Israel

[Charlie24]

I don't believe it's by coincidence that the 3 middle letters of Jerusalem are USA, (jerUSAlem).

Like it or not the US government, of the people, by the people, for the people, is the protector of Israel by choice of the Almighty God.

We are not the premiere nation of this world by chance or intelligence, it's because we are the #1 exporter of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Great Britain once held that prestige, but they dropped the ball and God raised up a nation called the USA to take their place.

Along with the blessings that come from being the #1 exporter of the Gospel comes the responsibilities of protecting God's elect.

Isaiah 45:4

"For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me."

Because Israel thinks they know God but clearly to this day they don't, still in rebellion against Christ, God has provided security for His chosen/elect to preserve them for the day that "all of Israel will be saved."

Rom. 11:26-27

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

This is the purpose of the USA, to protect and preserve God's elect until the day draws near of their salvation.

God help us if the day comes that we should drop the ball and fall short of our calling!

 

[Hekuran]

Yes Great Britain promoted the gospel more than any other nation through the nineteenth century and early twentieth century. It came to an end not so much because the ball was dropped, but because the legacy of two centuries of exploitation, warmongering, greed and injustice finally caught up with us.

 

[Charlie24]

Yes Great Britain promoted the gospel more than any other nation through the nineteenth century and early twentieth century. It came to an end not so much because the ball was dropped, but because the legacy of two centuries of exploitation, warmongering, greed and injustice finally caught up with us.

In other words, mismanagement of God's resources through failure to recognize their purpose in this world.

 

[Hekuran]

In other words, mismanagement of God's resources through failure to recognize their purpose in this world.

Sadly it's probably more accurate to say that gospel expansion and the attempt to "civilise" other nations were a convenient cover story to distract from some horrific abuses and vicious atrocities.

 

[Brad Huber]

Yes Great Britain promoted the gospel more than any other nation through the nineteenth century and early twentieth century. It came to an end not so much because the ball was dropped, but because the legacy of two centuries of exploitation, warmongering, greed and injustice finally caught up with us.

A good start for the UK would be to empty the museums, and send back to the countries of origins, all the goods they stole. Nothing can be done to undo the deaths they caused, just like there is nothing the US can do to redeem all the unnecessary deaths we caused either.

 

[Dave M]

"And so all Israel shall be saved:

First USA has dropped the ball and can no longer be counted on at all IMO

I have always wondered what that verse actually means?? I mean All means all so does that mean all the non believing Jews are going to be saved, does that mean the Jews that rejected Jesus in his day are going to be saved ALL means ALL, so we cant say ALL only counts such and such. ,,as a matter of Fact we have Paul telling us all Israel is not Israel, so I think its safe to say just because you are a Jew you are not going to be saved, we know only followers of CHrist are going to be saved, does that mean all Followers of Christ are Israel in a spiritual sense?
Romans 9:6
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,

 

[Hekuran]

First USA has dropped the ball and can no longer be counted on at all IMO

I have always wondered what that verse actually means?? I mean All means all so does that mean all the non believing Jews are going to be saved, does that mean the Jews that rejected Jesus in his day are going to be saved ALL means ALL, so we cant say ALL only counts such and such. ,,as a matter of Fact we have Paul telling us all Israel is not Israel, so I think its safe to say just because you are a Jew you are not going to be saved, we know only followers of CHrist are going to be saved, does that mean all Followers of Christ are Israel in a spiritual sense?
Romans 9:6
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,

This article might help. It has a good discussion of the different meanings of "Israel" in the new testament.

"The true ‘Israel’ of God is not comprised of those who are outwardly descended, nor of those who perform the outward signs of obedience, but those for whom obedience springs from a change of heart, including those (gentiles) who do not have the law, but are ‘a law unto themselves’ (Rom 2.14) by doing what is right."

What is the place of Israel in the End Times? | Psephizo

Last week, I recorded a video discussion with historian Martyn Whittock, which arose out of questions he had about Israel and the End Times in the New Testament. The video is quite long, so here I offer a summary of my comments on the main questions that we explored. What is the meaning of the

www.psephizo.com

 

[Charlie24]

First USA has dropped the ball and can no longer be counted on at all IMO

I have always wondered what that verse actually means?? I mean All means all so does that mean all the non believing Jews are going to be saved, does that mean the Jews that rejected Jesus in his day are going to be saved ALL means ALL, so we cant say ALL only counts such and such. ,,as a matter of Fact we have Paul telling us all Israel is not Israel, so I think its safe to say just because you are a Jew you are not going to be saved, we know only followers of CHrist are going to be saved, does that mean all Followers of Christ are Israel in a spiritual sense?
Romans 9:6
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,

If you read the context of Romans 9 you will see that "for they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" is referring to salvation.

Rom. 9:4-7
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called."

Israel believed they were saved by the mere fact of being the descendants of Abraham. So being an Israelite was their salvation.

Paul says, NO, they are not all of the faith of Abraham as they think, only the ones who have the faith of Abraham, the faith in the Messiah are considered Israel by God. Paul is saying Israel is not saved, only a remnant.

Then in vs 7 Paul doubles down by saying "neither, because they are of the seed of Abraham, are they all children (saved).

Paul is debunking Israel's claim of national salvation in these verses.

Israel is first and foremost the natural seed of Abraham who are in Christ. That has always been a remnant.

We Gentiles in Christ are spiritual Israel in the sight of God, we are not the natural seed, but the spiritual seed of Abraham by faith, we are grafted in as Paul has told us.

 

[KingJ]

I don't believe it's by coincidence that the 3 middle letters of Jerusalem are USA, (jerUSAlem).

Like it or not the US government, of the people, by the people, for the people, is the protector of Israel by choice of the Almighty God.

We are not the premiere nation of this world by chance or intelligence, it's because we are the #1 exporter of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Great Britain once held that prestige, but they dropped the ball and God raised up a nation called the USA to take their place.

Along with the blessings that come from being the #1 exporter of the Gospel comes the responsibilities of protecting God's elect.

Isaiah 45:4

"For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me."

Because Israel thinks they know God but clearly to this day they don't, still in rebellion against Christ, God has provided security for His chosen/elect to preserve them for the day that "all of Israel will be saved."

Rom. 11:26-27

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

This is the purpose of the USA, to protect and preserve God's elect until the day draws near of their salvation.

God help us if the day comes that we should drop the ball and fall short of our calling!

Interesting post. My thoughts:

1. USA are common letters in many words. There are 222 words in the dictionary that use those letters after each other. As such it should follow that their use in names be very common.
2. I would say that 'high level' Christianity has been pushed to what it is thanks to 1. Jesus / Holy Spirit, 2 Apostles, 3, Catholic church, 4 Romans, 5 Britain and 6 Europe and USA. To single out the USA seems silly.
3. USA at large has a history of a very warped take on Christianity. The large charismatic prosperity churches that you find in every town do real damage to Christianity in the world. Every person on the planet with a working brain knows many so called Christians in these churches are flying over the cuckoos nest.
4. God is currently using Europeans and USA to protect Israel. Israel has full support from Britain, USA, Germany and France.
5. Rom 11:26-27 is speaking to Jesus. He is the only one that can turn Israel from ungodliness.

America is a great country right now, sure. Chiefly because there are 350 million people in an advanced society who mostly pay their taxes. God would definitely use them. That I believe is the A-Z of the topic of USA exceptionalism with regards to Christianity.

 

[Brad Huber]

Interesting post. My thoughts:

1. USA are common letters in many words. There are 222 words in the dictionary that use those letters after each other. As such it should follow that their use in names be very common.
2. I would say that 'high level' Christianity has been pushed to what it is thanks to 1. Jesus / Holy Spirit, 2 Apostles, 3, Catholic church, 4 Romans, 5 Britain and 6 Europe and USA. To single out the USA seems silly.
3. USA at large has a history of a very warped take on Christianity. The large charismatic prosperity churches that you find in every town do real damage to Christianity in the world. Every person on the planet with a working brain knows many so called Christians in these churches are flying over the cuckoos nest.
4. God is currently using Europeans and USA to protect Israel. Israel has full support from Britain, USA, Germany and France.
5. Rom 11:26-27 is speaking to Jesus. He is the only one that can turn Israel from ungodliness.

America is a great country right now, sure. Chiefly because there are 350 million people in an advanced society who mostly pay their taxes. God would definitely use them. That I believe is the A-Z of the topic of USA exceptionalism with regards to Christianity.

Only a few retractors in your statement. There is no large charismatic prosperity church in "every" town. Thats an assumption of yours based on rumors that you chose to believe. And the usa, just like the uk, germany, and france have conditional support of israel, always have, always will. The brits started out near the beginning of the jewish state wanting to please the arabs so much, that if they had their way, the arabs would have wiped them out. They tried to keep arms out of the hands of jews, but didnt care how much arms the arabs had. The us now has decided that they wont resupply the jews the munitions needed to accomplish its goals, unless they stand down against hamas. I dont know about germany or france, but I get the idea their support is also limited. In the UN, all of them now regularly support terrorist organizations over the jews quite often.

 

[KingJ]

Only a few retractors in your statement. There is no large charismatic prosperity church in "every" town. Thats an assumption of yours based on rumors that you chose to believe.

I don't want to argue this point too much. I think I was a bit harsh in my statement in point 3. I would rather support a Christian church that has a few 'prosperity' mistakes then not have a church at all.

A bit of googling tells me that on average 25% of the 248 million Christians in the USA are pro-prosperity message and that 40% of the 1650 megachurches preach it regularly.

It may be a good thread to create. There is a lot to consider on this topic.

And the usa, just like the uk, germany, and france have conditional support of israel, always have, always will. The brits started out near the beginning of the jewish state wanting to please the arabs so much, that if they had their way, the arabs would have wiped them out. They tried to keep arms out of the hands of jews, but didnt care how much arms the arabs had. The us now has decided that they wont resupply the jews the munitions needed to accomplish its goals, unless they stand down against hamas. I dont know about germany or france, but I get the idea their support is also limited. In the UN, all of them now regularly support terrorist organizations over the jews quite often.

I don't agree. America has always supported Israel with military aid. They have also supported Arab nations, sure, but their support of these nations is complex. Iran for example, they stopped 100% of their support in 1983. It is very hard to determine which Arab countries are friends or foes. The financial benefit from arms sales to these nations has always made it a difficult balancing act for politicians.

Right now, USA, France, Britain, Italy, Spain and Germany are unanimous in their support for Israel. That they want Hamas dealt with differently is a separate topic. I think everyone wants to see a more surgical removal of Hamas. What you need to acknowledge is the fact that they recognize Israel as a home for Jews and condemn Hamas / anyone who states that ''Palestine will free from the river to the sea''. As this implies that Jews must be removed completely from Israel. Much like these countries show full support for Taiwan's independence from China.

 

[vhusley]

First USA has dropped the ball and can no longer be counted on at all IMO

I have always wondered what that verse actually means?? I mean All means all so does that mean all the non believing Jews are going to be saved, does that mean the Jews that rejected Jesus in his day are going to be saved ALL means ALL, so we cant say ALL only counts such and such. ,,as a matter of Fact we have Paul telling us all Israel is not Israel, so I think its safe to say just because you are a Jew you are not going to be saved, we know only followers of CHrist are going to be saved, does that mean all Followers of Christ are Israel in a spiritual sense?
Romans 9:6
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,

Yes. When considering the words from Romans 11:26, we need to take two things into consideration. First….the biblical meaning of the name “Israel”. It literally translates from Hebrew as “let God prevail,” as in allowing God (who came in flesh as Jesus) have full authority in your life (even the authority to forgive one’s sin)…..instead of placing all faith in the ability of The Law to save.
So, while we, today tend think of “Israel” mainly in terms of ethnicity, nationality, or geopolitically, and view them through the lens of Jewish orthodoxy; if we consider scripture in the right context….we understand that Paul’s reference to “Israel” in his letter to the church in Rome, likely has a wider and deeper connotation.

Second, to confirm this line of thinking, I believe we need to go back to (Genesis 32:22-32) and the story of how/why God changed Jacob’s name to “Israel.”
In essence, He demonstrated that he was willing to let God prevail in his life. In response, God changed Jacob's name to Israel, meaning 'let God prevail.‘ God then promised Israel that all the blessings that had been pronounced upon Abraham's head would also be his”
I believe the “ALL” of “Israel” to which Paul refers, is indicative of Jacob’s story….in that those Jews who yield to Jesus Christ in the end times and “let Him prevail” in their lives, are those who make up the true “sons of Jacob”. I also believe this is absolutely reflected in Romans 9:6 which you quoted above.