If the church is “Raptured” in this generation, what are the people left still, in the “Institutionalized church”, called?

[PloughBoy]

Who are these people left in the church when the others are gone with “Jesus” to Heaven and the dead in Christ who are raised from the dead. What are they called who are still worshipping every Sunday, who are they? If the Others are rapture and raised.

 

[Sue D.]

They are the one's who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior.

They are non-born-again people. They are the one's who believed that good works -- going to church every Sunday -- would get them to heaven. And they will be finding out that they were wrong.

So -- When the rapture Does take place. It will leave only non-believers here and they will go through however many years They have left. There Will be 7 years of tribulation for the non-accepting Jews To accept Him as their Messiah.

 

[Rockerduck]

I'd say we are right, and they are left. In my college Bible courses, I learned the born again Christians are roughly 25 to 30 percent of the population of the USA. That leaves 70 to 75 percent everyone else. You could dissect that within your local church.

 

[Sue D.]

That's what we can observe in a local church setting -- the universal church = those all over the world who are born-again believers are the sum total.

Locally -- by their fruit we shall know them -- actions speaking louder than words. And we Can get to know the people around us. Sharing our testimony with others.

We Can be / Should be encouraging each other in the Lord.

 

[Rockerduck]

Hey Sue,
In the Wed. night bible study I attend, I see what I call "feel good Christians" and think they are Christians. The feel good always talk how they feel and how they have gone to church all their lives. Born again Christians know how old they were when they are saved and most know their baptism date too, and they have a testimony.

 

[Sue D.]

You commented -- 'and the born-again ones who know Scripture -- so -- what critia do You attach to a born-again believer?

 

[Rockerduck]

Born again Christians hunger for Scripture and read, They have a testimony, They talk about Jesus.They walk the walk and talk the talk.

Walk up to any professing Christian and ask for His/Her testimony and how old they were when they came to Christ; and they will gladly tell you. Born again Christians know about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Any Born again Christian knows that point in their life that changed them forever when the Holy Spirit came upon them.

 

[B-A-C]

- so -- what critia do You attach to a born-again believer?

The question of the ages... asked a thousand times here on TJ, with a thousand different answers.
I would ask you the same question.

 

[Sue D.]

I go by God's Word -- Galations 5:22 - 23 "The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. "

I've noticed that here on TJ -- there are a lot of thoughts being shared that are not Scriptural.

The preceeding verses tell the works of the flesh vs 19,20, 21 - those who practice those things.

Ephesians 1:13 - 14. The sealing of the Holy Spirit as the result Of our salvation.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 "... I declare to you the Gospel........by which also you are saved.......that Christ died on the cross, according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried and that He rose again the 3rd day according to the Scriptures."

Romans 10: 9 - 10 "that if you confess with your mouth and Lord Jesus and believe in your heat that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." vs 13 "for whoso ever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Does this answer your question?!

 

[PloughBoy]

I'd say we are right, and they are left. In my college Bible courses, I learned the born again Christians are roughly 25 to 30 percent of the population of the USA. That leaves 70 to 75 percent everyone else. You could dissect that within your local church.

25-30 percent who claim to be born again christians in the USA. For last 30,, years the word “born again Christian” has took on different meanings now. Like for instance: “ I used to not go to church, now I do, so I am “born again” now. I have a newness of life. And the stories like that goes on and on. They don’t read the Bible, they don’t know what the Holy Spirit is, they just love all over the place. This is the new meaning of “born again christians”.
In reality maybe about 7 to 10 percent of USA are “born from above” children of God”. USA only is about 4.5 percent of the people in the entire world.
God’s true people has always been the least among all people.
But the “institutional church” will always called them selves the church even after the “Rapture “ has taken us to Heaven!

 

[Sue D.]

John chapter 3 tells us what born-again means.

Well -- what we Used to be compared to what we are Now -- Yes -- that Can be what salvation is all about. Our desires Have changed. Because the Holy Spirit has come to indwell us and He does change us from the inside to out. He, the Holy Spirit takes the old desires and puts in New desires.

Well -- people who are loving probably Are children of God. And unless a person lives with another person --how do 'I' know who does or does not read their Bible. Not a 'new' meaning at all.

And, yes, born-again believers Have been in the minority -- nothing new about that. We always Will be. But our 'job' is to go to other people with the Gospel unto salvation and share it.

I use the term born-again believers because there are a lot of people with a wonderful head knowledge of God , but have not extended that to their heart. And That is what makes the difference.

 

[PloughBoy]

You use the the words “born again” because that is how it Is translated in your “translated”, translation of the “Holy Scriptures”. The Original copy of the text says “Born From Above”, meaning like Jesus was “Born from Above”, meaning “Born of God” and not of earth, not of mind, not of flesh, nor or the will of thought or man or woman, but of God. That is not “born Again”, that is born of something new that has never existed before nor even heard of by a man. Ask Nicodemus.

 

[Sue D.]

I'm reading from the NKJ. vs 3 "Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." vs 5 "Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. vs 6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit, vs 7 "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'.

 

[Bill]

They are the one's who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior.

They are non-born-again people. They are the one's who believed that good works -- going to church every Sunday -- would get them to heaven. And they will be finding out that they were wrong.

So -- When the rapture Does take place. It will leave only non-believers here and they will go through however many years They have left. There Will be 7 years of tribulation for the non-accepting Jews To accept Him as their Messiah.

What will you say to yourself when you find the Rapture teachings were all an illusion . And the antiChrist is at hand .

 

[Bill]

I'm reading from the NKJ. vs 3 "Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." vs 5 "Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. vs 6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit, vs 7 "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'.

Isnt it interesting that Jesus Himself makes a separation between being born of the water and born of the Spirit .

They are two Baptisms.

John the Baptist did the same

 

[Sarahbrown]

Isnt it interesting that Jesus Himself makes a separation between being born of the water and born of the Spirit .

They are two Baptisms.

John the Baptist did the same

I totally agree with what you say

 

[Rockerduck]

Hello Bill,

"Isnt it interesting that Jesus Himself makes a separation between being born of the water and born of the Spirit .

They are two Baptisms."

Jesus and Nicodemus fully understood that Jesus was referring to you being born from your mothers womb ( in water) and born from above (born again) of the Holy Spirit. So you are born once then born again.

AMP
John 3:5-6 - 5 Jesus answered, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot [ever] enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh [the physical is merely physical], and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
NKJ
Ephesians 4:5-6 - . 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

You can understand that God indwells the born again believer by the Holy Spirit.

 

[B-A-C]

John 3:5-6 - 5 Jesus answered, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot [ever] enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh [the physical is merely physical], and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

This of course is another in a long series of things that have been debated by "the church" over the centuries.
But if being "born of water" mean natural birth, and not water baptism, (i.e. water breaks).. then that means aborted and miscarried babies can never enter the kingdom of God.
Only babies that were actually "born" of water would apply.

Also keep in mind, all 5 places it mentions people being "baptized" in the Holy Spirit, all five groups of them had already been saved for a while, and at least 3 groups of them had already been baptized in water.
No where in the Bible does it mention people being baptized in the Holy Spirit at the time of salvation.

You have the 120 people in the upper room in Acts 2, the disciples were there, they had already been baptized in water.

You have the disciples at Ephesus, ( Acts 19:1-7; ) they had already been baptized in water (John's baptism)

The Samaritans in Acts 8:12-17; had already been baptized in water.

....

In the case of Cornelius (the first Gentile baptized with the Holy Spirit).. he was baptized in the Holy Spirit first.. and then baptized in water. ( Acts 10:44-48 )

Which leaves Paul... it doesn't really mention if/when he was baptized in water. But he did baptize others, so it is assumed he was baptized in water.

 

[Sue D.]

What will you say to yourself when you find the Rapture teachings were all an illusion . And the antiChrist is at hand .

Well -- it won't be an illusion. There will be the 7 yrs in the future when the non-believing Jews will have a 2nd chance to repent -- no one else will. This is simply the time of the Gentiles.

If you really want to be round at the time of the Antichrist -- go for it. Won't say any more on that subject.

 

[Sue D.]

@B.A.C. -- your comment about aborted or miscarried babies. John 3 is talking about adult people -- Nicodemus was concerned about himself / his understanding.

A person has to be able to understand right from wrong in order to be able to understand salvation.

Depending on what a person believes that a baby becomes a viable person -- at the moment of conception or going through the birth canal.

A baby has a heart beat very early on. At that point they are totally dependent on the mother for Everything and will continue to be for a few months after birth. But how many of those unborn babies would have grown up to not accept Jesus Christ. So - in reality -- God is takiing them in their most vulnerable time and have them in heaven with Him.