Marks of True Faith: Matthew 7:21-29

[Chad]

Hello family,

Please read this interesting article and share your feedback.

34. Marks Of True Faith (Matthew 7:21-29) | Bible.org

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven—only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ Then I will...

bible.org

I think many are so deceived because they think a simple prayer is accepting Jesus is enough. The Bible is clear that at must follow also. This means obedience to Christ. “Be a doer, not just a hearer”.


“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven—only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’ “Everyone who hears these words of mine and does them is like a wise man who built his house on rock. The rain fell, the flood came, and the winds beat against that house, but it did not collapse because it had been founded on rock. Everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain fell, the flood came, and the winds beat against that house, and it collapsed; it was utterly destroyed!” When Jesus finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed by his teaching, because he taught them like one who had authority, not like their experts in the law.

Matthew 7:21-29 (NET)

 

[Samson2020]

Hello family,

Please read this interesting article and share your feedback.

34. Marks Of True Faith (Matthew 7:21-29) | Bible.org

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven—only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ Then I will...

bible.org

I think many are so deceived because they think a simple prayer is accepting Jesus is enough. The Bible is clear that at must follow also. This means obedience to Christ. “Be a doer, not just a hearer”.


“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven—only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’ “Everyone who hears these words of mine and does them is like a wise man who built his house on rock. The rain fell, the flood came, and the winds beat against that house, but it did not collapse because it had been founded on rock. Everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain fell, the flood came, and the winds beat against that house, and it collapsed; it was utterly destroyed!” When Jesus finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed by his teaching, because he taught them like one who had authority, not like their experts in the law.

Matthew 7:21-29 (NET)

I would like to take a crack at this.
Let me start by saying that the words that Jesus spoke were Spirit and Life Jo 6:63. That said, those words were only for those whom the Father had given
Him over the last 2000 yrs. No need for Him to speak to those the Father did not give Him and since the words were spirit and the natural man cannot receive
the things of the spirit, one must be born again to receive them.
The workers of Iniquity as an example are people that truly believed they were of the elect group probably like you said they accepted therefore they were.
But as we see from the Lords remarks He never knew them. Hows that? The Father never drew them to Him and as such the life that is in Him was never
transferred to them. Is this their fault? No, they actually thought they were of the elect, just never drawn. i.e. deceived into thinking they were. Sound familiar?
Now we both know that the predestination of man is to become a son of God, thus all who received(were given faith to believe) in Christ were also given
the power to become the sons of God. Eph 1:5 Eph 1:11 Jo 1:12
Jesus' words are instructions to those who have received Him, not of their own doing but, of the Fathers choosing. As many as the Father hath given me??
No man can come to me except the Father draw Him? Jo 6:44 Jo 6:65
We can see a pattern developing over time that it is the Fathers choosing that brings one to the risen Lord who baptizes them in the HG and causes
them to be born again, transference of life. That said no man can become the predestined son of God without God making the first move to enable or draw.

There is more to the Bible than initially meets the eye. Some things are introductory in nature, who you are, who God is, who Jesus is, what was done and
for whom was it done. i.e finished work of the cross to pay the price for your sin, what is sin etc....
Then it deepens a little into what exactly is faith and where does heart faith come from, what is grace and how or why did we receive it from God, who is my enemy,
why must I overcome and who or what must I overcome, what is a carnal mind?
Then the answers start to roll in to the questions as we are transformed by the renewing of our mind to see the enemy of our souls, understand Gods grace
and that it was shed upon us due to the sacrifice of His Son for ALL sin not just ours but everyones 1 Ti 2:6 Col 1:20 , faith to believe in that finished work comes
from God Himself and is what one received in order to begin the process of becoming a son. For without that you would not be enabled to believe from the heart.
Rom 10:10 Not all men have faith. 2 Th 3:2

Then it gets deeper, one discovers that God has an intent with man and His intent and desire is that all men should be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth.
1 Ti 2:3-4 Then how is God supposed to save all? How could they possibly come into the knowledge of the truth?
Considering the fact that salvation is a gift and that you can not believe without the faith that comes from God nor can you attain to a state of spiritual birth
unless the Father draw you to Jesus who dispenses this to you, you can't. Which brings us right back to the workers of iniquity that He never knew.

I'm sure you have seen some of my posts before and probably do not agree with them, for now, and thats fine, but I speak the truth and lie not for I know
who I must answer to.
Paul speaks of dispensations of TIMES in Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fullness of TIMES He might gather together in one all things in Christ,
both which are in heaven and which are on earth; even in Him: Which agrees with Col 1:20 that eventually all things will be reconciled through Christ.

Some see this as the end of the first dispensation when Christ returns for His church. However that does not satisfy the ALL THINGS being gathered together
in Christ portion, only those whom the Father hath chosen in this present dispensation. a REMNANT according to grace.
So now we have a problem and are left with the question, when will the others who never even heard of Jesus as they died prior to His arrival and sacrifice?
Paul tells us plainly that when the TIMES have been fulfilled this will be the end result.
Ok then how many TIMES are there? Don't know, but we do know there is a second death.
Ok Whats that? For most here it is the end of all the world as we know it and the throwing in of everybody who God did not choose, to an eternal torment
in a lake of fire. Wrong.
Thus doesn't satisfy Eph 1:10 nor Col 1:20 nor Rom 5:18 nor 1 Ti 2:4 and a multitude of others.
So how does God get around to fulfilling His own word?
The second death is not the end of it all it is the beginning of a new dispensation of TIME. Remember the kingdom on earth only lasts for 1000 yrs. Not forever
on the earth. Why?
Because it isn't to be visible while the same things here on earth today are reconstructed to allow for another group of fruits to be perfected and thus furthering
the fulfillment of Eph 1:10 Col 1:20 And Rom 5:18

We simply have a misunderstanding of what the lake of fires true meaning or function is.
If we look closely at it to see what is put in it we see those not written in the lambs book of life-how did they not get on the list? Never called, vessels made to
dishonor and destruction by Gods choice. The Potter hath power over the clay? Rom 9:21
Satan-why? He is the tempter and must be allowed to continue His job in tempting the next group who will be given the power to become Gods sons. Is this
possible without having something or someone to overcome?
death- now why would death be in the lake of fire unless there would be sin unto death? And people actually died in the flesh. You decide.
The grave. Why? When people die is this not where they are lain?
The Beast- better understood as Government. Does this not require people to run it? Sure. And how are they to run it if they are only there to be tortured?
The False Prophet- False Religions? Why? Does this not violate the first and greatest commandment? Yes and it requires people to run it as well, but not possible
just being tormented continually with burning fire.
So as you can see there is a reconstruction of those things that exist today on earth in what could be called the first death dispensation of time.

Now lets consider just what is the torment that these people will undergo. Is it simply eternal roasting or is it rather a dip back into good and evil in the
same crucible we are in now. The torment then would be sin unto death until the Father bring each person unto Jesus who then gives them life and
they begin the process of becoming sons which is what God had predestined them to be.

In order to enter into the Kingdom one must become as a little child. What does the child do but say why, why, why, when, when, when and never stops til it is satisfied with the answers. Are we to question God? No, but we can ask questions of Him and the best ones are WHY and WHEN
Notice Jesus says to ENTER the Kingdom you must become as a child, To SEE the kingdom one must be born again. There is a difference in seeing and entering.
His words are for those who have received power to become sons of God, not for those left out by Gods choice Jo 6:65 in this dispensation.

Consider carefully what I have said and yes it is done quickly. But does this fulfill the other parts of the Bible that seem as though they cannot be reconciled
Like Eph 1:10 Col 1:20 Rom 5:18 1 Ti 4:9-11 1 Ti 2:3-4 Tit 1:2 Jo 3:35 Jo 6:39 Rom 11:25-28 1 Co 15:22-23 with current understanding?
There is a gap between 1 Co 15:23 and 24 in which Paul does not address the other dispensation of times and indeed it can be understood that this one that
we live in now is our shot at becoming sons, so why tell of another and why wait to live another life spotted by the flesh? That would indeed be torture!
At least for me.

I want to close this post with this thought;
Matt 5:18-19
For verily I say unto you, Til heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, until all be fulfilled.
Whosoever shall break one of these least commandments , and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: But whosoever
shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Why would this least in the kingdom even be there? Elected by God and He doesn't repent of His gifts and calling?
As Jesus told us that the least in the kingdom is greater than JTB. At least until JTB gets His chance to become a son of God. Afterall He wanted to be baptized
by Jesus and it wasn't water he wanted, but for now he never got it, so when does his turn come? 1 Co 15:23

Matt 13:12

 

[Hekuran]

Hello family,

Please read this interesting article and share your feedback.

34. Marks Of True Faith (Matthew 7:21-29) | Bible.org

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven—only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ Then I will...

bible.org

I think many are so deceived because they think a simple prayer is accepting Jesus is enough. The Bible is clear that at must follow also. This means obedience to Christ. “Be a doer, not just a hearer”.


“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven—only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’ “Everyone who hears these words of mine and does them is like a wise man who built his house on rock. The rain fell, the flood came, and the winds beat against that house, but it did not collapse because it had been founded on rock. Everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain fell, the flood came, and the winds beat against that house, and it collapsed; it was utterly destroyed!” When Jesus finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed by his teaching, because he taught them like one who had authority, not like their experts in the law.

Matthew 7:21-29 (NET)

Its a very sobering warning, and consistent with rest of the Bible. In John's gospel we hear Jesus say, 'if you love me, you will obey my commands'.

Part of the modern problem is in the emphasis on conversion in evangelism at the expense of discipleship.

Evangelists might encourage people to raise their hand, pray a prayer of salvation sincerely and be assured that they are saved.

But thats cheap grace. One sincere prayer does not ensure salvation unless it is followed with a lifetime of obedience.

 

[Brad Huber]

Fully agree. Satan believes in Jesus also, doesnt do him much good, the same will be said for some people.

 

[Samson2020]

Part of the modern problem is in the emphasis on conversion in evangelism at the expense of discipleship.

Evangelists might encourage people to raise their hand, pray a prayer of salvation sincerely and be assured that they are saved.

But thats cheap grace. One sincere prayer does not ensure salvation unless it is followed with a lifetime of obedience.

Fully agree. Satan believes in Jesus also, doesnt do him much good, the same will be said for some people.

Are you two actually serious?
Do you really not know how a person is saved?

It is strictly according to Gods election, not your acceptance, or prayer of salvation. Rom 11:5

He chooses you not the other way around. Col 3:12 Rom 8:33 Tit 1:1 1 Pe 1:2
This is why people claim to be Christians but do not know a thing about Christianity or what it is they are to become. 1 Minute of conversation and they
are exposed as not being spiritual Jews. Deceived.

One cannot become a real Christian and a true disciple of Jesus Christ without the Father drawing you to Jesus, then Jesus baptizing you in the HG.
You really had nothing to do with the process even though He might allow you to think you did for a while.

You'll have to explain to me some day what "cheap grace" is for it is by Gods grace that you are saved through faith and there ain't nothing cheap about it.
And one more thing the "ensure salvation" thing, what is that?
If the gift you received of salvation is indeed a gift, God does not repent of giving it to you. Eph 2:8 Rom 11:29
You may end up as one of the least in the kingdom but your still there because He chose you. Matt 5 :19

 

[Hekuran]

Are you two actually serious?
Do you really not know how a person is saved?

It is strictly according to Gods election, not your acceptance, or prayer of salvation. Rom 11:5

He chooses you not the other way around. Col 3:12 Rom 8:33 Tit 1:1 1 Pe 1:2
This is why people claim to be Christians but do not know a thing about Christianity or what it is they are to become. 1 Minute of conversation and they
are exposed as not being spiritual Jews. Deceived.

One cannot become a real Christian and a true disciple of Jesus Christ without the Father drawing you to Jesus, then Jesus baptizing you in the HG.
You really had nothing to do with the process even though He might allow you to think you did for a while.

You'll have to explain to me some day what "cheap grace" is for it is by Gods grace that you are saved through faith and there ain't nothing cheap about it.
And one more thing the "ensure salvation" thing, what is that?
If the gift you received of salvation is indeed a gift, God does not repent of giving it to you. Eph 2:8 Rom 11:29
You may end up as one of the least in the kingdom but your still there because He chose you. Matt 5 :19

Completely serious @Samson2020 Read the Bible text in the opening post.

The term 'cheap grace' comes from Dietrich Bonhoeffer's book The Cost of Discipleship. I quote...

Cheap grace means grace sold on the market like cheapjacks' wares. The sacraments, the forgiveness of sin, and the consolations of religion are thrown away at cut prices. Grace is represented as the Church's inexhaustible treasury, from which she showers blessings with generous hands, without asking questions or fixing limits. Grace without price; grace without cost! The essence of grace, we suppose, is that the account has been paid in advance; and, because it has been paid, everything can be had for nothing. Since the cost was infinite, the possibilities of using and spending it are infinite. What would grace be if it were not cheap?...

Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession, absolution without personal confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate.

Costly grace is the treasure hidden in the field; for the sake of it a man will go and sell all that he has. It is the pearl of great price to buy which the merchant will sell all his goods. It is the kingly rule of Christ, for whose sake a man will pluck out the eye which causes him to stumble; it is the call of Jesus Christ at which the disciple leaves his nets and follows him.

Costly grace is the gospel which must be sought again and again, the gift which must be asked for, the door at which a man must knock.

Such grace is costly because it calls us to follow, and it is grace because it calls us to follow Jesus Christ. It is costly because it costs a man his life, and it is grace because it gives a man the only true life. It is costly because it condemns sin, and grace because it justifies the sinner. Above all, it is costly because it cost God the life of his Son: "ye were bought at a price," and what has cost God much cannot be cheap for us. Above all, it is grace because God did not reckon his Son too dear a price to pay for our life, but delivered him up for us. Costly grace is the Incarnation of God

 

[B-A-C]

those words were only for those whom the Father had given
Him over the last 2000 yrs. No need for Him to speak to those the Father did not give Him and since the words were spirit and the natural man cannot receive
the things of the spirit, one must be born again to receive them.

Once you get the foundation wrong, everything else that follows is wrong.

The workers of Iniquity as an example are people that truly believed they were of the elect group probably like you said they accepted therefore they were.
But as we see from the Lords remarks He never knew them.

He said that about those who "commit lawlessness" or continued to "practice iniquity". But didn't say He didn't know the five foolish virgins, or the five churches He had something against, or the unfaithful steward, or the goats, or.. ( the list goes on )

No man can come to me except the Father draw Him? Jo 6:44 Jo 6:65

He draws everyone, some just refuse to come. God is no respecter of persons, He doesn't play favorites. Many are called, but only a few are chosen.

The second death is not the end of it all it is the beginning of a new dispensation of TIME. Remember the kingdom on earth only lasts for 1000 yrs. Not forever
on the earth. Why?

The second death IS the final chapter. It lasts forever, but it's the end of the story for those who go there.

Satan-why? He is the tempter and must be allowed to continue His job in tempting the next group who will be given the power to become Gods sons. Is this
possible without having something or someone to overcome?

Once Satan is in the Lake of fire. It's game over for him.

Some see this as the end of the first dispensation when Christ returns for His church.

The current age isn't the first dispensation.

We simply have a misunderstanding of what the lake of fires true meaning or function is.

Someone certainly seems to.

There is more to the Bible than initially meets the eye.

This is how cults get started. The Bible isn't enough, or it's wrong. So let's add a little here, take a way a little there.

that it was shed upon us due to the sacrifice of His Son for ALL sin not just ours but everyones

You continue to contradict yourself. You spend the whole first half saying only picks certain people, then you end with everyone gets saved.
Yes Jesus died for everyone's sin equally. Everyone can be saved. But only those who receive Him will be.

 

[Samson2020]

Once you get the foundation wrong, everything else that follows is wrong.

I agree completely and our problem is not understanding or accepting the fact that it is God that does to electing not man. That is the problem.
Once elected by God then those things Jesus spoke of concerning the kingdom can be likened unto are speaking to those who have been elected (born again)
So thank you for allowing me to strengthen my statements.

The servant who was forgiven all his debt that went and demanded that he be paid what someone else owed him is a perfect example here. Who other than one
that has received that forgiveness and is in the kingdom would be required to forgive others?
The five foolish virgins were also of those born again as they had their lamps with oil (HG) but ran out of oil (fire extinguished) all ten were waiting on their Lord to return just as we do now. Could they be lamp holders unless they were born again?

In every instance He says the Kingdom of God can be likened to, or the Kingdom of heaven can be likened to.... And then gives an example of an actual elect
that does things wrong or right and the reward for having done it right or punishment for doing things the wrong way.

I spoke of the ones whom He said He never knew as the workers of iniquity. Thus they were not of the elect as they could not have been born again. Which is the
reason He never knew them. They were never drawn by the Father to Him but through the deception as in todays "churches" I accepted therefore I am is the crowd
that they belonged to. And this blows up your case for EVERYONE having been called, as does the fact that a large number of humans died prior to the new
covenant being established. Never had an opportunity to accept or reject as you would put it. But in truth never abandoned by God for their turn will come.

He draws everyone, some just refuse to come. God is no respecter of persons, He doesn't play favorites. Many are called, but only a few are chosen.

That is your assumption like all others trying to save the world for God as if it wasn't already a finished work of the cross of Christ.
And since few are chosen whats the criteria for Gods choosing, as He is no respecter of persons?
is it not that the selection was for those predestined to be the elect in this dispensation? Similar to Jacob and Esau

The second death IS the final chapter. It lasts forever, but it's the end of the story for those who go there.

Again your misconceived notion and lack of understanding your Fathers intent.

Once Satan is in the Lake of fire. It's game over for him.

You ever ask yourself why is Satan locked up for 1000 yrs then let out to deceive the nations while the first dominion of the kingdom is still visible on the face of the
earth and the people on the earth are as the sands of the sea, whom God eventually destroys with fire from heaven? Does that not make you sit back and wonder
if Satan was already locked up why let him out so that God would have to destroy billions of people who were deceived by him?
And again your lack of vision is astounding as it is only the beginning of the second death period or dispensation. So not game over for his job is not finished until all
have come into the life purchased for them by the cross of Jesus Christ.

The current age isn't the first dispensation.

Any proof of that? For this dispensation is the first in which the true covenant is being established in each individual that God has selected to be a part of the
first dominion or kingdom.
Keep in mind that the physical was a representation of the spiritual reality so....
I will add here that the blood of the sacrifice was sprinkled 7 times before the sprinkling was complete. I will say IF because it is not written and we are to go
no further than what is written. But IF there are 7 dispensations and this one has been 2000 yrs then how long will God take to get around to bringing all
to life in Christ. Not being part of the first may be a condemnation that lasts another 12,000 yrs (speculation on my part). Wouldn't want any part of that.

You continue to contradict yourself. You spend the whole first half saying only picks certain people, then you end with everyone gets saved.
Yes Jesus died for everyone's sin equally. Everyone can be saved. But only those who receive Him will be.

No contradiction as "receive" in this case means given the faith to believe, this is how God does the electing. If man was able to receive of his own will it wouldn't
be an election according to grace it would be according to mans will. It is only according to Gods grace through the faith He supplies the one graced to believe.
Thus God is the justifier of the one who truly, from the heart, believes in Jesus. Back to original problem.
That said it is all in His hands. He condemned the entirety of the human race due to Adams disobedience, then reversed the curse and justified all the human race
because of one mans righteous act. Rom 5:18
And don't come back with the many argument as you know as well as I that many means all except Jesus for God hath concluded all in unbelief so that He might have
mercy upon all. Any human born with a carnal mind is a sinner from the womb period. And is therefore entitled to life because of the sacrifice of the Son simply
because God said so.
If He takes another 12,000 yrs to get around to it thats ok with me because He decides when each man will be elected and given the power to become a son..
"But EVERY MAN in his own order."
I would think that if I found out it might be another 12,000 yrs before I entered the kingdom I would probably be weeping and gnashing my teeth, how bout you?

 

[Hekuran]

I'm going to post the passage of Scripture again because it is extremely important - the conclusion to Jesus' first teaching in the Gospel according to Matthew. It feels like the discussion so far is deaf to Jesus' words.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven—only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’

Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’

“Everyone who hears these words of mine and does them is like a wise man who built his house on rock. The rain fell, the flood came, and the winds beat against that house, but it did not collapse because it had been founded on rock.

Everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain fell, the flood came, and the winds beat against that house, and it collapsed; it was utterly destroyed!”

When Jesus finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed by his teaching, because he taught them like one who had authority, not like their experts in the law.

Matthew 7:21-29 (NET)

 

[Samson2020]

Completely serious @Samson2020 Read the Bible text in the opening post.

The term 'cheap grace' comes from Dietrich Bonhoeffer's book The Cost of Discipleship. I quote...

Cheap grace means grace sold on the market like cheapjacks' wares. The sacraments, the forgiveness of sin, and the consolations of religion are thrown away at cut prices. Grace is represented as the Church's inexhaustible treasury, from which she showers blessings with generous hands, without asking questions or fixing limits. Grace without price; grace without cost! The essence of grace, we suppose, is that the account has been paid in advance; and, because it has been paid, everything can be had for nothing. Since the cost was infinite, the possibilities of using and spending it are infinite. What would grace be if it were not cheap?...

Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession, absolution without personal confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate.


Costly grace is the treasure hidden in the field; for the sake of it a man will go and sell all that he has. It is the pearl of great price to buy which the merchant will sell all his goods. It is the kingly rule of Christ, for whose sake a man will pluck out the eye which causes him to stumble; it is the call of Jesus Christ at which the disciple leaves his nets and follows him.

Costly grace is the gospel which must be sought again and again, the gift which must be asked for, the door at which a man must knock.

Such grace is costly because it calls us to follow, and it is grace because it calls us to follow Jesus Christ. It is costly because it costs a man his life, and it is grace because it gives a man the only true life. It is costly because it condemns sin, and grace because it justifies the sinner. Above all, it is costly because it cost God the life of his Son: "ye were bought at a price," and what has cost God much cannot be cheap for us. Above all, it is grace because God did not reckon his Son too dear a price to pay for our life, but delivered him up for us. Costly grace is the Incarnation of God

Grace is indeed expensive for it was bought with the blood of the Son. However since He bought that for mankind it is now shed on those whom the Father
has predetermined before they were ever born to be part of the first dominion, first kingdom. And given without earning or having deserved it.

My post to you was simply how is a man saved?

Your response to the cheap grace question is appreciated. And I would agree that in the context of grace being sold like any other
commodity is nothing more than deception using the fear of God to get it sold. And is indeed not grace but trinkets sold as grace, thus deception.

The last portion of the quote is more of a dealing with becoming a son through obeying the Lord for the grace to believe and be given the power to become
a son has already been given. I approach the throne according to what faith I have been graced with to receive further grace in time of need to develop into
a son whom He could be well pleased with.

There are a few misunderstandings in the quote don't you think?

Such as "What has cost God much cannot be cheap for us" This sounds as though there is a price to pay for Gods grace which is freely given, however; being
graced with the understanding of what you are to become according to Gods design is something we hold at a high price. IMO it should say "What cost God much
is not cheap to us, for we understand the cost and greatly appreciate the sacrifice.

and grace because it (grace) justifies a sinner?
We conclude that a man is justified by faith. That faith was given by grace freely.

I know it is only a quote and you did not write it so nothing said about you only the quote.

Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession, absolution without personal confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate.

OK all Catholic doctrine. But the things the writer is referring to are components of becoming a son. Not salvation. If one is elected into the kingdom by being gifted
or graced with salvation they may indeed become the least in the kingdom but at least they are still there. If one does not take up his own cross and follow Jesus he doesn't come to the same standing but has attained to less than he was offered, but still in the kingdom.
Not so sure how grace can be depicted without Jesus Christ being the center piece but I'm not a studier of religions.

I guess for me it is a OSAS issue. As salvation is according to election and not according to works then when you have been elected by the Father to receive the Son
He then gets you started by giving you the baptism in the HG and your opportunity to become the best son of God you can attain to has begun.
Whether or not you attain to the highest possible level is irrelevant because you are already in the kingdom as the gifts of God are without repentance.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't bother striving for that highest level but rather like Paul leave nothing that is attainable unattained.

 

[Samson2020]

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven—only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’

And who would bother to say Lord, Lord to Him except those who thought that they were called and chosen?
And why does He say he NEVER knew them? Never chosen, never elect, these are the I accepted therefore I am crowd. Modern Christianity at its most deceptive.

 

[Hekuran]

@Samson2020 Jesus isn't focusing on the doctrine of election here, nor is he unpicking the OSAS debate, he is giving a very stern warning about obedience to his teaching.

"What has cost God much cannot be cheap for us". Think of Jesus' words.

If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

 

[Samson2020]

@Samson2020 Jesus isn't focusing on the doctrine of election here, nor is he unpicking the OSAS debate, he is giving a very stern warning about obedience to his teaching.

"What has cost God much cannot be cheap for us". Think of Jesus' words.

If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

Not to belittle the post but the cost incurred by God was the sacrifice of the Son, but the cost to us is our own lives in order to save them, we do not pay for what has
been given to us for it was given freely of the Father (grace). However, following Jesus as a disciple does have a cost as mentioned above and as you point out he isn't focusing on election for the only ones that can receive his words are those who are the elect. The natural man cannot receive the things of the spirit, and the words
He spoke were spirit and life. John 6:63 So who other than an elect could receive His words or Him?
It is a warning to the elect of God to pick up their own cross and follow Him. To what end? To become a son of God in its fullest sense. To obtain the fullness
of God residing in you. No one other than an elect could even imagine that as a possibility, much less strive for it.

 

[Samson2020]

This is how cults get started. The Bible isn't enough, or it's wrong. So let's add a little here, take a way a little there.

Nobody ever said the Bible wasn't sufficient nor do we need to add or subtract anything but the spiritual implication of the things that happened in the physical
are for gleaning what we cannot see.
Example:
The 7th yearly sabbath of 7yrs each becomes the yr of the Jubilee in which they were to proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof
and return every man to his possession and his family. Lev 25:8-10

Why did God have them do this and is there a spiritual implication of them having to do it?

In Isaiah 61:1 Jesus says "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me, because the Lord has anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor; He has sent me to heal
the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound."

Rom 11:32 NIV God hath bound everyone over to disobedience so that He may have mercy on them all.

Would you concede that as God had bound everyone over to disobedience and that Jesus had arrived to proclaim liberty to the captives of disobedience
that this would then be the beginning of the New Covenant and the only true Covenant that was given according to promise prior to the law?
And yes I know it wasn't in effect until His death.

Is was the opening of the prison but not the complete emptying of the prison for so many remain bound (under condemnation) to this day.

Back to Lev 25. What happens when the Jubilee yr is come? Is it not liberty proclaimed to ALL the inhabitants of the land, and the returning of Every man to His
possession and family?

Are we not all children of the living God as stated in Psa 82:6

Can you phathom the spiritual implications here?

I said earlier that IF there were 7 dispensations that lasted 2000yrs each then we were looking at 12,000 more yrs for all to be made alive in Christ, However;
what do you see from what was presented?

A much longer time span than I used for each dispensation would be 7,000 yrs with a sabbath day (1000) yr rest period at the end of each 6 day (6000yr) period.
But by the end of the 49,000 yrs, total liberty would be proclaimed to ALL the inhabitants of human bodies(the land), and every man would be returned to his family which we are all a part of the family of God for we are all Gods children. Which fulfills the reconciling of all to Himself!

The first dominion of the kingdom on earth only lasts 1000 yrs. Are there six dominions that take up residence as rest periods with the final dominion being
when all will be made free from being bound and the kingdom delivered up to the Father?

The first dominion belongs to those whom the Father predestinated to have it. Mic 4:8
The exclusion of other dominions is to say the least disheartening but it can be seen as there is a first fruits unto God who get the first dominion.
Why call them first if there is no second?

 

[Hekuran]

Not to belittle the post but the cost incurred by God was the sacrifice of the Son, but the cost to us is our own lives in order to save them, we do not pay for what has
been given to us for it was given freely of the Father (grace). However, following Jesus as a disciple does have a cost as mentioned above and as you point out he isn't focusing on election for the only ones that can receive his words are those who are the elect. The natural man cannot receive the things of the spirit, and the words
He spoke were spirit and life. John 6:63 So who other than an elect could receive His words or Him?
It is a warning to the elect of God to pick up their own cross and follow Him. To what end? To become a son of God in its fullest sense. To obtain the fullness
of God residing in you. No one other than an elect could even imagine that as a possibility, much less strive for it.

Why the constant emphasis on election? I dont see any way it aids understanding of the passage.