Faith verses Mysticism

[NetChaplain]

Desire and love are two very distinct things. Desire supposes the capacity of enjoying the thing which one desires, namely, the spiritual affections which as to the root of their nature, have God for their Object. Love, on the contrary, is in full possession of the object of desire. It is no longer just a want, but the enjoyment, the appreciation of the object itself, which is our delight.

Now mysticism, while it greatly exalts the feelings, yet never goes beyond desire (desire alone doesn’t possess, only wants—NC); whereas simple Christianity, at the same time that it gives the knowledge of salvation, puts us in full possession of the love of God—it is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit. I know that my Father love me, even as He loves His beloved Son. That love has saved me. It is He who desired me! His love had need of me, and that love has shone forth in the Lord Jesus in all its perfection. I contemplate that love in peace; I love and worship the Lord Jesus. I abide in Him and Him in me—I know Him as my very Christian Life.

The mystic’s idea of love is erroneous in its very nature. It is something of man which craves satisfaction, instead of being something of God which satisfies the heart perfectly, deeply and infinitely. Hence those extraordinary efforts to abase and blacken oneself, and that habit of speaking ill of oneself, as if a saved soul could be something before a Savior, instead of being overpowered and forgetting oneself in the presence of such great love, and of enjoying it.

Is it when we are truly transported in the presence of our Father, and when we contemplate His glorious beauty in His Son, that we can be occupied with the hideous images which hide themselves in the heart of man? Never! We think of our Father. He has given us the right and the affection to do so by that grace which has really abolished and condemned all that we were, at Calvary (He knew all who would be receiving grace at Christ’s expiation for their sin nature—NC), when we were living outside of the Lord Jesus, when we were in the fallen Adam.

My Father has satisfied the claims of His holiness, His majesty, His righteousness and His love in the work and presence in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. He has found His rest there, and I have also found mine. The mystic never has it, because he vainly seeks for in man that which he ought only to seek for in God, who had accomplished all, before he ever thought of it. Therefore the mystic seeks for a disinterested love; but where does he seek it? In himself, in man.

Is it that the deep affections, which the Cross awakened in one, have ceased, because it is no longer a need that overwhelms us? No; conscious interfered, and put me in my right place; that which my Father has done, what He has given me, peace, is now established in my soul and can no longer be disturbed. I have divine leisure, because nothing is uncertain in my relationship with my Father; nothing hinders me from contemplating all that is perfect in the Object of my affections, without being occupied with myself.

The mystic humbles himself, because he still hopes to find good in himself; he is occupied with this, as if there could be any, and alas, he finds nothing but evil. The believer is humble, which is a very different things, because he has given up the thought of any discovery of good in himself (as to producing anything salvific, even in new self, which is only a product of redemption, and that, forever—NC), in order to love and worship the One in whom there is only that which is good. He understands and accepts that love toward himself, namely, the Lord Jesus has died, and that he has died and risen with Him.


—J N Darby (1800-1882)





MJS devotional excerpt for Feb 11


“It is not the design of God to deprive His children of happiness, but only to pour the cup of bitterness into that happiness which the believer has in anything outside of Christ.” -F.F.

“Everything that tries us, which is a check upon us that causes exercise of heart, and makes us sensible of weakness in ourselves, is of the nature of chastisement (child-training). It may come in the way of difficulties in the path of faith; or in the shape of such trials and sorrows as are common to all men—loss of property, loss of health, or bereavement; or it may be as the governmental consequences of sin; but in one way or other all have it. It is ‘for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness’ (Heb. 12:10). That is, it serves to break down that which is not of God in us, that the life of the Lord Jesus might be made manifest.” -C.A.C.

None But The Hungry Heart

 

[GodB4Us]

The difference between a mystic and a born again of the Spirit believer is that after salvation, the believers never need to be filled with the Spirit again as we are always Spirit-filled since salvation as a testimony from God that we are saved.

Matthew 5: 6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

John 6: 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Matthew 9: 17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

 

[GodB4Us]

Now mysticism, while it greatly exalts the feelings, yet never goes beyond desire (desire alone doesn’t possess, only wants—NC); whereas simple Christianity, at the same time that it gives the knowledge of salvation, puts us in full possession of the love of God—it is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

The difference between a mystic and a born again of the Spirit believer is that after salvation, the believers never need to be filled with the Spirit again as we are always Spirit-filled since salvation as a testimony from God that we are saved.

Matthew 5: 6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

John 6: 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Matthew 9: 17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Whenever a believer experience a phenomenon later in life after they were born again, they should apply John's testing of the spirits in 1 John 4:1-6. By knowing Jesus Christ is in us, then that spirit felt outside of us in the worship place and/or even coming over us in filling us again and again and again, is not the Holy Spirit, but the spirit of the antichrist. That is also why that supernatural tongue it brings does not come with interpretation but is found in the world as gibberish nonsense. This is why John says to test the tongues it brings too in 1 John 4:5-6 because the real God's gift of tongues is for speaking unto the people as Paul gave the bottom line on what God's gift of tongues was for; 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 and not to be seen as a sign or proof to believers about having received that other baptism with the Holy Ghost nor proof that God is calling them into the ministry per 1 Corinthians 14:22.

The irony is that the believers are not hearing themselves because after having experienced that phenomenon, they are hungering for more of God like the mystics, and giving another calling and another gospel.

They separate themselves from this saying and judgment that we are all supposed to share as that body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

There are many believers today that testify to having another drink of the One Spirit and wind up assuming because that tongue comes with no interpretation, they assume it is for private use and even go on to list all the benefits for private use like self edification, giving praise, worship, thanksgiving, & even the Holy Spirit praying for them as if they have no need for other members of the body of Christ and yet Paul needed someone to interpret that tongue in the assembly so he could understand it and actually be beneficial to himself.

1 Corinthians 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

None of the gifts are meant for private use but to profit the body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

If the mystics came into churches today, would Christian know the difference between the mystics' wantonness and the believer's hunger for more of God in pertaining to the supernatural? Would their supernatural tongue be sounding the same as the believer's tongue that they assumed is for private use because it is not a language of men?

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Thessalonians 2: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Isaiah 8: 19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

John 7: 7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

Matthew 12: 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

Hold fast to what? Is this below is what we are all supposed to agree on?

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Dare the churches in the latter days examine themselves in the faith to make sure they are not led astray by seducing spirits? Dare we prove all thing & abstain from all appearances of evil of looking like the mystics?

John 14: 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2 Corinthians 13: 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[NetChaplain]

The difference between a mystic and a born again of the Spirit believer is that after salvation, the believers never need to be filled with the Spirit again as we are always Spirit-filled since salvation as a testimony from God that we are saved.

Matthew 5: 6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

John 6: 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Matthew 9: 17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Hi, and thanks for the reply! My understanding of mysticism is that it's merely carnal, like many other contemporary erroneous systems claiming Christianity but are not truly of Christ.

 

[GodB4Us]

Hi, and thanks for the reply! My understanding of mysticism is that it's merely carnal, like many other contemporary erroneous systems claiming Christianity but are not truly of Christ.

Hi Brother,

You do not believe mysticism is supernatural at all?

Have you ever heard of Khundalini, an Eastern mysticism? This video below shows what is happening supernaturally in the Christian churches and compares the supernatural with Khundalini.

 

[NetChaplain]

Hi Brother,

You do not believe mysticism is supernatural at all?

No negativity intended, but to me, sensuality (carnality; worldliness) is not spirituality.

 

[GodB4Us]

No negativity intended, but to me, sensuality (carnality; worldliness) is not spirituality.

You are referring to walking in the Spirit, correct?

I do want to point out that Christians can be carnal, even considered babes in Christ and still have the holy Spirit in them, but just not abiding in Jesus Christ in their walk which is why we are warned not to grieve the Holy Spirit; Ephesians 4:30

1 Corinthians 3:1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

That is one example. Then there are the other more serious form of carnality when willfully living in sin with no intention to repent.

When a believer is foolish and begins sowing to the works of the flesh in reaping corruption ( Galatians 6:7-8 ), they defile the temple of God which is their physical bodies ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ). If they do not get that wood, stubble, and hay off of that foundation before the Bridegroom comes, then He will deny them by those iniquities on that foundation that denied Him ( Titus 1:16 & Matthew 7:21-27 ), but even though left behind to die ( Revelation 2:18-25 ) as castaways, aka reprobates as disqualified from the race to not receive a crown ( 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 ) , He still abides in them, even in former believers ( 2 Timothy 2:11-13 ) . When they die, their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven ( 2 Corinthians 5:7-11 ) awaiting for their resurrection ( Revelation 7:9-17 ) after the great tribulation to serve the King of kings on earth from all over the world ( Revelation 20:1-6 ) as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth that did not depart from iniquity ( 2 Timothy 2:18-21 ). So like the prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance for wild living and although he can never get it back, he is still son.

 

[Bethel]

I would have to strongly disagree with everything the OP has described , as their idea of a CM.
In fact, here is the reality.
All the greatest seekers of God, have ended up, as Mystics.
ALL, without exception, if they lived long enough....Some died too early to achieve it.

St Francis
Paul The Apostle
Jean Guyon
Hildegard of Bingen
Mary of Egypt
and on and on and on throughout the history of the body of Christ...these beautiful Spirit Filled Saints, basically glowed with God's power and Christ's Eternal Life.

In Fact, here is the reality..NET Chaplin..... as your idea is exactly the opposite regarding "what is".... a Christian Mystic, ....a real one.
Your description fits a Gnostic, not a Christian Mystic,.
Listen....reader.....Christian Mysticism, is the advanced level of "new creation in Christ"..= "as many as be perfect", "Christ always gives me the Victory"..>"it is not I who lives but Christ who lives through me".. = Paul Teaches. and that is Paul the Mystic. Paul the Revelator.
And what did Paul the Revelator, reveal? Most of the NEW TESTAMENT that He wrote, and all the Church Doctrine.
That's Paul the Christian Mystic.

Now, Here are the levels of real christian discipleship, as it progresses "in Christ".

1.) Born again. (Salvation Day)
2.) Babe in Christ (New Believer)
3.) Working out your salvation (Study to show yourself approved level)
4.) As many as be perfect (Mind of Christ Gained and sustained)
5.) Christian Mysticism attained
6.) I have finished my Course (Earthly ministry finished)
7.) Christian Martyr (Martyr For Christ )

Most believers are : #2-#3.....and they never get past this spiritual status. because they are FAITH destroyed as this verse explains....the why and the how.
Hebrews 13:9

Now reader,
i greatly implore you to read the Bio's of all those i named in the List.
It'll do you good to read about the lives of those who really really were "in the world but not of it". "Christian Mystics"

 

[GodB4Us]

I would have to strongly disagree with everything the OP has described , as their idea of a CM.
In fact, here is the reality.
All the greatest seekers of God, have ended up, as Mystics.
ALL, without exception, if they lived long enough....Some died too early to achieve it.

St Francis
Paul The Apostle
Jean Guyon
Hildegard of Bingen
Mary of Egypt
and on and on and on throughout the history of the body of Christ...these beautiful Spirit Filled Saints, basically glowed with God's power and Christ's Eternal Life.

I did not get that impression that the OP was about Christian Mystics but rather the difference between the mystics and Christians.

Paul would refute that notion by his own words.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

One could say that was why God gave Paul that thorn in the flesh so we would not think of him higher than we ought to think because of all the revelations and visions that came through Paul.

2 Corinthians 12:6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. 11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.

In Fact, here is the reality..NET Chaplin..... as your idea is exactly the opposite regarding "what is".... a Christian Mystic, ....a real one.
Your description fits a Gnostic, not a Christian Mystic,.

I would submit the notion that Gnostics were those who discarded scripture and sought self edification by tongues, hence the name for what Gnostics were known for; hidden or secret knowledge. It is no wonder that the oldest manuscripts were found in the region of Alexandria, where poetic licensing was known, and even one codex was found in a wastebasket. As it is, there should be no such thing as Christian mystics but that the Gnostics were the Christian mystics, always hungering for more of God, for more of that secret & hidden knowledge, self edification by tongues. I believe Paul was rebuking this practice even here.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Maybe some one can explain that verses 24-26 does not apply to verse 16, but it does make sense to me as applying to tongues for private use as many claim self edification even though there is no interpretation to understand it; thus hidden or secret knowledge as the Gnostics are known for.

Listen....reader.....Christian Mysticism, is the advanced level of "new creation in Christ"..= "as many as be perfect", "Christ always gives me the Victory"..>"it is not I who lives but Christ who lives through me".. = Paul Teaches. and that is Paul the Mystic. Paul the Revelator.
And what did Paul the Revelator, reveal? Most of the NEW TESTAMENT that He wrote, and all the Church Doctrine.
That's Paul the Christian Mystic.

Now, Here are the levels of real christian discipleship, as it progresses "in Christ".

1.) Born again. (Salvation Day)
2.) Babe in Christ (New Believer)
3.) Working out your salvation (Study to show yourself approved level)
4.) As many as be perfect (Mind of Christ Gained and sustained)
5.) Christian Mysticism attained
6.) I have finished my Course (Earthly ministry finished)
7.) Christian Martyr (Martyr For Christ )

Most believers are : #2-#3.....and they never get past this spiritual status. because they are FAITH destroyed as this verse explains....the why and the how.
Hebrews 13:9

Now reader,
i greatly implore you to read the Bio's of all those i named in the List.
It'll do you good to read about the lives of those who really really were "in the world but not of it". "Christian Mystics"

Christians should avoid appearing like the mystics or even as the Gnostics & seek their edification by the written word and pray normally so they know what they have prayed for to give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers.

I would say that #5 is not true since in #4 there is no attaining perfection in this life, and that Christian mysticism is actually saved believers that have fallen away from the faith.

Philippians 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Paul was still running that race til he died as this race can never end in this life because Paul was running to be accepted by Him as well as obtaining that crown but also to avoid being a castaway by not subjecting to the infirmity in his flesh.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Bethel]

I did not get that impression that the OP was about Christian Mystics but rather the difference between the mystics and Christians.

"Christian Mystics" are believers who are fully developed spiritually.

It can be the case that they are gifted with revelations, that only a few are given.........chosen by God for this..

Joan of Arc
Hildegard of Bingen.

others.

 

[NetChaplain]

You are referring to walking in the Spirit, correct?

I do want to point out that Christians can be carnal, even considered babes in Christ and still have the holy Spirit in them, but just not abiding in Jesus Christ in their walk which is why we are warned not to grieve the Holy Spirit; Ephesians 4:30

Many immature Christians grieve the Spirit until they mature, and I believe everyone reborn, given time will mature in the walk of Christ's image (Phl 2:13). I think it should be known also that "grieving" the Spirit is not the same as "resisting" Him (Act 7:51). The prior can be done only by immature believers who will eventually mature; the latter can be done only by the unsaved.

All immature babes-in-Christ will mature due to the Father's "work" (Phl 2:13). The 3rd Chapter of 1 Corinthians declares that those in verse 1 are also those in verse 23 (unless we're not discussing the same issue).

there are the other more serious form of carnality when willfully living in sin with no intention to repent.

It's my understanding that those who sin willfully are still unsaved (Heb 10:26) and that Gal 6:8 is differentiating between the saved and unsaved, because the saved no longer lives after the sin nature ("sows to the flesh"). Scripture is always showing how to identify believers and unbelievers, as unbelievers can only temporarily profess Christianity, and only believers remain in the Christian lifestyle.

 

[Bethel]

Many immature Christians grieve the Spirit until they mature, and I believe everyone reborn, given time will mature in the walk of Christ's image (Phl 2:13). I think it should be known also that "grieving" the Spirit is not the same as "resisting" Him (Act 7:51). The prior can be done only by immature believers who will eventually mature; the latter can be done only by the unsaved.

All immature babes-in-Christ will mature due to the Father's "work" (Phl 2:13). The 3rd Chapter of 1 Corinthians declares that those in verse 1 are also those in verse 23 (unless we're not discussing the same issue).

It's my understanding that those who sin willfully are still unsaved (Heb 10:26) and that Gal 6:8 is differentiating between the saved and unsaved, because the saved no longer lives after the sin nature ("sows to the flesh"). Scripture is always showing how to identify believers and unbelievers, as unbelievers can only temporarily profess Christianity, and only believers remain in the Christian lifestyle.

The only proof you are going to heaven is if you are "born again".

LIfestyle, ...or trying to "be like Christ'........ or "bearing Christian Fruit".............all this can be faked.

Does not the Devil read the bible?
He's had more time with it and the "greek texts" than anyone.....
He KNOWS what Believers want to hear, and want to see......and he can FAKE IT, using his Ministers.......as they "sound like" Christians.......of COURSE.

They all Speak : Christianese.

So, the only proof of Christianity ....is that you are BORN AGAIN................now just water baptized.........but BORN AGAIN.

 

[GodB4Us]

"Christian Mystics" are believers who are fully developed spiritually.

It can be the case that they are gifted with revelations, that only a few are given.........chosen by God for this..

Joan of Arc
Hildegard of Bingen.

others.

I wouldn't call the apostle Paul nor the apostle John mystics les there be confusion of being associated with the mystics in the world.

Prophet is more an apt Biblical term to use and it separates from the mystics and the diviners in the world.

 

[Bethel]

I wouldn't call the apostle Paul nor the apostle John mystics les there be confusion of being associated with the mystics in the world.

Is that how you see it?

"mystics" .......to you means....>"palm reader".......or "slight of hand".....or "magician", or......>"Tarot Card reader". ?

Im speaking on a Christian form about "Christian Mystics" on a Thread that is talking about the same.

So, when i speak about Christian Mystics, i am talking about the mystical spiritual application that is associated with being born again spiritually , as "One with God".

Like this..

"" As CHRIST is..........so are the born again.......in THIS world"...


See that?
That is what im talking about.

 

[GodB4Us]

Many immature Christians grieve the Spirit until they mature, and I believe everyone reborn, given time will mature in the walk of Christ's image (Phl 2:13). I think it should be known also that "grieving" the Spirit is not the same as "resisting" Him (Act 7:51). The prior can be done only by immature believers who will eventually mature; the latter can be done only by the unsaved.

All immature babes-in-Christ will mature due to the Father's "work" (Phl 2:13). The 3rd Chapter of 1 Corinthians declares that those in verse 1 are also those in verse 23 (unless we're not discussing the same issue).

I can agree.

It's my understanding that those who sin willfully are still unsaved (Heb 10:26)

Do consider that the scriptures says God will have vengeance on His people and so I believe they are still saved.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

and that Gal 6:8 is differentiating between the saved and unsaved, because the saved no longer lives after the sin nature ("sows to the flesh"). Scripture is always showing how to identify believers and unbelievers, as unbelievers can only temporarily profess Christianity, and only believers remain in the Christian lifestyle.

Scripture has always been used to discern who is abiding in Him from those that are not. There are 2 folds of sheep that Jesus has; the ones that follow His voice and the ones that follow the stranger's voice, those that went astray and I dare see that stranger's voice as tongues for private use only because it does not come with interpretation. That is what those who go astray by another way, climbing around the Son as if the holy Spirit is Another Go to God to come to God the Father by..

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

John 14: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus said that in spite of the sheep that went astray following a stranger's voice, He MUST bring them as they are of the other fold that did not follow His voice.

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

I see wayward saints that get left behind to die, when their spirits will be with the Lord to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation, that they will literally hear His voice as the King of kings and be of the one fold & one shepherd.

Why? Because He will not lose none of all the Father has given Him ( John 6:37-40 ) as they will testify to the power of God in salvation for all those who believe in Him, even in His name; John 1:12-13 This is why He is warning believers to be ready or else, even former believers are called to still depart from iniquity, 2 Timothy 2:18-21 because He still abides in them ( 2 Timothy 2:10-13 ) so they can obtain the "eternal glory" that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus which is to be that vessel unto honor in His House, the vessels of gold & silver, to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven in His honor and to His glory as our crowns are His crowning achievements in us for why we would cast our crowns at His feet..

 

[Bethel]

Why? Because He will not lose none of all the Father has given Him

You can be a terrible Christian..........but you can never stop being Born again.
Why?
Because your behavior didn't cause you to be born again., so, your behavior has no effect on being born again.

BEHAVIOR, only affects discipleship, not BIRTH..........and being born again, is not discipleship......its a SPIRITUAL BIRTH.

 

[GodB4Us]

Is that how you see it?

"mystics" .......to you means....>"palm reader".......or "slight of hand".....or "magician", or......>"Tarot Card reader". ?

Im speaking on a Christian form about "Christian Mystics" on a Thread that is talking about the same.

So, when i speak about Christian Mystics, i am talking about the mystical spiritual application that is associated with being born again spiritually , as "One with God".

Like this..

"" As CHRIST is..........so are the born again.......in THIS world"...


See that?
That is what im talking about.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Should a Christian be identified as a Christian medium or a Christian mobster? That is why I believe we should steer clear of the term mystics when the world is familiar with that term that they know what the mystics is referring to as of the world.

 

[GodB4Us]

You can be a terrible Christian..........but you can never stop being Born again.
Why?
Because your behavior didn't cause you to be born again., so, your behavior has no effect on being born again.

BEHAVIOR, only affects discipleship, not BIRTH..........and being born again, is not discipleship......its a SPIRITUAL BIRTH.

I agree but not abiding in Him & His words as His disciple will affect how He will receive us or not when He comes as the Bridegroom. Those left behind for being in unrepentant iniquity, are still saved, but they can never be that vessel unto honor in His House once the door to the Marriage Supper is shut.

 

[Bethel]

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
Should a Christian be identified as a Christian medium or a Christian mobster?

The best Christians, the most prolific, were all "Christian Mystics"

St Francis.
Hildegard of Bingen
John of the Cross.
Paul The Apostle.


So, its your mind that can only see the word "mystic" as the world's definition of a magician.
But in fact, "Christian Mystic" is a level of Christianity, that is this.........Paul teaching....."as many as be PERFECT".

See that 'Perfect"........that is perfect in renewed mind, and theological understanding, and walking in the Spirit as this....>"Christ always gives me the Victory".

Thats a "Christian Mystic"........ Its a advanced spirituality, that is gained over time, or given all at once.

Some Saints were and are touched by the hand of God, in a special way, and that can't be duplicated., as that is a "endowment of Power"....as special enabling of and by the Spirit.
Other's, became this elevated state of Christian by truly becoming this....>"in the world but not of the world".

 

[NetChaplain]

So, the only proof of Christianity ....is that you are BORN AGAIN................now just water baptized.........but BORN AGAIN.

True, what is seen is not proof, just possible indications or "fruit" (Mat 12:33) to one another. But each will know for themselves by the indwelling Spirit ( Rom 8:16), just as there is certainty concerning a bad tree if it continues to manifest bad fruit! Only God can know the certainty of everyone's heart.