How good is God, exactly? and why?

[KingJ]

Psalm 136:1 Give thanks because God is good.

I often ask myself why David needed to state this to Hebrews that should 'know' God is good. From many discussions with atheists and agnostics, it seems clear that the default belief for most people is that God is both a mix of good and evil. Some, a minority, argue that He is only evil as His goodness is always sadistic.

In order to arrive at an accurate synopsis of the one true God, God of the bible, we need to look at 1. Scripture, 2. Reality and 3. the Cross.

1. Scripture:

- Prophets that knew God better then you or I, had this to say of Him:

Psalm 136:1 Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good. His love endures forever.
Psalm 145:17 The Lord is righteous in all his ways and faithful in all he does.
Deut 32:4 The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.
1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all
1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

- Both Abraham and Moses were given an opportunity to 'interrogate' God's decisions that 'appeared' evil. We see this in Exo 32 with the golden calf and in Gen 18 with the destruction of Sodom. Both Abraham and Moses conceded to God's wisdom and decision. Accepting that it was necessary, just and righteous. You simply cannot have extremely wicked people with children, animals and saints. There has to always be a balance of good and evil for free will.

- Plagues. Exo 7, Rev 8 and rev 16 all mention the plagues God has and is going to place on humans. On face value, seeing someone running around with boils on them, seems as though it is the workings of an evil God. But, considering that plagues increase in severity and are only applied to those who are doing evil, in a last ditch attempt by God to get them to repent as He wills that all be saved 1 Tim 2:4, we see that God is going above and beyond what is reasonable and expected in order to help and save people from...themselves. God wants to be 100% certain that if someone is sent to an eternal prison, they will truly not ever desire repentance. This is the actions of a good and just God. Zero evil.

- Genocide. Many examples in scripture of God helping and 'dealing' with the enemies of the Hebrews. On face value it seems as though God is evil. He kills all those who oppose His 'specially' chosen race. But on further investigation we find that in every instance of Him getting involved, certain criteria were adhered to. The enemies of the Hebrews deserved it. They were very wicked. Sold out to what is evil / sin full measure Gen 15:16. A simple study of the Amalekites for example shows how wicked they were. After Moses negotiated a peace treaty for safe passage for the Hebrews, they launched a surprise attack. They knew the Hebrews were enslaved for four hundred years, they knew God helped them escape as Moses would testify to it, they knew the Hebrews were good people that would stone to death mortal sinners / any guilty of rape for example, they knew the Hebrews had wondered the wilderness for forty years.....and yet they still attacked them whilst carrying their items and exhausted from the sun.

- Destruction of Sodom / Noah's flood. The sins of Sodom were great Gen 18. We need to focus on how He destroyed them. Nobody disagrees with prison or death penalty for the extremely wicked. What we see when properly reading scripture is that His destruction of the wicked is always swift. We see in Gen 19 that the fires in Sodom were likened to a furnace. The people of Sodom were not 'tortured' over a long period of time. Abraham would have had something further to say to God in Gen 18 if that were the case. With Noah and the flood, people suffered the effects of a drowning. A relatively quick death, no 'waterboarding' torture. They had 50-120 years before the Ark was done, IE they had 50-120 years to repent of their gross sin lifestyle that upset God.

- Hell. Many misrepresent God when cherry picking scripture on hell. They assume the worst off of scriptures that simply mention the word 'fire''. What to expect in hell. If you think long and hard on hell, you will see that it is actually the creation of a good God. He honors the free will of all those who hate Him, by allowing them to live out their existence in a home away from Him.

2. Reality:

Right now, you and I can choose to do what is good or evil. We have true free will to chose either. Free will is a good thing. If anyone thinks it is not, just go ask a bride forced into an arranged marriage if she would prefer to choose her spouse.

Sure there is evil all around us. But there is a balance of good and evil. So many signs and conditions that point to free will and the need for us to choose whether we give in to doing what is evil or repenting and choosing to do what is good and right. Everyday, we are faced with these choices. There is no escaping it. Everything on earth, our entire reality, shouts free will. The creation we are has the ability to choose to love what is evil or hate it. Fact.

A good God gives free will. If God did not allow free will, He would be evil. Free will is one of the hardest debates to have. Ideas to grasp. As God is omniscient and omnipotent. But God is also good. He is as good as He is great. He does what pleases Him Psalm 135:6 and what pleases Him is choosing to do what is righteous. He can be evil, but He chooses to be good.

3. The cross:

God shows the depth of His love for us in that He made Himself a lamb to the slaughter and died for us. There is no greater act of love possible.

John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.

God became flesh Isa 9:6 and lay down His life as a lamb to the slaughter Isa 53:7 for you and I. For everyone. God truly desires that all be saved and choose life over death 1 Tim 2:4. Hating what is evil over loving it Rom 12:9.

My Conclusion:

God is accused of being evil as evil exists. It is terribly lazy and dishonest discernment. True free will is a big gift and a gift God gives us. All of creation around us, points to it. No free will is wicked, fact.

God is 10/10 good as He gives us true free will.
God is 10/10 good as even though He can be evil, He chooses to be good and hate what is evil.
God is 10/10 good as He lays His life down for us. His love for us is at the maximum level that love can be.

 

[rstrats]

God is omniscient and omnipotent.

Does He have any input into the creation of an individual, and if so, does He know whether or not He will eventually be casting the individual into the lake of fire?

 

[KingJ]

Does He have any input into the creation of an individual,

Yes, He has created everything.

and if so, does He know whether or not He will eventually be casting the individual into the lake of fire?

No. He chooses to be good.

Evil takes place in a universe run by an omnipotent God, because God is good and gives highly intelligent beings like us and angels, true free will.
Likewise, on omniscience, if it can be proven that knowing something would make God wicked, He chooses to not know it. He can, as Rom 9 explains, but the rest of scripture makes it clear that He chooses to do what is good.

He chooses to be righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17. All the evidence, every scripture outside of Rom 9 teaches us that He is as good as He is great.

Catholics believe in a term call limited omniscience. It is a sound theory that I agree with.

 

[rstrats]

No. He chooses to be good.

He chooses to not know it. He can, as Rom 9 explains, but the rest of scripture makes it clear that He chooses to do what is good.

I don't understand. First you say that He doesn't know, but then you say that He can know, but chooses not to. How is that being good? If He has the ability to know that He would be tossing a person into the lake of fire sometime in the future if He were to create them, then He would know not to create them. Again, how is that being good to ignore that ability?

 

[B-A-C]

I think a lot of people confused "good" with "nice".

A good parent doesn't let the older brother beat up on the younger sister. They punish him.
A good parent doesn't a toddler go play in the middle of the street. But a "nice" parent might. Then they yell at the people driving down the road, because their child is in danger. Go figure.

A nice judge might let rapists, murderers, pedophiles, and deal dealers go free. But a "good" judge wouldn't ( maybe eventually if they've really repented and changed ).

A "nice" God might not send anyone to hell or the Lake of Fire.
But a "good" God definitely will. A good God doesn't just let everyone off the hook.
We've all hurt people at some point in our lives, I know I have. But hopefully we can reconcile with these people, apologize, make amends if possible, and try to love them.
But some people, they just don't care... too bad if I hurt you, you should have stayed out of my way. For whatever reason they are so wrapped up in themselves, that whoever they hurt
in the process of getting what they want is just collateral damage.

The Bible... God's very own words, that come from Himself. Says that these people will be punished. Some during their lifetime here in this life.
But some, in hades, and eventually in the Lake of Fire.... forever in torment, in the next life.

If treats the wicked and evil the same way He treats the righteous saints, then He is not a good God. He is simply a "nice" God. If no one gets punished, then the Bible is a lie.
God's word is a lie, and there are no consequences for rejected Jesus.

How good is God? Good enough to sentence some people to eternal torment.

Matt 25:45; "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

 

[KingJ]

I don't understand. First you say that He doesn't know, but then you say that He can know, but chooses not to. How is that being good? If He has the ability to know that He would be tossing a person into the lake of fire sometime in the future if He were to create them, then He would know not to create them. Again, how is that being good to ignore that ability?

God limits His omniscience to uphold being good.

Omnipotence = all powerful, Omniscience = all knowing.

Many do not accept that statement as they cannot reconcile God limiting anything. When all scripture points to just that. Evil, something God absolutely hates takes place. This is clearly as a result of Him limiting His omnipotence to uphold true free will. Likewise, on omniscience, God knowing from birth that a baby will go to hell, since God is the Creator, this would be evil of Him.

 

[KingJ]

First you say that He doesn't know, but then you say that He can know, but chooses not to. How is that being good?

Are you asking why free will is a good thing?

Free will is a gift He gives us. He doesn't have to give it. But since He is a good God, He can't but give it to a highly intelligent creation like us.

 

[rstrats]

Are you asking why free will is a good thing?

No.

 

[rstrats]

I think a lot of people confused "good" with "nice".

A "nice" God might not send anyone to hell or the Lake of Fire. But a "good" God definitely will. A good God doesn't just let everyone off the hook.

But the person in question doesn't exist yet.