If the church is “Raptured” in this generation, what are the people left still, in the “Institutionalized church”, called?

[PloughBoy]

Yes, I fully understand pertaining to Jesus and the whole earth. my remark pertaining to John direct letter to body of believers in the “Roman Empire” in which “Caesar” declared himself as God. The World was Rome in declaration. And those who did not recognise Caesar as God died violent deaths. And the deaths of Christian Was Rome entertainment and “Nero” was know among Christians in secret as “The Beast”! For his beastly acts he did upon Christian men in the arena. And also Remember what happen to “Polycarp”! Who was a Student if Apostle John.

 

[PloughBoy]

Rev 3:7; "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: He who is holy, who is true, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, and who shuts and no one opens, says this:
Rev 3:8; 'I know your deeds. Behold, I have put before you an open door which no one can shut, because you have a little power, and have kept My word, and have not denied My name.
Rev 3:9; 'Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that I have loved you.
Rev 3:10; 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

Chapter 2 and 3 of Revelation were written to the church. (7 churches) Now whether it was simply the churches of that time, or includes all churches up until Jesus
returns could be debated.

Rev 1:19; "Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things.
Rev 1:20; "As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

It seems Jesus is saying here... "the things which are" - possibly the time which this was written... and the "the things which will take place after these things" - possibly the future, or end times.

God’s word is so powerful way beyond our imagination and so far reached it is unspeakable into its contents that a mortal man cannot conceived its full intents.

 

[B-A-C]

The World was Rome in declaration. And those who did not recognise Caesar as God died violent deaths. And the deaths of Christian Was Rome entertainment and “Nero” was know among Christians in secret as “The Beast”! For his beastly acts he did upon Christian men in the arena. And also Remember what happen to “Polycarp”! Who was a Student if Apostle John.

So if this is true...

Rev 19:11; And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.
Rev 19:12; His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.
Rev 19:13; He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14; And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.
Rev 19:15; From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
Rev 19:16; And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
Rev 19:17; Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, "Come, assemble for the great supper of God,
Rev 19:18; so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great."
Rev 19:19; And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
Rev 19:20; And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
Rev 19:21; And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

When did this happen? Now it seems about a thousand years after happens.. this will happen. So if the beast is already in the lake of fire, then that means Satan must be also. When did that happen?

Rev 20:2; And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
Rev 20:3; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

Rev 20:7; When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Rev 20:8; and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
Rev 20:9; And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Do you believe that Satan is already in the Lake of Fire?

 

[Dave M]

Now whether it was simply the churches of that time, or includes all churches up until Jesus
returns could be debated.

this is good

my personal and thought and could be wrong,

is that the churches also represent the different types of people in each church, just to be clearer I would say if you go to the same building to worship, there will be people who are more in line with the church of Phildelpha and then some people will be more in line with say another church like Laodicea. I have also herd the churches represent times in history.

 

[Samson2020]

is that the churches also represent the different types of people in each church, just to be clearer I would say if you go to the same building to worship, there will be people who are more in line with the church of Phildelpha and then some people will be more in line with say another church like Laodicea. I have also herd the churches represent times in history.

Each church is YOU at different times during your walk of faith. Each has an overcoming reward and each should be attained by every one that is the elect.
As you read through the different addresses to each church do you see yourself in one of the churches? And do you see where maybe you used to be within
another but have overcome that overcoming issue?

 

[Sue D.]

Those churches -- they were various churches with their various good points and bad points back Then AND can be applied to churches NOW.

@samson -- those were actual churches being addressed -- and church are made up of People. A pastor / elder of a body of believers is to be leading those people in the Word of God. -- sounds like you are leaning towards 'good works' done by the individual and you're Also bring in the subject of being of the 'elect' or not. No one in this world knows who the 'elect' are -- only God the Father does. So 'we' -- are to be sharing the Gospel unto salvation with all who are willing to listen.
A church is a body Of believers and probably some non-believers. Let's hope that our lives will be a positive and that others Will want to learn more about and from you by visiting the church Group.

There will Always be issues in a person's life And within the church Body. And we Are to go to God's Word to find answers. No person Or church will be perfect until we are with Jesus Christ. But 'we' Are to be working towards more and more Christ-likeness.

 

[Brother-Paul]

B-A-C said:
Now whether it was simply the churches of that time, or includes all churches up until Jesus
returns could be debated.

Each church is YOU at different times during your walk of faith. Each has an overcoming reward and each should be attained by every one that is the elect.
As you read through the different addresses to each church do you see yourself in one of the churches? And do you see where maybe you used to be within
another but have overcome that overcoming issue?

Although I understand all 3 options are possible, I do wonder. The church is the ekklesia, Christ's Bride, we are spiritual stones built up together as Christ Body His church.

If each church was me, or you, as you say, that would say to me I could be like this church this morning, when I had met two other saved souls, but I could bea different church this afternoon when I met with a different group of saved believers, tomorrow I could be yet another? That theory doesn't make sense to me, it makes least sense of the three options.

The church is the body of Christ, the body or saved souls, the ekklesia.

Now I guess it could be possible over time, that seems feasible, as does seven churches it the time of the writing to the seven churches.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Those churches -- they were various churches with their various good points and bad points back Then AND can be applied to churches NOW.

@samson -- those were actual churches being addressed -- and church are made up of People. A pastor / elder of a body of believers is to be leading those people in the Word of God. -- sounds like you are leaning towards 'good works' done by the individual and you're Also bring in the subject of being of the 'elect' or not. No one in this world knows who the 'elect' are -- only God the Father does. So 'we' -- are to be sharing the Gospel unto salvation with all who are willing to listen.
A church is a body Of believers and probably some non-believers. Let's hope that our lives will be a positive and that others Will want to learn more about and from you by visiting the church Group.

There will Always be issues in a person's life And within the church Body. And we Are to go to God's Word to find answers. No person Or church will be perfect until we are with Jesus Christ. But 'we' Are to be working towards more and more Christ-likeness.

I agree with most of what you say Sue.

The exception would be the church being made up of believers and none believers, that is incorrect, it is what happens today, but it is not right.

The church, in scripture, is the ekklesia, it consists of saved souls. The none believers are church goers, kuriakon goers, they still belong to sin, the world and the devil because they are not saved.

Blessings

 

[PloughBoy]

So if this is true...

Rev 19:11; And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.
Rev 19:12; His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.
Rev 19:13; He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14; And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.
Rev 19:15; From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
Rev 19:16; And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
Rev 19:17; Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, "Come, assemble for the great supper of God,
Rev 19:18; so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great."
Rev 19:19; And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
Rev 19:20; And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
Rev 19:21; And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

When did this happen? Now it seems about a thousand years after happens.. this will happen. So if the beast is already in the lake of fire, then that means Satan must be also. When did that happen?

Rev 20:2; And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
Rev 20:3; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

Rev 20:7; When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Rev 20:8; and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
Rev 20:9; And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Do you believe that Satan is already in the Lake of Fire?

You must understand my views in your beginning presentation Of The Revealing of Jesus Christ chapter 19:11. We are leaving Heaven from the Coronation and the Great Dinner feast the church, Angels, Jesus coming to “Reign” on earth for a thousand years. for most likely Micheal the Arch- Angel has a great chain and he will grab that Dragon “Satan” and cast him into a deep pit binding him for a thousand years. Then after a thousand years he will lose him
To deceive others and make war with the saints....etc.

I am pre-tribulation not taught this concept but by my own reading even before I knew this concept had a name as pre-tribulation.

 

[PloughBoy]

my view when we used the word “The Church” in translations, it create a lot of problems. Concerning translating others parts of Scripture. It causes so much confusion. Among the called out ones.

 

[Brother-Paul]

my view when we used the word “The Church” in translations, it create a lot of problems. Concerning translating others parts of Scripture. It causes so much confusion. Among the called out ones.

Look at the Greek which the translation is taken from brother. Ekklesia

Church for building is kuriakin, the difference being, ekklesia is in the Bible, kuriakon isn't, it was introduced by the RCC, not sure of the date when I think 500-600 AD. The facts are correct, the date may not be.

 

[PloughBoy]

Brother, go even back further to “circe” deeper in to “circe”.

This is the word used in most English versions as a rendering of the New Testament's Greek word ekklesia. Ekklesia really means "a calling out", a meeting or a gathering. Ekklesia is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew qahal, which means an assembly or a congregation. Neither ekklesia nor qahal means a building. Tyndale, in his translation, uniformly translated ekklesia as "congregation" and only used the word "churches" to translate Acts 19:37 for heathen temples! Whence the word "church", then? Ecclesiastical sources give the origin as kuriakon or kyriakon in Greek. However, to accept this. one has to stretch your imagination in an attempt to see any resemblance. Also, because kuriakon means a building (the house of Kurios=Lord), and not a gathering or meeting of people, as the words ekklesia and qahal imply, therefore this explanation can only be regarded as distorted, even if it is true. Our common dictionaries, however, are honest in revealing to us the true origin. They all trace the word back to its Old English or Anglo-Saxon root, namely circe. And the origin of circe? Any encyclopaedia, or dictionary of mythology, will reveal who Circe was. She was the goddess-daughter of Helios, the Sun-deity! Again, another form of Sun-worship, this time the daughter of the Sun-deity, had become mixed with the Messianic Faith.



Some interesting facts emerge from the study of the word circe. The word is related to "circus", "circle", "circuit", "Circean", "circulate", and the various words starting with "circum-". The Latin pronunciation could have been "sirke" or "sirse". The Old English word circe may have been pronounced similarly to "kirke", or even "sirse".



However, Circe was in fact originally a Greek goddess where her name was written as: Kirke, and pronounced as such—just as in numerous similar cases of words of Greek origin, e.g. cyst and kustis, cycle and kuklos, cylinder and kulindros. The word "church" is known in Scotland as kirk, and in German as Kirche and in Netherlands as kerk. These words show their direct derivation from the Greek Kirke even better than the English "church". However, even the Old English circe for "church", reveals its origin.



Let us rather use the Scriptural "Assembly" or "Congregation", and renounce the word that is derived from Circe, the daughter of the Sun-deity!

 

[Sue D.]

Well -- in the NKJV -- the word "church'" is used -- 1 Corinthians 1:2 "To the church of God which is at Corinth......."

And Galations 1:2 "..and all the brethren who are with me, To the churches of Galatia:"

So -- You are free to use the term "assembly or congregation"

 

[B-A-C]

Some of this may be true. But the "building" (temple, tabernacle, synagogue, etc..) was ordained by God. He told the Jews how to build it.
Also there is one in heaven. Apparently made by God.

Heb 8:2; a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.

Heb 8:5; who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, "SEE," He says, "THAT YOU MAKE all things ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN WHICH WAS SHOWN YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN."

Heb 9:11; But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;
Heb 9:12; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Heb 9:23; Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24; For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;

 

[B-A-C]

I am pre-tribulation not taught this concept but by my own reading even before I knew this concept had a name as pre-tribulation.

What does this have to do with whether Satan is in the Lake of fire or not?

 

[PloughBoy]

Well -- in the NKJV -- the word "church'" is used -- 1 Corinthians 1:2 "To the church of God which is at Corinth......."

And Galations 1:2 "..and all the brethren who are with me, To the churches of Galatia:"

So -- You are free to use the term "assembly or congregation"

Yes I am not saying cast the Bible away but when see the word “church” view it in mind as “ the call out ones” or “the congregation of Christ” the people of “the Way”. Like “ The “7 congregations of Asia” or the. Have these thoughts in your mind.

 

[Sue D.]

I'll keep the Word of God in mind when reading it.

 

[PloughBoy]

What does this have to do with whether Satan is in the Lake of fire or not?

Ok Satan is not cast into the lake of fire until the end of the universe when all the old is done away even death Sheol then behold HE makes everything brand new, the old is forgotten and remembered no more. You will not even remember a creature as of Satan.

 

[PloughBoy]

Some of this may be true. But the "building" (temple, tabernacle, synagogue, etc..) was ordained by God. He told the Jews how to build it.
Also there is one in heaven. Apparently made by God.

Heb 8:2; a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.

Heb 8:5; who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, "SEE," He says, "THAT YOU MAKE all things ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN WHICH WAS SHOWN YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN."

Heb 9:11; But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;
Heb 9:12; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Heb 9:23; Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24; For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;

A temple, a Tabernacle, a synagogue are completely different . God did not tell the Jewish people to build a Synagogue. The Temple had a purpose of courts.[halls]. The Tabernacle was a tent! For a purpose. But a Synagogue man’s invention. Not Gods command. There will be no temple in Heaven either, for God with replace it too! For he will be our temple and for now we are His Temple.

 

[PloughBoy]

The news here in Michigan is talking a lot about “Easter Sunday” Easter eggs and the costume Easter bunny is celebrating all over advertising. Happy Easter!