God Creating Hardships

[Curtis]

Jesus never sinned, as fear is the absence off faith, and every thing done without faith is a sin. The book of Revelation says that all the fearful will be cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Mar 4:40 And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?

Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[amadeus2]

Error once again.
It is you that says I say that.
I say we can overcome But it's NOT INSTANT

Hmmm, not instantaneous because...?

Because someone is holding back and it is not God. A person may really be sinless in the moment but not yet an overcomer as Jesus was an overcomer. Sinless in the moment because the temptations are still assailing him at times and he can still choose at any point to go his own way instead of God's Way. The one who overcome all as Jesus did will no longer even be tempted. Jesus reached that point, I believe, before he went to the cross.

Someone said earlier on here that God is Not in control of everything and in a sense that is true, but ultimately it is not true.

"So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." Isaiah 55:11

God spoke and it happened or is happening or will happen according to His Word.

" And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." Gen 1:26-28

God had given us the authority, the dominion over the creatures including the creature that we are. That is our "free will": the right to choose His Way or not. If we do not in any point at all the dominion will remain with us and in that measure we will not be an overcomer. We will still in that measure be directing ourselves... and while we do that we will be failing... which eventually will include more sinning. Jeremiah clarifies the problem for us:

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

It is that retaining or retaking of our own reins that is the problem. Free will: to follow God or to follow myself. Some will go only part way or only temporarily in their relinquishing of their own will in favor of His. God will wink at this for a while... but eventually it must be His Way only. Who can do that?

Jesus came to make it possible for anyone to do it, but it comes by total surrender. Who has surrendered finally and completely?

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.: "John 17:11

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Matt 7:7

 

[Curtis]

When it comes to God dealing with the devil "directly", God has given to the Church power, authority over all the works of the devil. The Lord God will not do it for us as we find in this example of the apostle Paul.........

2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

The Lord did not take away this messenger of Satan which Paul wanted. I am so thankful that God left in scripture how the apostle Paul was not born knowing everything. He had grow in Wisdom and understanding just like every one else. This is the same man who said.....

Php 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

Yet, Paul worried about the Church all the time. He worried over all the Churches. He learned later to not be "careful for nothing", but prayed to God, and made his request known.

Paul learned.....

1Pe 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
1Pe 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
1Pe 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith,

Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

"Indirectly" for our benefit God restrains the devil when we are being obedient to his will that has nothing to do with dealing directly with the devil. For example......

Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Mal 3:11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Jesus never sinned, as fear is the absence off faith, and every thing done without faith is a sin. The book of Revelation says that all the fearful will be cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Mar 4:40 And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?

Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

I believe that you've carried it too far. Looking at Mark 4:40 would give that impression if you see them as one question, or that one leads to the other. I'm sorry I don't read it that, but only see it as two different conditions. "Fear" and Faithless". Then looking at Revelation 21:8 implies a condition or a constant state of fear, and not just a momentary occurrence.

Understand that there is a healthy "fear" spoken of in Scripture. That would be a fear of God. Which there are many verses one can find on this. I could include them all here but they are not difficult to find. I also, think on the following verse found in the Book of Revelation with your thought in mind.

"And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:"

Surely John did not sin here, by having a moment of fear? I also, don't believe it was faithless of John to have reacted as he did. If it had been me, I'm quite sure I would have needed a change of clothes after the initial shock, but then again maybe that is the type of fear you are speaking of that would be considered faithless?

Sometimes English in using one word, that other languages may use different words to convey certain nuances can limit the intent of the original writers and so God.

I do thank-you for the thought on this. I hadn't in truth looked at a condition of fear as being a sign of faithlessness on the part of the individual. It surely can, but a continual one and not a momentary one that faith overcomes!!!

If many mistakes apologies. Have to go back to work. Lunch break just isn't long enough to review!!!!
God bless.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[At Peace]

Then you best grab a hold of yourself Love you brother. You gave me a smile this morning when I needed it!
Let's see what happened. You might have had that thought, but it all comes from my response to Brother Bill which relevant part I highlight below.
You then quote me Hebrews 5:7, with no explanation. Which only makes it clear that you disagree with what I said and agreed with Brother Bill quote above.

Yes, I sometimes will reply to a post not originally addressed to me. (Would that make it a "ply" instead of a "reply"?)

o me you just carried on the conversation directed to Brother Bill and were taking the position stated that "Fear" was the cause of the "sweating of blood or drops of blood". So, what you're now telling me is that you also, don't completely agree with Brother Bills' words and have no problem with my position as previously stated in my writings?

Correcto.

Understanding so we can be clear. My position was never that our Lord did not have "Fear", only......I won't repeat what I've already written. But you get my point.
Thank-you brother for responding. You can let go now
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC Nick<><

We are on the same wave-length in regards to Jesus having felt fear.
I bet He felt a bit of fear too, when the crowd was sweeping Him toward the brow of the hill to throw Him over it . (Luke 4)
God is good!

 

[Curtis]

"And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:"

I respect your opinion on fear as everyone should discern for themselves based on scripture, and teaching of the Holy Spirit. When Jesus said to John "fear not" that does not mean that John was in fear, only that he should not let fear come upon him.
on the other hand Jesus said....

Mar 4:40 And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?

these people were already in fear, not that they should not fear.

God has not given to us a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

God has not given to us a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind.

Amen for perfect love cast out ALL Fear.

Fear is Perverted Faith

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." Isaiah 55:11

Exactly His Words.
When we His Believers Speak, Pray and do His Word He honors it.

When we make Gods Word our Words then He will do what we say.

But if our words do not line up with His Word, then He does not Cary them out.

There are Kingdom Laws in place and we are governed by them. There is Kingdom or in The Kingdom of God.
Blessings

 

[Christ4Ever]

I respect your opinion on fear as everyone should discern for themselves based on scripture, and teaching of the Holy Spirit. When Jesus said to John "fear not" that does not mean that John was in fear, only that he should not let fear come upon him.
on the other hand Jesus said....

Mar 4:40 And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?

these people were already in fear, not that they should not fear.

God has not given to us a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind.

Up front I will tell you that I'm not a linguist. Took me awhile just to try to get this straight in my head without the help of the Holy Spirit it would not have happened! Thank-you God! Still, in some ways I'm still befuddled when jumping from verse to verse.

However, I do the following in the hope that you will take care of how one tosses around Scripture verses and tie a single word, in this case "Fear" to "Sin" or "Faithlessness". English has its limitations when being translated from the Greek and we need to remember that, especially if we intend to accuse.

Fear used in Scripture:

phobeō - G5399 (Matt 10:28; Revelation 1:17; 1 John 4:8)

deilos - G1169 (Mark 4:40, Revelation 21:8)

deilia - G1167 (which comes from G1169 or deilos) (2 Timothy 1:7 which you quote above)

phobos -G5401 (2 Corinthians 7:1,15; Ephesians 6:5; Philippians 2:12)

aphobōs -G870 (Interesting because this actually means "without fear", which is why in English "without" is also used in the verse so it matches the meaning of the Greek word). (Philippians 1:14)

eulabeia - G2124 (Hebrews 12:28)

eulabeomai - G2125 (Hebrews 11:7, in speaking of Noah being moved by fear. I guess fear can be a good motivating factor!)

ekphobos - G1630 (Hebrews 12:21 which also uses G1510 below. Interesting that it's possible that the translators weren't sure? Humm)

eimi - G1510 (Now these last two are within the same verse which is Hebrews 12:21 which is talking about Moses "I exceedingly fear" )

So, with all that being said. It really depends on the usage in the Greek to determine the significance of it in the English. I mean really attaching a general meaning of "fear" to every verse in Scripture and giving it a "Sin/Faithlessness" makes 2 Corinthians 7:1 a real head scratcher when one seeks the significance of trying to perfect holiness! By the way this usage of fear in the Greek in this verse is phobos.

Fear isn't always a conscious decision brother on the part of the person. It can fall upon a person so quickly that rational though is no where to be found, but in Jesus. I've had fear take a hold of me that left me immobilized. If not for shouting out the name of Jesus. I do believe I'd still be at my desk till this day. Maybe, if I had not acted or acted in an improper way (I correlate the servant who buried his one talent, out of fear in the improper way of acting.) it could have become a sinful act or even unfaithfulness on my part. Thank-fully, the Holy Spirit rose within me to provide the strength needed to overcome this moment of fear. Glory be to God.

I wonder if being courageous is just a person who has fear, but overcomes it and just takes that first step into the unknown in faith.

Praying that you will always be able to stand my brother.

With the love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[KingJ]

This is a continuation of a back and forth type conversation, and i invite everyone else. Please join.

I believe my opponents view is God isnt causing situations for His own Glory.

I used the scripture of Jesus curing a blind man. Jesus was asked whose sin caused him to be blind, And Jesus responded by saying, no ones sin caused his blindness. It is for the Glory of God.

I do understand, i think, that my opponents is stating that God isnt an egotist. And i agree with that.

But i believe what is perfect to Gods eyes is not what we deem perfect in our own.

My example is a person born handicap. If everyone in the world was always perfect at birth, we would have limited compassion for those who are handicap.

A person born this way, experiences hardships. A type i will never have to endure. It can be said. God created this person for us to learn love.

Completely agree with you.

After reading the parable of the talents, I full understand that a handicapped person is a person given one talent. You and I are given five. It is just the way it is. We can't fully grasp it right now. It all ties up to God being true to free will. We will better grasp it in heaven.

Your / our other opponents are those given one talent who cry all day about it and never go on from there to turn the one talent into another one.

 

[amadeus2]

Exactly His Words.
When we His Believers Speak, Pray and do His Word He honors it.

When we make Gods Word our Words then He will do what we say.

But if our words do not line up with His Word, then He does not Cary them out.

There are Kingdom Laws in place and we are governed by them. There is Kingdom or in The Kingdom of God.
Blessings

I would be a little more precise than that. God spoke both blessings and curses according to our response or lack of response. We get according to what we do or not do with what has been given to us as per what God had already spoken at or before the foundation of the world of men:

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48