How to Do This?

[Sue J Love]

What are your thoughts on these verses? How do you believe we can practically implement them into our lives? Do you believe these instructions are only for the church corporately? Or, are they for us individually, too? And, what if the person(s) we are supposed to avoid, not associate with, not even eat with, and to have nothing to do with is someone in our families, like a spouse, child, grandchild, parent, sister, or brother? What if they live with us in the same house? How does that work? I have wondered these things for years, and I still do not have a concrete answer.

Regarding associations with unbelievers:

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 NASB: Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said,

“I will dwell in them and walk among them;
And I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
“Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate,” says the Lord.
“And do not touch what is unclean;
And I will welcome you.
“And I will be a father to you,
And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,”
Says the Lord Almighty.

Regarding associations with professing Christians:

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 NASB: I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.


2 Thessalonians 3:6, 14 NASB/NIV: Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us… Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed.


Titus 1:10-16 NASB: For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain. One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith, not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth. To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.


Titus 3:9-11 NIV: But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.


[A divisive person is “disposed to form sects, sectarian, heretical, factious.” Literally, a factious person is one who is “specializing in half-truths and misimpressions ‘to win others over’ to their personal opinion (misguided zeal) – while creating harmful divisions (used only in Tit 3:10)” (Source: biblehub.com). If someone is heretical, he is deviating, dissenting, and/or profane (irreverent, abusive and full of contempt regarding what is sacred). And, to deviate means to stray, depart, turn from, or wander (coast), in this case, from the biblical standard for how we should live our lives as followers of Jesus Christ, i.e. it is to be immoral.]

 

[B-A-C]

2 Jn 1: 9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.
2 Jn 1:10; If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;
2 Jn 1:11; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

The church I attend is pretty strict about doctrine. (I have attended this church in 12 states, so I don't mean just this congregation).
We divide doctrine into two parts, the part that matters, and the part that doesn't.
For example someone posted something about were Cain and Abel twins. I suppose it possible, I don't know. But either way
my salvation doesn't depend on that.
On the other hand, did Jesus die, rise again, is He God/the Son of God, was He sinless, the Lamb of God, is being born again required,
is being born of the Spirit required, ... etc... my salvation does depend on these things.

2 Cor 11:3; But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.
2 Cor 11:4; For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you accept them in quite easily.

This is my opinion of TalkJesus and other "ecumenical" websites. They accept multiple teachings (even on core doctrines)
in the name of "spiritual oneness".

My church has asked certain people not to teach or spread certain doctrines in the church. If they keep doing it, they are asked to leave.
As a past elder, I have asked certain people to leave. I am in two Bible study groups (one is men only) and most of us are pretty well
grounded, but whenever a new questionable doctrine starts to rise up... it is usually shot down pretty quickly.

I know this will likely offend some, and many here won't agree with that policy. That's fine.
But you have to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.

 

[Sue J Love]

2 Jn 1: 9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.
2 Jn 1:10; If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;
2 Jn 1:11; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

The church I attend is pretty strict about doctrine. (I have attended this church in 12 states, so I don't mean just this congregation).
We divide doctrine into two parts, the part that matters, and the part that doesn't.
For example someone posted something about were Cain and Abel twins. I suppose it possible, I don't know. But either way
my salvation doesn't depend on that.
On the other hand, did Jesus die, rise again, is He God/the Son of God, was He sinless, the Lamb of God, is being born again required,
is being born of the Spirit required, ... etc... my salvation does depend on these things.

2 Cor 11:3; But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.
2 Cor 11:4; For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you accept them in quite easily.

This is my opinion of TalkJesus and other "ecumenical" websites. They accept multiple teachings (even on core doctrines)
in the name of "spiritual oneness".

My church has asked certain people not to teach or spread certain doctrines in the church. If they keep doing it, they are asked to leave.
As a past elder, I have asked certain people to leave. I am in two Bible study groups (one is men only) and most of us are pretty well
grounded, but whenever a new questionable doctrine starts to rise up... it is usually shot down pretty quickly.

I know this will likely offend some, and many here won't agree with that policy. That's fine.
But you have to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.

B-A-C, Glad to hear that the church fellowship with which you participate stands true to the Word of God and does not tolerate what is truly false.

Yet, although at least one of the verses I quoted also had to do with those who are teaching what is wrong, what I am mainly concerned with is those who profess to be our brothers and sisters in Christ and yet they are living wicked, abusive, immoral, deceptive, unruly, and ungodly lives, and either refuse to repent (verbally) or else they make no serious effort to change their behavior, but continue living wickedly and abusively while professing to be followers of Jesus Christ. These verses instruct us to have nothing to do with them, to not even eat with them, to keep away from them and to not associate with them. Does your church practice this? Do any of us practice this with people in our lives who are living like this yet claiming to be Christians? And, what to do with those who are in our own families, like a spouse, child, grandchild, parent, sister or brother, especially if they live in the same house with us? How do we do this then? That is really my question. Any thoughts on that?

 

[B-A-C]

Yet, although at least one of the verses I quoted also had to do with those who are teaching what is wrong, what I am mainly concerned with is those who profess to be our brothers and sisters in Christ and yet they are living wicked, abusive, immoral, deceptive, unruly, and ungodly lives, and either refuse to repent (verbally) or else they make no serious effort to change their behavior, but continue living wickedly and abusively while professing to be followers of Jesus Christ.

Thanks for the clarification.

You did give some good scripture for this. (The entire chapter of 1 Cor 5 deals with this).
It talks about about a man sleeping with his fathers wife (presumably not his mother).
It ends with saying we should judge those in the church and we should remove the wicked man from among us.

Matt 18:15-17 also deals with those who continue to sin in the church. Let them be as a Gentile or tax collector to you.
Gentile meant non-Jew. But it also meant non-saved in that time because the Gentiles were ignorant about Jesus in those days.
I always laugh when I read this verse because I have a friend who is a Christian but he works for the IRS. (tax collector).

But I agree with you, we should make a distinction here.
First there are the unsaved. maybe they are seeking Jesus, but they don't know Him yet.
We can't kick them out of the church. They don't claim to be saved.
Then we have "new" Christians. They are still infants in their walk. They don't know all of the "rules" yet.
(It offends some people that God has "rules") so we can't kick them out yet either.
Finally we have those who have been in the church for a long time, and have claimed to be Christians for a long time (possibly decades)
These people should know better by now. However this often goes back back to allowed doctrines in many churches.

(Many churches allow homosexuality, adultery, etc... as part of their doctrine) That's why I assumed you pointing more at the church doctrine
rather than individuals (my mistake).

This also goes to the church leadership. They have to be the ones to set the policy.

 

[Sue J Love]

Thanks for the clarification.

You did give some good scripture for this. (The entire chapter of 1 Cor 5 deals with this).
It talks about about a man sleeping with his fathers wife (presumably not his mother).
It ends with saying we should judge those in the church and we should remove the wicked man from among us.

Matt 18:15-17 also deals with those who continue to sin in the church. Let them be as a Gentile or tax collector to you.
Gentile meant non-Jew. But it also meant non-saved in that time because the Gentiles were ignorant about Jesus in those days.
I always laugh when I read this verse because I have a friend who is a Christian but he works for the IRS. (tax collector).

But I agree with you, we should make a distinction here.
First there are the unsaved. maybe they are seeking Jesus, but they don't know Him yet.
We can't kick them out of the church. They don't claim to be saved.
Then we have "new" Christians. They are still infants in their walk. They don't know all of the "rules" yet.
(It offends some people that God has "rules") so we can't kick them out yet either.
Finally we have those who have been in the church for a long time, and have claimed to be Christians for a long time (possibly decades)
These people should know better by now. However this often goes back back to allowed doctrines in many churches.

(Many churches allow homosexuality, adultery, etc... as part of their doctrine) That's why I assumed you pointing more at the church doctrine
rather than individuals (my mistake).

This also goes to the church leadership. They have to be the ones to set the policy.

But, what about us individually? What are these scriptures saying to us? You? Me? Obviously the part where it says to kick the man out of the church has to be a church action (discipline), but what about the others? These scriptures teach that we should not associate with someone who calls himself or herself a Christian and yet is living an immoral life, or an unruly life, or who is divisive. I am assuming here that the person knows he or she is doing wrong and is not willing to repent. We are to keep away from them, not associate with them, not even eat with them and have nothing to do with them. How do we do this individually, and especially how do we do this if the individual is a member of our own family or of our own household, maybe even our spouse? How does this work? That is my real question.