Inbreeding's Beginning

[Beetow]

• Gen 2:21a-22a . . So the Lord God cast a deep sleep upon the man; and, while he
slept, He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that spot. And the Lord God
fashioned the rib that He had taken from the man into a woman;

The Hebrew word translated "rib" is tsela' (tsay-law') and Gen 2:21-22 contains the
only two places in the entire Old Testament where it's translated with an English
word representing a skeletal bone.

In the other twenty-nine places, it's translated "side" which is really how tsela'
should be translated because according to Gen 2:23, the material taken from
Adam's body included some of his flesh; and seeing as how the life of the flesh is in
the blood (Lev 17:11) then I think it's safe to assume that the flesh that God took
from Adam's body to construct the woman contained some of his blood too so that
the flesh was living flesh instead of dead.

In other words: we can accept "rib" if we allow it a description similar to a
barbecued rib; a serving that contains not bone alone rather, bone, blood, and
meat.

The most important thing to note in Gen 2:21a-22a is that Eve wasn't created
directly from the soil as Adam was, viz: Eve wasn't a discreet creation, i.e. her
gender isn't a unique specie.

Being as Eve was constructed with Adam's flesh, blood, and bones, then the flesh,
blood, and bones of her body were reproductions of his flesh, blood, and bones with
the result that Eve came into the world biologically related to Adam, i.e. he was her
father and she was his first child; so any discussion of incest has to go all the way
back to the very beginning and start with the first couple instead of Cain and/or
Seth.
_

 

[Hitch]

• Gen 2:21a-22a . . So the Lord God cast a deep sleep upon the man; and, while he
slept, He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that spot. And the Lord God
fashioned the rib that He had taken from the man into a woman;

The Hebrew word translated "rib" is tsela' (tsay-law') and Gen 2:21-22 contains the
only two places in the entire Old Testament where it's translated with an English
word representing a skeletal bone.

In the other twenty-nine places, it's translated "side" which is really how tsela'
should be translated because according to Gen 2:23, the material taken from
Adam's body included some of his flesh; and seeing as how the life of the flesh is in
the blood (Lev 17:11) then I think it's safe to assume that the flesh that God took
from Adam's body to construct the woman contained some of his blood too so that
the flesh was living flesh instead of dead.

In other words: we can accept "rib" if we allow it a description similar to a
barbecued rib; a serving that contains not bone alone rather, bone, blood, and
meat.

The most important thing to note in Gen 2:21a-22a is that Eve wasn't created
directly from the soil as Adam was, viz: Eve wasn't a discreet creation, i.e. her
gender isn't a unique specie.

Being as Eve was constructed with Adam's flesh, blood, and bones, then the flesh,
blood, and bones of her body were reproductions of his flesh, blood, and bones with
the result that Eve came into the world biologically related to Adam, i.e. he was her
father and she was his first child; so any discussion of incest has to go all the way
back to the very beginning and start with the first couple instead of Cain and/or
Seth.
_

So??

 

[Beetow]

It could be argued that Eve was Adam's sister; but neither she nor he were
produced by a common biological ancestor; rather, he was constructed from dirt
and she was constructed from Adam. That makes Eve his descendant rather than
his sibling.

It had to be that way because God wanted all human life to biologically descend
from just one source.

• Acts 17:26 . . From one man he made every nation of men

[ Every nation of men includes Pygmies, Inuit, Hispanic, African, Native American,
Germanic, Semitic, Polynesian, Aboriginal, Asian, etc. etc. ]

The inescapable conclusion to draw from God's decision is that Adam had to sleep
with his daughter to produce Cain, Abel, and Seth because there just wasn't any
other women in his world at the time. And besides: it was God brought them
together, viz: they were genuinely a match made in Heaven.
_

 

[Beetow]

Another biblical case of @home incest takes place in Genesis 19:30-38 where the
two surviving daughters of Abraham's nephew Lot got their dad drunk, and
themselves knocked up.

The girls weren't motivated by naughty passions (though considering where they
grew up it wouldn't be surprising). They were honestly concerned about one-- or
possibly both --of two things: they'd either finish out their lives as childless old
maids or their father's family tree would terminate with him.

Anyway, long story short, the eldest girl became preggers with a baby boy that she
named Moab. From that little guy eventually came the very famous woman named
Ruth-- herself destined to become one of David's distant grandmothers via her son
Obed.
_

 

[Beetow]

Ruth-- herself destined to become one of David's distant grandmothers via her son
Obed.

David is a key player in Christ's biological genealogy.

• Rev 22:16 . . I am the offspring of David

The Greek word translated "offspring" is genos (ghen'-os) which basically refers to
kin, viz: one's relatives.

Christ's kinship with David is quite a bit more specific in Rom 1:1-3 where it says:

"Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh"

The Greek word translated "seed" in that passage is sperma (sper'-mah) which is a
bit ambiguous because it can refer to spiritual progeny as well as to biological
progeny; for example:

• Gal 3:29 . . If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed.

That seed is obviously spiritual progeny; whereas David's is biological because it's
"according to the flesh" i.e. his physical human body.

So then, Jesus' flesh is David and Bathsheba's flesh, and David's flesh in turn is
Boaz and Ruth's flesh, and Boaz's flesh in turn is Adam and Eve's flesh.

It's all pretty interesting when considering that Jesus' flesh is the result of two of
the most famous cases of incest on record-- Adam and Eve, and Lot and his eldest
daughter. But that was back when incest was much safer than it is now.
_

 

[Waggles]

But that was back when incest was much safer than it is now.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

• Gen 2:21a-22a . . So the Lord God cast a deep sleep upon the man; and, while he
slept, He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that spot. And the Lord God
fashioned the rib that He had taken from the man into a woman;

The Hebrew word translated "rib" is tsela' (tsay-law') and Gen 2:21-22 contains the
only two places in the entire Old Testament where it's translated with an English
word representing a skeletal bone.

In the other twenty-nine places, it's translated "side" which is really how tsela'
should be translated because according to Gen 2:23, the material taken from
Adam's body included some of his flesh; and seeing as how the life of the flesh is in
the blood (Lev 17:11) then I think it's safe to assume that the flesh that God took
from Adam's body to construct the woman contained some of his blood too so that
the flesh was living flesh instead of dead.

In other words: we can accept "rib" if we allow it a description similar to a
barbecued rib; a serving that contains not bone alone rather, bone, blood, and
meat.

The most important thing to note in Gen 2:21a-22a is that Eve wasn't created
directly from the soil as Adam was, viz: Eve wasn't a discreet creation, i.e. her
gender isn't a unique specie.

Being as Eve was constructed with Adam's flesh, blood, and bones, then the flesh,
blood, and bones of her body were reproductions of his flesh, blood, and bones with
the result that Eve came into the world biologically related to Adam, i.e. he was her
father and she was his first child; so any discussion of incest has to go all the way
back to the very beginning and start with the first couple instead of Cain and/or
Seth.
_

That is some strange logic...If you read the bible you'll see that Adam was created both male and female...Then God took Eve, the woman out of Adam...

Genesis 1:27
27 So God created humankind in his own image;
in the image of God he created him:
male and female he created them.

Then Adam, wanting a companion like himself spoke to God, and God took Eve out of Adam...She was the same flesh as Adam, human, but she was not his daughter but a part of Adam...

 

[Waggles]

If you read the bible you'll see that Adam was created both male and female..

This is getting crazier and sillier as a topic / thread.
So Adam was transgender ... a hermaphrodite ??
Wow that is certainly a new one.

And what does make you think that Genesis 1:27 is about Adam?

 

[joestue]

what's wrong with mankind spontaneously self reproducing on "its" own?

(other than completely uncontrollable population explosions and collapses)

suppose science discovers that we can actually induce spontaneous reproduction in human women without male *****, will the whole scientific community jump up and down and scream "God doesn't exist" while admitting that the virgin birth actually happened?

 

[Waggles]

suppose science discovers that we can actually induce spontaneous reproduction in human women without male

And when do you suppose that "science" might discover this fantasy ...
in any case such speculation of the impossible is completely irrelevant to the birth of Jesus our Saviour

Luke 1:30 And the angel said to her, Fear not, Mariam: for thou hast found grace with God.
31 And lo, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bear a Son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
34 And Mariam said unto the angel, How shall this be, since I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said to her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also what is begotten shall be called holy, Son of God.

 

[Beetow]

FAQ: Why was it not wrong for Adam, Eve, Lot, and Lot's daughters, to practice
incest? And let's not forget Isaac's parents Abraham and Sarah; they were brother
and sister!

A: According to Deut 5:2-4, Rom 4:15, Rom 5:13, and Gal 3:17 the laws of God are
not retroactive, viz: incest is not a violation where there is no rule against it.
_

 

[Beetow]

What?

The human body's vitality has undergone quite a bit of deterioration over the years.
For example; prior to the Flood, the body could get by on fruits, vegetables, and
grains. After the Flood, its diet was adjusted to include meats.

Apparently the inclusion of meat in Man's diet after the Flood was intended
primarily as a source of natural supplements to make up for the human body's
gradually lessening ability to manufacture all its own essential vitamins; much the
same reason that modern vegans resort to synthetic supplements in order to avoid
contracting deficiency diseases.

According to an article in the Dec 10, 2013 Science section of the New York Times,
scientists believe that the early human body was able to manufacture all of its own
essential vitamins; but over time gradually lost the ability to manufacture all but K
and D.

That seems plausible to me seeing as how Noah lived to be 950 years old, but by
the time of Abraham, the human life span had decreased considerably to 175;
which the Bible describes as a ripe old age (Gen 25:7-8) so the human body was
obviously a whole lot healthier before it became necessary for God to prohibit incest
in the covenant that His people agreed upon with Him in the books of Exodus, Leviticus,
Numbers, and Deuteronomy.
_

 

[joestue]

Why was it not wrong for Adam, Eve, Lot, and Lot's daughters, to practice
incest?

Just because God didn't write down a law through a prophet, has nothing to do with the fact that everyone knows its wrong.

as for polygamy, it seems to be that it was outlawed around the time man became aware of std's

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

This is getting crazier and sillier as a topic / thread.
So Adam was transgender ... a hermaphrodite ??
Wow that is certainly a new one.

And what does make you think that Genesis 1:27 is about Adam?

Do you think God is hermaphrodit? He has both male and female qualities too. You're right...It is a silly discussion....God says No incest,,,inbreeding and He began it? What kind of sense does that make? None at all....So who began this silliness?

 

[Brother Paul]

• Gen 2:21a-22a . . So the Lord God cast a deep sleep upon the man; and, while he
slept, He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that spot. And the Lord God
fashioned the rib that He had taken from the man into a woman;

The Hebrew word translated "rib" is tsela' (tsay-law') and Gen 2:21-22 contains the
only two places in the entire Old Testament where it's translated with an English
word representing a skeletal bone.

In the other twenty-nine places, it's translated "side" which is really how tsela'
should be translated because according to Gen 2:23, the material taken from
Adam's body included some of his flesh; and seeing as how the life of the flesh is in
the blood (Lev 17:11) then I think it's safe to assume that the flesh that God took
from Adam's body to construct the woman contained some of his blood too so that
the flesh was living flesh instead of dead.

In other words: we can accept "rib" if we allow it a description similar to a
barbecued rib; a serving that contains not bone alone rather, bone, blood, and
meat.

The most important thing to note in Gen 2:21a-22a is that Eve wasn't created
directly from the soil as Adam was, viz: Eve wasn't a discreet creation, i.e. her
gender isn't a unique specie.

Being as Eve was constructed with Adam's flesh, blood, and bones, then the flesh,
blood, and bones of her body were reproductions of his flesh, blood, and bones with
the result that Eve came into the world biologically related to Adam, i.e. he was her
father and she was his first child; so any discussion of incest has to go all the way
back to the very beginning and start with the first couple instead of Cain and/or
Seth.
_

Let us just add a couple fun factoids....bones are the source of Red Blood cells, yet these are largely stem cell in nature, but they do contain DNA....after the original couple the Lord does not our create bodies (these are formed by pro-creation) but the spirit (referred to as the life giving breath) enters the form after it is developed (while still in the womb in our case but after His pattern)...after Adam was formed (made - yatzar) He breathed into him the breath of life and he BECAME a living soul.

So when created (bara) in Genesis 1 humanity is simultaneous (male and female) but when we are "formed" or "made" (yatzar) in Genesis 2, the male was first.

Just consider what these fun factoids might mean in your conversation

 

[th1bill]

It could be argued that Eve was Adam's sister; but neither she nor he were
produced by a common biological ancestor; rather, he was constructed from dirt
and she was constructed from Adam. That makes Eve his descendant rather than
his sibling.

It had to be that way because God wanted all human life to biologically descend
from just one source.

• Acts 17:26 . . From one man he made every nation of men

[ Every nation of men includes Pygmies, Inuit, Hispanic, African, Native American,
Germanic, Semitic, Polynesian, Aboriginal, Asian, etc. etc. ]

The inescapable conclusion to draw from God's decision is that Adam had to sleep
with his daughter to produce Cain, Abel, and Seth because there just wasn't any
other women in his world at the time. And besides: it was God brought them
together, viz: they were genuinely a match made in Heaven.
_

But what is the point of you generating this repulsive line of conversation and what do you hope to see happen beyond pissing YHWH off?

 

[Reba1]

Love ya @th1bill

 

[joestue]

But what is the point of you generating this repulsive line of conversation and what do you hope to see happen beyond pissing YHWH off?

i didn't find the idea offensive at all. it does solve the chicken or the egg problem.

i think the biggest evidence for evolution not working out is that we haven't seen humans split into multiple species in the last 50,000 years, but we might have come close to doing so, iirc they found a first generation, human-Neanderthal hybrid in France a few years ago, and sure enough she would have been sterile had she not died as a child.

my wife has issues not feeling human as she has some strange health problems and her dad is probably 5% Neanderthal, her mom is from northern europe. genetically they are separated by my guess, at least 20,000 years.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

i didn't find the idea offensive at all. it does solve the chicken or the egg problem.

i think the biggest evidence for evolution not working out is that we haven't seen humans split into multiple species in the last 50,000 years, but we might have come close to doing so, iirc they found a first generation, human-Neanderthal hybrid in France a few years ago, and sure enough she would have been sterile had she not died as a child.

my wife has issues not feeling human as she has some strange health problems and her dad is probably 5% Neanderthal, her mom is from northern europe. genetically they are separated by my guess, at least 20,000 years.

Are you all right?!!!

 

[complete]

Being as Eve was constructed with Adam's flesh, blood, and bones, then the flesh,
blood, and bones of her body were reproductions of his flesh, blood, and bones with
the result that Eve came into the world biologically related to Adam, i.e. he was her
father and she was his first child; so any discussion of incest has to go all the way
back to the very beginning and start with the first couple instead of Cain and/or
Seth.

'And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam,
and he slept: and He took one of His ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man,
made He a woman, and brought her unto the man.
And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh:
she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.'
(Gen 2:21-23)

Hello @Beetow,

I believe that where God is silent then so should we be. So as God has not referred to Adam as the Father of Eve, then neither should we. Abram and Sara, though man and wife, were brother and sister, but she was the daughter of Abram's father, and not the daughter of his mother. (Genesis 20:11-12), so she was a half-sister. Regarding the daughters of lot, their offspring had a shameful beginning and their lives were equally shameful.

'And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
(Eph 5:11-12)

In Christ Jesus
Chris