Must one be baptised to get to heaven?
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Boanerges
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One needs to be baptized out of obedience.
If you were to accept Christ, trip and kill yourself before you got wet do you think He would reject you? Of course not salvation comes by grace through faith.
Who can baptize? Biblically there are no requirements so any believer can baptize a convert.
If you were to accept Christ, trip and kill yourself before you got wet do you think He would reject you? Of course not salvation comes by grace through faith.
Who can baptize? Biblically there are no requirements so any believer can baptize a convert.
can you explain
something further? Can one baptize themselves? Explain what baptism is per se.
If a traveler is alone in his hotel room, when he picks up a bible and begins reading and the Lord reveals Himself to the traveler and the traveler comes to salvation. Can the traveler go to a nearby pond and throw himself in and "be baptised"? ~Torie
something further? Can one baptize themselves? Explain what baptism is per se.
If a traveler is alone in his hotel room, when he picks up a bible and begins reading and the Lord reveals Himself to the traveler and the traveler comes to salvation. Can the traveler go to a nearby pond and throw himself in and "be baptised"? ~Torie
Gracealone
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Sorry, I'm sure good at goofing up post!
Got it in twice!
Got it in twice!
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Gracealone
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Baptism is an outward, confession of an inward change.....
The thief on the cross wasn't baptized ,but his heart had changed,no time to be baptized with water, but Gods word also says in Romans 10:10 , confession is made unto salvation.
In other words we will not be ashamed if we trully believe.
Right off, I don't remember which Apostle said, for Christ sent me not to Baptize but to preach the gospel.......awe, here it is.....1Corinthians 1:17 ....."For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."
If we couldn't receive salvation 'until' we were baptized, that would in fact be part of the gospel.....so it is clear, it is an outward confession of an inward change of heart.
The thief on the cross wasn't baptized ,but his heart had changed,no time to be baptized with water, but Gods word also says in Romans 10:10 , confession is made unto salvation.
In other words we will not be ashamed if we trully believe.
Right off, I don't remember which Apostle said, for Christ sent me not to Baptize but to preach the gospel.......awe, here it is.....1Corinthians 1:17 ....."For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."
If we couldn't receive salvation 'until' we were baptized, that would in fact be part of the gospel.....so it is clear, it is an outward confession of an inward change of heart.
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rizen1
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The question was must one be baptized to get into heaven ?
Well I'll tell you this water baptism means nothing if the persons heart is not right with God. Anyone can get baptized.
If we read John 3, it plainly says one must be born again to see the kingdom of God
To be born again is to be born of the spirit, those who are of the spirit do not desire the things of the flesh. They live holy lives, operate in the gifts of the spirit and the fruits of the spirit.
As for what is needed for Salvation......Faith.
We serve a mighty God, there is one baptism we all should recieve. That of the Holy Ghost.
Read Matthew Chpt 3
I'll post this verse for you.
11"I baptize you with[a] water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
Lord send your fire....we serve a mighty God.
Well I'll tell you this water baptism means nothing if the persons heart is not right with God. Anyone can get baptized.
If we read John 3, it plainly says one must be born again to see the kingdom of God
To be born again is to be born of the spirit, those who are of the spirit do not desire the things of the flesh. They live holy lives, operate in the gifts of the spirit and the fruits of the spirit.
As for what is needed for Salvation......Faith.
We serve a mighty God, there is one baptism we all should recieve. That of the Holy Ghost.
Read Matthew Chpt 3
I'll post this verse for you.
11"I baptize you with[a] water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
Lord send your fire....we serve a mighty God.
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Gracealone
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What exactly do you mean by, Lord send your fire?
Please explain?
The Lord baptized me one day on a dirt road, in simply touching my life, and filling me with his spirit, speaking to me, saving my life, and letting me know I belonged to him.
I hear that phrase often, and it seems to mean different things to different people, so wondering......
:thumbs_upSpiritLedEd
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Must One Be Baptized To Get To Heaven?
I know of no Scripture requiring baptism pursuant to salvation. According to my study Bible, the meaning of the reference to water in Jn 3:5 is ambiguous; several meanings are possible.
However, I've been taught (and I firmly believe) that baptism is an external sign of our inward conversion - a sign for us and for those around us. And for that reason, it is important.
SLE
I know of no Scripture requiring baptism pursuant to salvation. According to my study Bible, the meaning of the reference to water in Jn 3:5 is ambiguous; several meanings are possible.
However, I've been taught (and I firmly believe) that baptism is an external sign of our inward conversion - a sign for us and for those around us. And for that reason, it is important.
SLE
i pray this helps you
First let me show you that there is more than one type of baptism:
Hebrews 6:2 instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. [NIV]
'Instruction about BAPTISMS'
Matthew 21:25 John's baptism--where did it come from? Was it from heaven, or from men?"They discussed it among themselves and said, "If we say, 'From heaven,' he will ask, 'Then why didn't you believe him?' [NIV]
There was John's baptism, which was for repentance.
Mark 10:38 "You don't know what you are asking," Jesus said. "Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?" [NIV]
There was the baptism that Jesus was going to go through, meaning death.
Acts 1:5 "For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit." [NIV]
There is baptism with the Holy Spirit, of course we know Jesus was speaking of Pentecost, not water baptism in this passage.
Acts 8:15-16 When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, [16] because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. [NIV]
"Simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus" that is significant, that is speaking of water baptism.
Ephes. 4:3-6 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. [4] There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called-- [5] one Lord, one faith, one baptism; [6] one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. [NIV]
Yet Paul says under the direction of the Holy Spirit that there is only one baptism. Hum, what does this tell us? It tells us that we need to be careful as to what we think is being said when we talk about baptism.
1 Cor. 12:12-13 The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. [13] For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. [NIV]
We were baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit, again this is not speaking about water baptism.
Galatians 3:26-29 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, [27] for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. [NIV]
Notice in this passage that we were baptized into Christ, not baptized in His name, which would have meant water baptism, but this passage as well as the others I showed you are speaking of the baptism that does save us and that is done by the Holy Spirit when He baptizes us into the Body of Christ following our putting our faith in Him.
Now let me ask you a question. Do you think that in eternity there will be Old Testament Saints with us? Like Elijah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc...? Of course there will be, they were believers. But how were they saved? They were saved exactly the same way we are today, by faith. If baptism is required for salvation, then these men were not saved because water baptism in the name of Jesus was not instituted until after His death, but if salvation is by faith alone, then they were saved and they were baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit just as we are today.
So when I say that baptism is not part of salvation but a sign of our faith, I am strictly speaking of water baptism, but I will agree if a person is not baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit then they are not saved. With this in mind it makes perfect sense that Paul was glad that he had not baptized many people so that they could not claim having been baptized into his name. Also it makes perfect sense when he separates preaching the gospel from baptizing as he does when he says:
1 Cor. 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. [NIV]
If on the other hand water baptism is required then this would be a very strange statement by Paul. Declaring that the act of water baptism is required for salvation is added a work to the requirement of faith alone. Either Christ did everything needed for our salvation on the cross or we are responsible for doing some work to obtain it and as Paul tells us if you work for something it is not a gift.
First let me show you that there is more than one type of baptism:
Hebrews 6:2 instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. [NIV]
'Instruction about BAPTISMS'
Matthew 21:25 John's baptism--where did it come from? Was it from heaven, or from men?"They discussed it among themselves and said, "If we say, 'From heaven,' he will ask, 'Then why didn't you believe him?' [NIV]
There was John's baptism, which was for repentance.
Mark 10:38 "You don't know what you are asking," Jesus said. "Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?" [NIV]
There was the baptism that Jesus was going to go through, meaning death.
Acts 1:5 "For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit." [NIV]
There is baptism with the Holy Spirit, of course we know Jesus was speaking of Pentecost, not water baptism in this passage.
Acts 8:15-16 When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, [16] because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. [NIV]
"Simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus" that is significant, that is speaking of water baptism.
Ephes. 4:3-6 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. [4] There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called-- [5] one Lord, one faith, one baptism; [6] one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. [NIV]
Yet Paul says under the direction of the Holy Spirit that there is only one baptism. Hum, what does this tell us? It tells us that we need to be careful as to what we think is being said when we talk about baptism.
1 Cor. 12:12-13 The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. [13] For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. [NIV]
We were baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit, again this is not speaking about water baptism.
Galatians 3:26-29 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, [27] for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. [NIV]
Notice in this passage that we were baptized into Christ, not baptized in His name, which would have meant water baptism, but this passage as well as the others I showed you are speaking of the baptism that does save us and that is done by the Holy Spirit when He baptizes us into the Body of Christ following our putting our faith in Him.
Now let me ask you a question. Do you think that in eternity there will be Old Testament Saints with us? Like Elijah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc...? Of course there will be, they were believers. But how were they saved? They were saved exactly the same way we are today, by faith. If baptism is required for salvation, then these men were not saved because water baptism in the name of Jesus was not instituted until after His death, but if salvation is by faith alone, then they were saved and they were baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit just as we are today.
So when I say that baptism is not part of salvation but a sign of our faith, I am strictly speaking of water baptism, but I will agree if a person is not baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit then they are not saved. With this in mind it makes perfect sense that Paul was glad that he had not baptized many people so that they could not claim having been baptized into his name. Also it makes perfect sense when he separates preaching the gospel from baptizing as he does when he says:
1 Cor. 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. [NIV]
If on the other hand water baptism is required then this would be a very strange statement by Paul. Declaring that the act of water baptism is required for salvation is added a work to the requirement of faith alone. Either Christ did everything needed for our salvation on the cross or we are responsible for doing some work to obtain it and as Paul tells us if you work for something it is not a gift.
Gracealone
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I felt that was the biblical understanding, thanks.
Someone, I forget who now, said it meant you had to speak in tongues, so desired clarification, also by the trial of works, and persecution, and endurance to the end, making Gods yoke heavy,and hard to bear.
I always wonder because it means different things to different people.
Gracealone
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Amen, I too believe it is important.
Pastor Bob has included that the word, 'water' there , could mean the water of the word.
Others think it is referring to the natural birth, compared to the Spiritual birth?
Interesting, and both true! Neat!
rizen1
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I knew tongues would come up because once Fire, power and Holy Spirit is in one sentence. But I love the bible for the fact it has the answers to everything.
I started studying the NT and there was one thing that stood out for me almost every time there was laying of hands, when the people received the Holy Spirit something happened.
Mark 16:16-18 (King James Version)
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover
I believe God is the same yesterday, today and forever more and that goes for the power of the Holy Spirit. The bible talks about not quenching the Holy Spirit or grieving the Spirit, most importantly blashphemy against the Holy Spirit. How we acknowledge the Holy Spirit will show in our daily life....by fruits and gifts.
Show me a spiritually dead church or christian...and you'll sure to find resistance of the Holy Spirit.
This verse says you could resist the Holy Spirit.
Acts 7:51 Ye stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Ok I think I got off topic...back to the original question water baptism.
Stay on track.
God bless.
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2 questions
Where did the idea of baptism come from? Why was John baptizing before Jesus even began his ministry and why was Jesus baptized?
Also, how is one "baptized in the Spirit?" One church in particular believes that you are given the Holy Spirit upon being baptized (with water). They also believe that the water baptism means nothing if you are not already saved (wet sinner), but that the baptism is like the conclusion of salvation, or I believe they use the term "marriage" with Christ. So that without baptism you are not truly saved. Much like you can be engaged, you can walk down the aisle, you can say I DO, but if the proper papers are not signed and filed, you are not truly married. (Their anology.)
Also (sorry more than 2 questions) I believe it was mentioned in this thread, about once you are saved and baptized in spirit you are no longer a sinner, and I thought it was said that if one does sin they can loose their salvation. So if one is "truly saved and baptized" we have no more sin? We never think a bad thought or commit any iniquity? If that was this thread, could you please explain further. ~Torie
Where did the idea of baptism come from? Why was John baptizing before Jesus even began his ministry and why was Jesus baptized?
Also, how is one "baptized in the Spirit?" One church in particular believes that you are given the Holy Spirit upon being baptized (with water). They also believe that the water baptism means nothing if you are not already saved (wet sinner), but that the baptism is like the conclusion of salvation, or I believe they use the term "marriage" with Christ. So that without baptism you are not truly saved. Much like you can be engaged, you can walk down the aisle, you can say I DO, but if the proper papers are not signed and filed, you are not truly married. (Their anology.)
Also (sorry more than 2 questions) I believe it was mentioned in this thread, about once you are saved and baptized in spirit you are no longer a sinner, and I thought it was said that if one does sin they can loose their salvation. So if one is "truly saved and baptized" we have no more sin? We never think a bad thought or commit any iniquity? If that was this thread, could you please explain further. ~Torie
rizen1
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This is where the importance of personal bible study comes in, and confusion gets kicked out the door.
I'm not sure the the jewish tides to baptism, but I do know early civilizations and some cultures still do this today...spiritual baths. Whether it be to scare of evil or just spiritual cleansing.
I'm west indian I remember my grandparents would talk about bush baths. If a child was sick, or believed someone had a spirit on them they took a bush bath (bush meaning herbs, special leaves ).
The bible states this spiritual bath was for repentance...
As we wait for someone to get the origin, I suggest you begin a study of the book of Matthew and John.
I'm not sure the the jewish tides to baptism, but I do know early civilizations and some cultures still do this today...spiritual baths. Whether it be to scare of evil or just spiritual cleansing.
I'm west indian I remember my grandparents would talk about bush baths. If a child was sick, or believed someone had a spirit on them they took a bush bath (bush meaning herbs, special leaves ).
The bible states this spiritual bath was for repentance...
As we wait for someone to get the origin, I suggest you begin a study of the book of Matthew and John.
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SpiritLedEd
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Judgement: Mum2Four is new to the forums. Given that fact, its obvious to me that she was referring to water baptism even though she didn't specify it. Things are confusing enough for most newbies. They don't need us muddying the waters with advanced theological discussions in response to their simple questions.
SLE
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