Is it Biblical and of "Sound Doctrine" for Pastors to call the true Children of God, "Their sheep" because I hear them call GOD' sheep their sheep.

[PloughBoy]

Words are very important, especially the Word OF God. Never i say never have I read in the WORD of God that God or Jesus has said watch over 'your" sheep or lambs. I am a person who does not play with the use of words especially to arrived to "self preservation". This term is all over the board, "My Sheep", "This is how you help "your Sheep" email us for representatives to draw up a program to help your sheep manage their finances, .....etc.

 

[BlessedCreator]

Words are very important, especially the Word OF God. Never i say never have I read in the WORD of God that God or Jesus has said watch over 'your" sheep or lambs. I am a person who does not play with the use of words especially to arrived to "self preservation". This term is all over the board, "My Sheep", "This is how you help "your Sheep" email us for representatives to draw up a program to help your sheep manage their finances, .....etc.

I admit that I am usually just as critical as you concerning God's word but I have never though of this one until I read your post. I believe I myself have referred to others ministries and their viewers/followers as their "flock" but really I think you're right and we should probably call them God's sheep, for they are not our own but His, and even those that preach/teach His people are sheep too. "Feed my sheep" said Jesus. Though I must say I don't think it's great a deal if teachers want to refer to their viewers/followers/people they teach as their flock. It would be better if they said something along the lines of "the sheep/or part of the flock have been entrusted with by Jesus "to give them meat in due season" (Matthew 24:45).

 

[PloughBoy]

Would you believe, i just got another email, I am not listing the name of this ministry but a potion of the letter. Take notice. It read as follow:

"One facet is the one-on-one meeting. In these instances pastors and church leaders provide care for struggling marriages, the death of a loved one, or depression. My hope is that pastors have been diligent to know their sheep and provide one-on-one care despite the distance we have all been asked to keep."

I mark it in yellow,

PS this is a large ministry group!

 

[Sue D.]

Responding to the title of the thread. Pastors' are shepherding their 'flock'. Their congregation. Pastors are teaching their congregation God's Word. Pastors' / teachers are spiritual gifts. So -- What is the 'problem'?

 

[PloughBoy]

Responding to the title of the thread. Pastors' are shepherding their 'flock'. Their congregation. Pastors are teaching their congregation God's Word. Pastors' / teachers are spiritual gifts. So -- What is the 'problem'?

That is the problem'

 

[Sue D.]

Expound please

 

[brighthouse98]

I would never use that word to describe any. ( 1 Cor 1:2) saints yes. For should I ever place myself above my fellow saints?? NO! ( Rom 12:3) a sheep is untrained,a sheep can be led by anyone with a stick,900 died in Jonetown,Jim Jones called his flock sheep. Jesus can say this,he created us,I cannot. I know he told John feed who's sheep?? Not his!!! MY SHEEP!! ( John 21:15-17)

 

[Sue D.]

So -- you're suggesting that 'we' are only to follow Jesus Christ as the good shepherd and no human being Period? And we should Not be 'following' a 'man' , but Jesus Christ, yes.

Then why are bishops/ elders, etc. left in charge of local body of believers and 'we' are told to And why are 'we' given guidelines about the qualifications For leadership behind the pulpit.

And, yes, the Jim Jones murdering of the 900 people -- they Did trust him -- so we Do need to be careful as to what people Are teaching -- is it God's Word or something else.

A pastor Does have the responsibility to feed / care for 'we' like 'sheep' Need to become part of the flock of sheep.

Jesus Christ ascended back up to heaven and has left 'us' to minister to each other, -- like the local body of believers that were formed as a result of the missionary journeys in Asia. Except that 'we' are now in many other countries.

 

[Hekuran]

'Pastor' is an old word which means shepherd. The metaphor is used in the New Testament. See Acts 20:28 for example.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Greeting brothers

It is an interesting comment which I have heard before, and like your God loving guys I too do everything to be right with God.

Now if we search Google we will find at first it is a common JW term, but it doesn't just stop with them as we know.

It is actually in scripture though.

1 Peter 5:2
Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseer, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly.

As Hekuran says, Pastor is an old word meaning shepherd.

All the OP needed was confirmation in scripture regarding what I feel was a fair question, hopefully this will clarify the points raise.

In His Love

Shalom

 

[brighthouse98]

Notice in Acts 20:28 and 1 Peter 5:2 it says God's flock, not our flock. I suppose if you really want to give a name to those who are to GUIDE us I would call those Pastors overseers. A shepherd of the flock does not own the flock is my only point. They, as Moses did tend the flock.

 

[PloughBoy]

I would never use that word to describe any. ( 1 Cor 1:2) saints yes. For should I ever place myself above my fellow saints?? NO! ( Rom 12:3) a sheep is untrained,a sheep can be led by anyone with a stick,900 died in Jonetown,Jim Jones called his flock sheep. Jesus can say this,he created us,I cannot. I know he told John feed who's sheep?? Not his!!! MY SHEEP!! ( John 21:15-17)

(John 10)
4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Reality: Sheep are actually surprisingly intelligent, with impressive memory and recognition skills. They build friendships, stick up for one another in fights, and feel sad when their friends are sent to slaughter. They are also one of the most destructive creatures on the planet. Intelligent.

 

[PloughBoy]

Notice in Acts 20:28 and 1 Peter 5:2 it says God's flock, not our flock. I suppose if you really want to give a name to those who are to GUIDE us I would call those Pastors overseers. A shepherd of the flock does not own the flock is my only point. They, as Moses did tend the flock.

I agree, Ministers are servants! In true biblical form, they are [slaves]! FEEDERS!

That is why Jesus had to tell Peter three times, so he would get the message! A Jewish person understands the meaning of statements and words of repetition of "3". "feed my lambs, tend my sheep, Feed my Sheep" it is a "language syntax" taking place in the text"! And Peter understood it, when the word is applied in 3's. Let one count up the cost, before he or she takes up this honor!

(John 21).
15So when they had broken their fast, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon,'son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. 16He saith to him again a second time, Simon,'son of John, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Tend my sheep. 17He saith unto him the third time, Simon,'son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

 

[PloughBoy]

Some Pastors have things backwards, they are to be slaves for the body of Christ! They are suppose bring sheep water and tend to them like a slave would do for his master. They are suppose to live like John the Baptist and Jesus, Paul, Andrew, Bartholomew,, and not like "Pope John-Paul" the 1st.
They are supposed to hand out the "tithe" not take it in!
Some of these leaders have started out, by taking seed offering from the offering plate and planting a field for their own crops to increase, 10 t0 20 even up to 100 fold.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Some Pastors have things backwards, they are to be slaves for the body of Christ! They are suppose bring sheep water and tend to them like a slave would do for his master. They are suppose to live like John the Baptist and Jesus, Paul, Andrew, Bartholomew,, and not like "Pope John-Paul" the 1st.
They are supposed to hand out the "tithe" not take it in!
Some of these leaders have started out, by taking seed offering from the offering plate and planting a field for their own crops to increase, 10 t0 20 even up to 100 fold.

Greetings brother,

One ways system for giving is very common, and it is not just the RCC. Many of the institutionalised 'Churches' are sat on fortunes, not just assets, but money they are reinvesting in worldly deals. They are playing with money given to God, in good faith, they are playing with money from their own people. TV evangelists are another group.

We will all have to answer for the things we do in this life, for the church and for others.

Bless you

 

[Ivan Chamurliev]

Words are very important, especially the Word OF God. Never i say never have I read in the WORD of God that God or Jesus has said watch over 'your" sheep or lambs. I am a person who does not play with the use of words especially to arrived to "self preservation". This term is all over the board, "My Sheep", "This is how you help "your Sheep" email us for representatives to draw up a program to help your sheep manage their finances, .....etc.

I agree on this one with you, but sometimes it is just a question of a wrong wording being used, but some of them can still be doing the right thing. I known of course that many pastors might be really taking their congregation as their OWN and that's wrong. But is a matter of how they live on the inside of their hearts. There are people for example that barely want to call themselves pastors, because they say that Jesus is the main pastor/shepherd ( and this is right ), but still the way they treat their congregation might not be right.
So what's important is that the pastor or leader can be guided and filled by the Holy Spirit, so that he can lead in the right way the congregation. What is true is that with time going the people learnt some wrong attitudes and expressions, but I think the intention of their heart is important.

 

[PloughBoy]

I agree on this one with you, but sometimes it is just a question of a wrong wording being used, but some of them can still be doing the right thing. I known of course that many pastors might be really taking their congregation as their OWN and that's wrong. But is a matter of how they live on the inside of their hearts. There are people for example that barely want to call themselves pastors, because they say that Jesus is the main pastor/shepherd ( and this is right ), but still the way they treat their congregation might not be right.
So what's important is that the pastor or leader can be guided and filled by the Holy Spirit, so that he can lead in the right way the congregation. What is true is that with time going the people learnt some wrong attitudes and expressions, but I think the intention of their heart is important.

I am not trying to be more pessimistic here but i do acknowledge your agreement. When Apostle Paul in his writings addresses the word "sin" in most cases, it arrives to the point and means: (miss the mark). And his lead comes from "Jesus". "Sin is Miss the Mark" [missing the Bulls Eye]. on a target.

A adultery committed by a married woman, must likely comes from her hearth. Sins comes from the heart! People do evil things from their heart. But they do not see how evil their choices are in the site of Gods Word. The reason i am mentioning "The Heart" so many christians now days are talking about "from the Heart" Christian are to move by their Minds and not their hearts!

New International Version
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?

New Living Translation
“The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?

English Standard Version
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?

Berean Study Bible
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure—who can understand it?

New American Standard Bible
"The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?


Pastors are to act according to the Word of God [mind] and not their hearts! If they move from their hearts they are in error [sinning].
That is the problem, the sheep belongs to God, Feed them what He says and not what you feel they need.
You remember what "King Saul" did? When God told him to kill everything,

(1 Samuel 15)
7Then Saul attacked the Amalekites all the way from Havilah to Shur, near the eastern border of Egypt. 8He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword. 9But Saul and the army spared Agag and the best of the sheep and cattle, the fat calves b and lambs—everything that was good. These they were unwilling to destroy completely, but everything that was despised and weak they totally destroyed.

10Then the word of the Lord came to Samuel: 11“I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.” Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the Lord all that night.

And remember King Saul was filled with the "Holy Spirit" as well.

 

[Ivan Chamurliev]

I am not trying to be more pessimistic here but i do acknowledge your agreement. When Apostle Paul in his writings addresses the word "sin" in most cases, it arrives to the point and means: (miss the mark). And his lead comes from "Jesus". "Sin is Miss the Mark" [missing the Bulls Eye]. on a target.

A adultery committed by a married woman, must likely comes from her hearth. Sins comes from the heart! People do evil things from their heart. But they do not see how evil their choices are in the site of Gods Word. The reason i am mentioning "The Heart" so many christians now days are talking about "from the Heart" Christian are to move by their Minds and not their hearts!

New International Version
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?

New Living Translation
“The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?

English Standard Version
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?

Berean Study Bible
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure—who can understand it?

New American Standard Bible
"The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?


Pastors are to act according to the Word of God [mind] and not their hearts! If they move from their hearts they are in error [sinning].
That is the problem, the sheep belongs to God, Feed them what He says and not what you feel they need.
You remember what "King Saul" did? When God told him to kill everything,

(1 Samuel 15)
7Then Saul attacked the Amalekites all the way from Havilah to Shur, near the eastern border of Egypt. 8He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword. 9But Saul and the army spared Agag and the best of the sheep and cattle, the fat calves b and lambs—everything that was good. These they were unwilling to destroy completely, but everything that was despised and weak they totally destroyed.

10Then the word of the Lord came to Samuel: 11“I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.” Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the Lord all that night.

And remember King Saul was filled with the "Holy Spirit" as well.

"A wise man's heart is at his right hand, but a fool's heart at his left"
Ecclesiastes 10:2
There are two types of heart. Our natural, I mean our sinful nature and the new one that God can give us - the one on the right side. I was referring to that one.
I agree, our heart is of stone and deceitful, but not the one that comes from God. As Christians we can still take heed to the old one and that's why we need to be careful. The book of proverbs also speaks a lots about the heart. I am speaking for those scriptures as well. We need always to let God in our heart, so that He can write His laws there and keep on changing it.

 

[PloughBoy]

"A wise man's heart is at his right hand, but a fool's heart at his left"
Ecclesiastes 10:2
There are two types of heart. Our natural, I mean our sinful nature and the new one that God can give us - the one on the right side. I was referring to that one.
I agree, our heart is of stone and deceitful, but not the one that comes from God. As Christians we can still take heed to the old one and that's why we need to be careful. The book of proverbs also speaks a lots about the heart. I am speaking for those scriptures as well. We need always to let God in our heart, so that He can write His laws there and keep on changing it.

GOD, did not say that! That is a proverb saying of a man of his own thoughts and wise thoughts of others he has encounter during His life time and recorded in the "Bible". Which so have travel down through many of religions of all kinds. Known fact about wisdom books. Example": wisdom discribe wisdom as a woman in proverbs. But the revealing of the NT wisdom is "The Son of God" [Jesus Christ]. Rest assure "The Heart of a man" is " Desperately wicked" so we must renew are mind". And lean not upon our own understanding but trust and believe the Word that comes out of the mouth of God is true..