His Diety

[B-A-C]

It seems this subject comes up at least every 6 months or so.

The answer isn't always a simple yes or no to everyone.

We have modalists, who would.. "sometimes".
We have oneness unitarians who would say ... "never".
We have trinitarians who would say "always".

And even if the answer is yes.... it can be controversial.
He is one of many Gods. (One large cult/church here in the US says we can ALL become Gods)
We have "Jesus only" believers that don't believe the Father or the Holy Spirit are God.

It would seem to be an important subject, not everyone can be right.
Does it matter? To me at least, if you aren't worshiping the right God... you are worshiping a false god.

Why do we think Jesus is God? Why do we believe in a trinity? If you don't know the answers...
why do you believe what you believe? Just because some one else "told you so"?

======================================================================================

In one of the major prophecies about Jesus... He is called "God".. and He is also called "Father".
Does that mean Jesus is the Father? More about that later.

Isa 9:6; For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Another old testament prophecy about Jesus says...

Isa 7:14; "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

OK, so His name is Immanuel, what does that have to do with anything?

Matt 1:23; "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."

Jesus's name actually means... "God with us". It doesn't say "almost God" or "half-God" or even "Gold-like".
It says.. "God with us".

========================================================================================

Some of the more common passages to support Jesus as God are in John 1.

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2; He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

The "Word" was God, but also... He was "with" God? How can you be "with" yourself?
This Word/God created everything, and nothing was created without Him.

John 1:14; And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:15; John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"

This Word/God became flesh and dwelt among men. It seems the last time God dwelt among men
from time to time was way back at the beginning of Genesis. John the apostle is talking about John the Baptist here. Now John the Baptist was a cousin to Jesus. ( Luke 1:26; )
John the Baptist was also about 6 months older than Jesus. ( Luke 1:24-27; )

Yet in John 1:15; he says Jesus "existed before me".

============================================================================================

Is Jesus the Son ever called God?

Heb 1:7; And of the angels He says, "WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS, AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE."
Heb 1:8; But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
Heb 1:9; "YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS."

Is Jesus ever called God out-right in the Bible?

Tit 2:13; looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus,

2 Pet 1:1; Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Both Peter and Paul called Jesus "God" (and Savior).

... to be continued ...

 

[B-A-C]

Mark 10:18; And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

Does this statement from Jesus mean He wasn't good? Or does it mean He is God?

Gen 1:1; In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

God created the heavens and the earth. But yet...

John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Jesus created the heavens and the earth.

Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.

Jesus created everything. So Jesus must be God.

======================================================================================================

So are there two/three or more Gods? Should we worship the Father and the Son?

Exod 20:3; "You shall have no other gods before Me.
Exod 20:4; "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
Exod 20:5; "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

The Bible says we only have ONE God. ...and He is the only one we should worship.

... to be continued ...

 

[B-A-C]

John 8:58; Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

Now of courses Abraham was on the earth hundreds of years before Jesus was born as a human.
Even hundreds of years after we hear about Abraham, God tells Moses...

Exod 3:13; Then Moses said to God, "Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you.' Now they may say to me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?"
Exod 3:14; God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

God said He is "I am". Jesus said He was "I am".

Jesus was in heaven before Adam and Eve fell in the garden.

Luke 10:18; And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

In Rev 21:6; God says He is the Alpha and the Omega, (the first and the last).
But In Rev 1:8; and Rev 22:13; Jesus says He is the Alpha and the Omega.

When God finally got around the creating man, He said...

Gen 1:26; Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Who was the "our" in this verse?

.. to be continued ...

 

[B-A-C]

Can God die?

No but men can. Jesus was fully God, but also fully man at the same time.

The spiritual part of men never dies, our souls never really die. We just spend eternity in different places.
However our fleshly/human bodies do die. Even Jesus's did... "for a little while".

When Jesus was resurrected, He was resurrected in the flesh.

Luke 24:39; "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

Even Jesus's fleshly body didn't die. By the way... Jesus isn't dead!!

Jesus spends most of John 5, tellling the Pharisees why He could heal on the Sabbath and not break the law, they accused Him of making HImself equal with God. They weren't wrong. He was.

John 5:18; For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
John 5:34; "But the testimony which I receive is not from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved.

..and Jesus says you must believe this.. "so that you may be saved".

... to be continued ...

 

[B-A-C]

Php 2:6; who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7; but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8; Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Col 2:9; For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

 

[Hitch]

Yup.

 

[Waggles]

John 6:35 Jesus said to them, I am the bread of life: who cometh unto me shall in nowise hunger, and who believeth unto me shall in nowise ever thirst.
45 It is written in the prophets, And all shall be taught of God. Every one that hath heard from the Father, and hath learned, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any one hath seen the Father, save he that is from God, HE hath seen the Father.
47 Amen, Amen, I say unto you, Who believeth hath eternal life.
48 I am the bread of life.
49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and died.
50 This is the bread which cometh down out of heaven, that one eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: yea and the bread which I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world.

 

[Waggles]

John 8:12 Again therefore Jesus spake to them, saying, I am the light of the world: who followeth me shall in no wise walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life.
John 9:5 While I am in the world, I am Light of the world.

Genesis 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

 

[Waggles]

John 10:7 So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.
9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

 

[Waggles]

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
12 He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them.
13 He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,

 

[Waggles]

John 11:23 Jesus saith to her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith to him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection, and the life: who believeth unto me shall live, even if he die;
26 and every one who liveth and believeth unto me shall nowise die unto the age. Believest thou this?
27 She saith to him, Yea, Lord: I have believed that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, even he that cometh into the world.

 

[Waggles]

John 14:6 Jesus saith to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but through me.
7 If ye had known me, ye would have known my Father also: henceforth ye know and have seen him.

 

[Waggles]

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away: and every one that beareth fruit, he pruneth it, that it bear more fruit.
3 Already YE are clean because of the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. Even as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine; thus neither ye, unless ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: Who abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing.
6 Unless one abide in me, he is cast forth as the branch, and is withered; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

 

[Waggles]

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw and was glad.
57 The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said to them, Amen, Amen, I say unto you, Before Abraham became, I am.

 

[Waggles]

John 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all the things coming upon him, went forth, and saith to them, Whom seek ye?
5 They answered him, Jesus the Nazorean. He saith to them, I am he. And Judas also, who delivered him up, was standing with them.
6 When therefore he said to them I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

John 10:17 For this the Father loveth me, because I lay down my life, that I take it again.
18 No one took it away from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have authority to lay it down, and have authority to take it again. This commandment received I from my Father.

 

[Born Again 2004]

It seems this subject comes up at least every 6 months or so.

The answer isn't always a simple yes or no to everyone.

We have modalists, who would.. "sometimes".
We have oneness unitarians who would say ... "never".
We have trinitarians who would say "always".

And even if the answer is yes.... it can be controversial.
He is one of many Gods. (One large cult/church here in the US says we can ALL become Gods)
We have "Jesus only" believers that don't believe the Father or the Holy Spirit are God.

It would seem to be an important subject, not everyone can be right.
Does it matter? To me at least, if you aren't worshiping the right God... you are worshiping a false god.

Why do we think Jesus is God? Why do we believe in a trinity? If you don't know the answers...
why do you believe what you believe? Just because some one else "told you so"?

======================================================================================

In one of the major prophecies about Jesus... He is called "God".. and He is also called "Father".
Does that mean Jesus is the Father? More about that later.

Isa 9:6; For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Another old testament prophecy about Jesus says...

Isa 7:14; "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

OK, so His name is Immanuel, what does that have to do with anything?

Matt 1:23; "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."

Jesus's name actually means... "God with us". It doesn't say "almost God" or "half-God" or even "Gold-like".
It says.. "God with us".

========================================================================================

Some of the more common passages to support Jesus as God are in John 1.

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2; He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

The "Word" was God, but also... He was "with" God? How can you be "with" yourself?
This Word/God created everything, and nothing was created without Him.

John 1:14; And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:15; John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"

This Word/God became flesh and dwelt among men. It seems the last time God dwelt among men
from time to time was way back at the beginning of Genesis. John the apostle is talking about John the Baptist here. Now John the Baptist was a cousin to Jesus. ( Luke 1:26; )
John the Baptist was also about 6 months older than Jesus. ( Luke 1:24-27; )

Yet in John 1:15; he says Jesus "existed before me".

============================================================================================

Is Jesus the Son ever called God?

Heb 1:7; And of the angels He says, "WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS, AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE."
Heb 1:8; But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
Heb 1:9; "YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS."

Is Jesus ever called God out-right in the Bible?

Tit 2:13; looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus,

2 Pet 1:1; Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Both Peter and Paul called Jesus "God" (and Savior).

... to be continued ...

First of all, I'm may be at fault here but this is too long for me!

And second, God gives us Faith once He verifies that we are true believers .
The Bible reveals many things, among which is the Trinity and God / Jesus are Holy, Righteous, and Perfect to name a few, and We hold the truths to be self-evident by the Faith He gave us!

 

[Christ4Ever]

First of all, I'm may be at fault here but this is too long for me!

Dear Brother,
I can appreciate the difficulties in trying to follow a long post.
Happens to me as well!

This can be especially trying when you are faced with many scripture verses and from different books!!! LOL
My suggestion is just taking bits and pieces of it and in prayer digest it slowly!
Kinda of like when one is told that when you eat, chew each mouth full so many times!!!

Always keep in mind that you have Brothers & Sisters in Christ Jesus here who are more than willing to accept and expound upon any questions you may have!!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Happy New Year
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[B-A-C]

58 Jesus said to them, Amen, Amen, I say unto you, Before Abraham became, I am.

Amen.

Col 1:15; He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17; He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

What is "creation". Its the physical universe we can see and everything in it. The Sun, the moon, the stars, you, me... everything.
Some people take the verse about and say.. Jesus was the firstborn of creation. That means He was created. But no it doesn't mean that.
God existed before creation existed. Jesus existed before creation existed. But when creation was finally created... Jesus was the first person created. Even then He wasn't alive on the Earth yet.
We could get into semantics here about Adam was the first man created. (on the Earth anyway).
Verse 17 here says "He" (Jesus) is before all things, and holds all things together. How could Jesus create everything, if He didn't exist yet?

 

[Waggles]

Proverbs 8 is very much about Jesus

Proverbs 8:22 “The LORD possessed me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old.
23 Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth.
24 When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth,
26 before he had made the earth with its fields, or the first of the dust of the world.
27 When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,
28 when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep,
29 when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth,
30 then I was beside him, like a master workman, and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always,
31 rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the children of man.