Israel and the Church Contrasted

[NetChaplain]

When contrasting Israel and the Church, the differentiation between them should never be understood within the concept of favoritism concerning God’s love and promises towards both, for “God is no respecter of persons” (Job 34:19; Act 10:34; Rom 2:11; 1Pe 1:17). Therefore, though the eternal authoritative position of both vary (Mat 19:28; Luke 22:30), neither vary in His love for them.

As it is well known, prayerful and studious research must be exercised when reading Scripture, esp. when there is increased obscurity concerning certain subjects and issues. At present it is my speculation that God’s plan for eschatological Israel (Israelites saved after seeing Christ during the Millennium—John 20:29) is to “inherit the earth” because it corresponds to the Jewish promises.

God give us to apply patience and persistence towards our receiving what and when He desires to give us understanding concerning that which is contained within His “Word of Truth.” God be blessed!

Risen With Him

-NC (Bob)
Israel and the Church Contrasted

Extent of Biblical Revelation – Israel occupies nearly four-fifths of the text of the Bible. As to primary application, the Church occupies slightly more than one-fifth of the Word.

The Divine Purpose – Every covenant, promise and provision for Israel is earthly, and they continue as a nation on the earth when it is created anew.

Every covenant or promise for the Church is for a heavenly reality, and she continues in heavenly citizenship when the heavens are recreated.

Birth – Israelites become what they are by physical birth. Each one is begotten of human parents and their inheritance is transmitted by human generation.

Christians become what they are by spiritual birth. They are begotten directly by God and are therefore His legitimate offspring. Their inheritance is immediate in that each is a child of God.

Nationality – Israel belongs to the earth and to the world-system. Though above all nations in Jehovah’s reckoning, they are still in the world as one of its nations.

The Church is composed of all nations, including Israelites, and sustains no citizenship here, but instead the believers are strangers and pilgrims.

Ministry – Israel was appointed to exercise an influence over the nations of the earth, and this she will do perfectly in the coming kingdom age. Previously she undertook no missionary work, and proclaimed no gospel. She maintained her self-centered worship*—she faced inward toward the tabernacle or temple, and all her benevolence was consumed on her own worship.

Immediately upon her formation, the Church is constituted a foreign missionary society. It is her obligation to face outward, and to those of her company is given the task of evangelizing the people of the world in each generation.

The Death of Christ – That nation which demanded the death of Christ and who said by their officials, “His blood be on us, and on our children,” is guilty of that death; yet they will be saved as a nation on the ground of that sacrifice.

A present and perfect salvation to the praise of God is the portion of the Church through the offering of the Lamb of God.

The Father – To Israel God is known by His primary titles, but not as the Father of the individual Israelite*.

The Christian is actually begotten of God and has every right to address Him as Father.

Christ – To Israel, Christ is Messiah, Immanuel, and King.

To the Church, Christ is Savior, Lord, Bridegroom, Head and Life.

The Holy Spirit – Only in exceptional instances and for unusual service did the Holy Spirit come upon an Israelite, and He withdrew as freely as He came, when the purpose was accomplished.

The Christian is permanently indwelt by the Spirit of God; and actually, he is not saved apart from this relationship to the Spirit (Rom 8:9).

Governing Principle – For fifteen centuries the Law of Moses was Israel’s rule of daily life (Ps 103:17, 18).

Members of the Body of Christ, being wholly perfected in Him, are under the beseechings and directions which grace provides.

Divine Enablement – The Law system provided no enabling power for its achievement. There was constant failure because of the weakness of “the flesh” to which it was addressed (Rom 8:3).

To the Church is provided, by the indwelling Spirit, enablement for every requirement. The Apostle Paul could say, “Sin shall not have dominion over you”; the reason being, “Ye are not under law, but under grace” (Rom 6:14).

Christ’s Return – He returns as King to gather Israel into the land (Deu 30:1-8; Jer 23:7, 8; Mat 24:31).

The Lord Jesus Christ returns for His Bride and takes her with Him into heaven’s glory (John 14:1-3).

Position – Isaiah declares, “But thou, Israel, art my servant” (Israel 41:8). Though individuals in Israel attained to great usefulness, as did the prophets, priests and kings, yet they never reached a higher distinction than that they were the servants of Jehovah.

Christians compose the Church, forever in Christ, and are members of the family and household of God (the believers services are no longer as “servants” - John 15:15—NC).

Christ’s Earthly Rein – Israelites are appointed to be subjects of the King in His earthly kingdom.

Members of the Body of Christ are to reign with the King as His Consort in the kingdom.

Priesthood – Israel has a priesthood. The Church is a priesthood (1Pet 2:5, 9; Rev 1:6; 5:10; 20:6).

Judgments – Israel must yet come into judgment (Mat 25:1-13). The Church has been judged, and will not come into judgment (John 5:24; Rom 8:1).

-- L S Chafer


(Notations are poster’s comments and are to be considered opinions as such)

* “self-centered worship”: worship that centered on what the individual was required to do to secure their right standing with God (Num 15) during the prior dispensation, which involved “a worldly sanctuary,” wherein the practices were performed contained “carnal ordinances” (Heb 9:1, 10; Eph 2:15).

Now, only Christ-centered worship is accepted for son-ship, which is centric of what Christ did (unlike contingency on the obedience to the Mosaic Law) for our right standing with God in the present dispensation.

* “Father of the individual Israelite”: there is God being father of mankind, as in being creator of us all, similar to Abraham being a “father of many nations” (Gen 17:4, 5); there is God being fatherly, as in caring “as a father,” i.e. father of a nation and not necessarily of an individual, as is the present relationship of the believer through Christ; there is God being Father of His children, as in being their Father by their relationship with the Lord Jesus, which also relates to the Lord Jesus’ instruction concerning prayers of the Christian to be addressed to “our Father.”

 

[NoHype]

There are so... many WRONG suppositions in those writings, it makes one wonder just what those kind of men are doing all day with their time, because they obviously have not been given eyes to see, and ears to hear.

The same Israel of the Old Testament came into... the New Covenant under Jesus Christ when they believed on His death and resurrection by Faith. They believed by Faith as Abraham did 430 years before the law was given through Moses. God promised He would preserve a remnant of Israel in The Gospel, and He did according to Apostle Paul in Romans 11. That believing seed did not become Christ's Church when Gentiles heard and believed, for the believing remnant of Israel has always... been Christ's Church, even from Old Testament times. This is why Apostle Paul showed in Galatians 3 that those of Faith are also called the children of Abraham, because it was Abraham who God first gave The Gospel Promise to.

Christ's Church today is God's Israel, and God's Israel is Christ's Church. That has always been, for the Church in the wilderness was led by Christ according to Apostle Paul:

1 Cor.10
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant , how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them : and that Rock was Christ.

The name Israel is the new name God gave to Jacob after he wrestled with the Angel of The Lord and overcame, and then asked for a blessing. The name means 'to overcome with God's help'. Do you get it brethren? The name 'Israel' is a name applied to God's 'overcomers'! Jacob inherited the Gospel Promise all the way back from Abraham. It then went to his son Joseph, and Joseph was separated from his brethren into Egypt. Then God's Birthright promises continued with Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh.

Just as how the ten tribes of Israel under Ephraim as head were separated by God from the house of Judah (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi), likewise that represents how Joseph was separated from his brethren. In Joseph's separation, God kept him and blessed him, and gave him to interpret Pharoah's dream, which Pharaoh then placed Joseph second in command in Egypt to preserve and 'feed' the people of Egypt, AND... other peoples of the nations around them! Who cannot see The Gospel Promise parallel with that involving The Gospel going to the Gentiles??

Did Joseph's own brethren recognize him when they met him? No!!! Do today's Jews recognize what happened to the ten lost tribes of Israel being scattered among the Gentiles with The Gospel going to both together, and their becoming the Israel of Christ's Church?? No, and so likewise many of my brethren in Christ's Church living on men's doctrines cannot see that either!

Most of the OP writings are about men's doctrines of Dispensationalism. It's main purpose is to try and separate Christ's Church apart from the concept of 'Israel'. On the other extreme, the unbelieving Jews try to do the same thing with their doctrines against Christ Jesus. In reality both are extremist doctrines devised by men which does not align with God's Word. Anyone can pull a single idea out of God's Word and apply it however they want and make it 'sound' believable, but staying within the context of written Scripture line upon line, chapter by chapter, will NOT... allow that. Those delvers in men's doctrines count on the Christian believer not having self-discipline in God's Holy Writ. It's very easy to get sucked in by asps speaking smooth things when one is not learned in their Bible.

 

[NoHype]

As it is well known, prayerful and studious research must be exercised when reading Scripture, esp. when there is increased obscurity concerning certain subjects and issues. At present it is my speculation that God’s plan for eschatological Israel (Israelites saved after seeing Christ during the Millennium—John 20:29) is to “inherit the earth” because it corresponds to the Jewish promises.

That was an idea first developed by John Nelson Darby in 1830's Great Britain, which became to called Dispensationalism. The idea of Darby's Dispensationalist doctrine was seeing God's Word divided up into various time periods of God dealing with separate peoples in His Plan of Salvation. But Dispensationalsim has a greater purpose, which is to drive support for the Pre-tribulational Rapture theory which Darby also started in 1830's Great Britain. In that, it was important for Pre-trib students to be taught that the seed of Israel is a separate entity apart from Christ's Church.

The reason for that doctrine of keeping Israel separate, was so they could proclaim Christ's Church is gathered by Christ prior to the tribulation, to Heaven, with Israel left-behind to suffer through the tribulation. And that Heaven is where our Lord Jesus and His Church will dwell, i.e., in the Heavenly away from the earth. Per their view, Israel must remain a nation and dwelling upon the earth while Christ's Church has a different dwelling, in Heaven. That idea is in support of their Pre-trib Rapture theory, i.e., they've first got to get you to believe that God really IS a respecter of persons in order to push that lie. (Now you know WHY they often begin those kind of outlays using that Bible verse that God is no respecter of persons, i.e., they know a thinking person will likely bring that question up once they hear their special habitation in Heaven ideas.)

Continue with the following writers by them, and you will see those two points pop up again and again. Thing is, those two points, being raptured prior to the tribulation, and being gathered to live evermore up in the clouds in the Heavenly away from the earth, are not Biblical. They are doctrines formed by men, not by God in His Word.

Israel and the Church Contrasted

Extent of Biblical Revelation – Israel occupies nearly four-fifths of the text of the Bible. As to primary application, the Church occupies slightly more than one-fifth of the Word.

Very poor comparison. God began contrasting His Church in the beginning within the Old Testament writings. That is... where The Gospel Message is first mentioned, even through David about 1,000 years prior to Christ's coming to die on the cross (Psalms 22). Some among Israel were given to understand, and looked for Christ's coming, while the rest were blinded and rebellious. What Apostle Paul taught in Galatians and Romans about The Gospel with Abraham having Faith and it be accounted to him as righteous, disproves completely any idea of man that Israel is not part of Christ's Church. God's Promise by Faith given first through Abraham sealed the link between the seed of Israel and The Gospel. Just because some of the seed did not believe never meant The Gospel was not fulfilled and accepted first among the seed of Israel; remember that every time you read your New Testament which was written through God's chosen seed of Israel.

The Divine Purpose –

Every covenant, promise and provision for Israel is earthly, and they continue as a nation on the earth when it is created anew.

Another speculative assumption. They are giving this in contrast to Christ's Church, thinking we will have our dwelling off the earth. They have no clue about the future world to come and what it is going to be like per God's Word. In the latter part of Revelation, and the last verse of Ezekiel, God said He will dwell with us, on the earth. In Isaiah 45 He said He created this earth to be inhabited, to be lived upon. In Genesis 2 He shows us His Garden of Eden was once upon this earth, His River flowing out of His Garden to feed four other rivers upon the earth, two of which can still be located on earth today. In Ezekiel 40 through 47, Christ is reigning with His elect priests (Zadok) upon the earth IN... THE HOLY LANDS. In Rev.5 we are show we shall reign... on the earth. So what Bible have those folks been reading?

Every covenant or promise for the Church is for a heavenly reality, and she continues in heavenly citizenship when the heavens are recreated.

In other words per their view, not The Bible's, God does not really return back to this earth to live like He said, but stays up in Heaven with them. Have they bothered to clear that with Him? Once again, notice how their view has the main purpose of supporting their Pre-trib Rapture theory, to get you thinking that God is not really going to return to live upon this earth with His elect Church under His Son. Strange though, because Acts 1 and Zechariah 14 specifically proclaims our Lord Jesus will return to this earth in like manner how He ascended into Heaven from the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem.

Birth –

Israelites become what they are by physical birth. Each one is begotten of human parents and their inheritance is transmitted by human generation.

Not quite. God's Promises are transmitted to the seed of Israel that BELIEVE on Him and His Son. One born of the seed of Israel CAN... be "cut off" from not only His Promises, but His Salvation too! Those Promises are likewise given to believing Gentiles also, and both together make up Christ's Church today, of both believing Israelites and Gentiles together, no separation. That's what Apostle Paul taught, and our Lord Jesus also in John 17.

Christians become what they are by spiritual birth. They are begotten directly by God and are therefore His legitimate offspring. Their inheritance is immediate in that each is a child of God.

So those of the seed of Israel cannot have that "spiritual birth", nor do they need it??? Do you get what this cat is saying? He is saying the seed of Israel has no need to believe on Jesus Christ to be saved! Does this writer not sound just like... a Pharisee Judaizer!?! The unbelieving Jews are those who think they are saved just... by being born of the seed of Israel. I've got news for this them, and that writer; ALL must believe on the death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth to be given God's promised Salvation, and that includes those born of the seed of Israel also! (Rom.11). If one of the seed remains in 'unbelief', like Apostle Paul said, they will be "cut off". That means no Salvation for the unbelieving, regardless of birth. And that means God is no respecter of persons as written.

Nationality –

Israel belongs to the earth and to the world-system. Though above all nations in Jehovah’s reckoning, they are still in the world as one of its nations.

Israel is... the Salvation name. These cats don't even know what the name means! They have a very difficult time with Apostle's Paul mention of "the commonwealth of Israel" that the Gentiles he preached that to, their having come into the promises and covenants to Israel through the Blood of Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2). So remember that one, they cannot escape that Truth. There will be no Salvation to Christ's Church without Israel, for those are who the 'foundation' of Christ's Church is built upon, the Apostles and Old Testament prophets, with Jesus as The Head Cornerstone (Ephesians again).

Well, that's enough silliness with men's doctrines. Only reason I did this comment was to show how easy it is to reveal doctrines that originate from men, and not from God in His Word.

 

[norapture]

HoHype we agree on something else.
Jesus broke down the middle wall.
Its always been by faith.
If they don't have the Spirit of Christ they are none of his.

 

[NetChaplain]

The same Israel of the Old Testament came into... the New Covenant under Jesus Christ when they believed on His death and resurrection by Faith. They believed by Faith as Abraham did 430 years before the law was given through Moses. God promised He would preserve a remnant of Israel

Hi NH - I believe those before and after Abraham (John 8:56) and all other believers concerning Christ's prophecies (which does not include the generality of Israel) are included in the Body. Those among the final surviving generation of Israel in the Millennium who will believe after seeing Christ (John 20:29) will not be in the Body but remain on the new earth to inherit it.

 

[NoHype]

Those among the final surviving generation of Israel in the Millennium who will believe after seeing Christ (John 20:29) will not be in the Body but remain on the new earth to inherit it.

Not what my Bible reveals.

The believing Gentiles inherit WITH... faithful Abraham. All those of Faith have become the children of Abraham. That's what Apostle Paul said in Galatians 3.

Luke 13
26 Then shall ye begin to say , "We have eaten and drunk in Thy presence, and Thou hast taught in our streets."
27 But he shall say , "I tell you, I know you not whence ye are ; depart from Me, all ye workers of iniquity."
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
If one is not part of that group of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the prophets, then they are NOT taking part in God's Kingdom to come, but are thrust out. The Dispensationalist belief of men that Christ's Church is going to live apart from those Jesus mentioned there are signing onto a Love Boat cruise that leads to nowhere.

 

[B-A-C]

Isa 56:1; Thus says the LORD, "Preserve justice and do righteousness, For My salvation is about to come And My righteousness to be revealed.
Isa 56:2; "How blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who takes hold of it; Who keeps from profaning the sabbath, And keeps his hand from doing any evil."
Isa 56:3; Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely separate me from His people." Nor let the eunuch say, "Behold, I am a dry tree."
Isa 56:4; For thus says the LORD, "To the eunuchs who keep My sabbaths, And choose what pleases Me, And hold fast My covenant,
Isa 56:5; To them I will give in My house and within My walls a memorial, And a name better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name which will not be cut off.
Isa 56:6; "Also the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD, To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD, To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath And holds fast My covenant;
Isa 56:7; Even those I will bring to My holy mountain And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples."

The Gentiles of the old testament were held to the same standards as the Israelites.

Lev 24:22; 'There shall be one standard for you; it shall be for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the LORD your God.'"
Lev 24:23; Then Moses spoke to the sons of Israel, and they brought the one who had cursed outside the camp and stoned him with stones. Thus the sons of Israel did, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

Ecc 12:13; The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person.

Here are some different translations of Rom 2:12;
(GW) Here's the reason: Whoever sins without having laws from God will still be condemned to destruction. And whoever has laws from God and sins will still be judged by them.
(NLT) When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God's written law. And the Jews, who do have God's law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it.

 

[NetChaplain]

The believing Gentiles inherit WITH... faithful Abraham. All those of Faith have become the children of Abraham.

All from among Israel who continued in disobedience within the prior dispensation did not enter God's "rest" (Heb 3:18, 19), but ended in hell, i.e. rich man (Luke 16:22), same for the unbelieving Gentiles (remaining world). This excludes believers such as Abraham and others who were, "carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom" (paradise--heaven).

Those from among Israel and the Gentiles, who believe in Christ in the present dispensation, will be the Body of Christ. The primary subject in much confusion concerns those from among Israel who will be the last surviving generation of Israel. These are the ones concerning whom God said, "I will put My Spirit within you" (Eze 36:27), which is what He presently does for all believers (Phil 2:13). Those within this group will be separate in a position and authority than those of the Body, and I believe this is the intention of Romans 11:26, e.g all among the last surviving Isrealites will be saved.

My speculation is that the Body will be eternally ruling (Mat 19:28; Luke 22:30) with Christ over these people (last of the Isrealites) who've inherited the new earth.

 

[norapture]

All from among Israel who continued in disobedience within the prior dispensation did not enter God's "rest" (, ), but ended in hell, i.e. rich man (), same for the unbelieving Gentiles (remaining world). This excludes believers such as Abraham and others who were, "carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom" (paradise--heaven).

Those from among Israel and the Gentiles, who believe in Christ in the present dispensation, will be the Body of Christ. The primary subject in much confusion concerns those from among Israel who will be the last surviving generation of Israel. These are the ones concerning whom God said, "I will put My Spirit within you" (), which is what He presently does for all believers (). Those within this group will be separate in a position and authority than those of the Body, and I believe this is the intention of , e.g all among the last surviving Isrealites will be saved.

My speculation is that the Body will be eternally ruling (; ) with Christ over these people (last of the Isrealites) who've inherited the new earth.

NetChaplain in Revelation 13:8 it says all that dwell upon the earth, shall worship the beast, if their names isn't written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the word.

So I guess what I'm asking if their name is in the book of life, what make anyone any better, than some one else
To rule over them ?

Also in Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast in the lake of fire.
So they either worshiped the beast or their names must have been written in the book of life. And if it was written in the book was they not also part of the body ( church) . Even some of the disciples argue who would be the greatest in the kingdom. But Jesus said it wouldn't be that way. No one will be any better than no one else.

 

[norapture]

NetChaplain also Romans 11:23 says And they also , IF they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
So if they began to believe in Jesus Christ then they will be grafted in again. And then that will make them believers, or part of the body ( church).
And if they remain unbelievers they will remain cut off.
St.John 3:18. He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[NetChaplain]

Hi NR - There is much Biblical doctrine concerning Israel in the last days (Millennium) that is obscure, thus I've learned to be speculative in my conceptions concerning it.

Therefore, it's my speculation that John 20:29 has some reference which relate to the last surviving Israelites, all of whom will be saved (Rom 11:26), and that this is centric to the phrase "blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed", e.g. there will be Jews who will be saved after seeing the Lord Jesus during the Millennium who will not be as "blessed" as all who believe in Him before they see Him (as previously posted).

 

[norapture]

Hi NR - There is much Biblical doctrine concerning Israel in the last days (Millennium) that is obscure, thus I've learned to be speculative in my conceptions concerning it.

Therefore, it's my speculation that has some reference which relate to the last surviving Israelites, all of whom will be saved (), and that this is centric to the phrase "blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed", e.g. there will be Jews who will be saved after seeing the Lord Jesus during the Millennium who will not be as "blessed" as all who believe in Him before they see Him (as previously posted).

NetChaplain you seem to believe the Lord will show himself to the Israelites then they will believe.
But Matthew 16:4 Jesus says no sign will be giving except the sign of prophet Jonas. Which is the same as Jonas was in the whales belly 3 days and 3 nights so will the son of man be in the heart of the earth 3 days and 3 nights. This is the gospel and they have to believe just like everyone else for there is no respect of persons with God.

Now in Romans 11:26. Do u believe all of Israel of the flesh was saved?
Or could this be the ones of the promise?
Because Paul says in Romans 9:1-10 verse 6-for they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.
7-neither because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8- That is, They which are the children of the flesh, ( these are not the children of God) but the children of the PROMISE are counted for the seed.

OK what promise the promise giving to Abraham that he would be the farther of many nations. So how is he the farther of many nation ? Because the promise was Christ and if you are Christ's then Abraham is our farther.
Romans 4:13-18

So who was that seed that was promised to Abraham?
Galatians 3: 15-18
Verse 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made, He saith not, And to seed's , as many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

So you can see all of Israel will be saved. But not Israel of flesh, but the one's that Christ's, the one's counted for the promise.
The Israel of God Galatians 6:16

 

[NetChaplain]

NetChaplain you seem to believe the Lord will show himself to the Israelites then they will believe

The group of Israelites I'm referring to are those remaining at the start of the Millennium. I believe, regardless of our inquiries, truths on this issue will continue to be somewhat obscure, but this is to no affect of one's place of salvation, just more encouragement in growth in it--since this issue in unessential doctrine toward salvation.

 

[NoHype]

NetChaplain you seem to believe the Lord will show himself to the Israelites then they will believe.
But Matthew 16:4 Jesus says no sign will be giving except the sign of prophet Jonas. Which is the same as Jonas was in the whales belly 3 days and 3 nights so will the son of man be in the heart of the earth 3 days and 3 nights. This is the gospel and they have to believe just like everyone else for there is no respect of persons with God.

Now in Romans 11:26. Do u believe all of Israel of the flesh was saved?
Or could this be the ones of the promise?
Because Paul says in Romans 9:1-10 verse 6-for they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.
7-neither because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8- That is, They which are the children of the flesh, ( these are not the children of God) but the children of the PROMISE are counted for the seed.

OK what promise the promise giving to Abraham that he would be the farther of many nations. So how is he the farther of many nation ? Because the promise was Christ and if you are Christ's then Abraham is our farther.
Romans 4:13-18

So who was that seed that was promised to Abraham?
Galatians 3: 15-18
Verse 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made, He saith not, And to seed's , as many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

So you can see all of Israel will be saved. But not Israel of flesh, but the one's that Christ's, the one's counted for the promise.
The Israel of God Galatians 6:16

Not all who 'claim' to be of the seed of Israel, are Israel. Jesus revealed that also about the false Jews in Rev.2:9 and Rev.3:9.

So when Jesus does return, and is revealed to the children of Israel, the Zechariah 12 Scripture applies, which shows the various families of the seed will mourn for Him like a long lost son. And because in Luke 23, Jesus showed they will wish for the hills and mountains to 'Fall on us', it reveals they will feel shame for not having believed on Jesus of Nazareth. So who are we to judge whether they will believe on Jesus or not? Until Lord Jesus returns, the 'blindness' of Rom.11 which God put upon the majority of them will remain.

So who are we to judge what they will believe when Jesus does... return? Hating Jews just because today they reject Jesus Christ is a doctrine of the devil, and not of Christ. Apostle Paul pointed to that emotion as conceit.

 

[NoHype]

Hi NH - I believe those before and after Abraham (John 8:56) and all other believers concerning Christ's prophecies (which does not include the generality of Israel) are included in the Body. Those among the final surviving generation of Israel in the Millennium who will believe after seeing Christ (John 20:29) will not be in the Body but remain on the new earth to inherit it.

If you are actually a real Chaplain, I can understand your job is mainly in service of The Gospel to new babes, and to oversee those on the 'milk' of God's Word. But that doesn't mean you are supposed to stay upon that 'milk', but you should be in the "strong meat" of Hebrews 5.

That means you should know better than to just accept a doctrine of men like the false pre-trib rapture theory which Jesus revealed in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 is a false doctrine of men. He showed His future coming is AFTER THE TRIBULATION, not prior to it.

As for your lack of understanding about The Gospel in Old Testament times, Jesus said that Abraham rejoiced to see His day, and was glad (John 8:56-59). And in Hebrews 7, it reveals that the Melchizedek that met Abraham was actually Lord Jesus Christ back in Old Testament times. Melchizedek offered Abraham "bread and wine" (Genesis 14:18-19). And in Galatians 3 and Romans 4, Apostle Paul revealed how The Gospel was preached to Abraham, and Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness. And thus those on the Promise by Faith are the 'children of Abraham', and INHERIT WITH ABRAHAM, Paul said.

Apostle Paul further explains about that Promise given first to Abraham, as it is about The Gospel of Jesus Christ. But it also includes God's Blessings of His Birthright, which God also first gave to Abraham.

Then that Birthright from God, which INCLUDES THE GOSPEL, went to Abraham's son Isaac, and then to Isaac's son Jacob whom God told that his seed would become "a nation, and a company of nations" (Gen.37). Then the Birthright went to Jacob's son Joseph, and then from Joseph to his two sons Ephraim and Manasseh. The many nations prophecy was repeated by Jacob to the younger Ephraim, that Ephraim's 'seed' was to become "a multitude of nations", and that his brother Manasseh also was to become "great" (Gen.48).

To this day, God's Birthright is still... with the 'seed' of Ephraim and Manasseh involving the Western Christian Nations. That is where The Gospel took hold after Jesus was rejected in Jerusalem, and The Gospel was preached to the nations of Asia Minor and Europe. Both the scattered Israelites to the West out of all 12 tribes, and Gentiles in those lands, together accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior, and became the Christian Church. Then they sent ambassadors to the nations, as per the Isaiah 19 prophecy, and more nations would convert to The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

So those false Jews who reject Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, and devise lies trying to make the deceived believe that they only represent God's chosen seed of Israel today, will appear in shame when Lord Jesus does return, and they find out how badly they treated Him and His people.