Hebrews 12:15-17

[lentz]

Does this go against the theory of the Eternal Security of the Believer?
I have been on the fence of this issue for a while.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

No, friend, this passage addresses Esau who traded eternal blessing for a morsel of bread, he was never a believer to begin with. "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

 

[Waggles]

Hebrews 12:14 Follow after peace with all, and the sanctification without which no one shall see the Lord:
15 looking carefully lest there be any that falleth short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby the many be defiled;
16 lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one piece of food sold his own birthrights.
17 For ye know that even when he afterward desired to inherit the blessing, he was disapproved; for he found no place for repentance in his father, though he sought it diligently with tears.

"as Esau" > like unto Esau or Esau as an example.
Yes these scriptures, like so many others, in the NT warn disciples to remain steadfast and sure. Not to fall away.
There is no such thing in scripture as once saved always saved.
Salvation is a hope looked forward to, to press on toward - salvation is only gained at the end when Jesus welcomes you into the Kingdom of his Father.

Romans 8:24 For in hope were we saved: but hope seen is not hope: for who hopes for what he sees?
25 But if we hope for what we see not, we await it with patience.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

"as Esau" > like unto Esau or Esau as an example.
Yes these scriptures, like so many others, in the NT warn disciples to remain steadfast and sure. Not to fall away.
There is no such thing in scripture as once saved always saved.
Salvation is a hope looked forward to, to press on toward - salvation is only gained at the end when Jesus welcomes you into the Kingdom of his Father.

OSAS or not depends on your understanding of "salvation". In the judgement of nations, aka sheep and goats parable, sheep nations - NOT God's people, aka "my brethren" - are accepted into the kingdom; In Rev. 20, there are also those nations who rebelled with Satan at the END of the millennium; also, there are those whol will be saved, and yet their works fail the test of fire and their rewards are lost. Therefore these may be the backslid believers who are saved and accepted to enter the kingdom, but NOT ruling with Christ. Instead they will BE ruled by Christ - with a rod of iron.

 

[Waggles]

OSAS or not depends on your understanding of "salvation". In the judgement of nations, aka sheep and goats parable, sheep nations - NOT God's people, aka "my brethren" - are accepted into the kingdom; In Rev. 20, there are also those nations who rebelled with Satan at the END of the millennium; also, there are those whol will be saved, and yet their works fail the test of fire and their rewards are lost. Therefore these may be the backslid believers who are saved and accepted to enter the kingdom, but NOT ruling with Christ. Instead they will BE ruled by Christ - with a rod of iron.

There is much confusion and disputable content here.
In a nutshell once saved always saved is false doctrine.
Salvation is a lifetime commitment of endurance and faithfulness.
(and overcoming)

 

[lentz]

There is much confusion and disputable content here.
In a nutshell once saved always saved is false doctrine.
Salvation is a lifetime commitment of endurance and faithfulness.
(and overcoming)

What then will happen with Saphira and Ananias?

 

[Waggles]

What then will happen with Saphira and Ananias?

I do not know. That belongs to our Lord and Saviour.
2Cor 13:5 Test yourselves, whether ye are in the faith; prove yourselves. Or know ye not as to yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you? Unless indeed ye be disapproved.

 

[lentz]

Esau was just whining because he gave his brother the farm he would have inherited, it had nothing to do with salvation.
God said Jacob i loved and Esau i hate,hundreds of years after they had lived their lives.(Malachi 1) He could have repented of sins at any time.

 

[lentz]

I do not know. That belongs to our Lord and Saviour.
2Cor 13:5 Test yourselves, whether ye are in the faith; prove yourselves. Or know ye not as to yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you? Unless indeed ye be disapproved.

I belive they fall under the jurisdiction of John 15. There is a sin unto death. They were removed from the field of fruitbearing. God prunes us. But if we wither we are set aside. I know men who used to be deacons preachers teachers,that lost their witness and now they sit on sidelines. God even called some home.
Ananias and Saphira didnt go to hell or whereever bad folk go.
The church was just starting out and it was holy. Had to be. Today people stand flat footed in church and iie.

 

[complete]

Does this go against the theory of the Eternal Security of the Believer?
I have been on the fence of this issue for a while.

'Follow peace with all men,
and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God;
lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
.. Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau,
.... who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
...... For ye know how that afterward,
........ when he would have inherited the blessing,
.......... he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance,
............ though he sought it carefully with tears.'
(Heb 12:14-17)

Hello @lentz,

Looking at this verse afresh now, my mind goes to the fact that although the gift of life once given, cannot be lost, (for the gifts and calling of God are without repentance - Rom. 11:29), a believer can loose their reward; which concerns inheritance. For it was the blessing concerning inheritance that Esau lost, wasn't it? Not his life.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Garee]

Hebrews 12:14 Follow after peace with all, and the sanctification without which no one shall see the Lord:
15 looking carefully lest there be any that falleth short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby the many be defiled;
16 lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one piece of food sold his own birthrights.
17 For ye know that even when he afterward desired to inherit the blessing, he was disapproved; for he found no place for repentance in his father, though he sought it diligently with tears.

"as Esau" > like unto Esau or Esau as an example.
Yes these scriptures, like so many others, in the NT warn disciples to remain steadfast and sure. Not to fall away.
There is no such thing in scripture as once saved always saved.
Salvation is a hope looked forward to, to press on toward - salvation is only gained at the end when Jesus welcomes you into the Kingdom of his Father.

Romans 8:24 For in hope were we saved: but hope seen is not hope: for who hopes for what he sees?
25 But if we hope for what we see not, we await it with patience.

So then once lost always lost? Christ is my confidence. Salvation is salvation complete. Not installments . Not a kick start . . make some noise without meaning. . . I did it now I am saved . . . slain in the spirit .

I think God finishes what he begins.

Philippians 1:5-6 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[Garee]

Esau was just whining because he gave his brother the farm he would have inherited, it had nothing to do with salvation.
God said Jacob i loved and Esau i hate,hundreds of years after they had lived their lives.(Malachi 1) He could have repented of sins at any time.

The seed of the second born as a law is used to show second birth. It is a matter of salvation having to do with the seed Christ that works in those born from above.

Esau like Cain saw no value in the hidden things of God (gospel) ..Onan spilled the seed and was killed . Ishmael was sent into the desert.

 

[Curtis]

Jud 1:24 Now all glory to God, who is able to keep you from falling away and will bring you with great joy into his glorious presence without a single fault. (NLT)