Idolatry

[Hekuran]

Just realised that I’ve not really thought much about what the ten commandments mean - or at least my thinking about them is vague and sloppy.

The first commandment ‘you shall have no gods before me’ is perfectly clear to me. But what to make of the second?

I’d been taught (or maybe assumed) that idolatry was the worship of false gods (Baal in the time of the old testament and money, fame and power in our time). But can’t be what the second command is aimed at because all this is already excluded by the first commandment.

An idol is a representation of a god – a physical human-made representation of a divine being. The main thrust of the command not to make idols is prohibiting any attempt to package God, to bring him down to a more accessible, convenient and manageable size.

You shall not try to domesticate God.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Nicely put.

 

[Curtis]

An "idolater" is someone who "covets" (desires) strongly what other people have. All they think about is keeping that "image" before them of what someone else has that they don't, and not being content with the things they have.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

 

[Hekuran]

I'd overlooked those verses. I was trying to get behind the original intent of the ten commandments.

Covetousness is idolatory, but it does not follow that idolatory is covetousness.

 

[Curtis]

Brother, "idolatry" does not change whether it was given in the Old Testament, or the New. What it meant when it was given is still the same today. Time does not change sin.

 

[Hekuran]

I don't see how the command, "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below." can possibly be about covetousness.

Especially when covetousness is very clearly dealt with: "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

 

[Curtis]

I don't see how the command, "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below." can possibly be about covetousness.

Especially when covetousness is very clearly dealt with: "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

It has everything to do with "strongly desire". Why would someone "desire" want to make an image of something in heaven above except to worship it?

 

[Hekuran]

Sorry, I can't follow your line of reasoning there, and still don't see how the second command might be about covetousness.

 

[Curtis]

EXODUS 20:4-6 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.

The entire purpose of the second commandment is to forbid men not to strongly desire (covetous) to worship any type of graven image, this is called "idolatry" which is "covetousness" as the New Testament confirms. As a Christian we can not take a single scripture, and come to a conclusion about it as it must be a theme that runs through out all scripture.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

Why would any human being want to crave such images? Not to place them in their front yard for a decoration for all to see, but to worship it as a God.

 

[Curtis]

Idolatry (AKA idol worship) is the worship of an idol or a physical object as a representation of a god.

What is "idolatry"? It is "covetousness"

 

[Hekuran]

Your logic is faulty.

All cats are mammals, but it does not follow that all mammals are cats.

Paul says that covetousness is idolatry, but it does not follow that idolatry is covetousness.

 

[Curtis]

Your logic is faulty.

All cats are mammals, but it does not follow that all mammals are cats.

Paul says that covetousness is idolatry, but it does not follow that idolatry is covetousness.

So, in your logical mind you think people who worship graven images, (AKA idol worship)(2 Commandment) do it because they have no desire to do such things? According to you they are just doing mindless things without any purpose!! This is impossible, as no one does any thing without first having a purpose, or a desire to do so.

 

[Hekuran]

No. In my logical mind, I think you have made a logical mistake.

I wrote in my opening post what I think is the motivation and danger of idolatry: the attempt to reduce God to human proportions.

 

[Curtis]

No. In my logical mind, I think you have made a logical mistake.

I wrote in my opening post what I think is the motivation and danger of idolatry: the attempt to reduce God to human proportions.

This where the problem lies. it has nothing to do with "what you think" it has to do with what scriptures says.

 

[Hekuran]

Fair enough, but I can't respond to what Scripture says without having thoughts. And though Scripture says that covetousness is idolatry, it does not say that idolatry is covetousness.

 

[amadeus2]

@Hekuran

Take hold of the two greatest commandments described by Jesus and see what does not fit into them of all the commandments given by God:

"Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

This is the first and great commandment.

And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matt 22:36-40

 

[Hekuran]

@Hekuran

Take hold of the two greatest commandments described by Jesus and see what does not fit into them of all the commandments given by God:

Everything that God commands is summarised by these two commandments.

Just to be clear: I am not questioning the authority of scripture, nor trying to stamp an agenda of my own on the 10 commands or any other part of the bible. My question is: what wisdom lies behind the second commandment, and what dangers does this command protect us from.

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Hekuran @Curtis
I do believe you both have it right but like the old adage about not seeing the forest for the trees seems to apply. I've been in that forest as well

What is of God belongs to God. So, Idolatry and to Covet are dealing with what is rightfully His only, as well as His to give as He sees fit. They don't conflict nor do they mean in essence something different or should not. That is why our Brother @amadeus2 was correct in mentioning our Lords words out of Matthew. Love encompasses it all if we not only understand, but live it.

Spurgeon had a nice devotional on Idolatry. Which I might help lend perspective. Notice the verse he uses.

Only You Lord or Idolatry

I truly hope this helps a little.
In the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
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