Questioning ((**HELP**))

[<3ilyJesus<3]

Okay, so this Jehovah's Witness came over last week and he said some things that I didn't agree with at first. But I have been thinking about what he said a lot this week, and I just need some help. (1) He Said that he doesn't believe in the Trinity. He said it was made up. Now, I'm a really strong Christian teenager and I have always been taught that the Trinity is true. Am I being lied to? Is God not really three persons in one? (2) He thinks that Good People get to spend eternity on the new earth and the 144,000 'chosen' people get to go to heaven. Am I not going to heaven, even if I am saved and living for Jesus? Am I just going to be here on Earth for eternity?? (3) He said that Jesus was just an angel. And that goes back to the trinity thing. Surely, he wasn't an angel right? I don't question that God is real and that Jesus was God's son, but I just need help in these areas. I prayed about it and I have no idea what to think. Thanks.

 

[Boanerges]

First (in my opinion) let me say that if you are not a deep study in the Word of God and rooted and grounded in His truth you would should not place yourself in this situation. Jehovah's Un-Witnesses are nicknamed "scripture twisters" and are schooled specifically on tripping up and converting those young and/or unsure in their faith.
Their "bible" was translated with liitle more than a Strong's Concordance and no apparent knowledge of the original Greek and Hebrew languages. This resulted in many errors (and in fact they continue to re-write that abomination) . Once you mix man's error into God's truth all you have left is at best confusion and at worst complete lies. As I was told by a high ranking J W official "we translated that scripture that way so no one would be confused about it's meaning" which is to say they re-translated it to line up with their doctrine regardless of the original text.
If one has 50 scriptures (an arbitrary number) that say Jesus was a man and 10 (another arbitrary number) that say He is God is He man or God? The correct answer would be both; He is Emmanuel or God with us and the Word became flesh. What they did was simply go with one set of attributes while ignoring the other which of course is a corruption of the Word of God and again, confusion at best.
Are they well meaning? yes
Are they dedicated? yes
Do they have a true Word of God to preach and learn from? no

Okay, so this Jehovah's Witness came over last week and he said some things that I didn't agree with at first. But I have been thinking about what he said a lot this week, and I just need some help. (1) He Said that he doesn't believe in the Trinity. He said it was made up. Now, I'm a really strong Christian teenager and I have always been taught that the Trinity is true. Am I being lied to? Is God not really three persons in one?
The word trinity does not appear in scripture but the the evidence of Him is from Genesis to Revelations.
"Let us make man in our own image" , He who made us in His own image (tripartite- Father, Son and Holy Ghost) image as (tripartite) spirit, soul and body and on. This is indeed a detailed study and is covered thoughly in other threads here.
(2) He thinks that Good People get to spend eternity on the new earth and the 144,000 'chosen' people get to go to heaven.
In the Book of Revelations these are plainly Jewish folks and not J- U-WI so on that basis no JUW's would ever get to heaven.
Am I not going to heaven, even if I am saved and living for Jesus?
Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father in heaven. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord so if we die now we go to heaven. If we are here at His return He remakes the heavens and the earth and earth becomes heaven itself as heaven is the very presence and throne of God so the point is mute.
Am I just going to be here on Earth for eternity?? (3) He said that Jesus was just an angel.
Jesus could only be an angel in the same context that you or I could as the word basically translates Messenger.
And that goes back to the trinity thing. Surely, he wasn't an angel right? I don't question that God is real and that Jesus was God's son, but I just need help in these areas. I prayed about it and I have no idea what to think. Thanks.

In the origianl Greek of the New Testament the Father calls the Son Ho' Theos or "Most high God" in the following scripture:
Heb 1:8 ButG1161 untoG4314 theG3588 SonG5207 he saith, ThyG4675 throne,G2362 O God,G2316 is for ever and ever:G1519 G165 G165 a sceptreG4464 of righteousnessG2118 is theG3588 sceptreG4464 of thyG4675 kingdom.G932

In the original Hebrew of the Old Testament Jesus is prophesied as the Everlasting Father:
Isa 9:6 ForH3588 unto us a childH3206 is born,H3205 unto us a sonH1121 is given:H5414 and the governmentH4951 shall be uponH5921 his shoulder:H7926 and his nameH8034 shall beH1961 calledH7121 Wonderful,H6382 Counsellor,H3289 The mightyH1368 God,H410 The everlastingH5703 Father,H1 The PrinceH8269 of Peace.H7965
While you could debate the nuances of scripture with these folks almost endlessly in the end you need to understand your own faith in Christ. He was before all and Christ Himself created all:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

[Boanerges]

Tell him you will take hi literature if he takes yours. Of he agrees give him this:

"Letter to a Jehovah's Witness" Part 1
reprinted from the Moody Monthly magazine, March 1973
(Copyright Moody Bible Institute of Chicago)
written by Roy B. Zuck
Academic Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Dallas, Texas
Share this with him when he comes knocking.
____________________________________________
by ROY B. ZUCK
____________________________________________
Dear Jehovah's Witness:
That you very much for stopping by to distribute your literature. In our day of godless living, many people, no
doubt, slam their door. But I'm glad you came by. I am interested in spiritual things and in sharing Bible truths
with others.
May I share with you some important matters regarding the Bible? By having them in writing, you can consider
them carefully and, I trust, objectively.
Let me say, first, that there are several things about Jehovah's Witnesses that I admire. Your zeal for and
involvement in your organization are unequaled by most other religious groups. Also your interest in the Bible
is commendable. I assume that you, like most Jehovah's Witnesses, spend several hours every week studying
the Bible.
Also you and I have several things in common. I share your concern about religious apostasy in much of
Christendom, your teaching against evolution, and you belief in the coming Battle of Armageddon when God
will destroy the forces of Satan and then establish on earth His kingdom in which there will be universal peace
and righteousness.
Rather than discuss many different teachings, I would like to suggest that we consider what is perhaps the most
important issue, namely, the person of Christ.
You and I both believe that Jesus Christ was a perfect man, and that He is a person distinct from God the Father.
However, you teach that before His earthly life, Christ was a spirit creature, Michael the Archangel, who was
created by God and became the Messiah at His baptism. According to the well known Jehovah's Witness
publication Let God be True (p. 33), Jesus is a "mighty one, although not as almighty as Jehovah God is".
According to John 1:1 in your Bible, The New World Translation, Christ is "a god" but not "the God". In other

 

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words, you teach that Jesus "was and is and always will be beneath Jehovah" and that "Christ and God are no
co-equal" (The Watch Tower, April 15, 1957).
Does the Bible substantiate these statements, or does it teach that Christ is God? This is an extremely important
question.
I would like to raise the following points for you to consider prayerfully.
1. Several Bible verses specifically affirm the deity of Christ. In Matthew 1:23, Christ is called
"Immanuel", which means "God with us". When Thomas touched the wounds of the risen Lord, he
exclaimed, "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28). There is no basis whatsoever for saying, as some
Jehovah Witnesses say, that Thomas was referring to Christ when he said "my Lord" but was referring
to God the Father when he said "my God". Instead Thomas called Christ both his Lord and his God and
Christ did not correct him!
Colossians 2:9 clearly confirms the deity of Christ, when it states that in Him "all the fullness of the
divine quality dwells bodily" (New World Translation).
"JESUS IS LORD"
Stephen called Jesus "Lord" (Acts 7:59, 60), and we are to confess Jesus as Lord (Rom. 10:9; 1 Cor. 12:3).
"Lord" in these verses is Kurios, which is the Greek word for Jehovah in the Greek version of the Old
Testament. Is it not rather evident from this that Christ the Lord (Kurios) is Jehovah God?
2. Several verses show that the Christ of the New Testament is the Jehovah of the Old Testament. For
example, Isaiah wrote about Jehovah in Isaiah 6:1-10, and John in John 12:31-42 says that Isaiah saw
Jesus' glory and spoke of Him.
In Exodus 34:14 it is clear that we are to worship no one but Jehovah. But in Hebrews 1:6 the angels
worship Christ. In Isaiah 44:6 Jehovah is called the first and the last, but in Revelation 22:13 Christ is
the first and the last. Since there cannot be two firsts and two lasts, is it not clear that Jehovah and Christ
must both be God? This reveals that Jehovah is used not only of God the Father, but also of God the
Son. Though they are distinct persons they are each called "Jehovah" because they each possess deity.
3. Attributes of Christ show that He is God. Jesus Christ knows all things (John 1:48; 2:25; 6:64; 16:30;
21:17). He is eternal (Mic. 5:2), all powerful (Matt. 28:18; Heb 1:3), sinless (John 8:46), and unchanging

 

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(Heb 13:8). Since only God possesses these attributes, this indicates that Christ possesses deity.
4. Certain works of Christ show that He is God. Jesus Christ has the power to forgive sins (Mark 2:5-7;
Eph 1:7), control nature (Matt. 8:26), give eternal life (John 10:28; 17:2), and judge the world (John
5:22, 27). Since only God can do these things, does it not follow that Christ is God?
5. Christ received worship. Christ is worshipped by the angels (Heb. 1:6) and by man (Matt.14:33), and yet
only Jehovah is to be worshipped (Exod.34:14). Christ Himself said that worship is due to God alone
(Matt.4:10), and yet He accepted worship. If Christ in His pre-existent state were the archangel Michael,
how could He have received worship, since angels are not allowed to receive worship (Rev.19:10; 22:8,
9)? If Christ were not God, then worship of Him would be idolatrous.
What about John 1:1? You say, "Christ the Word is 'a god' according to John 1:1 in the Jehovah's Witnesses'
New World Translation." Your translators say the small "g" is required because the Greek word for God (theos)
is not preceded by a definite article, "the" (ho).
"WHAT THE GREEK REALLY SAYS"
You are correct in saying that in John 1:1 the Greek word for God is not preceded by a definite article. However
good Greek scholarship agrees that this does not mean the word should be translated "god" with a small "g".
The definite article is omitted because of a somewhat technical rule of Greek grammar. A definite predicate
nominative which precedes a verb does not have the Greek article. The order of the Greek words in the last
clause of John 1:1 is "God was the Word" (theos en ho logos). The subject of the sentence is "the Word", the
verb is "was", and the predicate nominative is "God". Usually the predicate nominative follows the verb, but in
this case it precedes it; and since it precedes the verb no article is necessary.
When a Greek writer wanted to stress the quality of a person or thing which was in the predicate nominative
case, he would put it before the verb rather than after it. This is what John did to stress the fact that the Word
(Christ) possesses the qualities of Godhood. This fundamental principle of Greek grammar thus supports the
deity of Christ and gives no support whatsoever to the translation, "The Word was a god". The intent of John
could be rendered in English, "The Word was fully God".
May I point out, too, that even your New World Translation does not always follow it's "no article - small 'g'"
rule. For example, in John 1:6, 12, 13, the word "God" does not have the article in the Greek, but it does have a
capital "G" in the New World Translation. It is correct to use the capital in those verses but it is inconsistent
with the New World Translation of John 1:1.
You might also be interested in noting that in John 13:3 the word "God" occurs twice, each time with a capital
"G". But in the Greek the first occurrence of the word does not have the definite article and the second
occurrence does. Since both obviously refer to the same person - God the Father - it would again be wrong to
assume that the alleged "no article - small 'g'" rule has any validity in Greek grammar.
Another observation is that without the article, theos signifies divine essence, while with the article theos
suggests divine personality (see Dana and Mantley, A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, p. 139).
Also theos is a definite noun and therefore cannot have the indefinite article "a".
It is important to keep in mind that when John 1:1 states that "the Word was God", it does not mean Jesus is
God the Father, nor "Jesus is the Trinity". The Jehovah's Witnesses' booklet, "The Word", Who is He?
According to John (p.6), erroneously tries to suggest that this is what non-Jehovah's Witnesses mean by their
translation, "the Word was God". But this is not the case at all! As already shown, this clause stresses the divine
quality of the Word. John is telling us that in the beginning the Word existed, was with God the Father and
possesses full deity.
You should know to that there are verses clearly referring to Christ in which the word "God" does have the
definite article ("the"), thus showing that Jesus is "the God", that is, Jehovah. (Matthew 1:23, for example,
which states that Jesus is Immanuel, in the Greek is rendered "with us is the God". Jesus is therefore Jehovah
God.
You say that Christ is "a god" according to the New World Translation of John 1:1 - one who was created by
Jehovah. How could Christ be "a god" when in Isaiah 43.10 Jehovah say that there is no god before Him or after
Him? No god would ever be created by Jehovah because, as He stated, "Before me there was no god formed,
and after me there continued to be none" (New World Translation) .
John 1:1 states that the Word (Christ) was with God. And yet in Deuteronomy 32:39 Jehovah states, "There is
no god with Me". If Christ is not God but "a god", then Deuteronomy 32:39 is contradicted.
ISAIAH AND COLOSSIANS
I'm sure you are aware that Isaiah 9:6 calls Jesus Christ the "mighty God". No doubt you, like other Jehovah's
Witnesses, have a ready answer for this verse. You explain that Christ is "the mighty god" but not "the
almighty". You say that Christ is the mighty, never the almighty, and that Jehovah is the almighty God, never
the mighty. However, Jeremiah 32:18 shows that Jehovah is the mighty One. Therefore, since Christ is the
mighty God (Isa.9:6) and Jehovah is the mighty God (Jer.32:18), they are both God. They both possess full
deity. What about Colossians 1:15-17? Jehovah's Witnesses refer to this passage to support their teaching that
Christ was created by Jehovah (e.g., Let God Be True, p. 35). This is based primarily on the words, "the
firstborn of all creation", in verse 15.
However, if this verse were teaching that Jesus Christ is the first created being made by Jehovah, the word
"first-created" would have been used of Christ, not the word "firstborn". These are two different words in the
Greek, with two different meanings. "First-created" is protoktistos, and "firstborn" is prototokos. Colossians
1:15 does not use the word protoktistos, "first-created". Instead it uses prototokos. The latter word means an
heir, a begotten one, the first in rank. The teaching of Colossians 1:15, then, is that Christ is first in rank above
all creation; He is the heir of all things. He is prior to all creation and superior over it as the Lord.
Your New World Translation adds the word "other" four times in Colossians 1:15-17, so that the passage states
that Christ created "all other things", that is, everything except Himself. However, there is no basis for adding
the word "other". It does not occur in the Greek manuscripts. The translators of the New World Translation
admit this by putting the word "other" in brackets. Obviously this is done in order to comply with the
assumption that firstborn means first-created. But, as we've seen, this is not the meaning of firstborn, and
therefore it is wrong to add the word "other". There is no verse in the entire Bible that states that Christ was
created by Jehovah!
Some might raise a question about Revelation 3:14. This passage wrongly translated in the New World
Translation, "the beginning of the creation of God" should be rendered "the source (or origin) of God's
creation". The Greek word for source or origin is arche. This is consistent with the statements in Colossians
1:16 and John 1:3 that all things were made by or had their origin or source in Jesus Christ. Since all things
were made by Christ (John 1:1) and all things were made by Jehovah (Heb.3:4), both persons possessing this
omnipotent creative power are God with full deity.
PHILLIPIANS
What about Phillipians 2:6? The New World Translation suggests that Christ was not equal with God and did
not even want to be: "Although he was existing in God's form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that
he should be equal with God". This is a poor translation of the Greek. The Phillips Version gives a much better
rendering of the Greek: "He, who had always been God by nature, did not cling to His prerogatives as God's
equal". The New American Standard Version renders it: "Who, although He existed in

 

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the form of God, did not
consider equality with God a thing to be grasped". The Living Bible puts the meaning in these words: "Who,
though He was God, did not demand and cling to His rights as God".
It is important to remember that Phillipians 2:5-8 is discussing the incarnation of Christ, His act of leaving
heaven's glory and coming to the earth. By stating that He did not cling to His prerogatives and rights as God,
Phillipians 2.5 is saying that He willingly came to the earth. Also, it is important not to overlook the first part of
the verse: "He existed in the form of God". The word "form" means essential attributes. Therefore since Christ
was in the form of God, that is, possessing the attributes of deity, it is wrong to suggest that He did not want to
be equal with God. He already was - and is - God! The view that His being equal with God was something that
He had to grasp for is excluded by the fact that He already existed in the form of God.
What about John 10:30? I assume that you, like other Jehovah's Witnesses, believe that this verse, "I and the
Father are one", means that Christ was one with God the Father in purpose and not in nature and essence.
However, if that were all Christ was saying, why did the Jews want to stone Him? They themselves thought His
purpose was the same as God's. Verse 33 of John 10 explains that they wanted to stone Him because of
blasphemy, because He claimed to be God! The New World Translation uses the words "a god", but as
explained earlier, theos is a definite noun and without the article denotes divine essence. As John 5:18 reveals,
the fact that Jesus called God His Father meant to the Jews that He was making Himself "equal with God".
I have spent much time discussing the deity of Christ because this is the central point of the Scriptures. God
Himself came to save men from their sins. The Bible teaches we are to turn to Christ as Jehovah God for
salvation. Pardon from sin comes by (1) recognizing that you are a sinner in need of God's grace (Rom.3:10, 23;
Jer.17:9; Eccles.7:20; Eph.2:1, 2; 1 John 1:8); (2) realizing that Jesus Christ came to earth for the explicit
purpose of dying as a substitute for you (Isa.53:6; 1 Pet.2:24; 3:18), bearing the penalty of your sins Himself;
and (3) receiving Jesus Christ into your heart as your Saviour (Acts 16:30, 31; John 1:12; 3:16, 36; 5:24; 6:47;
Acts 4:12; Rom.10:13).
Christ came to do more than just atone for Adam's sin and to restore "perfect human life with it's rights and
earthly prospects" (Let God Be True, p. 96). He came to forgive sins (Eph.1:7), to give eternal life (John 10:28;
17:2), to justify us (declare us righteous) by His grace (Rom.3:24), to die for our sins (1 Pet.2:24; 3:18;
Rom.5:6, 8), to reconcile us to Himself (remove the enmity between man and God) (Rom.5:10), to redeem
(ransom or purchase) us from the penalty and power of sin (Gal.4:4, 5; Eph 1:7), and to make us Children of
God (John 1:12).
Forgiveness of sins does not come by trying to pass the test Adam failed or to maintain "integrity" (as the
August 15, 1956 issue of the Watch Tower suggests). By attempting to keep integrity or by works of the law,
"no flesh will be declared righteous before Him" (Rom.3:20, New World Translation).
How then can a sinful man appear righteous in the sight of God? The Scriptures say it "is as a free gift that they
are being declared righteous by his undeserved kindness through the release of the ransom paid by Jesus Christ.
God set him forth as an offering for propitiation through faith in his blood" (Rom.3:24-25, New World
Translation). On the basis of Christ's atonement we can be pardoned from all our sin and declared righteous in
Christ. "By means of him (Christ) we have the release by ransom through the blood of that one, yes, the
forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of undeserved kindness" (Eph.1:7, New World
Translation).
You can have forgiveness of sins and be perfectly righteous in God's sight by accepting Christ's atonement for
you, by receiving Him as your personal Saviour. Though you are a sinner who has fallen short of God's glory
(Rom.3:23), you can be pardoned of your sins and declared righteous in Christ by placing your faith (trust) in
Him. Millions who have done this through the centuries have experienced a miraculous change of heart and life
as He promised. Will you turn to Him now, asking Him to forgive you of your sins and be your Saviour?

 

[I am loved]

Dont worry you are going to heaven. You were saved by Jesus...if that happend you are ok. Religouns are all so different and sometimes strange. You just got to stick to what your heart tells you.
-I am loved

 

[RJ]

Hold Firm To the Written Word Of God

Okay, so this Jehovah's Witness came over last week and he said some things that I didn't agree with at first. But I have been thinking about what he said a lot this week, and I just need some help. (1) He Said that he doesn't believe in the Trinity. He said it was made up. Now, I'm a really strong Christian teenager and I have always been taught that the Trinity is true. Am I being lied to? Is God not really three persons in one? (2) He thinks that Good People get to spend eternity on the new earth and the 144,000 'chosen' people get to go to heaven. Am I not going to heaven, even if I am saved and living for Jesus? Am I just going to be here on Earth for eternity?? (3) He said that Jesus was just an angel. And that goes back to the trinity thing. Surely, he wasn't an angel right? I don't question that God is real and that Jesus was God's son, but I just need help in these areas. I prayed about it and I have no idea what to think. Thanks.

Let's take these one at a time:
1. Jehovah's Witness
Balder-dash! These people are not living in the truth of the living word of God. I don't take much stock in the Devil. Oh, I believe that He is real because the bible says he is but, I dont think about him too much because I consider him already defeated in my life. But, I could seriously consider that the Jehovah's Witness are in control, to some degree, by satan and his false messages and influence.
2. Trinity
Though the bible doesn't use the word Trinity, a man made word, it does talk exstensively about the three in one. In the begining the word (Jesus Christ) was with God and was God. God talked about"we" in the begining an He wasn't talking about Him and Angels. He was talking about Himself, Jesus Christ and His Spirit that actually breathed life into Adam.
3. Now, I'm a really strong Christian
Now, please don't take this as judgemental but, only as an observation: your strength as a Christian is a bit weak to be potentially swayed but such false teaching. You are probably a strong beliver but lack strenght in the fundemental truth of the word. To your credit, your very questioning these JW statements is proof that you know something is wrong and that God is at work in your life. I tell this to my Sunday school class: there is three things that is more important than your Pastor, going to church, listening to me or anyone else and that is :You, The Bible and The Holy Spirit. Put the first two together often and pray for the Holy Spirit's discernment and God will open up a whole new level of truth to you.
4. 144,000 'chosen' people
Rediculous and shamefull, no further comment!
5. Am I not going to heaven, even if I am saved and living for Jesus?
Jesus said (parahrasing): "You are saved (going to heaven) through faith (belief) in grace and not of your own works". Grace here is God's Gospel that St. Paul preached and that gospel was the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Death
Jesus died for the sins of the world (everyone) reconciling man unto God, delivering forgivenes to all and God said that He would look at our sin no more. Every human is born reconciled or forgiven unto God. This is an action by God, there is nothing you can do about it, it is a done deal. Even Athiests were born forgiven.
Burial
God said that this grace of His is free and a gift. He also said that it is a contract or a will with man where He will put Himself In the hearts and minds of men. And, a will is not put in force unless, the one that it is written on dies. Just before Jesus died he looked up and said that it is over! He did not meen His life but He ment his work, He had defeated the devil and at the very millisecond of His death, God's last and final contract (will with man) was put in force. Jesus burial was proof of this death and His eventual resurrection sealed this contract for ever.
Resurrection
Now this is where the "rubber meets the road"! If your JW friends do not hold firm to this, then you wll be in heaven long before they do!
St. Paul said if you believe in all of this gospel but you can't come to grips with the resurrection, then you are to be pitied above all men.
The cross provides forgiveness and that's all. The resurrected life of Jesus Christ provides salvation and eternal life. Jesus said (paraphrasing): " No one comes unto the Father unless by me". He also said: " I am the vine and you are the branches, If you are in me and I in you, you will bare much fruit, APART FROM ME you can do nothing"!! How do you accomplish these two statements from Jesus? How do you come by Him and be in Him? This is how:
You believe in the Cross, you believe in the Burial and you invite Jesus Christ to live in you, recieve His resurrected life and gain salvation and eternity. THis is the mystery that the bible talks about, the mystery that God lives in you. Jesus Christ said: " I stand at the door and knock and who ever opens the door, I will come is and sup with him". Jesus also said: " If you have seen Me then you have seen the Father". Jesus was the son of God, Jesus was God incarnate (made flesh) and Jesus Christ is your lord and your God.

My friend, if you do not know what to think, keep praying and read your Bible as often as you can and rely on the help of the Holy Spirit to give you understanding. PM me anytime for any help but remember, It is You, your Bible and the Holy Spirit that is most important!