Question about isaiah prophecy

[memiler]

Hello, I have cute checks depicting lion and lambs, and wolf and lambs. I remembered when I saw them that there was a scripture about it and finally got around to looking it up. It's Isaiah 65. It really is a beautiful chapter, describing what I am assuming to be the new heaven and new earth. The question comes with verse 20...how can there be death at all if according to Revelation death is destroyed?? BTW I am slowly learning to not get so ruffled when faced with something I really, really don't understand. Every time I have a question and let myself ask and search, my faith is strengthened by God's grace. Thanks in advance for any help! <><

 

[LegendaryU2K]

LOL, i love chapter 65 too, talking about the new heaven and new earth = Holy city.

OK, to answer your question, from what i gather from your question.

Death cometh from satan and from our first fathers adam and eve, we are the offspring from them, so we have to deal with whatever they did, untill the end of "This" World. So death started with them and it continues with us, and i am guessing during or after armageddon, The Last Enemy Which is Death will be destoryed.

Revelation is later stuff, its not before stuff, its later stuff. So in the beginning Death cometh and in the end , Death goeth.

Nevertheless, after the worse, This Heaven and This earth will passed away and GOD will create a New Heaven and a New Earth , for all those who are righteous. This is also call the Holy City or The Governement which will be located in the New Earth.

Hope this helps, holla back alright.

 

[memiler]

OK let me preface this by saying I am tired which doesn't help the noggin. I think I am more confused now lol. So are you saying that Isaiah 65 and Isaiah 11 for that matter are NOT talking about "heaven"?

 

[LegendaryU2K]

OK let me preface this by saying I am tired which doesn't help the noggin. I think I am more confused now lol. So are you saying that Isaiah 65 and Isaiah 11 for that matter are NOT talking about "heaven"?

Isaiah chapter 11? huh What verse? How come you didnt mention this before? Ok, now i am confused.

Isaiah Chapter 65 verses 17, 18, 19 is talking about the New Heaven and New Earth.

Dont know what you talking about in Isaiah 11????????

 

[memiler]

Oh I'm sorry - Isaiah 11 is describing peace between animals as well, so I thought maybe it would help to look at that too for more reference. It really isn't necessary though.

My question is still with verse 20 because he is describing the new heaven and new earth. There is no reason for the reader to infer He is skipping to another time frame. However I know that the prophets do skip through time back and forward when you just read them through. This definately looks like He is still on the subject of a new heaven and new earth however. I just read again in Revelation 21 and 22...death has already been destroyed when the new earth appears. Thanks for helping me here...I'm welcoming any input.

 

[Adstar]

Isaiah 11:
6 " The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, The leopard shall lie down with the young goat, The calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little child shall lead them. 7 The cow and the bear shall graze; Their young ones shall lie down together; And the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole, And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper's den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD As the waters cover the sea. 10 " And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, Who shall stand as a banner to the people; For the Gentiles shall seek Him, And His resting place shall be glorious." 11 It shall come to pass in that day [That] the LORD shall set His hand again the second time To recover the remnant of His people who are left, From Assyria and Egypt, From Pathros and Cush, From Elam and Shinar, From Hamath and the islands of the sea. 12 He will set up a banner for the nations, And will assemble the outcasts of Israel, And gather together the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of the earth.

This will happen before the New Earth and New Heaven. This will happen in the Kingdom of the returned Messiah. This kingdom will last 1000 years before the final satanic rebellion Just before the final Judgement.

I do not believe that the book of Isaiah is chronological. That is i see it as a collection of prophesies put together but not necessarily in order of when they will happen.

The book of Revelation seems to be more chronological. Chapter 20 is one of the best prophetic chapters in the bible. It’s a step by step journey through the end times.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Jesuslovesu]

sa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days; for the child shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner being a hundred years old shall be accursed.
Isa 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
Isa 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree shall be the days of my people, and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
These verses are talking about life on earth after you are right but when it speaks of death it is because someone sinned. And if that person dies before the 1,000 years it is because of sin. A breaking of law.

Isa 65:20 There shall be1961 no3808 more5750 thence4480, 8033 an infant5764 of days,3117 nor an old man2205 that834 hath not3808 filled4390 (853) his days:3117 for3588 the child5288 shall die4191 a hundred3967 years8141 old;1121 but the sinner2398 being a hundred3967 years8141 old1121 shall be accursed.7043
( I left the strong numbers on purpose)

H7043
קלל
qâlal
kaw-lal'
A primitive root; to be (causatively make) light, literally (swift, small, sharp, etc.) or figuratively (easy, trifling, vile, etc.): - abate, make bright, bring into contempt, (ac-) curse, despise, (be) ease (-y, -ier), (be a, make, make somewhat, move, seem a, set) light (-en, -er, ly, -ly afflict, -ly esteem, thing), X slight [-ly], be swift (-er), (be, be more, make, re-) vile, whet.


There are other references with the word accursed which can also mean to banish .

Now I am wondering which part of Isaiah 11 you are speaking of is it the part about the animals being tame and sleeping? That is because of Jesus return that all animals that where not tame will become tame. God Bless You! And If anyone views these as different please let me know i would hate to be misleading in anyway.

 

[Jesuslovesu]

sorry I was typing the fisrt post out when you re posted memiler
hope it helped God Bless

 

[LegendaryU2K]

This will happen before the New Earth and New Heaven. This will happen in the Kingdom of the returned Messiah. This kingdom will last 1000 years before the final satanic rebellion Just before the final Judgement.

Do you mind telling me what is going to happen after the "Final Judgement"?

Also do you mind telling me, what is the "Final Judgement"? And do you mind telling me how the "Resurrection of the Dead & Judgement Day" Fits in, too all of this?

Because correct me if i'm wrong( Because i do not know everything from the bible ) but, from my understanding of the bible and from what i gather:

Armageddon is first , next is the Rapture (Note: The Word rapture is not found in the bible, but the term is there , which is written down somewhere in Thessalonians, this is also in connection on the First Resurrection / The World of the chosen ones selected by The Heavenly Father.

Then comes Judgement Day, which the holy saints( I gussing these are the 144,000) and Jesus Christ will Judge the World / In connection:

"Comes the Last Resurrection which is on the last day which is also mention in " John chapter 5 verse 25 & 29

Chapter 29 is the key here:

Then after all of this, GOD will create a New Heaven & A New Earth which is title = The holy City., that should last forever.

Maybe not in the right order or the right way, i really dont know, but i am aware of it.

 

[memiler]

Thanks for all of the thoughts! I think when reading Isaiah 11 that it would make perfect sense for the peace etc to be before the new earth, But Isaiah 65, which also describes Jesus reign and remarkable peace on earth between animals and also humans specifically says that those things are after the new earth is made in verse 17. He continues to describe it in detail in the following verses. That's why the mention of death doesn'tmake sense to me. Also look at how he describes families. We aren't given to marriage or will be male/female to reproduce in heaven.

The alternate view is if isa 65:17 means a new earth as in a different earth during the millenial reign of Christ and not THE new heaven and THE new earth. Is that what some of you were alluding to??

 

[Adstar]

A few Question there. I suppose the best way to answer is to walk you through Revelation chapter 20:

Revelation 20:
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

This Happens after the battle of Armageddon after the defeat of the army of the Anti-christ. Revelation chapter 19 details that battle and the return of our Messiah the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords



3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

So satan will not be locked away in the bottomless pit forever after the battle of Armageddon But it clearly says that after 1000 years he will be released for a little while.



4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

This judgement is for those that take part in the First resurrection. Those that take part in the first resurrection are saved from the Lake of fire they are not judged if they are saved or not because they are saved they are judged on what they have done in their lives. The people who do not take part in this first resurrection will remain dead for 1000 years. It clearly states that those who take part in the first resurrection will reign with the Messiah for 1000 years.



7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison

Now here we see after the 1000 year reign of the Messiah satan is released from the bottomless pit.



8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number [is] as the sand of the sea.

So satan is released to deceive the nations to spark the final satanic rebellion against the Kingdom of the Messiah at the end of the 1000 year reign.



9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

Note. The armies of satan will surround the Beloved city and the camp of the saints this shows that the saints will be on earth during the 1000 years reign of the Messiah. The beloved city is Jerusalem. God himself will destroy this satanic army with fire from heaven.



10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Note how the beast (anti-christ ) and the false prophet are already in the lake of fire. They where cast into it 1000 years before at the end of the battle of Armageddon. Satan spent this 1000 years in the bottomless pit.



11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Now this is the final Judgement after the final satanic rebellion is defeated. That is when all those who did not take part in the first resurrection will be raised from the dead and that is when they will face the final judgement.

So the battle of Armageddon is not the final battle between good end evil. The final battle is the satanic rebellion that happens 1000 years after the battle of Armageddon.

All Praise the Ancient of Days

 

[Adstar]

Armageddon is first , next is the Rapture (Note: The Word rapture is not found in the bible, but the term is there , which is written down somewhere in Thessalonians, this is also in connection on the First Resurrection / The World of the chosen ones selected by The Heavenly Father.

I believe the first resurrection and rapture happen in quick succession together. and they happen upon the sounding of the final trumpet. Upon the return of the Messiah Jesus.

One of the best rapture scriptures is in 1 Corinthians. I will walk you through it.

1 Corrinthians15: 49,54

49And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

Here Paul is saying that as we inhabit earthly bodies derived from dust so shall we inhabit new bodies changed and not made of dust. Paul goes on to explain why:



50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

So the bodies that we inhabit cannot enter the Kingdom of God and also "corruption" dead bodies must also be changed also. Then Paul reveals a mystery:



51Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

So Paul is saying that "we shall not all sleep" now I hope everyone can agree that he is talking about physical death here? Paul is saying not everyone will experience physical death. He goes on to say that "we shall all be changed" both the dead and the living "in a moment", now at this point it could be argued that both the dead and the living could be changed in a moment in time, but at different times. That is to say the moment is only referring to the time it takes to change, not at the same moment. But we read on and Paul states the moment will be. "in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet." So not only shall both the living and the dead be changed to inherit the Kingdom of God But they will both change at the same moment, at the last trumpet. As He goes on to say "For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." Paul goes on to explain it in more detail:



53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory.

So here again we see Paul referring to the two states of being that the saints will be in at the time of the 1st Resurrection/Rapture "So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality," Dead saints and living saints caught up together in a twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet.

So from what I have read the first resurrection and the rapture (although different experiences for them that take part) will happen at the same instant in time at the last trumpet.

So now we go on to the next scripture:


Revelation10:

7but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.

Now the sounding of the seventh Angel is the last of a series of seven trumpets in revelation. Note that the scripture says the "Mystery of God would be finished" now the coming of the Messiah has been described by scripture at a coming in the sky (a darkened sky) and all people will see Him. Now after this event there will be on ifs or buts about the Mystery of God because all will see that God is and who He is. Everyone will know from that moment on, there will be no Mystery left. As for the darkening of the sky this is described as happening beforehand on the sounding of the forth trumpet:


Revelation8:

12 Then the fourth angel sounded: And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened. A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night.

So i believe the rapture will happen before the battle of Armageddon, Just before the battle of Armageddon

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Then comes Judgement Day, which the holy saints( I gussing these are the 144,000) and Jesus Christ will Judge the World / In connection:

I do not believe the 144,000 are saints the scripture identifies them as being made up of 12 batches of 12,000 decendants of the twelve tribes of isreal. to me they are the reminant that will be preserved throught the Day of The Lord that day we call the day of the Messiahs return.

The Day of The Lord is detailed in the Prophesy delivered to Zachariah:

Zechariah 14

1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.


3Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

5Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.


Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.


6It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
7It shall be one day
Which is known to the LORD--
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.


From this I can only believe that a remnant of those in Jerusalem and Israel will be saved from destruction. I also believe that that remnant talked of in the book of Revelation the 144000 made up of 12,000 from every tribe of Israel make up that remnant.

Revelation 14

The 144,000
1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.

Joel 2:32
And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the LORD has said, Among the remnant whom the LORD calls.

Isaiah 37:31,32
And the remnant who have escaped of the house of Judah Shall again take root downward, And bear fruit upward. For out of Jerusalem shall go a remnant, And those who escape from Mount Zion. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this.


This is why witnessing to the Jews is so important for those who have been blessed with the wisdom to do so. For we know that acceptance of the Messiah is salvation. How much chance do they have if they reject their Messiah? Not much it seems.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days