?! Jesus a follower of El vs. Yahweh?

[cyclingseasons]

I'm reading THE BIBLE IS HISTORY BY Ian Wilson, and it mention the old split between those who call god El (and its old usage referring to Ba'al) and Theose who say Yahweh. Consider Samuel and Eli, for instance.


It occurred to me that Jesus uses 'Eli' (implying a derivitive from 'El'?) on the cross.


Can anyone tell me more about this split in usage/meaning/ source, and what this split in history could mean for those searching the true faith?

 

[Chad]

Please read this brother
http://www.talkjesus.com/showthread.php?p=57127#post57127

 

[cyclingseasons]

My question remains: Does the use of 'Eli' deriver from the older term 'El' (also the source of Isra-El)? If so, how does this reflect upon the old differences between the 'El' and 'YHWH' factions? Is there any weight to the connection of El being used in one of the sources for the old testament (verses the J and other sources identified), and/or the use of it as a varient name for Ba'al? This could also help explain the instance w/ the golden calf and other scenes in the old testement.

How would any of this effect the weight of the scriptures and the understanding of the Judeo-Christian tradition, if it wasn't nearly as solid as is often depicted, and how great would the differences be- between factions and what it could mean for Christianity?

Even if Jesus' use of Eli would show no etymological relation, this difference still seems to hold in the old testement uon which judaism and christianity are both based

 

[stephen]

Hi Cyclingseasons,

Good to see you visiting 'talkjesus' brother. But..........forgive me if I say that I am worried about you.

Your post here....for instance....quoting from whoever.......Accept this in love......put the books down and get to know Jesus.

Read the bible....this will make you a wise man. Read the book of Proverbs, .......31 chapters, a chapter each day. You will learn such a lot.....and will make you wise about life. Mix it with John's gospel. I trust that your life will be changed as a result

In His Love......and Victory

God Bless You

 

[jculver]

My question remains: Does the use of 'Eli' deriver from the older term 'El' (also the source of Isra-El)? If so, how does this reflect upon the old differences between the 'El' and 'YHWH' factions? Is there any weight to the connection of El being used in one of the sources for the old testament (verses the J and other sources identified), and/or the use of it as a varient name for Ba'al? This could also help explain the instance w/ the golden calf and other scenes in the old testement.

How would any of this effect the weight of the scriptures and the understanding of the Judeo-Christian tradition, if it wasn't nearly as solid as is often depicted, and how great would the differences be- between factions and what it could mean for Christianity?

Even if Jesus' use of Eli would show no etymological relation, this difference still seems to hold in the old testement uon which judaism and christianity are both based

I would simply say the letter "EL" together are extremely common... that's it, just a common letter pair. Also anyone who claims that Jesus was from some "faction" of Baal is out of their mind. Baal was an indifferent God who could not be reached. His people cut themselves to try and commune with him. That was CLEARLY NOT JESUS right? He wasn't teaching his disciples "cut yourselves to reach God", but prayer and fasting.

I would say that if the Holy Spirit dwells in you, you need urgently to speak with him, and ask him to clarify immediatly who the God of the bible is. I fear for you that the bible is nothing more than an "academic interest". I hope I am wrong, but your posts include some of the strangest types of biblical Doctrine I have ever heard. Focus your mind on sound doctrine, and avoid at least temporarily any more studies like this.

 

[baruch]

Hi Cyclingseasons, EL in hebrews means God, not baal. the Israelites would not say YAHWEH, as it was too sacred a name to utter, so they would use EL as in ELSHADDAI, which means Almighty God, or ADONAI, which means LORD.
So when Jesus called out "ELOIS! ELOIS" He was saying "MY GOD! MY GOD"

 

[baruch]

Can I also point out that "IMMANUEL" Means "GOD with us"

 

[jiggyfly]

I'm reading THE BIBLE IS HISTORY BY Ian Wilson, and it mention the old split between those who call god El (and its old usage referring to Ba'al) and Theose who say Yahweh. Consider Samuel and Eli, for instance.


It occurred to me that Jesus uses 'Eli' (implying a derivitive from 'El'?) on the cross.


Can anyone tell me more about this split in usage/meaning/ source, and what this split in history could mean for those searching the true faith?

Actually Yeshua cried out "Eloi, Eloi", which is Aramaic or Aramaean meaning "My God". This was one of the three most common languages of the culture in which Yeshua lived. In the Gospel of Matthew, the same passage is translated to "Eli, Eli", is literally Graecized-Hebrew word meaning "My God".

So now you can see there is no implication at all towards a derivitive from el, which is a hebrew word meaning god or almighty or God. So you are mixing up three different languages, which can cause a lot of confusion. And we know that Yahveh or YHVH or Yahwey or YHWY is not the Author of confusion.

I suggest that you consider brother Stephen's very best advice and seek Jesus and get to know Him intimately and allow Him by His Spirit to give you revelation. You will be amazed at the clarity of the Holy Spirit as he gives you understanding. He is a wonderful teacher. God bless

 

[KJV]

Hi there.
El in the Hebrew bible means god, God or gods. Elohim means God and the word Jehovah or you say Yahweh is the proper name for the God of Israel.

What you seem to be reffering to is the JEDP documentary hypotheses which developed gradually from the end of the 1700s onwards. It basically says the OT evolved gradually from a variety of about four sources, oral and written; charcterised by the names Jehovist (or Yahweist), Elohist, Deuteronomist and Priestly.

I think it is completely conjectural and gives no creedance to the divine inspiration of the bible.

A lot of scholars are leaving these theories for an approach which deals with the OT as the complete literature it is today and has been for over 2000 years. This is because these theories don't actually lead to any understanding of the text, only to more questioning, doubts and fine tuning of the theories.

I hope this is helpful.

Read Josh Mcdowels "Evidance that demands a verdict" if you would like to see an evangelical perspective.

 

[cyclingseasons]

Read Josh Mcdowels "Evidance that demands a verdict" if you would like to see an evangelical perspective.

I'll have to check it out