alicia_charne
Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2005
- Messages
- 208
Do you have to die before you go to heaven except for when Jesus comes to fetch us?
Do you have to die before you go to heaven?
- Thread starter alicia_charne
- Start date
alicia_charne
Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2005
- Messages
- 208
Bingo.
Well done! I was shocked when I first read that....
Well done! I was shocked when I first read that....
Genesis 5:24
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. Genesis 5:24
We must die to sin in our lives and born again into his grace.Through Jesus the Christ who die for all that were on earth to the last.
In
of JESUS the Christ, Our LORD.
Yeshua :boy_hug:
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. Genesis 5:24
We must die to sin in our lives and born again into his grace.Through Jesus the Christ who die for all that were on earth to the last.
In
of JESUS the Christ, Our LORD. Yeshua :boy_hug:alicia_charne said:
Alicia do you question eternal life?
Alicia do you seek to live and never die? Do you seek God's gift of Eternal life? Do you seek to enter into the kingdom of heaven and pass over death? Below are some scriptures to view pertaining to our eternal life.
ETERNAL LIFE
The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ (Romans 6: 23). And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely (Revelation 22: 17). Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost (Titus 3: 5). He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him (Hebrews 5: 9). Lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called (1 Timothy 6: 12).
This is life eternal, to know the only true God, and Jesus Christ (John 17: 3). He that hears my word…shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life (John 5: 24). If a man keep my saying he shall never see death (John 8: 51). Whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Believe thou this? (John 11: 26).
To them who…seek for glory, honor, and immortality; God will render eternal life (Romans 2: 6-7). This mortal must put on immortality (1 Corinthians 15: 53). We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed (1 Corinthians 15: 51).
Will follow with some scriptures regarding death, and the Kingdom of God.
CQ
Alicia do you seek to live and never die? Do you seek God's gift of Eternal life? Do you seek to enter into the kingdom of heaven and pass over death? Below are some scriptures to view pertaining to our eternal life.
ETERNAL LIFE
The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ (Romans 6: 23). And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely (Revelation 22: 17). Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost (Titus 3: 5). He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him (Hebrews 5: 9). Lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called (1 Timothy 6: 12).
This is life eternal, to know the only true God, and Jesus Christ (John 17: 3). He that hears my word…shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life (John 5: 24). If a man keep my saying he shall never see death (John 8: 51). Whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Believe thou this? (John 11: 26).
To them who…seek for glory, honor, and immortality; God will render eternal life (Romans 2: 6-7). This mortal must put on immortality (1 Corinthians 15: 53). We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed (1 Corinthians 15: 51).
Will follow with some scriptures regarding death, and the Kingdom of God.
CQ
Scripts regarding death and kingdom of God
Alicia,
Here are some scriptures to view regarding death, and the Kingdom of God.
DEATH
Death and life are in the power of the tongue (Proverbs 18: 21). I have set before you life or death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may life (Deuteronomy 30: 19). God has no pleasure in the death of him that dies, turn yourselves, and live ye (Ezekiel 18: 32).
It is appointed unto men once to die (Hebrews 9: 27). For he that is dead is freed from sin (Romans 6: 7). I have said ye are gods,…but ye shall die like men (Psalms 82: 6-7). The dead know not any thing, they have no reward; the memory of them is forgotten (Ecclesiastes 9: 5). There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave (Ecclesiastes 9: 10). God is not the God of the dead, but of the living ( Matthew 22: 32).
There shall be no more death, sorrow, crying, or pain ( Revelation 21: 4). I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction (Hosea 13: 14). I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it (Matthew 16: 18). O death where is thy sting? O grave where is thy victory? (1 Corinthians 15: 55).
There is a way that seems right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death (Proverbs 16: 25). The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath (Proverbs 15: 24). The law of the wise is a fountain of Life, to depart from the snares of death (Proverbs 13: 14). The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death (1 Corinthians 15: 26).
KINGDOM OF GOD
Fear not, it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom (Luke 12: 32). Behold, the kingdom of God is within you (Luke 17: 21). But seek first the kingdom of God (Matthew 6: 33). He that overcomes shall inherit all things (Revelation 21: 7).
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven (Matthew 6: 10).
Take care,
CQ
Alicia,
Here are some scriptures to view regarding death, and the Kingdom of God.
DEATH
Death and life are in the power of the tongue (Proverbs 18: 21). I have set before you life or death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may life (Deuteronomy 30: 19). God has no pleasure in the death of him that dies, turn yourselves, and live ye (Ezekiel 18: 32).
It is appointed unto men once to die (Hebrews 9: 27). For he that is dead is freed from sin (Romans 6: 7). I have said ye are gods,…but ye shall die like men (Psalms 82: 6-7). The dead know not any thing, they have no reward; the memory of them is forgotten (Ecclesiastes 9: 5). There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave (Ecclesiastes 9: 10). God is not the God of the dead, but of the living ( Matthew 22: 32).
There shall be no more death, sorrow, crying, or pain ( Revelation 21: 4). I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction (Hosea 13: 14). I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it (Matthew 16: 18). O death where is thy sting? O grave where is thy victory? (1 Corinthians 15: 55).
There is a way that seems right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death (Proverbs 16: 25). The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath (Proverbs 15: 24). The law of the wise is a fountain of Life, to depart from the snares of death (Proverbs 13: 14). The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death (1 Corinthians 15: 26).
KINGDOM OF GOD
Fear not, it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom (Luke 12: 32). Behold, the kingdom of God is within you (Luke 17: 21). But seek first the kingdom of God (Matthew 6: 33). He that overcomes shall inherit all things (Revelation 21: 7).
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven (Matthew 6: 10).
Take care,
CQ
alicia_charne
Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2005
- Messages
- 208
thanx i know threw Christ i have eternal life for He died for my sin so that I dnt hav 2 go 2 hell and stand up threw my sins. I have been walking the raod for about 8 years now and been really serious and passionate about Christ for 3 months after accepting my calling as a pastorcranquar said:
Thanx for those verses they really really are inspiring
God bless you brother
Dying is nothing,We are in NEW JERUSALEM ,the city GOD made for us .in a blink of an eye .You don"t even have time to think.All at once ,your in perfect peace with JESUS CHRIST and ALL your family in the LORD .
I been dead 2times .Once before I was born of GOd ,once after .
Now dying is your sins is BAD ,very bad .
We all need to know GOD as FATHER and accept JESUS CHRIST as LORD and SAVIOR .Because most will not accept HIm as LORD AND MASTER .But HE is already .
But many think they will lose something?But we only GAIn here and even more there .
I been dead 2times .Once before I was born of GOd ,once after .
Now dying is your sins is BAD ,very bad .
We all need to know GOD as FATHER and accept JESUS CHRIST as LORD and SAVIOR .Because most will not accept HIm as LORD AND MASTER .But HE is already .
But many think they will lose something?But we only GAIn here and even more there .
This short time we get here ?Is the only time ,we will ever get ,To live in FAITH and work for our LORd .The payment for this?Will last forever more .We do all things as unto HIm .Once we see and understand this,life will be easier .
This is who we are NOW!1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
If we truly study this vs.We will SEE MUCH ?
This is who we are NOW!1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
If we truly study this vs.We will SEE MUCH ?
my only question...where in the bible does it say when you die you go to heaven? throughout the entire bible..death is referred to as a sleep.
I mean...when jesus was ressurected...mary attempted to caress her beloved savior...and Jesus said in clear tones....do not touch, for I have not ascended unto the father, but go and tell my disciples that I go to the my father and their father... If Jesus was not in heaven for the three days, where was he? just a thought....
I mean...when jesus was ressurected...mary attempted to caress her beloved savior...and Jesus said in clear tones....do not touch, for I have not ascended unto the father, but go and tell my disciples that I go to the my father and their father... If Jesus was not in heaven for the three days, where was he? just a thought....
Remnant,
Question: "Where was Jesus for the three days between His death and resurrection?"
Answer: 1 Peter 3:18-19 states, "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison."
The phrase, "by the Spirit," in verse 18 is exactly the same construction as the phrase, "in the flesh." So it seems best to relate the word "spirit" to the same realm as the word "flesh." The flesh and spirit are Christ's flesh and spirit. The words "made alive by (in) the spirit," point to the fact that Christ's sin-bearing and death brought about the separation of His human spirit from the Father (Matthew 27:46). The contrast is between flesh and spirit, as in Matthew 27:41 and Romans 1:3-4, and not between Christ's flesh and the Holy Spirit. When Christ's atonement for sin was completed, His spirit resumed the fellowship which had been broken.
First Peter 3:18-22 describes a necessary link between Christ's suffering (verse 18) and His glorification (verse 22). Only Peter gives specific information about what happened between these two events. The word "preached" in verse 19 is not the usual word in the New Testament to describe the preaching of the gospel. It literally means to herald a message. Jesus suffered and died on the Cross, His body being put to death, and His spirit died when He was made sin. But His spirit was made alive and He yielded it to the Father. According to Peter, sometime between His death and His resurrection Jesus made a special proclamation to "the spirits in prison."
To begin with, Peter referred to people as "souls" and not "spirits" (3:20). In the New Testament, the word "spirits" is used to describe angels or demons, not human beings; and verse 22 seems to bear out this meaning. Also, nowhere in the Bible are we told that Jesus visited hell. Acts 2:31 says that He went to "Hades" (New American Standard Bible), but "Hades" is not hell. The word "Hades" refers to the realm of the dead, a temporary place where they await the resurrection. Revelation 20:11-15 in the NASB or the New International Version give a clear distinction between the two. Hell is the permanent and final place of judgment for the lost. Hades is a temporary place.
Our Lord yielded His spirit to the Father, died, and at some time between death and resurrection, visited the realm of the dead where He delivered a message to spirit beings (probably fallen angels; see Jude 6) who were somehow related to the period before the flood in Noah's time. Verse 20 makes this clear. Peter did not tell us what He proclaimed to these imprisoned spirits, but it could not be a message of redemption since angels cannot be saved (Hebrews 2:16). It was probably a declaration of victory over Satan and his hosts (1 Peter 3:22; Colossians 2:15). Ephesians 4:8-10 also seems to indicate that Christ went to “paradise” (Luke 16:20; 23:43) and took to heaven all those who had believed in Him prior to His death. The passage doesn’t give a great amount of detail about what occurred, but most Bible scholars agree that this is what is meant by “led captivity captive.”
So, all that to say, the Bible isn’t entirely clear what exactly Christ did for the three days between His death and resurrection. It does seem, though, that He was preaching victory over the fallen angels and/or unbelievers. What we can know for sure is that Jesus was not giving people a second chance for salvation. The Bible tells us that we face judgment after death (Hebrews 9:27), not a second chance. There isn't really any definitively clear answer for what Jesus was doing for the time between His death and resurrection. Perhaps this is one of the mysteries we will understand once we reach glory.
Recommended Resource: Vital Christology Issues by Roy Zuck.
This is one study into your question. I hope that it sparks you to read and pray on this yourself.
God bless,
Nigh
Question: "Where was Jesus for the three days between His death and resurrection?"
Answer: 1 Peter 3:18-19 states, "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison."
The phrase, "by the Spirit," in verse 18 is exactly the same construction as the phrase, "in the flesh." So it seems best to relate the word "spirit" to the same realm as the word "flesh." The flesh and spirit are Christ's flesh and spirit. The words "made alive by (in) the spirit," point to the fact that Christ's sin-bearing and death brought about the separation of His human spirit from the Father (Matthew 27:46). The contrast is between flesh and spirit, as in Matthew 27:41 and Romans 1:3-4, and not between Christ's flesh and the Holy Spirit. When Christ's atonement for sin was completed, His spirit resumed the fellowship which had been broken.
First Peter 3:18-22 describes a necessary link between Christ's suffering (verse 18) and His glorification (verse 22). Only Peter gives specific information about what happened between these two events. The word "preached" in verse 19 is not the usual word in the New Testament to describe the preaching of the gospel. It literally means to herald a message. Jesus suffered and died on the Cross, His body being put to death, and His spirit died when He was made sin. But His spirit was made alive and He yielded it to the Father. According to Peter, sometime between His death and His resurrection Jesus made a special proclamation to "the spirits in prison."
To begin with, Peter referred to people as "souls" and not "spirits" (3:20). In the New Testament, the word "spirits" is used to describe angels or demons, not human beings; and verse 22 seems to bear out this meaning. Also, nowhere in the Bible are we told that Jesus visited hell. Acts 2:31 says that He went to "Hades" (New American Standard Bible), but "Hades" is not hell. The word "Hades" refers to the realm of the dead, a temporary place where they await the resurrection. Revelation 20:11-15 in the NASB or the New International Version give a clear distinction between the two. Hell is the permanent and final place of judgment for the lost. Hades is a temporary place.
Our Lord yielded His spirit to the Father, died, and at some time between death and resurrection, visited the realm of the dead where He delivered a message to spirit beings (probably fallen angels; see Jude 6) who were somehow related to the period before the flood in Noah's time. Verse 20 makes this clear. Peter did not tell us what He proclaimed to these imprisoned spirits, but it could not be a message of redemption since angels cannot be saved (Hebrews 2:16). It was probably a declaration of victory over Satan and his hosts (1 Peter 3:22; Colossians 2:15). Ephesians 4:8-10 also seems to indicate that Christ went to “paradise” (Luke 16:20; 23:43) and took to heaven all those who had believed in Him prior to His death. The passage doesn’t give a great amount of detail about what occurred, but most Bible scholars agree that this is what is meant by “led captivity captive.”
So, all that to say, the Bible isn’t entirely clear what exactly Christ did for the three days between His death and resurrection. It does seem, though, that He was preaching victory over the fallen angels and/or unbelievers. What we can know for sure is that Jesus was not giving people a second chance for salvation. The Bible tells us that we face judgment after death (Hebrews 9:27), not a second chance. There isn't really any definitively clear answer for what Jesus was doing for the time between His death and resurrection. Perhaps this is one of the mysteries we will understand once we reach glory.
Recommended Resource: Vital Christology Issues by Roy Zuck.
This is one study into your question. I hope that it sparks you to read and pray on this yourself.
God bless,
Nigh
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.....I forget the Scripture but there you have it....Once your body dies your spirit leaves and you are present with the Lord.......But does one have to die before going to Heaven.....I say no....many will not die an earthly death when Christ comes to Rapture the church....But I feel all must die a spiritual death as Paul so often mentioned...We die to ourselves as Paul writes....I died.....I no longer live...But Christ lives in me....As long as we are living for ourselves Christ is of no affect in our lives....So Paul was saying He died when Christ died on the cross....He identifyed himself with Jesus on the cross....Now Paul lives by giving his life to Jesus.......Jesus now has full rein in his life......and all his writings showed that.
I hope this helps............................
I hope this helps............................
laterunner
Member
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2005
- Messages
- 245
For what reason are we to be ''raptured''???
Well I will try and answer that....From reading the Bible we find a few instances where a so called rapture takes place....1st is Noah....Noah and his family were thee only righteous people on the earth in his day....So God told him what He was going to do.....Flood the Earth and wipe out all of mankind....but Noah was spared.....why....not because he was righteous....but he had Faith in God....for a 120 years Noah warned the people of the pending flood by God.....but no one listened.....sound familiar....2nd we have inpending destruction on some sin citys called Sodom n Gohmora...you know the story of Gods conversation with Abraham....anyway only Lot and his family were not engaging in the sinful activates that were taking place....so angels were sent in as men and took out lots family.....they were spared that judgment....but for Lots wife well we all know what happened there......So here we have 2 raptures that took place....God taking out his own before judgement falls.....3rd....in the book of Revelation....the church which is us....the Body of Christ on Earth is spoke of in the first 4 chapters of Revelation......Then the church is not memtioned again until chapter 19.....In between chapters 4 and 19 are the trumpet and bowl judgments....Gods own remanent us born again in Christ will not go through these judgments.....What confuses people is the fact that the word Rapture is not in the Bible anywhere.....Enoch was taken.......Jesus spoke of the Rapture in Matthew I forget the chapter but He goes on the say 2 were in the field.....1 was taken the other left......So once the church is gone from the earth....via the Rapture.....the 2 witnesses will come back and evangilize the earth like never before.....many a debate on who theses two are.....but my guess is Moses and Elijah.....not because they were the 2 that were talking with Jesus at the mount of Olives when Jesus was transfigured....but because they are the only two that did not complete there ministry.....just my thoughts there.....Judgment always comes upon the wicked.....there is no reason for Born Again Believers to be here.....we have already been judged in Christ!
...........................................................................Selah
...........................................................................Selah
Nigh said:
Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn
Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Clearly, Christ preaching to the captives in prison took place before he even died.
Lars7 said:
How did you come to that conclusion?
Where does it say that the breath of life has a conscience?
REally, all we are two components. The body of dust and the breath of life which God gives. death is the separation of the breath of life from the body leaving the body to return to dust.
laterunner
Member
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2005
- Messages
- 245
''So called rapture'' ''modern'' concept & therefore not biblical?????? Why do we have armour?? Why are we the army of God??What battler are we in??Are the weapon we have just for this place& the battles we face every day??
Remnant,
I believe that there is a conscience being within me, that does not require the life of my body. Yet I am given a body to live in a state of awareness on the planet Earth. Now, one of the reasons that I believe this is because I have been conscious out side of my body. It was a very spiritual experience, with the awareness of other spiritual beings, in “another place”.
[edited by moderator/ use scripture only]
Nevertheless, I still believe what the Bible says, “…Those who live and believe, shall never die…” (John 11:26)
My question is, who is ready to fully believe the Word of God that says…“God has no pleasure in the death of him that dies, turn yourselves, and live ye” (Ezekiel 18: 32); “There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave (Ecclesiastes (9: 10); “The law of the wise is a fountain of Life, to depart from the snares of death (Proverbs 13: 14); “The last ENEMY that shall be destroyed is death” (1 Corinthians 15: 26). The question is who can hold on to their faith in the Word of God and prevail?
I have been reminded of much, and have learned much from this thread. I thank each of you for your input.
CQ
I believe that there is a conscience being within me, that does not require the life of my body. Yet I am given a body to live in a state of awareness on the planet Earth. Now, one of the reasons that I believe this is because I have been conscious out side of my body. It was a very spiritual experience, with the awareness of other spiritual beings, in “another place”.
[edited by moderator/ use scripture only]
Nevertheless, I still believe what the Bible says, “…Those who live and believe, shall never die…” (John 11:26)
My question is, who is ready to fully believe the Word of God that says…“God has no pleasure in the death of him that dies, turn yourselves, and live ye” (Ezekiel 18: 32); “There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave (Ecclesiastes (9: 10); “The law of the wise is a fountain of Life, to depart from the snares of death (Proverbs 13: 14); “The last ENEMY that shall be destroyed is death” (1 Corinthians 15: 26). The question is who can hold on to their faith in the Word of God and prevail?
I have been reminded of much, and have learned much from this thread. I thank each of you for your input.
CQ
Last edited by a moderator:
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2004
- Messages
- 17,078
Pardon me for saying this if it sounds blunt but let's try to put it this way.
Does it matter if your body dies before you go to Heaven or "have to die"? No it does not. No matter if your physical self dies or not, you still have the free gift of Salvation in Jesus Christ where you will be born agian spiritually and given eternal life with GOD in Heaven. You have to die to self and be born again of the Spirit of Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
John 3:3
In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. "
Romans 8:11
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Does it matter if your body dies before you go to Heaven or "have to die"? No it does not. No matter if your physical self dies or not, you still have the free gift of Salvation in Jesus Christ where you will be born agian spiritually and given eternal life with GOD in Heaven. You have to die to self and be born again of the Spirit of Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
John 3:3
In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. "
Romans 8:11
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.
