If the church is “Raptured” in this generation, what are the people left still, in the “Institutionalized church”, called?

[Samson2020]

ohn the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb of his mother .

Elizabeth was filled with the Spirit as a consequence .

By what Spirit did the Apostles cast out demons and heal people when Jesus sent them out Two by Two .

You are confusing Having the Holy Spirit , and being Baptized by the Holy Spirit .

I'm only quoting the words of the Lord. Please explain why he said John was the greatest but the least in the kingdom was greater than he?

The apostles were given a temporary commission at that time, and you know as well as I that any casting out and healing that took place was the Fathers
doing.
And they received life on the day of Pentecost as it was then that they were born of the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit for ministry such as Elijah, John the Baptist, Baalams donkey etc.... was for ministry. The receiving of the seed of life from Jesus is the being born
again in the Spirit..

John 17:2 "as you have given him authority over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him." He was the first and he is the one
that gives this same eternal life that he received.
Co 1:20 : And having made peace by the blood of his cross to reconcile all things to himself.......

Every man or woman or soul has to come through Jesus to be born again in order to be part of the kingdom. Period.

".....Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit."
Jesus was that first corn of wheat that was perfected that fell into the ground and died and is now seeding those of us whom have been given him to eternal life


John 10:1 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber."

Jesus is the door to the sheepfold. ALL must come through that door. Period.

 

[Samson2020]

Now a person who does not know God , born under a rock so to speak . And loves deeply, Christ is already present. It can be said Jesus lives in them .

A sinner no matter how good they are is still a sinner and in need of remittance of sins, thus the need for Jesus to be preached unto them. Remember
God chooses the foolishness of preaching to save those that should be saved. "For God hath concluded them ALL in unbelief that he might have mercy on ALL."
Romans 10:14 " But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him?
And how can they hear of him unless someone tells them?
Romans 10:17 " So then faith cometh from hearing, and hearing from the word of God." Ye are saved by grace through FAITH............

As Paul would say "I am what I am by the grace of God." If a person is a deep lover of people and full of compassion etc.... it doesn't mean they are born again
it simply means that God made them what they are by his grace.

 

[Sue D.]

And there are Lots of very nice, loving people who are Not born again believers. And that's what makes it hard to show them / for them to accept / their personal need For salvation.

 

[PloughBoy]

And there are Lots of very nice, loving people who are Not born again believers. And that's what makes it hard to show them / for them to accept / their personal need For salvation.

For real,? Then why would good people need Jesus? Jesus is for "Sinners"! And all Sinners are Bad! Every last one of them! According to GOD! There are no good Sinners! LoL! There are no good devils, no not a one. I don't care how pretty they look, or how sweet they sound, or how many times they take a bath. Either you are a saint or devil. Why is it so hard for Christians to understand, what the Bible makes very clear

 

[Brother-Paul]

And there are Lots of very nice, loving people who are Not born again believers. And that's what makes it hard to show them / for them to accept / their personal need For salvation.

So true Sue,

There are so many nice people, they say they have Christian values but don't want religion, I don't blame them neither do I.

But the devil isn't interested in the lost souls, he is interested in any that what to come to Christ. Many say, why do bad people seem to get off with things and Christians get punished, the answer is in The Word. The devil prowls like an hungry lion looking for the next soul to devour, and it is usually a search heart one or a babe in Christ, that doesn't mean the rest of us are safe from Him and his trick, definitely not.

Good people think they will go to heaven so what have they to do nothing, so they think.

Good people do not believe they are sinners, they are to good for that... I am not like this person or that person, I do this and that and give to charity. All in scripture, they are veiled from the truth my their sins. They said they are good people not sinners. Commandment 1 of 10..... They fell at the first hurdle.

The deceiver of souls is good at what he does, he has had years of experience, but his time is coming soon, Thanks be to God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Amen

 

[Sue D.]

Because 'for All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

And all the bad people who seem to have it so good -- their good stuff will end when they die. Their turn will come in hell.

There Are a lot of Good people who are sincerely trying to work their way to heaven. And they need to be shown in a loving way that they need Jesus Christ. The sufficiency of the cross.

 

[PloughBoy]

Those good people you are talking about, "loves darkness rather than light"! Those good people you are talking about are enemies of GOD! Those good people you are talking about hate you and the Christ that is in you. They hate Christ and they hate you! Be not deceived. Those good people you are talking about are wolves in sheep clothes. And sometimes appears as Angels.

 

[Sue D.]

@PloughBoy -- you are trying to make 'one-size fits all' as far as non-believers are concerned.

Everyone is born with a propensity For sinning. Not Everyone is going to be an axe-murderer or a pediphile -- some are going to have a bad thought towards the neighbors's dog or cat. And That is a sin.

One of my uncles was a businessman -- owned a family grocery store and had a speed boat. Never went to church -- never saw any need to -- but he enjoyed taking friends / nephews out on the lake in his speed boat. Well -- many decades later, he started having stomach problems and was diagnosed with cancer. The same nephew who'd been trying to talk with him over the years and had been rejected -- Finally had the opportunity it talk to his uncle -- faced with his own death, he Did accept Jesus Christ as his Personal Savior and then had a real desire to read God's Word. His only regret -- not having accepted Him Years ago so he'd have more time to read and learn.

On the Other hand -- was my father-in-law -- passed away Years ago. Had Lots of money -- but didn't dress or act like it -- he made beautiful Christmas decorations for front yards. Had lots of older friends and Also had a 'potty' mouth. He seemed determined to show his 'religious' son how a Real man talked and acted with his wife. And he was arrested at the age of 70 for touching a couple of neighbor teens in an inappropriate manner. Spent a year in jail. Well -- he had to have surgery and was a cantankorous patient -- after taking the trach out after surgery -- his throat muscles didn't work right. They had to put restraints on him. Well -- after a while it was apparent that he was going to die -- the hospital chaplain had visited with him and told us that 'he had made his peace with his creator'. I suspect that that is told to family to help them feel better when their 'loved one' dies. Even at the very end -- Pop wasn't willing to listen.

See what I'm saying? A person doesn't have to be Actively Hating God or Hating people around them. And there Are people who Do actively hate God and His people. God knows each and every person's heart.

 

[PloughBoy]

I see it has been rightly said; that many Christians has from the "Billy Sunday's" revival movement of the 20th century movement of a form"Semi-pelagianism" to full "Pelagianism" in the institutional church of this 21st. Century. And they cannot discern even the difference or recognize by far what has happen, and the 3 chapter of the book of Isaiah has so rightly stated. Oh how the "Bible" is so true of this generation of believers that has so come to pass. To him that understands. Let him rejoice!

 

[Sue D.]

Please define "Pelagianism" heard the term -- explain what it means.

 

[Dave M]

To recieve Love to recieve Jesus is to Love God .

Bill if one of those nice mormons came to your house would you welcome him into your house??

 

[Dave M]

1 Corinthians 15:51-57 …..Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”



Revelation 11:15-18 ………….. ????Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying, “We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, who is and who was, for you have taken your great power and begun to reign. The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.”

looks simple the raptrue is at the last trumpet at the end of tribulation

 

[Sue D.]

Well -- that depends -- is the trumpet sound of the rapture happening the same as those trumpets in Revelation. I don't think it is. I think there are two different trumpet times.

 

[Dave M]

Well -- that depends -- is the trumpet sound of the rapture happening the same as those trumpets in Revelation. I don't think it is. I think there are two different trumpet times.

could be but the 7th trumpet is the last trumpet I think, also the dead will rise, which is the Resurrection I think, and that is at the end times

it is interesting it says here that those who are left

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

it sounds like it suggesting those that have endured those that have survived to the end,, my speculation...but you have to ask yourself what are they left from????????

 

[Dave M]

John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:54
Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.



to me this is saying that we all get our glorified bodies on the last day, that would be after the tribulation wouldn't it that is the last day is after the tribulation?

 

[Dave M]

Well -- that depends -- is the trumpet sound of the rapture happening the same as those trumpets in Revelation. I don't think it is. I think there are two different trumpet times.

what makes you think that?? are there any other trumpets mentioned in scripture concerning the last days??

 

[Sue D.]

Take a look at 1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord, Himself, will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. "

There are those who put That trumpet with the trumpets in Revelation. And I believe they are at a different time.

 

[B-A-C]

There are those who put That trumpet with the trumpets in Revelation. And I believe they are at a different time.

You may be right, but when and where would you put it?
How many resurrections/raptures do you think there are? (The Bible does say there are at least 2).

 

[Brother-Paul]

@PloughBoy -- you are trying to make 'one-size fits all' as far as non-believers are concerned.

Greeting Sue, in context with scripture, I do not believe brother @PloughBoy is making one size fit all as you have suggested.

Those good people you are talking about, "loves darkness rather than light"! Those good people you are talking about are enemies of GOD! Those good people you are talking about hate you and the Christ that is in you. They hate Christ and they hate you! Be not deceived. Those good people you are talking about are wolves in sheep clothes. And sometimes appears as Angels.

Scripture is clear, those not for Jesus are against Him, and if against Him are against any follower of Him.

They are good people in their own eyes, they gain Christian principles, many say they follow Christian principles, but they are not Christ's, Christ is not in them, they are therefore the enemy of Christ. They love 'the world' not Christ, they belong to sin, the world and the devil, they are not saved, they are lost souls, they don't accept they ate sinners, they won't come into the light, because it will reveal their sins. They do not love the Lord thy God with all their heart, with all their soul and all their mind, they love the world.

We are to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves, we are to see through their beliefs, they have created a cozy life for themselves, they are proud of themselves, not of God.

The enemy of souls is cunning, he does not attack such people, they are already lost souls.

We are either for God or we are against Him. We are saved or we are lost, we are in the light or in darkness, there is nothing in between, no wall to sit on, there is no luke warm.

Blessings

 

[Dave M]

Take a look at 1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord, Himself, will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. "

There are those who put That trumpet with the trumpets in Revelation. And I believe they are at a different time.

Good good thanks for the share @Sue D. ,,,,,,,,,

we know that the Lord comes back and at the end of tribulation with all the saints that have died for his second coming, to me the saints that have died seem to naturally fit the description of the "dead in Christ" meaning those in heaven get there glorified bodies first when they come back with Jesus,, and while in the air they call up all those "left" after the tribulation to receive there glorified bodies, then altogether they will descend on to earth to start the 1000 year rule................

.and the question to pre-trib people.... does the Lord have three comings?? because the bible is clear he only has a second coming, I think the earth atmosphere is considered the earth.

just speculating because there is no way anyone can say with 100% certainty that they know when the rapture is, they have to take words like dead in Christ,,, second coming and give them different meanings maybe,, to make pre-trib work, . for Me I am going to do my best to prepare myself with the Lords help of course............

either way if we do go through tribulation I think it is clear we will be spared from the wrath of God, but it will still be a very difficult time, look at all the apostles they died for Jesus, we are told over and over in the bible that we must loose are life to gain life,,,,,,,,,

this life is all about testing and maturing in Christ, . going through the tribulation to prove ourselves worthy, should excite us in a way should it not??