will throw themselves into the lake of fire, in the outer darkness of the concentration of all the powers of hell.
b). Then there are the righteous of the Old Covenant who did serve God, yet without paying attention to the unseen world. Their lack of knowledge is expressed by the Preacher when he said: "For the fate of the sons of man and the fate of beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity. All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knows (or: observes) that the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down to the earth?", (Eccl 3:19-21).
The Preacher was a man who believed only what he could observe with his senses. He served God for this life only, that he might prosper and have a long life, and his children might share in his blessing. He was not righteous as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the prophets were righteous, for he was not interested in the things of heaven. For him there was no unseen world to focus his attention on. Those who lived and thought , as he did would not receive a place in the heavenly paradise. They are put in the same category with the last group.
c). In the vision of the last judgment we read of 'the book of life' in which are recorded the names of those who will not be thrown into the lake of fire but will share in the life that is from God. Even before the birth of Jesus this book was mentioned in the Old Testament. When Moses interceded for his disobedient people, he said: " Forgive their sin and if riot, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written", (Ex 32:32). David prayed this prayer about his wicked enemies: "Let them be blotted out of the book of the living; let them not be enrolled among the righteous", (Ps 69:28). So here we already have an indication that man is cut off by the sins he does and not by the condition he is in at the time of his birth. The New Testament follows the same line of thought where it says that those who conquer evil will not be blotted out of the book of life, (Rev 3:5).
The Book of Life therefore contains the names of those who have done deeds of righteousness. It should of course be clear that this is not the perfect righteousness as it is given by Jesus. The dead will be judged 'according to what they have done'. As for the perfectly righteous, they are in the New Jerusalem and will not come in Hades or in death. About them the Bible says , that their names are written in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain, (Rev 13:8 and 21:27), while to those who do see death it simply applies that a number from among them are recorded in the book of life.
Many Christians believe that all who-do not believe in Christ will perish for ever. Clearly, this view can hardly be maintained of those who were born before the coming of our Lord. And about those who did believe 'in Jesus' we immediately have to ask the question: to what extent did Jesus preached to them, conform to the Christ of Scripture? What kind of Jesus did the people believe in during the Dark Ages? And what of the vast differences between Roman Catholics, Reformed, Methodists, and Full Gospel Christians, not to mention the Jehovah Witnesses, Adventists, and Mormons? Surely, we are not dealing with a magic name by which we are saved, but rather with meaningful faith in the name of Jesus! How many. people really know Jesus the Savior, the Healer, the Restorer and the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit?
The last Judgment is for this third category of people who never heard the pure "Word of God" preached to them. Yet they did what the law of God commanded, and their conscience often functioned quite adequately despite its shortcomings. In this context Paul mentioned the Gentiles who do by nature what the law requires, (Rom 2:14). These Gentiles show a great difference with those mentioned in Romans 1, about whom lie said that God had given them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity and a base mind. These people had been surrendered and become a prey of the unclean demons, John 3:36 says: "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him". This verse is about the people who hear the true gospel and accept or reject it, as the case may be. I can understand that a rational person rejects a certain way of representation of the gospel, simply because it is contrary to tile most basic rules of justice. A case in point is the doctrine of predestination which relegates certain people to eternal perdition even before they have done either good or evil. The people who teach this doctrine have twisted to their own destruction certain things which Paul said, as Peter knew it would happen.
In the last paragraph of Matthew 25, we read about the people who share in the blessings of the heavenly Father, (even though they knew little or nothing of the true gospel of Jesus Christ). In their lives these people showed divine qualities, namely compassion and loving kindness. When the Book of Life is opened, judgment is passed upon those in whom the image of God has not completely vanished. Their mind had functioned correctly and their conscience had not been seared. Their hearts were full of love of their fellow men, and they sought for the things God seeks for: salvation and restoration. They were not connected with the pitiless demons, and in the judgment they are therefore not surrendered to the lake of fire. James the apostle-said about them: "Mercy triumphs over judgment", or as the Amplified Bible puts it: "Mercy full of glad confidence exults victoriously over judgment", (James 2:13). Mercy shown to the least of men is regarded by the Lord as having been shown to Himself. His gospel is founded on the love and mercy of God, and Paul said that God will judge the secrets of men according to His gospel, (Rom 2:16). An example of this type of person is Ebed Melech the Ethiopian who showed mercy to Jeremiah by carefully lifting him out of the pit he had been thrown in. Another is the Samaritan who showed mercy to his 'fellow man', 'one of the least of these', and helped him on his way.' His compassion was not an outward compulsion but an inner need which was part of his inner make-up.
Why did the rich man lift up his eyes in Hades being in torment? Simply because he had failed to comfort and feed Lazarus; he had not paid attention to 'one of the least' among the children of man. Those who show compassion and mercy live in, the spirit of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The gospel of Jesus is preached that the followers of the Master should show mercy in the visible as well as in the unseen world. True compassion and mercy can only be shown by those who are filled with the Holy Spirit, for the love of God and the gifts of the Spirit enable them to have compassion on their fellow men in the natural as well as in the spiritual world. When the book of life is opened, the people recorded there are unable to see a connection between their good works and Jesus Christ. They ask: "Why did we see you?" The 'blessed of the Father' as well as the 'cursed' ask this question. Here we therefore have the separation among those who lived before the coming of the Lord and among those who never heard the true gospel.
There have always been good people among the 'Gentiles' who did not know Jesus. Before he had been converted, the following, testimony was given of a certain Roman soldier: "Cornelius, a centurion of what was known as the Italian cohort, a devout man who feared God with all his household, giving alms liberally to the people, and prayed constantly to God, (Acts 10:1-2). He was a good example of a 'blessed of the Father', a man of good repute among those who knew him. A 'pious' Jew was allowed to remove with his finger a dirty fly from his cup of wine, but had the cup been held by this Roman, he would not have been allowed to drink it, for that meant real contamination! There also was the centurion at Capernaum, of whom the people said that he was worthy to have Jesus do something for him, And the Lord was able to do a great work of salvation there!
The last verse of Matthew 25 clearly refers to the final destination of those who were merciful and just in the natural world. They received eternal life. This salvation is possible for them because Jesus, the Lamb of God, died for the sins of the whole world. At the last judgment we see the far horizons of the limitless mercy of our God, who does not wish a single man to perish if lie is hungry and thirsty for righteousness.
Does this mean that man has a second chance of salvation? No, for the people who stand before God here have never had a single chance, because the true gospel had never been preached to them. What did most of our parents know of the glory of the full gospel, even while seeking for truth and righteousness as they sincerely were? If they had heard the real true gospel of Jesus they would have accepted it wholeheartedly, for, this message would have offered them the opportunity to do well; not only in the natural world but also in the spiritual realm. Thus they would have been set free from their unseen enemies themselves, and would also have delivered others from their sins, sicknesses and bondage.
After the last judgment those who are written in the book of life and judged according to their works will find their destination on a new earth. With the little children who were unable to distinguish good from evil they form the great category of which the bible says that the glory of the nations has to be brought into the gates of the new Jerusalem.

 

[Itz Me]

Hi! 'Curtis'
Jus' sum-ore sharing regarding my earlier Comment:
When John the apostle concludes the Revelation, he uses two very beautiful images: the trees of life and the holy city. In Revelation these two collectives are both images of the people of God from the old as well as from the New Covenant. Chapter 21 describes the descent of the new Jerusalem from heaven to earth. This city should not be localized in any one place, because it consists of purely spiritual people who can be compared to stones of which the city is built.
Citizenship of this city is obtained by being recorded in the Book of Life of the Lamb. This book contains the names of those who are perfectly righteous by faith in the atoning blood of Jesus.
In the New Jerusalem we are able to distinguish three categories of citizens:
The righteous of the Old Covenant who were transferred from Sheol to the holy city when Jesus was resurrected. At that stage they still lacked indwelling of the Holy Spirit, for the Old Covenant did not have the baptism in the Spirit.
All who obtained true righteousness by accepting the message of the cross of Jesus Christ, yet were not baptized in the Holy Spirit and had no knowledge of the gospel of the Kingdom of heaven. These are in the same condition as the Old Testament 'saints'.
Those who are cleansed in the blood of Jesus and are baptized in the Holy Spirit, allowing the Spirit to develop His gifts in them, that they should be able to use the keys of the Kingdom of heaven. In the image of the new Jerusalem, this category is the temple of God. In the image of the paradise they are the trees of life.
Once again I need to stress that the holy city or the paradise of God should not be taken to be a particular place in the universe, no more than the realm of the dead. These 'places' are made up of purely spiritual beings who are not located in time or space. The city of God does not consist of dead people but of living; because all who belong to it have gone from death into life. I think that I mentioned earlier that, at the death of a born-again Christian, his physical body returns to dust, that is, is surrendered to lawlessness. But his inner man goes on living in the unseen world in a spiritual body. Furthermore, We have obtained this spiritual habitation now, (not only at the second coming of the Lord), and we develop it by the good works which we do. The apostle wrote: "For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands. eternal in the heavens", (2Cor 5:1). Whereas Paul wrote: 'We know' many people of our days will have to admit they know-little or nothing about this spiritual house".
There is no death in the city of God but only life. And, where there is life, there will be development, activity and growth. What could be the duties of those who died 'in Christ', of those who are baptized in the Holy Spirit and belong to the temple, of those who continued on earth the work Jesus had begun? Will they have something to do after they have died? Doesn't the Bible say that they will rest from their labors? No, for in Rev 14:13 John writes: "That they may rest from their labors (their toils and trials), for their deeds follow them". Their 'labors' were the resistance and attacks of the powers of darkness, who tried to oppress, injure and torment them under the leadership of the 'ruler of this world'. When they die this struggle is past, because the Evil One is not permitted to enter come within the walls of the holy city and he cannot touch the believers who are in the city.
The works or deeds of every believer, however, will follow the Christian to the heavenly Jerusalem. There he may continue what he started on earth. In the Holy City it will of course no longer be necessary to deliver souls from the power of the evil spirits, but there still is the task of leading many to the baptism in the Holy Spirit, that they too may share in the glory of God. Hebrews 11:40 says that the faithful of the Old Covenant did not receive what was promised, since God had foreseen something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.
Thus we see that the congregation of Jesus Christ again is the instrument of God to help the creation, to restore and perfect it, this time, however, not merely on earth but also in the spiritual world. They will also have to lead those believers of the New Covenant to the baptism in the Holy Spirit because of ignorance or because they had been told the lie that a Christian receives the Holy Spirit automatically when he is converted. In this respect too, the congregation continues the work she began on earth, for in our dispensation she had the duty to urge the faithful of all churches and groups to experience their individual Pentecost and to become active in the heavenly places.
The trees of life therefore remain active, for they go on bearing fruit and they unceasingly produce the leaves by which the nations will be protected and healed. Although the entire new Jerusalem is made perfect and filled with the Holy Spirit by means of the congregation in it, the body of Christ keeps having a special position. Since there is no struggle in the city of God, no new kings and conquerors can develop. The privilege of spiritual suffering, battle and victory, and thus the forming of a royal priesthood, is only for those who tread in the Master's steps in this dispensation. Those who are baptized in the Holy Spirit in the new Jerusalem and reach perfection there by means of the congregation will never become pillars in the temple of God, even though their development will cause the majesty of God to fill the entire city, as John said about her: "She was having the glory of God", In this glory he descends from heaven to earth, to fulfill her glorious calling there.