Narrow is the way that leads into life

[Lanolin]

Hello Lanolin.
Rich does not necessarily single out the wealthy in terms of money and worldly assets. It also implies rich in self-worth, pride, ego, stories to boast, worldly knowledge, and anything else we have heavily invested in for self...to feed our self-will with.

I didn't say that the Bible notes that Jesus said it's hard for the rich to enter heaven and the person that asked didn't follow Jesus because of his wealth. If you think wealth does not mean a lot of possessions then....

You can read for yourself. He didn't say 'Its hard for the egotistical or knowledgable to enter heaven, he specifically says rich'.

21Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”

22When the young man heard this, he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth.

23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

 

[KerimF]

Strait and narrow...

Jesus explained how hard it is for a rich man to enter heaven...like a camel going through the eye of a needle.

Being rich doesn't mean just having lot of money.
If a man has under his bed a billion dollar, does this make him rich? He can't, speaking practically, be rich as long this money doesn't give him certain privileges that let him control, directly or indirectly (via various servants), other men. One usually does this in the name of a god, patriotism, freedom, democracy... etc.

In the real world, Money (wealth) and Power are twins. And one cannot be greater or smaller than the other for too long. For example, international banks have to be protected by powerful systems (via their various forces). And because the two are twins, men could be hired as bodyguards to protect the VIP members of the high class in every region.

Naturally, these privileged powerful rich persons have nothing to do with spirituality; unless they use it in their speeches to gain more money and power
After all, a person who is born of the flesh only needs joining a certain master/follower game (political or religious). He joins it as a master or follower.

On the other hand, since Jesus is addressing solely the person who is also born of the Spirit, Jesus reminds him that his flesh may obey his 'Caesar' as long this doesn't prevent his soul being fed by living the divine unconditional love towards all others {Matthew 22:21}.

 

[Peter]

I didn't say that the Bible notes that Jesus said it's hard for the rich to enter heaven and the person that asked didn't follow Jesus because of his wealth. If you think wealth does not mean a lot of possessions then....

You can read for yourself. He didn't say 'Its hard for the egotistical or knowledgable to enter heaven, he specifically says rich'.

21Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”

22When the young man heard this, he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth.

23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

Hello Lanolin.
Rich does not necessarily single out the wealthy in terms of money and worldly assets. It also implies rich in self-worth, pride, ego, stories to boast, worldly knowledge, and anything else we have heavily invested in for self...to feed our self-will with.

Worldly assets mean possessions.

...He didn't say 'Its hard for the egotistical or knowledgable to enter heaven,...”

Mark 8:34-37
34. Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.
35. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it.
36. What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?
37. Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?
38. If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."

Egotistical is self-will run riot. Rich and boastful in worldly knowledge is opposite to Spirit-taught-knowledge (knowledge spoken from the Holy Spirit is a knowing of what is true without being deduced by reasoning).

If you still cannot cannot discern what I am saying, I am sorry.

 

[Lanolin]

I'm talking about that specific thing Jesus said to the rich young ruler, who had many possessions ie. worldly assets.
Pretty obvious to me, if you don't get it, sorry can't help you.

As Kerim said, both go hand and hand, so its a bit silly to separate one from the other. Jesus didn't say give up your knowledge or your boasting...he just told the guy to sell all his POSSESSIONS and give it to the poor.

PRETTY PLAIN!!!

Of course it's wrong to boast of how much you possess but see the rich man wasn't even boasting of that. He was saying how good he was and yea we can boast of how law abiding we are, nothing really wrong with that - Jesus was saying fair enough you obey everything but this ONE thing you lack!!!

He's not saying oh go be stupid and stop observing all those other things. He's calling the rich young ruler to go over and above what he's already doing.

Here is the whole passage if you don't believe me read it yourself.

Don't try to add stuff that isn't there. See Jesus loved this man who was asking him questions. Maybe he went away sad but he might have realised later what Jesus was asking him to do.

Mark 10:17-27King James Version (KJV)
17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?

27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Speaking of truth.
I once was in a video course and they were asking a variety of people from different walks of life to define "Truth".
Of all the answers I heard I can recall only one. This one answer from a teenage boy in a wheelchair.

"Truth is what you see when you look through the eyes of God."

We have God's Word and have but to prayerfully read it to discern what God desires of us and what truth He shares with us to know.

Have you ever tried to go through a cave where the sides of the wall are squeezing you so you have to just about turn sideways to get through?
Narrow. It will require changes from a sinful life. We have the one sin that is common to every man. While there are other sins though not unique to man, can be seen through His Holy Word as being part of our lives. These are ones that need to be addressed. Most people don't need to look to find what they are. It is written within them. They know them if they would be honest with themselves.

Wide. Doesn't require any changes at all.

Sorry, off to church! Don't have time to review what I'm posting.
Praise & Worship!

Always with the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[KerimF]

If a man is rich but he doesn't have privileges (rights; given to him in the name of a certain Law), more than I have, I may trust him as if he is poor as I am. But the highly privileged men can never get my trust because their stories, no matter how great and real they may sound, are actually made to better control their men on bottom while protecting themselves by rules claimed being created for peace, freedom, democracy or whatever notion that sounds great.

The irony is that most people in the world have no choice but hearing, almost daily, the repeated stories of those highly privileged persons (owning or serving political or religious systems). Naturally, these common people (in billions) also have no choice but believing them (unless they have time and are interested to analyse the end fruits of the events related to these stories... {Matthew 7:16} )

For instance, I asked an American friend lately:
"I wonder how many of the 9/11 evidences, concerning the decision makers behind the 9/11 international crime, 'you' had the chance to hear of and how they were presented?"
I got his sincere reply (as I was expecting it):
"I think many Americans question the official story after looking at and weighing the evidence".

Even about worldly matters (political and scientific) a person may not mind to believe/trust other's investigations/stories/speeches based on faith not reason. After all, most of the time, this is good for one's safety and sanity besides other benefits.

So, even if one person only among a million is able to let his soul walk on the way into life (its detail is clearly presented by Jesus) despite all God's instructions embedded in his flesh that oppose it, God's purpose of creating the world is greatly achieved.
Looking from an earthly angle, God created with every human being much more than a trillion (not million ) living things (cells, plants, animals... etc.). But if this human race, forming close to 0% of the world's living things, is removed, earth would loose almost all of its today's sense. This scenario is the same if seen from a spiritual angle.

Anyway, please don't worry if you couldn't get most of my rumbling here because, in any case, life will keep going on exactly as God planned since always.

Kerim

 

[KerimF]

Speaking of truth.
I once was in a video course and they were asking a variety of people from different walks of life to define "Truth".
Of all the answers I heard I can recall only one. This one answer from a teenage boy in a wheelchair.

"Truth is what you see when you look through the eyes of God."

We have God's Word and have but to prayerfully read it to discern what God desires of us and what truth He shares with us to know.

Have you ever tried to go through a cave where the sides of the wall are squeezing you so you have to just about turn sideways to get through?
Narrow. It will require changes from a sinful life. We have the one sin that is common to every man. While there are other sins though not unique to man, can be seen through His Holy Word as being part of our lives. These are ones that need to be addressed. Most people don't need to look to find what they are. It is written within them. They know them if they would be honest with themselves.

Wide. Doesn't require any changes at all.

Sorry, off to church! Don't have time to review what I'm posting.
Praise & Worship!

Always with the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Isn't every theist looking through "the eyes of his God"? But his God is actually one of the god's images that are offered on the world's table. For example, when a person believes in Mohammad's god (a god who knows Arabic only, hence called Allah), the eyes of his Allah tells him that he is created just to worship his god Allah (by following Allah's rules on Quran). I guess this is how a Jew believes about God's purpose in creating the world, but he should worship God by following God's rules on Torah instead.

Did Jesus talk about worshiping God? To my knowledge, He didn't. Instead, He talked about loving God; very big difference
Did Jesus mention any rule or ritual to be imposed as it is the case in ALL religions/beliefs, including Judaism? To my knowledge, He didn't. Because true Love and any imposed Law cannot co-exist at the same time to the same person. In fact, Jesus came to show that True Love (that controls the flesh and feeds the soul) is beyond ALL rules (that feed and protect the fleshes, also organize men in groups); even the rules that God addressed to some kids of humanity, via Torah in the far past).

But loving God is not easy at all. It means that someone is able to have full trust (mind, heart and soul) in his Creator so he can sees behind whatever may happen to him the good reason for which it happened. On the other, it is rather impossible for someone to have this full trust if he, for one reason or another, cannot live the divine unconditional love towards all others {Matthew 22:40}.

Kerim

 

[Christ4Ever]

Isn't every theist looking through "the eyes of his God"?

Maybe if this site were made of theist who believed in other than the One True God I would agree. Also, if that was the case, shouldn't you being using the little "g" in the above reference instead of "G" denoting the One True God since you are including all religions in your commentary? Apologies ahead of time. Knowing that English is not necessarily your first language.

Did Jesus talk about worshiping God? To my knowledge, He didn't.

Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.' " Matthew 4:10

Should we also talk about how many times He accepted Worship? So, I don't believe He had issue with Worshipping God & Loving God. They are not mutually exclusive. One can Worship God & Love God. You'll find many here at TJ who do.

To my knowledge, He didn't. Because true Love and any imposed Law cannot co-exist at the same time to the same person.

Can you see where Love & Law can co-exist as it did in Jesus? I think the problem you might (conjecture) have with Law is the same reason you used the word "imposed" before the word "Law". No one likes to have anything "imposed" on them. It grates against the flesh, our intelligence, and our sense of Liberty/Freedom. Sadly, "Law" is what many religions use to acquire & impose their will/power over people.

More important to us is to grow in Him and the reading of the Word, so one can discern truth from lies.

But loving God is not easy at all. It means that someone is able to have full trust (mind, heart and soul) in his Creator so he can sees behind whatever may happen to him the good reason for which it happened. On the other, it is rather impossible for someone to have this full trust if he, for one reason or another, cannot live the divine unconditional love towards all others {Matthew 22:40}.

Good verse quote. Exactly right. To be able to follow/understand the Law, we must be able to Love! That is why I can't have enough of reading 1 Corinthians 13 or what some would call the Love Chapter.

My intent was not to get so involved in this thread.
Just making an observation on an area this thread was touching on "Truth".

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Lanolin]

Jesus said He is the way the truth and the life...noone comes to the Father except by Him.

Jesus also said he was the door. The door can open and shut only if you have the key to the kingdom of God.Not everyone passes through. You need the key.

If you dont have the key the way is shut.

From a muslim persoective they think they know God but they really dont know Him as Father because they deny His Son.

 

[KerimF]

Thank you, Nick, for clarifying what you heard from me.

Maybe if this site were made of theist who believed in other than the One True God I would agree. Also, if that was the case, shouldn't you being using the little "g" in the above reference instead of "G" denoting the One True God since you are including all religions in your commentary? Apologies ahead of time. Knowing that English is not necessarily your first language.

I am afraid that to a theist, the god he believes in is his God and he won't mind writing the word 'god' to refer to my God
I am simply presenting the world as it is. Didn't Jesus do the same anytime he talked about the world.

Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.' " Matthew 4:10

As you see, Jesus was talking here to Satan not to me Satan is the symbol of the World's King. The King of all humans that are born of flesh only in order to serve the world (by following God's instructions embedded in their living cells as all other living things do). To those, True Love (that opposes their flesh instincts) doesn't exist for them in the first place. In fact, Jesus was condemned to death by the honourable elders at his time for revealing openly and clearly the Divine Love and said "I and my Father are one {John 10:30}. Even in our days, those who are born of the flesh only cannot even imagine what Jesus is referring to by 'worshipping in spirit and in truth' {John 4:22-24}.

Should we also talk about how many times He accepted Worship? So, I don't believe He had issue with Worshipping God & Loving God. They are not mutually exclusive. One can Worship God & Love God. You'll find many here at TJ who do.

Yes, the word 'worship' had to be mentioned too many times on the Gospel since Jews and Pagans, at Jesus time, are used to and not ready to hear an updated sort of relation with their Creator. Now, after 2000 years, would you please help me know how a person can worship God, based on Jesus sayings only. Thank you.

Can you see where Love & Law can co-exist as it did in Jesus? I think the problem you might (conjecture) have with Law is the same reason you used the word "imposed" before the word "Law". No one likes to have anything "imposed" on them. It grates against the flesh, our intelligence, and our sense of Liberty/Freedom. Sadly, "Law" is what many religions use to acquire & impose their will/power over people.

So please correct me if I miss something in what follows. I heard that a good Jew has to obey certain rules (imposed by God via Moses and the Prophets). It is the same for the good Muslims but their rules are imposed by Allah via their Mohammad, Allah's messenger. For instance, the main idea of Islam is an inspired version of Judaism translated to Arabic; in both the perfect union of the Father and Jesus by the Holy Spirit is seen as the greatest blasphemy against the God (or god) they worship.

More important to us is to grow in Him and the reading of the Word, so one can discern truth from lies.
Good verse quote. Exactly right. To be able to follow/understand the Law, we must be able to Love! That is why I can't have enough of reading 1 Corinthians 13 or what some would call the Love Chapter.
My intent was not to get so involved in this thread.
Just making an observation on an area this thread was touching on "Truth".

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

I am glad you shared your observation. Sincerity is the greatest priceless gift that a person can give to another.

Kerim

 

[Peter]

Jesus said He is the way the truth and the life...noone comes to the Father except by Him.

Jesus also said he was the door. The door can open and shut only if you have the key to the kingdom of God.Not everyone passes through. You need the key.

If you dont have the key the way is shut.

From a muslim persoective they think they know God but they really dont know Him as Father because they deny His Son.

There is a need for clarification as to what John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me..." means.
That is, through believing in Christ as a way of living the truth.
Genesis 3:24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
The sword is the Word of God, in other words, the Truth. Truth guards the way.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
If we do not live a way of truth (the key) we won't pass through the narrow way.

 

[Christ4Ever]

hank you, Nick, for clarifying what you heard from me.

I am afraid that to a theist, the god he believes in is his God and he won't mind writing the word 'god' to refer to my God
I am simply presenting the world as it is. Didn't Jesus do the same anytime he talked about the world.

So, you are either a Theist yourself or you are assuming that there are those here who identify as such?

The point I was attempting to make in my initial reply to you was that you shouldn't assume that there are theist here at Talk Jesus. We are Christians, and believe in God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit or in other words the Trinity. If you want to talk generalities as it pertains to the "World" then please be a bit more specific so those here who believe as I have stated don't feel unduly offended. Also, please don't use what other religions do to make a point.

As you see, Jesus was talking here to Satan not to me Satan is the symbol of the World's King. The King of all humans that are born of flesh only in order to serve the world (by following God's instructions embedded in their living cells as all other living things do). To those, True Love (that opposes their flesh instincts) doesn't exist for them in the first place. In fact, Jesus was condemned to death by the honourable elders at his time for revealing openly and clearly the Divine Love and said "I and my Father are one {John 10:30}. Even in our days, those who are born of the flesh only cannot even imagine what Jesus is referring to by 'worshipping in spirit and in truth' {John 4:22-24}.

Not just Satan, but you and I as well We don't actually have to be addressed specifically in a verse for it to imply as is the case in Mattew 4:10. Which is that Worship, should only be directed to God (Big "G" ). Some other references that one can apply to this are, but not limited to:

1 Chronicles 16:29; John 4:21; Psalm 99 has some good examples of why we are to Worship God.

Yes, the word 'worship' had to be mentioned too many times on the Gospel since Jews and Pagans, at Jesus time, are used to and not ready to hear an updated sort of relation with their Creator. Now, after 2000 years, would you please help me know how a person can worship God, based on Jesus sayings only. Thank you.

You are implying something that is not evident in scripture. If you want to form an opinion based on your own perspective and not scripture that is fine. Just don't do this and present it as fact on this forum. Saying this with love Kerim.

So please correct me if I miss something in what follows. I heard that a good Jew has to obey certain rules (imposed by God via Moses and the Prophets). It is the same for the good Muslims but their rules are imposed by Allah via their Mohammad, Allah's messenger. For instance, the main idea of Islam is an inspired version of Judaism translated to Arabic; in both the perfect union of the Father and Jesus by the Holy Spirit is seen as the greatest blasphemy against the God (or god) they worship.

You are mixing two Covenants Kerim when talking Judaism. Also, please don't mix Islam or other religions into this. They don't apply and are not used to base why Christianity does or does not conform to a worldly pattern of belief.

I am glad you shared your observation. Sincerity is the greatest priceless gift that a person can give to another.

I am glad that you are glad for my shared observation.
I will ever endeavor to be sincere in all my postings.

With the Love Christ Jesus.
Nick
<><

 

[KerimF]

Thank you, Nick, for being sincere once again. And since I am, unlike you are, just a guest here, I think I should follow your advice and leave the forum for good.

I will leave because I respect your fears as I have respected the fears of all friends whom I had the chance to meet; Jewish, Muslim, Judeo-Christian, Pagan and even atheist.

It happened that, thanks to Jesus only, I was able to live, since many decades, with no fear/confusion of any sort, speaking spiritually, after I got from Him the 'logical' answers to 'all' important questions about my being and the real world. But, this is just me.

Please forgive me if I hurt you (without my intention) by letting you hear things that you are not familiar to and you are not supposed to hear now and anytime later. For example, almost all Christians I met are able to see in Jesus, the God, but they can't see in Him their Divine Perfect Teacher. They actually believe that Jesus, in person, couldn't (failed to) reveal the whole Truth by himself during his visit on earth; therefore they feel the need always to seek God's Truth from other sources.

By the way, I am just an independent disciple of Jesus; He knows me and I know Him {John 10:14}

Kerim

 

[Christ4Ever]

I will leave because I respect your fears as I have respected the fears of all friends whom I had the chance to meet; Jewish, Muslim, Judeo-Christian, Pagan and even atheist.

Should you leave or stay let it not be driven by what you believe are my fears of what you have said. If fears you have noticed in the undertones of what I have written. Know that if there is any fear, it is moved more of what you have left unsaid to this point rather than what you have said.

In part it is driven that without saying it plainly that I sense you have linked Christianity with every other religion. Seeing little difference between them. Blind leading the blind so to speak. Similar to when Paul addressed the Athenians in mentioning the Unknown God.

I do not see Christianity even in its different at times variations as anything more than a word. A word, Christian, not meant to define a religion but one who believes in Jesus as the Christ or Messiah if you will. Realizing that even in the name that was given by non-believers to those who followed/follow Jesus the Christ, does not truly explain in completeness what it means to be a Disciple/Follower of Jesus.

Yet, I cannot accept teachings that would be contrary to Scripture either. For without it. We would once again be in the Dark Ages.

So whether you decide to stay, or go, I hope you'll understand it will only be because you have prayed and have come to understand that the truth you have come to see and desire to communicate here. Would not be seen necessarily as a falsehood, but rather heretical to one who believes in the inerrancy of Scripture. There is a difference

Still, I leave this post with you in Peace and with the Love of Christ Jesus.

"For he who is not against us is on our side. "For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward. Mark 9:40-41

May you never thirst.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[KerimF]

Yet, I cannot accept teachings that would be contrary to Scripture either. For without it. We would once again be in the Dark Ages.
<><

For what you said above, I thought it is time for me to start a new thread; titled "Jesus Message and the Old Testament".
I am all ears to hear comments and discover if I wrongly understood Jesus Message, even partially.