Romans chapter 8 verser 28 to 30

[simpleman]

Was wondering what these verses mean to you folks?

 

[jjkirk]

Rom 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to {His} purpose.
Rom 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined {to become} conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
Rom 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.(NASB)

Simpleman,

These verses are speaking about that those who love God with all their heart soul and mind; no matter what happens in their life no matter how bad it may seem there is a purpose and God will make it work out for the best for them according to His purpose. Sometimes it is hard for us to see this but it is true. God will take any and all situations we come across work to the best purpose for those of us who put all our trust in Him.

If we trust Him with all we have and all we are, He will make our life work out for us to salvation through Christ Jesus our Lord. This is what it (life) is all about, also it is what the Bible is about as well.

Peace be with you,
John.

 

[crossway]

These verses are especially dear to me because they are a proof text that God is in control of all situations which happen in this world. He has chosen me to be His child (an action the Bible calls adoption) and placed me in the kingdom of His Son. Everything that occurs on this earth is for the benefit of building the body of Christ and therefore will ultimately be to my benefit since He has made me a part of that glorious body.

 

[sail2awe]

predestined : heavy question, heavy answer:


Don't lose sight of the fact that Genesis does not go back to the beginning, as God has no beginning and no end. We are only given a slice of God’s time along His plan to be all in all [1Co 15:24]. However, it is not 'In the beginning'… the article “the” was added. It is just “In beginning”… This is not speaking of time, but of movement. "Beginning" also means "firstfruits", as in Jer 2:3. and comes from the base word “rosh”, translated “head” in Genesis 3:15. So, in this beginning is the head and principal of all that which is to follow, and all rest upon this, in the concept of time, where Christ is the head and chief principal reality, which of all things are based and consist.

Christ was the first of all:
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. [Almighty means reigneth]
In Hebrew they add dots to the letters instead of vowel, So, what Christ does, is He comes along and fills in all the vowels for us. Omega is a long “o”, omica is a short “o” in the Greek. Micro, and macro. See it? Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

So in Genesis we have the person Christ, not just a calendar going back to whenever this is speaking of, but whatever this word may mean we can know that in Christ it is done:
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.

It is done has to do with the results; when He said it is finished, He was speaking of the redemption.

Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

As God does not speak to us for just any reason at all, we can know that there must be some reason for this repetition. I Co 15 belongs to a realm of which we know nothing at all.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

So He stepped out of His free sphere & humbled Himself with creation, & He also keeps it going. The Image of God the Christ, the only part of God we will ever see. In the old creation, He is the first born, and in this position He is the first born from the dead. So that He may have the preeminence. The beginning, principalities, first fruit. These are all the same words. V 16 “by” Him & “in” Him, v17 “thru” Him, for “by” is not the same word as in v 16. So all things are by, in, and thru Him.

In John 1 Life belongs to God only. Even satan is dependent upon Him to hold the creation in its orbits. So He emptied Himself and the Word was made flesh; He stoops down and tabernacles among us, and we beheld His Glory. 3 times He says this: 1:14, 11:40, 17:24 So, when God makes something new it is different than when we do it. When God does it He always adds, “and the former things are passed away”.

Thruout, 'an enemy has done this' -
So in creation something went wrong that cannot go wrong thru redemption. In Genesis 1 we already look towards a new beginning. He made it this way so He could set it aside. [see 'rent' and 'fulness' of Ma9:16] So Christ knew what He had to do when the 'rent', or the rebellion occurred. He had to make all things new. He had to make a patch as it were. And He would use the previously created materials to repair theis 'rent' with, He would not create new materials.

Types, shadows, tabernacles, passover, feasts, fasts, laws, prophets, are all just temporary building blocks, & will be taken away. This world was constructed to pass away. We are just visiting here as ambassadors, until that was rent is made new. So, this limited Heaven in Gen 1 will be folded up and done away with. Now we need to look at the word “create”. It does not say He created everything out of the base elements, but that He created it out of nothing.

“Create” comes from a word that means to cut, to fashion [barra], to create. Used 5 times of man in Gen, and 49 times [7X7] with action of God. So create doesn’t mean the 'stuff' it is made from. That 'stuff', was created before Gen 1:2. Is. 43 tells us He created Israel as a nation; so the stuff was already there by the time the word is used. Barra is also “sonship” in the Greek. The idea is resident in the word Cosmos, which is used for the word “world” and “age”. This cosmos was made by Him and was spoiled by sin. The verb is adorn, in the NT, we have garnish, goodly stones.

We now know that the “beginning” movement in verse Genesis 1:1, was some time prior to verse 2 and the six day re-CONSTRUCTION; and that the six days were preparation for the flesh, of which God would tabernacle among men. We have three days of preparation, and three days which bring forth fruit, called life. Day one He brings “light”, and day two we have the firmament and the waters, and day three we have earth and vegetation. Day four we have “lights”, not light, but “lights”, which is a compound word, meaning light holders; a candle, a torch, a sun or a moon. Then we have firmament and water in the fifth day , and cattle and so forth, till the sixth day where we have mankind. And finally, we have the day of rest, which is a foreshadow of a timetable for this age.

We must now consider that we are told Christ has entered into heaven, and also that He has raised far above all heavens, and that He passed thru the heavens. Obviously, God has distinguished one heaven from another. In the OT, most of the references to heaven have no reference to Genesis 1 verse 1, but reference this limited heaven, which is destined to pass away. So in this time, God has limited this heaven , for His purpose in dealing with this great spiritual foe.

When God “called” the firmament “heaven”, He has assigned a name which reflects a larger truth, that this heaven is under the real heaven, separate from the true reality. So, this heaven, this firmament is the limited one which is mostly spoken of in the OT. The word “firmament” has been given the word expanse, or expansion.

Exo 39:3 And they did beat the gold into thin plates, and cut it into wires, to work it in the blue, and in the purple, and in the scarlet, and in the fine linen, with cunning work.

My point here is, between Gen 1:1+2, a rebellion occurred, and there were many created beings [and angels are called men] who can fulfill the qualification of the 'let us' of Genesis 1:26.

1Jo 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1Jo 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

The 'chief' 'principal' 'head', did not ask 'us' to do any thing that He Himself did not also purpose to do, which was to come here by the water and the blood of the flesh. It is the angels who 'left their first estate' without coming here thru the 'water and blood' who are in 'chains of darkness; to be reserved unto judgment. And the place where they entered, is called 'the breach of waters'.
So, when we are told that God hated Esauu but loved Jacob from before they were in the womb, what did they do before they come thru the water and the blood of a woman? We are told in Rev 12 that a full 1/3 of the angels followed satan during the rebellion. I mean, think about it, how are flesh people supposed to help redeem a bunch of fallen angels? there must be something more to this story than what we learn in man's churches, that's why God gave us this letter, so He could reveal all things by bringing us into His word, His assembly of called out ones - His church, if you will. Predestined - He foreknew.

 

[Maureen]

I also have a particular verse of scripture so thought
put it in here, it's not that it is dear although all scripture is
but this one I find hard to grasp, I asked a Minister about
it ages ago, he said to leave it with him and when I next saw
him he said he couldn't give me an answer to it so here you
try, please,and God will give the insight
This is taken from the New Living Translation
1 John 5 V 16/17. If you see a Christian brother or sister sinning in a
way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will
give that person life. But there is a sin that leads to death, and
I am not saying you should pray for those who commit it. Every wrong
is sin, but not all leads to death.
So what sin is it that does not lead to death as stated?
May God give you the enabling to respond in his name. Amen

 

[Maureen]

A 'Dear' Verse

The one I think touches my heart strings is:-
1 John 5 V14 NLT
And we can be confident that he will listen to us whenever
we ask him for anything in line with his will.
Amen

 

[jjkirk]

1 John 5:16-17

Maureen,

That is a very good question. There seems to be debate about this. I looked up in my study bibles, and they speak about it a little. The sin that does lead to death, seems to be refering to the sin against the Holy Spirit which there is no forgiveness, so in effect other sins are forgivable. It does seem odd though. It may have to do with with Christians they do not willingly set out to sin, and when they do they run back to God for forgiveness, so the ones who blaspheme the Spirit have turned their backs on God by denying Him and The Messiah who came in the flesh. Like in my study notes it says it is referring to the agnostics who deny the deity and sonship of Christ. They also refuse the guidance of the Holy Spirit to repent of their sins thereore they are spiritually dead, and condemned already. Like it says in John Chpt 3 that they who do not believe are dead already.
Here: John 3:18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (NASB)

Hope this helps.

Peace be with you,
John.

 

[sail2awe]

There is a sin unto death, the qualification is to be delivered up to the synagogue [of satan], and not allow the Holy Spirit to speak thru your mouth. It is in regards to end time events when satan is here defacto:

Luk 12:10AndwhosoevershallspeakawordagainsttheSonofman,itshallbeforgivenhim:butuntohim that blasphemethagainsttheHolyGhostitshallnotbeforgiven.

Luk 12:11Andwhentheybringyouuntothesynagogues,anduntomagistrates,andpowers,take ye no thoughthoworwhat thingyeshallanswer,orwhatyeshallsay:

Luk 12:12FortheHolyGhostshallteachyouinthesamehourwhatyeoughttosay.



2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.





There it is. The good news. Sin is not imputed. There is no place of torment in the hereafter. This is not a liscense to sin:


HHeb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

HHeb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. [this is speaking of the lake of fire, which, for God's children, means a blotting out of the book of life, and the purging of all uncleaness, loss of reward, but not loss of eternal life. Paul writes that he didn't know if he had attained, so he continued to touch the mark that he might attain the prize of the high calling of God, i.e.; the higher reward, the exanastasia, or out ressurection, which is more than the one the non overcomers attain]

 

[It Is Him7]

to me, it means that everything happens for a reason with God. of course, you must not blame God for things that happen, because they just happen sometimes, that is why there is sin.

 

[Maureen]

Thank you all sincerely for your insight
it does make sence that sinning against the Holy
Spirit there isn't any forgiveness.
I heard it put by Joyce Meyers that if we 'greive'
over sins or sin committed that the Lord will
gracefully forgive us, as long as we
are sincere, that is not to say we have a
licience to commit sin, I'm sure you understand.
Thank God for his help and wisdom to give us answers.
Amen